Moving college baseball season

November is better then March - October is better then April - September might be the best month of the year to play...it would allow a longer shutdown period in the winter and still be ready for decent weather...

What would that mean to the Wood Bat college leagues. Most are over or close to done by August, but how willing will a coach be to send a player to a team knowing thet if they getr hurt their is not enough recovery time before the College season starts?

Spring = Baseball.  That's just how it is.

It's a bad winter. It happens along with striking out..

FYI:

Offline someone mentioned a March 1 start date as more sensible and better weather-wise.

this kind of trumps everything!

the only thing i really disagree with here is the term may go down the drain - I think would go down the drain would be more accurate.

Brutal start to this season for sure.

Must be nice to have resources like UNC.  I saw they have moved their "home" series vs UCLA to Orlando to play at UCF!!!

I had an interesting discussion a few weeks ago with a D1 coach.  We all know that money makes the world go round.  He told me he'd had discussions with a contact of his that is in the TV industry.  They discussed the TV potential for summer time games would be unbelievable.  There is zero content during the summer on TV so imagine the possibilities of broadcasting all sorts of games.  Not to mention the revenue it could potentially generate from advertising.

But I do think it would take away from the student experience.  Call me crazy but I think that still matters.  

The fall is a great option.

As for the "going down the drain" comment, I think that is a little bit naive.

Last time I checked a football team plays 6 home games.  6.  I'm confident that SID's and coaches are savvy enough to work around that.  As a matter of fact, in many instance rescheduling wouldn't event be needed.  Imagine how awesome it would be to play a 1pm game on Saturday in front of a lot of fans who will be leaving baseball to go to a 7pm football game!!!

All I know is I had about 10 college games on my calendar for the next 2 weeks that I'm not holding my breath for.

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool 

there is football on TV 6 days week in the fall...the ratings for football make baseball look like Cricket...everyone here is a baseball guy, love the game but there is no growth or future for college baseball in the fall.

Naive is thinking there is.

Knew this would generate a discussion.

Mazey is quoted as saying 31 0f 36/38 coaches asked are "for" moving the season.

I see the points all made,

Spring definitely = baseball

The most feasible idea to me is start later than February, least disruption to current system.

Southeast Missouri moved its series this weekend from Cape Girardeau, MO to Lake Charles, LA. They are playing Illinois State. 

Its just been a tough winter, but all the games will eventually get played/made-up, i'm sure.

Fall College Baseball Season is a terrible idea.  So the CWS will be played in Omaha in December?  Besides the weather, with college FB ending, and bowl season beginning, and the NFL there would be zero interest/TV ratings for the CWS. How about the D3 WS in Appleton WI in December?

Look for it to happen...because of TV.  The conference TV networks will want baseball pushed back later ..so they can have games to televise into late spring and early summer. Content is king and baseball is on the upswing for college TV viewing.  ESPN will continue to goose it too. 

I look for college baseball to push back a few weeks so that the key regular season segments are in April and May with the conference tourney's starting in late May or June.  CWS pushed back to something closer to the 4th of July. 

Picture the flag, college kids, fireworks, the National Anthem and baseball in middle America on the 4th of July.  Who's bringing the Apple pie in from Center field in a Chevy for the home plate meeting?  Made for TV.  I have a tear in my eye now....

Not necessarily. If making up a non-conference game would cost too much money, or stretch pitching staffs during the conference schedule, or have no effect on the team's resume for NCAA seeding, it may not happen.

In an article on this subject, Pitt's coach Joe Jordano was quoted as saying:

“If you told a basketball team you can practice on a regular-sized court three times prior to playing your first game, they would look at you like you have four heads,” Jordano said. “But in baseball, especially northern baseball, that's our reality.”

http://triblive.com/sports/col...-mazey#ixzz3SCidKhWR

I know my son's former team went down to Georgia last week and had not been outside since the fall. This is truly a regional issue that won't get much sympathy from schools located in the warmer regions of the country. It is a Northern problem for the most part... 

Baseball season was pushed back a week, a few years ago and already extends past graduation at many schools. I don't see the season getting pushed back any further.

... in a sport that's dominated by Southern/Western schools.

What would pushing the schedule back so far do for leagues like the Cape. They already start later than most summer leagues. They would lose a large part of there talent pool, if the CWS was pushed back to July 4th. What about the Northwoods, they would probably have to lower the number of games. With fewer dates they would become less profitable. 

D3 schools do not have a national starting day, many of them start in Late January and early February, especially out west. As a result they get through most of the season with 2 starters sometimes 3. When they get to the regionals and CWS they sometimes do not have the pitching depth. Also some of the far west teams finish up their season several weeks before the regionals. That is a lot of time off just scrimmaging and practicing. 

