quote:
Originally posted by Jon Doyle:
It's unethical because the coach recommended the product without first taking a closer look at nutrition/training. Also, this kind of advise leads kids to believe the answers are found in a bottle.
Why do NO supplements stink? Here is my good friend Dave Barr's writing after doing endless research...
• Arginine blood flow stimulators ("nitric-oxide" or "NO2" supplements) have been shown to increase vasodilation, but only in unfed people receiving enormous doses through an IV.
• O R A L arginine supplementation doesn't affect blood flow.
• A dose as low as 10 grams has been associated with gastric upset when consumed orally. This dose has no significant effect on glycogen storage, even if it didn't cause diarrhea.
• Time release arginine is supposed to lead to a "perpetual pump" effect. New studies have shown this not to be the case.
• NO2 was shown to have no effect compared to a placebo on body composition or muscle strength.
• It's not possible for us to consume high enough levels of arginine to effectively increase nitric oxide levels.
• Copycat NO2 products are no better than the original supplement. In fact, those that contain glycocyamine should be avoided because of potential health concerns.
• If you think these products work for you, then you'd better look into the placebo effect.
• Arginine might temporarily elevate growth hormone levels, but only if you're able to take unrealistic doses. There's little evidence to support that this short term increase in GH would do anything for your physique anyway.
• In one study, arginine aspartate was shown to increase prolactin by an average of 75%. Prolactin is associated with decreased Testosterone levels.
• Five grams of arginine consumed during resistance exercise was shown to decrease normal exercise-induced GH output.
• The positive benefits of O R A L arginine supplementation can only be achieved through doses higher than the human body can handle. And most (but not all) of this effect is mediated by insulin. So if you want to have blood flow increases equivalent to a huge IV arginine infusion, just manipulate insulin through other means such as a proper post-workout meal.
So again, explain why a high school kid with far from optimal training and nutrition should use a supplement that doesnt even work and can potentially be harmless?
Firstly, I never said that the kid should even take NO OR that it was a worthwhile supplement to take for permanent gains. I only asked why it's unethical (I thought you meant morally wrong). There are massive amounts of anecdotal evidence to suggest that L-Arginine/Citrulline Malate/etc vasodilate blood vessels (even at doses under 10g). I also never said that NO directly affects permanent gains in body comp. Psychologically NO products can be good because they make you *think* you are getting larger and inspire one to work harder in the gym (at least in the cases I've seen, including myself). NO could theoretically enhance creatine delivery as well...I also never believed in the perpetual pump theory.
**** Arginine doesn't affect blood flow?
...
Anyway I think you took my question the wrong way and got much too offended. I was mainly asking whats so bad about the pro-oxidant effects of NO.
No hard feelings...
Justin
