Moving to JV from Varsity

Here are some quotes from one of the best college coaches in the country:
" "We've done it with a group of guys—our first recruiting class are juniors now. We threw them into the fire as freshmen in one of the best leagues in the country. The learning curve is huge to be productive in the ACC. We failed a lot, and our kids learned a lot from that. They weren't beaten down by it. Now these guys have an agenda and they have goals. We're not jersey watching anymore. Our guys don't even know who we're playing, they're just playing to win every day."

"You look at our program, we've got a bunch of castaways who weren't good enough to play at other programs," Hughes said. "We've got a bunch of guys from different places, but they all have one thing in common: They've failed in this league and gotten better from it."

My view is your son learns nothing by moving down other than it is okay to accept failure.
He learns something by staying, by working harder, getting to the cages before practice, staying in the cages after practice. He has to get with his coaches and becomes a sponge for every piece of information they can provide on how to compete, how to never accept or be defeated by failing, and finding out what he needs to improve.
If you step in at this point, in my opinion, you are doing the exact wrong thing.
This is your son's battle. He needs to win it, but he needs to work harder than he has ever worked before to do it. And then he, and you need to realize, this is only the first one, it won't be the last one if he wants to play baseball for a long time.

Is he hitting the ball hard, soft, striking out or striking out looking? A lot of that is key as to what he's doing. Where in the lineup is he hitting?

Tell your son that overall if he can take a middle away approach to hitting that should help quite a bit. Reason being is it allows the ball to travel deep in the zone and he can get a better look at it.

Slumps are due to one of two things (and sometimes it can be both at the same time) - mechanical or approach.

If he's taking an ugly cut where his mechanics are out of whack then get him on some drills to simplify the swing back to it's basic components.

If he's swinging at pitches out of the zone or taking too many pitches then help him identify what the problem is exactly. Now he can develop an approach that hopefully will counteract what's going on.

Your son is a 3-3 game from having his batting average double. Whether it's ropes or dying quails what do you think one good game would do for his confidence? Don't ever ask to be sent down. That's a coach's decision. The coach believes in the kid or he would have already made that move.

My son started as a soph. He started the season 1-12. He got DH'ed for. Imagine the pressure of your value to the team only being a glove. Make an error and there's no way to atone for it at the plate. When he was allowed to hit again he went 2-3. That brought his confidence back. He went 2-3 the next game. From there he went on to finish the season over .300.

Your son just needs to work hard to be prepared to take advantage of the next opportunity. It may be a pinch hitting appearance. One frozen rope could get him back in the lineup.

Ask coach to move son to JV because of a slump? No way. I'd never step in like that and suggest such a thing. Any on-field decisions were made between coaches and players. The pitching generally sucks on JV. No knock on JV players (my son played JV) but the difference in varsity vs JV pitching is night and day and moving to JV not the answer anyway.

My son was among the conference leaders in batting average his senior year and a 1 for 10-15 slump killed his average at the end of the season. He was frustrated but his take on it was he was hitting the ball right at people and the hits will come.

Fast forward to the opening round of the conference tournament, the coach still keeps him in the 3-hole despite not hitting for a few games, he dribbles one between the P,C and 3B and beat out for his first hit in about 10ABs.

He wound up going 4 for 5, 3RBIs including a 2-run triple, 3 stolen bases and scored 4 runs. He hit .500 in the conference tournament.

Sure players go thru slumps. The HS season is very short and an 0-19 feels like 0-100 in a 20-25 game season. All you can do is try and work out of them.

Going down to JV will do squat. You're better off working in the hitting cage and fix anything mechanical if that's the case. Sure you might get some confidence hitting meatball pitchers on JV but it won't help at the varsity level.

Besides, if an underclassman varsity player was sturggling so bad that he may be in over his head or not ready for the varsity game, the coach will send them down. No need to get involved and help the coach make that decision.

What happens when you ask to be demoted and it is granted? What kind of pressure will your son feel to produce at the JV level? What if he slumps there? Demote him to Middle School? Too many scenarios to list.

