Do I think he should be in? No (again, only if Blyleven gets in, first...then I would say yes).
Do I think he WILL get in. Yup.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
CPLZ is it safe to assume you are talking about pitchers and gold gloves? If not could you explain a bit more.
Coach,
Nope, my comment about the Gold Glove was not exclusively about pitchers. Gold Gloves are, more than any other award, incumbency awards. If you got it, someone needs to unseat you to get it. It doesn't seem to be an award that starts each year from scratch, it starts with previous winners as favorites. There are many examples, including recent, where the best fielding player at his position did not win in favor of the player that won it last year or previously.
Ok I see where you are coming from and understand. Thanks
I will totally agree with you about pitchers who get the gold glove but I still believe the position players aren't as bad. I agree it does happen but not as much as with pitchers.
quote:Originally posted by Coachric:
All due respect to Mussina, he was never a number 1 or number 2 starter. He's generally been a number 3 on not good, but great teams. His winning percentage has something to do with the great yankee teams and the very good oriole teams he played for. He's still a great pitcher, but this is the HOF we're talking about. It should be reserved for the very best, not the sort-a very good.
Blyleven had 242 complete games and over 500 decisions. He played on some bad teams and was still the ace most of the time.
Aces who win 300 get in, Blyleven is only one exception to me.
Are you talking about him not being a #1 or #2 for the Yankees or overall on every team? I don't think you can compare him to just his team. He wouldn't be a 1 or 2 over Roger Clemens but he goes to almost any other team he is probably their 1 and definately their 2. Plus how many starts / wins / numbers did he (and others during this time) lose to the strike? He finished 30 games away from 300 but what if he was able to pick up another 15 wins during that time off? Would 285 get him in as a lock? Once again you cannot have a minimum set of criteria to meet.
I don't know if I would vote him in or not without A LOT more research.
Another thing to think about - do we rate him against the people he played with or all baseball players ever?
Baseball beats the pro golf HOF - they basically got a checklist to get in. Once you meet this and this and this criteria you are in. I don't like that at all.
Does football, hockey or basketball have any criteria or regulations to be in their HOF?
Coach, baseball as we know, is the great game of numbers and stats. Hitters should and do have it easier to get in as they have to play everyday and endure 154, and now 162 games plus playoffs. A starter may get 30-35 starts a year. The standards are higher for a pitcher because of the limited play time. I would not and do not compare any pitcher to the players of his era, only to the pitchers of his era and of all time.
Heck, Rice still isn't in and he was the most dominate hitter of his time.
For years, we red sox fans waited and watched as Mussina choked in big game situations. I believe this year was his strongest as he didn't put much pressure on big games. Maybe he knew he was retiring. I have a deep respect for a player like him and his accomplishments are many, but IMHO, not HOF.
Like JT said, this guy played in NY, so he will probably get in.
If he played in San Diego or Kansas City, would he have 250-275 wins. I think not. Not a dominator.
Heck, Rice still isn't in and he was the most dominate hitter of his time.
For years, we red sox fans waited and watched as Mussina choked in big game situations. I believe this year was his strongest as he didn't put much pressure on big games. Maybe he knew he was retiring. I have a deep respect for a player like him and his accomplishments are many, but IMHO, not HOF.
Like JT said, this guy played in NY, so he will probably get in.
If he played in San Diego or Kansas City, would he have 250-275 wins. I think not. Not a dominator.
If they tried to give out more than one gold glove to pitchers, they would have a tough time, imo. Not the most graceful athletes, at least in my family. 
Does character find a way into the decision?
From this article it appears it may -
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8821278/Mussina-thri...oid-era-has-to-count
I loved watching Mussina pitch over the years, It was a sad day for me when he left Baltimore for the pinstripes....
First class guy who always maintained his composure, rarely overpowering but I really think few would argue that Mike Mussina could pitch.
HOF - I hope so!
From this article it appears it may -
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8821278/Mussina-thri...oid-era-has-to-count
I loved watching Mussina pitch over the years, It was a sad day for me when he left Baltimore for the pinstripes....
First class guy who always maintained his composure, rarely overpowering but I really think few would argue that Mike Mussina could pitch.
HOF - I hope so!
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Would a pitcher who only won 236 over 16 years be a good bet for the Hall ?
Are you jesting?
Or are you saying you really think Whitey Ford should NOT be in Hall?