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MONEY!

FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
The say money is the root of all evil but I want to suggest that it may also be the root of all baseball (well almost). The purpose of this post is to bring to light the fact that money plays an important part in our sons’ baseball. It is seldom talked about for obvious reasons but it has to be a major consideration of MANY parents and players. I first realized money would be a factor when I decided to purchase my then nine year old son the "best glove I could find". It was hard to justify spending the $208.00 but I did it anyway. Since he lost it after a few months and I replaced it with a $40 dollar model it obviously wasn’t crucial for his success.
I’m not suggesting that it takes a lot of money to “make” a ball player but only suggesting that you (the parents) will be faced with MANY decisions associated with his baseball and money will frequently come up and ultimately be the major consideration. You need to be prepared to consider $$$$ and what you are going to do. Equipment purchase including bats and gloves and don’t forget those high dollar sunglasses, private lesson, travel ball, hotel rooms, travel expenses and even the type of automobile you buy. Some will change jobs and sell their home just to accommodate a high school transfer. Showcases and camps and the expense associated with those can be staggering. While I frown on recruiting services I know there are people that spend money on them. Let’s face it the college choice can even boil down to dollars in the scholarship amount offered. If you son gets drafted the dollar amount is one indicator of faith the club has in your son. Did your son and the family discuss how much money it would take for him to forgo college and sign out of high school? What about signing after his junior year of college? If he turns pro and gets little or no signing bonus how will he support himself? Are mom and dad prepared to subsidize his salary and if so for how long? What about a job in the off season? Should he work to pay his rent or should he work at being a better ballplayer? Lots of “dollar questions” down the road…… Are you ready?
Fungo
Last edited {1}
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55mom55mom1,000+ posts
I agree with your post in a much broader sense. Many parents are teaching their children the wrong lessons because the parents have stars in their eyes. Doesn't matter what sport, or career. Make money, make money is the mantra. I have to disagree on a technicality, the love of money (or greed) is the root of all evil.

Whatever happened to live a full and productive life? Lots of Money optional.

Son is a rising freshman. He has 4 years of hard work ahead of him. While people are very complimentary of his performance, we try to keep him, and us, grounded. What we have had our sons do is make short term and long term goals. When one long term goal is met, they then detail the next long term goal with short term ones. imo, that keeps the eye on the prize, while acknowledging the realities of achieving the goal.

Am I ready? Heck no! but I'm working on it.
StyleMismatchStyleMismatch100+ posts
quote:
Doesn't matter what sport, or career. Make money, make money is the mantra.


That's a very accurate observation.

My kids (like most I suspect) have from time to time asked how much money they can make if they choose a certain career path. I've always preached to them not to be so concerned about how much money they can make when they decide on a career but to rather look at several factors such as: will you be able to stay employed? will your career be of benefit to society in some way? will you truly enjoy what you will be doing? I tell them that ideally they should wake up every morning and feel like "I WANT to go to the office/job today" - if you truly enjoy what you're doing then you'll never have to work a day in your life. They've both got a ways to go before it's set in stone, but both kids seem to be listening, daughter aspires to be an architect and son intends to go to veterinary school after finishing his degree (and playing college ball).

Good points by fungo on what it may take to support a son's baseball career, hadn't really thought about the need to subsidize a son for a few more years after he gets drafted.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Money truly is becoming a major factor in both baseball and softball. My daughter just turned 14. However, it seems like it has cost a fortune for her to play and we don't play in any "elite" program. One example would be that we sent her to a "showcase" where college coaches would be speaking and coaching this past winter. Yes they were there and yes they all gave a speech. Beyond that, they never left their coffee cups to go do one thing. My daughter along with dozens of others were supposed to get to hit, field and pitch in front of these college coaches. Well, they took the $$$ and ran. When it came for the pitchers to pitch, neither the college coaches nor the "Showcase Director" were in the building. They took off. $120 wasted. Personally, I demanded a refund and caused a big stink since. I am pretty well known in the St. Louis area and so, we received some money back. Some expenses you can now expect:

  • Team Fees - (Ours $250 to start and help covering any tournament.)
  • $5 to get into any tournament at the gate per parent.
  • Equipment to include sliding pads, gloves (we also buy the best gloves, batting gloves (Price them sometime!), shoes (My daughter pitches so she goes through shoes fast.), socks (reference shoes), food at a tournament (Saturday we played our first game at 8:00 a.m. and last game at 8:00 p.m.), hotel rooms, ...
  • Showcases (find anyone around from under a $100)
  • Camps (We start a 3 day softball camp on Wednesday at another university - $250 for 3 days.)(We attended 2 during the winter at $200 each)
  • gas to attend all of these events.


Well, I could go on and on. We do it because our girls is addicted to fastpitch softball and loves to play. She plays for 2 teams. WE are NOT DEPENDENT upon a college scholarship but it would be nice. No we don't have money. We have one child and do all of this because she loves the game. If she ever says she's done, we're done.
T Texan1,000+ posts
Since 99.9999999% of the youth players will never see a signing bonus, and since baseball only allows 11.7 'ships in NCAA (fewer in D2, none in D3 and 12 in NAIA), and since many schools aren't fully funded anyhow...

I sincerely hope that no one is looking for a monetary return on their investment (perhaps more appropriately labeled expenses) in their son's baseball - whether in terms of a signing bonus or 'ship.

Fungo is correct, the expenses do add up. I spent the money because Texan Son enjoyed baseball and it was something at which he was very good. The latter was important in building confidence which lapped over into the rest of his life.

A side benefit was the joy of watching him come off that field with his eyes sparkling...
Last edited by Texan
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
CoachB25: I think I want to move close to you. The standard team fees just to JOIN a girls fastpitch softball team in the Chicago area is 15 hundred--it does include the uniform, but it does not include the MANDATORY FUND RAISING FEES.

Private lessons in Chicago are 40 bucks a half hour. What is it near St. Louis?

And with softball, (never be absolute, so just about) all of the professional players on the Chicago Bandits have "day jobs". I don't know what the salary to play this year is but last year it was $6000 for the summer.

It may be easy to justify the expense for boys who have the Dream. But knowing what I know now, I have a hard time wanting to spend what is necessary for one year of softball for each of my two girls. But they love it, too.........................

My mantra got even louder for them. Study hard! Get good grades!
Last edited by play baseball
PopTimePopTime500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
One aspect not to forget is that with the huge number of students applying to college every year playing baseball, or any sport can be the difference maker in terms of acceptance to college.

The coach can be a great asset in terms of admission

Agree whole-heartedly. Those of you have seen past posts of mine know that my son got into a pretty selective school, and without baseball and the college coach, it probably wouldn't have happened. His GPA was fine, but his SAT's were borderline. Bottom line was that the coach wanted him on his team.
As far as mom55's comment about sending the wrong message because we as parents "have stars in our eyes". It may be true in some cases, but I'll bet my story is not uncommon either. In our case, it was my son at 7 years old telling me he wanted to be a major leaguer when he grew up and looking up at me saying with a hint of doubt in his voice "I could do that Dad, couldn't I?". My answer right off the bat was "Of course you can." I vowed right then (to myself) that I would do everything I could at every level to help him get to the NEXT level. Did it cost some money along the way? Yes. Did I ever hesitate to spend money on a good baseball opportunity? No. Did I ever spend money that I didn't have in the bank to spend? No. Did it seem the more money I spent to further his baseball knowledge and skill, the harder he worked to try to achieve his goals? YES, and that's what mattered to me. HIS dream. Well, in September he's off to college and I turn his future over to a fine school and an even finer baseball coach. There's nothing more I can do for him baseball-wise, he certainly knows more about the game now than his old man. Will he realize his dream of playing pro ball? Highly doubtful, as in the case of most of us here, but I'm at peace with that, and so is he. It's been a fun ride, and we still have four more years of it!
Sorry to blather on. Just a belated Father's Day moment.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Excellent post Fungo!