19 ab's is nothing. Most hs hitters will end up with around 95 - 115 ab's for a season. You shouldn't know how many ab's he has had anyway. And you need to forget about knowing what his average is. He needs to go up there and have a quality at bat and then move on to the next quality at bat. He needs to fight , scratch , claw and do whatever it takes to have those quality at bats.

I can tell you this coaches dont take kids out of the line up. Kids take themselves out of the line up. Coaches read body language and if they see a kid has lost confidence in himself they will lose confidence in that player. It does not matter what that players average is. If a kid is hitting .100 after 19 ab's and he is getting up there like he is hitting .500. If he is getting up there with confidence and having quality at bats. The coach is going to have confidence in him regardless of the average. Why? Because the kid is making him feel like he is making the right decision by having him in the line up. As soon as the coach see's a kid that has no confidence in himself he will lose confidence in that decision to put his name on the line up card. And that can carry over to the next season and possibly his entire hs career with that coach.

Hel no he doesnt ask for a demotion. He earned that posistion and he does what it takes to keep it. If he is losing confidence he is too focused on his average and too focused on failure. He needs to focus on just having a great at bat every time up and nothing else.

Is there any creedance to him not playing his normal position at 1B at all and only being a DH as being a possible issue, you know how they say playing the field and batting gets you "in to" the game. My take on going to JV would be to get "reps" at 1B and be "in the game" then se if that impacts his batting. Coach has told me mechanically he is fine, needs to let the ball travel and trust his hands. I am having his eyes checked to rule that out as he does wear contacts. He is not being aggressive enough in my opinion, coupled with the fact the coaches are throwing a ton of info at him regarding "knowing the situation etc" instead of just letting him get up there and hit. I told him to do just that, get up and hit regardless of the situation.

Thanks for all your insight, its a helpful as ever!

EricG

Varsity baseball, if not JV baseball is where these guys should be learning to hit in situations. Moving a runner over into scoring position, needing that fly ball to score the runner from 3B etc. We have a lot of guys on our squad who struggle with this at first and it may effect their batting averages, but at the end of the season and going forward they are better baseball players because of it.

IMO I would trust the coaching staff to work with your son on strategy, and let your son work through his mini-slump. You'll be surprised at how quickly a mini-slump can turn into him being on fire.

Best of luck to your son as he plays varsity for the next 3 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric G:
Is there any creedance to him not playing his normal position at 1B at all and only being a DH as being a possible issue, you know how they say playing the field and batting gets you "in to" the game. My take on going to JV would be to get "reps" at 1B and be "in the game" then se if that impacts his batting. Coach has told me mechanically he is fine, needs to let the ball travel and trust his hands. I am having his eyes checked to rule that out as he does wear contacts. He is not being aggressive enough in my opinion, coupled with the fact the coaches are throwing a ton of info at him regarding "knowing the situation etc" instead of just letting him get up there and hit. I told him to do just that, get up and hit regardless of the situation.

Thanks for all your insight, its a helpful as ever!

Eric,
I don't mean this to sound mean, but from what you are posting, it sounds like you might be part of the issue. I don't mean that to sound mean at all. But, the coaches seem to really know what they are doing from your descriptions of them.
They express confidence in your son, but you are going to have his eyes checked.
The coaches are throwing a lot of things at him including situational hitting and you are telling him to just go up there, forget everything and hit "regardless of the situation."
Some situations call for a hitter to do a job. Some require him to hit behind a runner, some require him to get a ball elevated to the outfield, some require him to take a strike, some require him to hit and run.
Many AB's involve a situation where your son has a job to do. To tell him to forget everything "regardless of the situation" isn't helping him, in my view. How do you feel you son processes your guidance to forget the situation and the coaches guidance on situational hitting when he is standing in the on deck circle?
The coaches say he is mechanically fine, let the ball travel and trust his hands, and you don't feel he is being aggressive enough.
How do you feel your son processes those different pieces of information as he approaches each AB?
Is it possible the lack of confidence is occurring because your son is struggling, you are telling him one thing and his coaches are telling him different things?
I don't have the answer but your posts and comments raised those questions for me immediately.
As Coach May said, forget his average. The question is whether he is having quality AB's. Let his coaches be the judge on those and how to help him if he isn't.