Bishop - no doubt it makes it harder on them.  At the time I am pretty confident that the ACC, SEC, Big 12, Pac 12,  Big 10, NCAA or ESPN don't give a hoot about that.  We are talking about THEM making more money. 

I am certain they do not give a crud about any of those leagues who do nothing for them.  I also have strong doubts they'd lose a lot of sleep worrying about the impact on players. 

Follow the money.  In big time college sports when is it not the money...especially TV money?     

Yeah, I doubt the SEC and PAC 10 will be lobbying to even the playing field.

Push the start date back to March 1. Cut 12-15 games. 

Just leave it like it is. It is amazing right now.. we've got lots of games on TV now to choose from. 10 years ago there was zero college ball until Omaha.. programs are playing south early in the year and then fighting off the winter they best they can... 

Four games on ESPN3 right now.

Watching the Minnesota at Texas game right now.  Yes I get the Longhorn Network up in NY.  

A few misjudged fly balls and pop ups by Minnesota so far.  The commentators have mentioned, more than once, that they haven't gotten the outdoor reps this year.

I don't know the right answer to this question.

I am sympathetic to arguments on both sides.

I acknowledge that the present start date means many teams don't get to practice outside and many early season games are played before small uncomfortable gatherings of friends and relatives with no casual fans. It is frustrating for players: this is the second weekend of the official season, and my son has not yet played a game or had an outdoor practice. 

On the other hand, I also acknowledge that a primary function of college sports is to improve the quality of life and sense of community among the students, a function unlikely to be served by playing a majority of the games after all the students have gone home for the summer.

I am less concerned about conflicts with the major league draft and rookie short-season minor league ball.  In football and basketball, the college and pro seasons largely overlap, the drafts happen after both college and pro seasons end, and the drafted players begin their pro careers the following season. In baseball, the college season is over before the midpoint of the pro season, and the drafted players go right from college to pro in the same season. I don't know a compelling reason why MLB has to rush their prospects more than NFL and NBA do.

I am more concerned about the effect moving back the season might have on collegiate summer ball because collegiate summer ball plays such a crucial role in the development of so many college players.  I think the colleges should endeavor to protect collegiate summer ball because it serves their own interest.

But again, I don't know the right answer to the big question.

The college season began later many years ago, end of february actually, this didnt eliminate the bad weather but more of a chance of missing less games. I can remember sitting in the stands at Clemson and it was so very very cold, 27-28 degrees and flurries.  And the first year son was in school there was a white out at a game at NCState in March, the weather will always be a factor.

 There are enough college venues in the warmer state climates where games can be played on neutral sites, and let the very rich NCAA help pay to defray costs.  Many cold weather teams do this now.  The problem is that there are so many eastern states where we do know that the weather this time of year can be bad.  I have no issue with games being played in late fall with a break but the issue is that you have the almighty FOOTBALL season to contend with.

i have a few questions and observations about moving the season so that games would be played well into the summer.

First, who foots the increased costs which would fall on the families of the players? Because most players are not on a 100% scholarship, who pays the added costs of room and board? Parents?

Second, at least one conference would be forced to end baseball as a collegiate sport. Most players in the Ivy League actually use their summers doing what the NCAA proudly proclaims (going pro in a field outside of their sport) by getting internships and jobs. There is no way that any school in that conference could field a competitive team missing a significant component of their team. (On S team over half got jobs each summer.) Other schools will be similarly affected.

Third, many expensive private schools would be in a similar circumstance. Many players need to work during he summer to help their families who are straining to meet the cost of private (or public) school education. (Recognize that only a minority of d1 players actually play summer collegiate ball.) Without that contribution, families will get stretched even more. Take away summer earnings and some kids won't be able to play.

Fourth, under this scenario, players would be forced to play rather then learn which jobs they may like/not like by experimenting with a variety of summer jobs. Nothing like turning out even more graduates with no idea of where they fit in the real world.

Fifth, for the small minority of players who legitimately hope to play proball, where do scouts get to see them hit with wood bats? As it now stands, most of these type of player play wood bat collegiate summer ball - any one doubting that scouts would rather evaluate the player when he is using the tools of proball needs to see the frenzy of scouts at the Cape. 

Sixth, who pays the increased costs of universities who now need to devote dorms, utilities, and dining to kids who were not supposed to be on campus during the summer?

I can can see that the NCAA and ESPN would love to kill rival baseball leagues (i.e., summer ball) and make even more money (by making families and schools subsidize even more), but this would be an example of the flea living on the tail wagging the dog (imo).

