MUST READ For Parents

I remember reading this when it first came out and it really changed the way I watched my kid's games.  I'm not a yeller or do a lot of cheering, but when I do, my voice carries.  So now I watch my son from the OF, or at least down the base lines.  I'm never behind the plate.  I don't want him to have to see me with every pitch (I see way too many kids look to mom and dad for acknowledgement with every play), plus the closer I get, the more vocal I can become.  I love the fields where I can have a couple of beers and shoot the sht with other parents, while enjoying a ball game.

Plus, I can count on 1 hand how many times I've spoken with my kid's coaches.  If they have a problem, they discuss it, not me.  I don't even like developing a personal relationship with them.

Thanks for sharing!

This should have been a welcome correspondence for any of his players' parents; although, there were probably some who thought that certain parts might not apply to them or could be circumvented.

As I read it, I kept thinking that Mike Shildt took exactly the same approach to player development and the handling of parents when he was coaching high school-aged players. He didn't write a letter to us; but, every season began with a parents' meeting that set exactly the same expectations. Perhaps the  toughest mandate for some parents to accept in that situation: that player development came before winning. Most of us, though, understood what he was trying to accomplish with that age group and were glad of his approach.

Thanks very much for sharing the link. I've passed it along to my son, for whom I am certain it will resonate loudly.

This is good stuff here.  Prior to reading this my son's baseball instructor pretty much conducted his lessons, practices, and games identical to what Matheny preached.  I truly believe son is where he currently is, with this serving as a foundation for his journey

The only thing I'm not sure that i agree with is the cheering. I have no problem with parents/fans doing that, as long as it is positive, and not overbearing.

 My 14 yo son played on a higher level team last year, and one of his comments was that the parents were really quiet. It wasn't a problem, but he was used to a bit more cheering. I'm always in the dugout or on the field, so I don't notice that much, unless someone has a loud, insistent voice that tends to stick out from all the others. I would want that person to tone it down. 

   The "advice" that Dad's give to their sons when they are at the plate is something that has to  go away. We tell all out parents that it is crossing the line.

  Another thing, for Dad/Mom coaches. Give your player a choice every year to "hire" you on. My eldest told me when he was 14 that I was fired. I subtly encouraged my youngest to fire me the past two years, but he wants me around, so I'll stick, assuming the team wants me also.

  Unbeknownst to us coaches, a parent on our team confronted the umpires after a playoff game where there was a controversial, game deciding call. He will likely be banned from watching games for at least part of next year. Bad call or not, that can't happen.

57special posted:

The only thing I'm not sure that i agree with is the cheering. I have no problem with parents/fans doing that, as long as it is positive, and not overbearing.

 

 My 14 yo son played on a higher level team last year, and one of his comments was that the parents were really quiet. It wasn't a problem, but he was used to a bit more cheering. I'm always in the dugout or on the field, so I don't notice that much, unless someone has a loud, insistent voice that tends to stick out from all the others. I would want that person to tone it down. 

   The "advice" that Dad's give to their sons when they are at the plate is something that has to  go away. We tell all out parents that it is crossing the line.

  Another thing, for Dad/Mom coaches. Give your player a choice every year to "hire" you on. My eldest told me when he was 14 that I was fired. I subtly encouraged my youngest to fire me the past two years, but he wants me around, so I'll stick, assuming the team wants me also.

 

  Unbeknownst to us coaches, a parent on our team confronted the umpires after a playoff game where there was a controversial, game deciding call. He will likely be banned from watching games for at least part of next year. Bad call or not, that can't happen.

I'm not a fan of parents cheering when the opposing team screws up.  Was watching the LLWS this year and fans going nuts when the opposing team made an error.  40 years olds cheering when a 12 y/o boots a ball doesn't seem right to me.

I get it, most of the time, it's just a reaction, but...

Read the book as well. Lot's of good take away points.

CTbballDad posted:

57special posted:

The only thing I'm not sure that i agree with is the cheering. I have no problem with parents/fans doing that, as long as it is positive, and not overbearing.

 

 My 14 yo son played on a higher level team last year, and one of his comments was that the parents were really quiet. It wasn't a problem, but he was used to a bit more cheering. I'm always in the dugout or on the field, so I don't notice that much, unless someone has a loud, insistent voice that tends to stick out from all the others. I would want that person to tone it down. 

   The "advice" that Dad's give to their sons when they are at the plate is something that has to  go away. We tell all out parents that it is crossing the line.

  Another thing, for Dad/Mom coaches. Give your player a choice every year to "hire" you on. My eldest told me when he was 14 that I was fired. I subtly encouraged my youngest to fire me the past two years, but he wants me around, so I'll stick, assuming the team wants me also.

 

  Unbeknownst to us coaches, a parent on our team confronted the umpires after a playoff game where there was a controversial, game deciding call. He will likely be banned from watching games for at least part of next year. Bad call or not, that can't happen.

I'm not a fan of parents cheering when the opposing team screws up.  Was watching the LLWS this year and fans going nuts when the opposing team made an error.  40 years olds cheering when a 12 y/o boots a ball doesn't seem right to me.

I get it, most of the time, it's just a reaction, but...