The only advice I can give is that it is a parents perogative to spend their money on their children's activities as they desire. It should be spent because it is something that you enjoy and your children enjoy,and if looked upon as an investment, always remember that we don't always get the return expected on most investments. Smile
JMO
Last edited by TPM
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
it is a parents perogative to spend their money on their children's activities as they desire


Good point TPM and I absolutely agree with you! This is not about attempting to persuade parents to spend or not to spend but to get parents to understand that money will be a factor in their son’s choices. If they understand this maybe they can make a better decison. I have seen parent make some bad decisions (IMO) when it came to baseball and money. Some parents refuse to spend money on showcases or proper equipment while others are trying to “buy” their son’s baseball future. Both situations have allowed money to totally dictate their choices when in fact money should be but one consideration. One would assume that money factored into DK’s recent decision but you also know that was not the ONLY factor in his decision. I also assume that money also factored into his choice of colleges. It seems that money will always come into play --- that's not bad --- just a fact.
Fungo
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Play Baseball, that fee to join a team is just about the same around here. We don't charge much since I do all of the coaching in practice, have had my own equipment for some time, and have the ability to let our team practice year around. That is why there is a waiting list for girls to get on our team. BTW, private lessons can be found from $30/half hour to $100/hour. I don't know what I'm going to charge this fall but I'd guess it'd be closer to the $30. Gotwood, I too had a very special Father's Day. My daughter's team lost in the Championship Game of a 1 day tournament on Saturday. Teams came from as far away as Quincy. My girl was worn out due to heat but had to come in to pitch the championship game. I'm very proud of her efforts. She was the dirtiest girl in the softball complex.


Back to MONEY:

Yes, it is a parent's perogative to spend their money how they want. We chose to spend it on our kid and sports. Had I been a child now, my parents couldn't have come close to spending this amount on me. As more and more players hit the travel ball circuit, the rec departement teams are further watered down. Same in our community, for those that can't afford to spend the money, those kids will play against inferior talent and not develope as rapidly. Yes, I do believe that they can still earn a spot on the high school team. They won't have the same experience against tough competition. JMHO!
hokieonehokieone5,000+ posts
At any price, baseball with my sons has been a bargain. We've gone from T-Ball, through pitching machine league, Little League, AAU, Junior Varsity, Varsity, and now both are playing in college. Both love to talk baseball; one can watch it forever, the other gets bored watching other guys play after not so long. Both will call me on the spur of the moment if one of their fantasy guys has a big night, or if they want to talk about baseball acquaintances and their travels.

We did travel ball, cage in the back yard, a simple soft toss machine, and built a mound. We tried some of the contraptions from Dick Mills in the early days, but truth be known, I watched the videos more than they did.

I still throw BP in the cage, and can warm them up as long as they don't get carried away with their arm strength.

Fortunately we've been able to afford most of the expenses that Mrs. Hokieone knows of, and might've slipped a few past her ("aw, we've had THAT for ages...") along the way, but every single penny was money well spent. At 53, I have more years behind me than ahead of me, but sharing a game you love with those you love is indeed priceless.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
hokie


You are so right---I say if you are going to spend money, and we all do, then spend it on things that give great returns in all shapes and forms

Cannot do better than spending those years with your son as he progresses---win or lose the game you are a parent that is a winner because you were there and cheering

One of the great memories I have of me and my son was driving to a summer league playoff game and as we cross the Hudson River he says to me "this is my game. I own it--you just watch."