Eric G

I have to agree --you may be the problem---the coach has confidence in the player and that is what counts--most parents come on here complaining about the coach and here you have a coach you apparently believes in your son more than you do and you want to demote your son---WHAT WILL YOU DO TO HIS CONFIDENCE?

Do you have more baseball knowledge than your sons coach?


DADDY sit back, relax and enjoy the game--root for the team---root for your player---

THANKS for all your info and insight guys I am taking it all in, trust me. I have never portrayed going to JV would be a "demotion" only a way in which to get his confidence back at the plate and to possibly get some time at 1B.
He has always been a top hitter on his travel teams, at a high level of competition I might add. He has been off due to some labrum repairs and maybe I am not taking that in to consideration just enough.
I respect all your comments and take no issue with any of them.
I am going to sick back and continue to root as was advised.

Eric: the thoughts you are dealing with are very normal. We all want to see our kids succeed but remember there are many parents who would trade places with you in a minute (their kid got cut or rides the JV bench). The coach has all the information in front of him... he may decide to play your son a few games of JV or he may not but I gaurantee you there are about 39 other thoughts that go into that formula. Wherever he plays; just be supportive (as you've said)...

I have a lad going thru this... he's making some errors on the varsity and wants to play some JV; so some JV kid has to sit the bench now to make room for him? Do you see how tightly the dominoes are stacked?

quote:

19 ab's is nothing. Most hs hitters will end up with around 95 - 115 ab's for a season.

95-115 ABs here in the northeast would be on the very high side since typical high school seasons are 20-25 games and if you avarage 2-3 AB's, typical HS players who start all the time might see about 75 ABs a season. The only way they'd get that many ABs is if every game, they're getting an avarage of 4 ABs a game and that's not likely. Going 0-19 in a HS season up here is a big as far as the batting average goes and the number of AB's they get in a season here. Of course you have to peel away the surface as to wny they're not hitting. One thing not often mentioned is the quality of pitchers faced. Some players go in slumps because they're facing the other team's aces game after game.

For all parents to keep in mind--slumps are part of the game --they happen---they also separate the players from the non players---the players recover and keep going

Eric,

My son is going through the same kind of situation that your son is going through. He is a sophomore. He made varsity but has been struggling at the plate. He has a .500 on base percentage but he is striking out too much. He not only is striking out, many times he is swinging and missing the ball completely. He has had some bright spots. He had a home run last Saturday and 3 RBI's.Last night my son said the coach is going to have him continue practicing with the varsity but is sending him to the sophomore team (no JV team)to play for a week or so. My son said said the coach wants him to get his confidence back up. My son didn't play with the sophomore team last year. He started on the freshmen team and stayed there for the year. He did play summer ball and fall ball with the high school with great success but I will add...the 90 mph pitchers weren't playing in those games.I think the jump to varsity was a wakeup call on how hard it can be to hit a 90 or 90 plus fastball and also how a well seasoned pitcher learns how to read a batter and where to place a pitch with consistincy.

I would never indicate what team my son should play. I will say I think the coaches move to get him back with the soph's is a good move right now. I'm heading out this afternoon to support my son on his first sophomore game of the season. I hope it goes well so he can feel good about hitting again. He is a hard worker so I know he will work harder on T work and other drills.

Good luck to your son Eric, hang in there I know how you are feeling.

The big difference in varsity pitching vs JV IMO isn't 90MPH pitchers because people overrate this and realistcally, most varsity pitchers throw low-mid 80s with top all-state pitchers topping out at upper 80's maybe 90 if they hurl it with all they got. They ain't cruising at 90, that's for sure. If there were all these 90MPH fireballers in HS, you'd see a lot of pro scouts at all these games. Don't buy into all the hype about who throws 90. There aren't that many. They're out there but not like we're led to believe

The big difference is varsiity pitchers can throw strikes and have better command than JV pitchers so more often on varsity, batters will be in more pitchers counts. On JV you just wait for a pitcher to groove one because they typically lack the command at that level therefore putting the hitters at a greater advantage and in a place mentally where they're naturally more confident. Hitting 3-0 and 3-1 against JVs much different than coming back 0-2 on the varsity level.