Goosegg,

I can't answer all your questions, but I can give a partial answer to the first one.  Schools are permitted to give baseball players a per diem to cover living expenses for the days the season continues beyond the end of the semester. Of course, the ability of schools to fund that per diem varies widely.

i don't know if the season should start earlier, later or in the fall but I can tell you that i enjoyed the heck out of watching some college baseball Saturday afternoon while the snow was falling! Georgia impressed me quite a bit!

Swampboy.

You clearly answered my question about meals: schools pick up the increased expenses (at least those that can afford it). So, instead of a system where a handful of schools (those heading deep into the playoffs) have increased costs, now ALL schools have increased costs. As for the per diems (whether in college or proball), somehow it never seems enough to actually cover decent food and drink (I guess that is what parents are for).

And, here is another observation. Assume the new collegiate season ends sometime in mid July so the CWS process can begin. What do the players do every day while they are essentially prisoners on campus? Practice eight hours a day?

This latest movement to gain a competitive advantage simply seizes upon an unusual weather pattern to further a crass commercial agenda by two fellow travelers - neither of whom have student/athletes as the highest priority.

I can answer most of this in a single word: Irrelevant.

There are 60 schools, ESPN and the Conference TV Networks at the bottom of everything that is big time college sports.  The CWS has probably evolved to the 3rd biggest event in College sports after the Bowls, and March Madness.  I can see them tying in the CWS with the 4th of July the same way Bowls are tied to the Holidays. 

By sliding College Baseball 3 weeks later so that it ends around the 4th of July instead of mid June means that the entire College Baseball tournament avoids the NBA, NHL playoffs and that there is another couple of weeks of content that will get the conference TV networks almost to Fall Football training camps.

Think of them as mini ESPN's from 1983.  They can't put on Aussie Rules Football but if they can grind out programming from Sub Regional and Regionals through the majority of June.  Sooner or later they will.  Basketball takes them into March, Baseball to June and Football from August until December when it is back to basketball again.

The hole in their programming right now is late May to August.  They can fill almost half of that up with baseball by pushing things three weeks or so.  If a dope like me can see that, there has to be somebody else in those TV exec's that can too.

Rule 1: Sadly, money seems to drive the bus 100% of the time.

   Moving the schedule would destroy the summer baseball season  as we know it, but the NCAA can dodge that bullet by announcing that wooden bats will be mandatory within 4 years-to give the bat manufacturers time to unload their inventory. Composite wooden bats last almost as long as metal bats these days. They all make composites these days anyway.   Division I football players already arrive at school a month before classes, so baseball guys will stay a month after classes-same thing...sort of.     When in doubt, refer to Rule 1. If the NCAA thinks it can make more money, be very careful betting against it.    

    College ball without students and fraternities, and their antics, and without the joy of summer ball for the many small communities that somehow continue to support teams, would seem just wrong.   

As far as tv and summer, aren't we forgetting LLWS?

Actually, it'd be a good education for the LLWS kids-might as well start getting used to getting dumped upon by the NCAA at an early age. 

Here are several more observations to ponder.

If the regular season ends a full month later, who pays the coaches lost income from summer camps and showcases? As it stands now, coaches generate lots of money during summer camps and clinics. Shrink the summer window by a month and either the number of camps drop and/or the number of participants in each camp drop (same number of camps squeezed into the remaining time creates additional temporal supply without any corresponding increase in the supply of campers). In any case, the coaches make less. So either the coach sucks up that reduction or the college needs to increase his salary to make up the loss.

Even more impacted would be the volunteer coaches. They make a good portion of their earnings roaming the country in the summer getting paid to attend these camps. Shrink the summer by a month, shrink their meager earnings.

Recuiting is another area which would be impacted. As it is now, scouting potential players is tough during the season - especially out of the immediate area. Now shrink the summer scouting by a month.

So, coaches would need to somehow make up for a revenue loss, colleges (or parents) need to come up a plan to cover increased expenses (in a non-revenue generating sport), MLB's SS/rookie leagues are adversely impacted, drafted players development is directly impacted, collegiate summer leagues are extinguished, recruiting is made orders of magnitude more difficult, summer employment/internships go to non-baseball players (making it all the more difficult to find a real job), kids are glued to their campus 11 months a year, some conferences/many teams will drop baseball, etc. - all for what purpose? The same number of games will still be shown on tv - just a month later.

What strikes me about this is how different it must be for student-athletes in cold weather climates vs students in warm weather climates.

Looking just at the schools my own son was choosing between.   The teams in cold weather places have played many fewer games so far because of postponements and have many more games left to play because of rescheduling. One of the cold weather teams really has to pack 18 games in between tomorrow April 10th and May 2nd including many double headers.   That's brutal.  And these are d3 schools we're talking about.  Must be even worse and more brutal on cold weather D1's.