Darned if he wasnt correct as they win 3-2 , he drives in the first run, scores the winning run and then makes a running catch in right field to save the game---now for the kicker--- coach wanted to start him in left field and he tells the coach I cannot read the ball well on the field in left field, play me in right---darned if he didn't know what he was talking about---nothing they do anymore surprises me
PH Pat H100+ posts
quote:
In our case, it was my son at 7 years old telling me he wanted to be a major leaguer...


We are in the same boat. According to my son, he's going to play pro ball. There is no other profession for him. My stance is, I will do everything I can financially to help him achieve his goal. But we certainly don't have an unlimited supply of cash. So we do have to spend wisely. One thing we quickly realized is, you don't need to swing a Stealth to hit the ball hard.
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
Pat H: You are right about the spending money wisely part. It's not necessarily about the amount of money you spend, but how you spend it.

We didn't know about this website when our sons were young. We discovered it the summer before our oldest started college. If we could turn the clock back, we would have spent probably the same amount of money, but would have spent it differently. That's why it's nice to know about it now---we learned from our mistakes.
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
the time i spent driving and watching my son's games was priceless. not cheap money wise but that wasn't an issue,we always get by. the love of your kids and the sport they play doesn't always mesh. but when they do it's a ball. it was never about playing for money .........i guess i don't know what it was about? fun maybe? must have been, because that's what we had. i wish we could start over. but if your doing it for a payback financally you may be disappointed. do it cause you both love it,the out come is way better.
BBfamBBfam500+ posts
I absolutely feel the money we spend is investing in his future. And, I expect to see some return on our money. Now, what I mean is that he is learning to be part of something bigger than himself. It's not about him. There is no substitute for hard work and hardwork is what will get you there. He is learning character matters. How to get along with peers, even ones you don't like. He is learning sometimes your ideas are different than someone elses and the "boss" makes final decisions, learn to deal with it. He is learning sometimes life isn't fair. He is also learning about a great game and is having the time of his life. The return I expect is for him to learn to become a great man with good character and morale standards. How toovercome hardships and teach others from that experience, be a leader. Are their cheaper ways? Sure, but why not have fun while your doing it? How do you put a price on that?
S spizzlepop1,000+ posts
It's pretty hard to raise a kid on the cheap these days. I have a sister that spends much more on her daughter’s equestrian pursuits than I ever thought possible, and I know there are lots of posters that have similar examples.
No matter what the extracurricular, it should be common knowledge for any young parents that the road through adolescence will be lined with many expensive venues. Sure you can make 'em get a job and make 'em pay their way, but where is the time for that if they're playing ball? I worked my way through HS, but it didn’t do anything except earn me a little money, plenty of excuses, and a reason to go get trouble. crazy
I’m gonna concur with 20dad and BBFam on the priceless-ness of my investment. Yeah I spent a lot, and I’m not done yet, but I have no regrets. Cool
Last edited by spizzlepop
W Will1,000+ posts
I wonder how much money was spent on May Mantle Koufax etc etc. My dad bought me a glove going into high school I had it for 6 or 7 years had to get a new one as it wore out. honed my skills playing stickball in the street and going to the playground and playing pick up games all day Oh sorry old timer stuff. a 200 dollar glove and a 300 bat and lessons guarantees success. sorry for the sarcasm but humor me I am old.
PH Pat H100+ posts
I actually thought about this thread last night at my son's all-star practice. When he took batting practice my son got the OF'ers running backwards. He was seeing the ball really well and hitting the ball extremely hard. He uses an $80 bat. Some other kids on his team, who are good hitters/ball players, use $200-$300 bats and didn't get it out there nearly as far. Over last winter my son took 3 hitting lessons from a very reputable hitting instructor. The lesson were $65/hr. Together we took the drills his instructor used and worked on our own and continue to do so. Given we only have so much to spend we chose to spend the money on refining his mechanics rather than spending it on an expensive bat. Don't get me wrong, if I could afford to get him the bats the others are using, I would. And kudos to those who can afford to do both. Some kids/parents are very fortunate to be in that position.
Last edited by Pat H
gratefulgrateful1,000+ posts
This thread explains a major reason for the decline in African-Americans playing in the major leagues. Many urban families are struggling to make ends meet, over 60% of these kids live with little or no consistent adult male influence.