Thanks Runningaway!

Zomby just to be clear. Yes I talked about the 90 mile an hour pitching didn't see any fresh doing that last year and I have watched enough ball to know that by the time kids are varsity they throw great curve ball's sliders change up's and jam players inside take it outside high and low...in other words their command for pitching is at another level at the varsity level. I've read a lot of posts who say scouts recruiters don't come to too many high school games....well I know they come to our games...Thats how I know kids were pitching 90. I sit behind home plate and when they sit in front of you with their guns and clip boards...one takes notice and can see the readout. To be clear it was only two pitchers with that kind of velocity. The rest of the pitchers were probably just your average high school pitcher.

Let me throw this in there, if the coach is negative towards the struggling player, making comments about his summer team and that he cant play at this level, would say this is out of line?

E.G. - My son is also a soph bouncing back and forth between Varsity (60%) and Sophmore (40%) teams. Not hitting anything this year at either level as opposed to freshman year at .400. He's frustrated with his offense but learning alot from the varsity coach and making a good contribution defensively.

In my opinion, I view it as a learning process in that he's figuring out what it takes to hit against quality pitching. His confidence has suffered but he is becoming more of a student of the game rather than trying to crush the ball everytime he can. Whereas his freshman year a pitcher may make three or more mistakes in an at-bat (i.e., good pitches to hit), he may only see one per at bat at the varsity level. As such, he's had to become much more aware of situational hitting and looking to accomplish certain things.

For what it's worth I too am hoping that a couple of solid hits will get the confidence on the mend but I think the excelerated learning curve is more important at this point in his high school career. Just my two cents.

quote:

Originally posted by Milt:
E.G. - My son is also a soph bouncing back and forth between Varsity (60%) and Sophmore (40%) teams. Not hitting anything this year at either level as opposed to freshman year at .400. He's frustrated with his offense but learning alot from the varsity coach and making a good contribution defensively.

In my opinion, I view it as a learning process in that he's figuring out what it takes to hit against quality pitching. His confidence has suffered but he is becoming more of a student of the game rather than trying to crush the ball everytime he can. Whereas his freshman year a pitcher may make three or more mistakes in an at-bat (i.e., good pitches to hit), he may only see one per at bat at the varsity level. As such, he's had to become much more aware of situational hitting and looking to accomplish certain things.

For what it's worth I too am hoping that a couple of solid hits will get the confidence on the mend but I think the excelerated learning curve is more important at this point in his high school career. Just my two cents.

A lot of people would be really frustrated with this situation. I think you've got a great outlook.

wraggarm


When you say "a lot of people would be frustrated with this situation" are you talking about the player or the parent?

I don't get the frustration of any underclassman bouncing up and down from varsity to JV. Just the fact that a sophomore is on the varsity radar should be enough. You know he'll definitely play down on JV at the very least while getting some varsity exposure at the same time meaning that come junioir year, is most likely a varsity fixture. I have no pity for this kind of petty nonsense.

Wraggarm and E.G. - There is a certain level of frustration for the player and parent. We're all used to our kids excelling on the field and at the plate. When they don't excel it's natural to wonder what's wrong (for player as well as the parent). I've had to remind myself several times to stay positive and let the coaches do what they do.

Zombywoof says he doesn't have any tolerance for this "petty nonsense" but I think it is natural. Z-Woof is right however when he says that varsity exposure as a sophmore will set the stage for the for the future. Also, I keep reminding yourself that I've got a 15 year old playing with the 17 and 18 year olds and holding his own (at least defensively and at catcher no less). Bottom line - I trust the varsity coach and as long as the learning continues, I'll continue to take a deep breath now and again so I can enjoy watching my son's development.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how I would be if I didn't trust the coach.