The current youth sport culture (ie. increasingly costly) in our country is much more to blame for this trend than anything else.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
This thread explains a major reason for the decline in African-Americans playing in the major leagues.


I disagree. It's because African-Americans children choose not to play baseball. There are LOTS of poor, oppressed, single mom, welfare supported WHITE kids around here that play recreational baseball and virtually no black kids (rich or poor) that play recreational baseball. That dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by PopTime:
quote:
Originally posted by 55mom:
But we shouldn't be like the parent who pointed at her 11yo and announced, "that's my retirement plan". yikes

Disgusting.


That was essentially the idea of my original post, I have heard that SO many times.
Last edited by TPM
gratefulgrateful1,000+ posts
TRhit,

You may think I am off base, but you are simply very wrong.

Fungo mentions that there are poor white kids who play recreational ball. This thread isn't about the costs of recreational ball, it is about the costs of competitive travel ball, etc. There are not many poor kids who get the opportunities to do that year after year.

I am a believer in saying, as someone mentioned, that people make their own choices. Some kids simply don't have the means (finances, network of acquaintances, automobiles, etc.) to make some of those choices.

When we look at those top travel team rosters we are looking at kids whose families have the means to make it happen.......

.........or should I assume that people/organizations who sponsor those elite travel temas, such as your teams, TR, allow kids who don't have the finances to play and travel for free??
Last edited by grateful
gratefulgrateful1,000+ posts
Sorry, TR, but you just made my point for me.

I didn't assume anything!!! I asked a rhetorical question, knowing the answer. Go back and look. I didn't make a statement, I asked a question and knew what the response would be.

You just made my point that if a kid can't afford it, he isn't going to have the opportunities that others have.

Thanks!
WalesWales1,000+ posts
Albeit I'm a player and not a parent, this thread has said pretty much word for word what my parents have said from day one in regards to the costs that are required to play this great game. My parents sacrificed a lot while I was in high school in order to give me the opportunities that I have now.

I recently had a conversation with a fellow poster about this topic in a round about way, more so I guess in regards to the last few posts RE: kids who don't have the finances to play. The costs are very much so beginning to turn the game into a "rich man's game" if you will. I draw comparison to the costs it takes one to play competitive/travel/elite/etc. hockey up here in Canada. Unfortunately there are tons of athlete's (regardless if what the sport may be) who will be given the opportunity to partake in something of that magnitude, but the cost will be the ultimate factor to whether or not they participate.

You can say kids who want it make it happen all you want, but everything has limitations. When a families finances are involved those limitations can really be a blockade in a kids chance towards playing at a higher level then rec sports. Prime example, I know a player who got an invite to a great showcase, the cost was simply out of his families financial realm. He talked it over with the person who gave him the invite. He was told well we can knock 'x' amount off but you still have to pay the balance, plus the transportation and room. When it was all said and done the amount that they knocked off for him was a drop in the bucket compared to the overall cost to attend something like 1,000 rather then 1,200. So kids who want it make it happen, I'd love to see someone make it happen when they could barely afford the cost of the showcase itself and still have enough finances to pay the bills at the end of the month.

But then again I suppose this is where spending your money wisely comes into play. Just my thoughts...
M Michael'sDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by grateful:
When we look at those top travel team rosters we are looking at kids whose families have the means to make it happen.......

.........or should I assume that people/organizations who sponsor those elite travel temas, such as your teams, TR, allow kids who don't have the finances to play and travel for free??


I don't know about other areas of the country but several very good travel teams in North Carolina have sponsors and either do not charge for playing or charge only a very small fee. In many cases that can be covered by fund raising efforts.

If you are good and you want to play, you can find a place.
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