Eric,

I say heck no on the move to JV. Why pullback when things aren't going well?!? Push forward and work through it.

Work on building his confidence. Don't let him wallow in self pity. Talk about what he saw in his AB and what he could have done to change the outcome. You say he is not being aggressive enough. Talk to him in a positive manner about taking good pitches in the AB and being forced to swing at others because he put himself in that position. I worked through this with my soph. this year without undermining the coach's work.

It sounds to me like his coach is trying to find a way to get him on track. Any of the perceived negative comments may be his way of trying to motivate your son. No biggie, IMO, since it sounds like he has been super positive the whole time.

Edit: FWIW, I did not read any of the comments from other posters until AFTER I posted. I think you have some good guidance here.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
I have no pity for this kind of petty nonsense.

Any kid worth his competitive salt wants to break into Varsity as soon as he gets on campus. I don't care who he is, its a frustrating situation for a competitive kid to go through the process of bouncing up and down, because to him it means he's almost there, but not quite. It's not petty for him to be frustrated.

If you're saying I'm being petty for telling this guy he's got a great outlook on a frustrating situation, then this is really a non-conversation.

quote:

Any kid worth his competitive salt wants to break into Varsity as soon as he gets on campus

Of course but the player has no control over that. My son didn't sniff varsity as a soph and played half his junior season on JV before the varsity coach even knew his name. How frustrating is that to a junior? He knew he should've started his junior year on varsity to try and win a starting spot, instead, he gets sent down with seven other juniors to JV where at least he did play every day. He paid his dues and had to prove himself and time wasn't on his side like a sophomore has. So yea, I don't feel sorry because some sophomore can't handle shuffling between JV and V. My son did it and not once did he complain he should be on varsity. He said as long as he's playing, he'll get his shot. I knew it bothered him and all he did was continue to work hard, play hard and smart, respect the game, and destroy JV pitching until the varsity coach could no longer ignore him. By his senior year, he was one of the top offensive players on the team and maybe, one of the better players in the conference and his defense sured up an outfield that had holes and struggled offensively.

So the next time some freshman or sophomore complains he's not playing over some junior or senior or bouncing between varsity and jv because the varsity coach wants to get a look into the future or the present to fill a need, have him think of those players who had to pay their dues in a system who may not get their shot or had to work that much harder and longer to earn their spot and continue to play hard and do the job wherever the HC sends you.

Just a quick update. I know to a couple people it seemed odd to get his eye prescription checked but we did and it was off slightly from a year ago so we got corrected contacts on Friday and Friday night he hit a HR in the top of the 7th coming cold off the bench to hit and launched it somewhere about 370' in his only at bat and Saturday went 1 for 1 with a double and a walk and HBP.

I and he think things are turning around for the better, I dont know if it was the eyes or not but at least we eliminated that as a possibility and maybe it just gave him that bit of confidence back.

Thanks for all your support!

You can't hit what you don't see so for a baseball player, getting the eyes checked is a good idea. If you never checked or haven't checked them in a while, you never know if there's a vision change so any doubt, go check them.

Great news and congrats on his recent success.

Thanks Coach May

Great to hear Eric G. Glad it seems to have turned around.

Update on my 2012 catcher as well - seems to have worked through the three week slump. Hitting instructor gave him some insignificant tweak in his swing to focus on allowing his mind to "rest" so to speak. Six line drives in last seven at bats. The swagger is back.

hey Milt,
mind sharing what that "tweek" was?

Citiguy,

The tweak was the angle of his front foot after his stride. Closed it ever so slightly (just enough to give him something simple to think about he explained to me later with a wink and nod). Full time baseball instructor, part time psychiatrist!

I remember reading on this site from one of the old timers that his son, who is leading his team in batting and has always hit near the top of his team, his son was in a slump, Dad took him to get his vision checked, and lo and behold, his prescription HAD changed. So if your son wears glasses/contacts it doesn't hurt to check occasionally.

Great to hear the boys are doing better!