I don’t believe the parents are cheering failure. They’re cheering the positive result of the play for their son’s team. My experience as a player and parent in these kinds of tournaments from LL through Legion and travel is some parents are overly emotionally invested. They get excited easily.

The further the team goes the worse some parents get. As a player or coach you’re focused on execution. Some parents are in the stands with a lot of nervous energy. I wonder if it has to do with not be able to control positive results for their son.

There was a parent in my son’s age group wrapped so tight by the time her son’s team got to Williamsport she must have busted at least ten sets of sunglasses and broken an equal number of rosary beads. Tony Gwynn commented on tv a parent wrapped this tight needs to find another way to be entertained. Away from watching her son play she was a very nice, normal person. 

Matheny's piece is good.  But.. it's not something that applies to most 10- and 11-year-old ballplayers IMO.  Kids who are serious about the game, have played it a few years and showed some aptitude--sure (and that is who he is addressing).  I get tired, though, of seeing this link sent to parents by dads coaching 7- and 8-year-old Rec teams.  That's not a knock on Matheny or his manifesto.  I just don't think every guy coaching a kids baseball team ought to expect quite the same level of deference.  When I coach machine pitch in Little League, I ask the parents not to bring food to the kids during games, but I know it's going to happen; and I know I can't get too bent out of shape about it.   Just one man's opinion...

If this type of respect and autonomy is to be provided to a adult who is interacting with a child then the adult should be beyond reproach. 

Frequently these “coaches” in travel ball may know about Baseball but lack respect and regard for families and in some cases players. 

lying and double standards are standard and that is enough to frustrate anyone who is paying $800 plus a season.

maybe coaches can do a better job of telling the truth. Maybe then they won’t ever need to speak to a parent again if they are so maddening.

Just my .02

I agree with Chico.  I have seen coaches send something like this or make a speech like this to the parents and not be able to carry out their end of the deal.  The level of accountability is higher for the coaches than the parents.  When it is exhibited by the coaching staff, it is easier to emulate by the parents.  But when it is daddy ball or a hysterical coach who is cussing and arguing every play or someone who ultimately has no clue what they are doing or a guy who may know the game because he watches the (fill in the black with a MLB team) but does not know how to teach it.  Then the parents can't be held to a different level.  The coaches have to be above reproach and live it out before they can hold a parent accountable. 

Baseballmom3201 posted:

If this type of respect and autonomy is to be provided to a adult who is interacting with a child then the adult should be beyond reproach. 

Frequently these “coaches” in travel ball may know about Baseball but lack respect and regard for families and in some cases players. 

lying and double standards are standard and that is enough to frustrate anyone who is paying $800 plus a season.

maybe coaches can do a better job of telling the truth. Maybe then they won’t ever need to speak to a parent again if they are so maddening.

Just my .02

$800 per season?  Man, I gotta move to Louisiana

The expectation for parent actions required portion seems a bit over the top.  Most parents are reasonable with their actions and are not a distraction to their son/daughter or to the team during games.  Setting the expectation that any parent who is a distraction to their player or the team during practice and games will see their player removed from the program would seem to be more appropriate here.  The portion regarding how the team / coaches will conduct themselves with regard to opposing teams / umpires should be the standard.

"Be Nice" - Dalton, Roadhouse 1989

CTbballDad posted:

57special posted:

The only thing I'm not sure that i agree with is the cheering. I have no problem with parents/fans doing that, as long as it is positive, and not overbearing.

 

 My 14 yo son played on a higher level team last year, and one of his comments was that the parents were really quiet. It wasn't a problem, but he was used to a bit more cheering. I'm always in the dugout or on the field, so I don't notice that much, unless someone has a loud, insistent voice that tends to stick out from all the others. I would want that person to tone it down. 

   The "advice" that Dad's give to their sons when they are at the plate is something that has to  go away. We tell all out parents that it is crossing the line.

  Another thing, for Dad/Mom coaches. Give your player a choice every year to "hire" you on. My eldest told me when he was 14 that I was fired. I subtly encouraged my youngest to fire me the past two years, but he wants me around, so I'll stick, assuming the team wants me also.

 

  Unbeknownst to us coaches, a parent on our team confronted the umpires after a playoff game where there was a controversial, game deciding call. He will likely be banned from watching games for at least part of next year. Bad call or not, that can't happen.

I'm not a fan of parents cheering when the opposing team screws up.  Was watching the LLWS this year and fans going nuts when the opposing team made an error.  40 years olds cheering when a 12 y/o boots a ball doesn't seem right to me.

I get it, most of the time, it's just a reaction, but...

Agreed. To me, that's not cheering(encouraging)  your team.  Strange when adults act like kids, and kids act like adults.

BTW, I don't mean to imply that parents act badly most of the time. In fact, the opposite is usually true. I've met tons of really, really good people in baseball. They like to have a good laugh, face defeat with aplomb,  are ready to help out, and are appreciative. 

diggum posted:

The expectation for parent actions required portion seems a bit over the top.  Most parents are reasonable with their actions and are not a distraction to their son/daughter or to the team during games.  Setting the expectation that any parent who is a distraction to their player or the team during practice and games will see their player removed from the program would seem to be more appropriate here.  The portion regarding how the team / coaches will conduct themselves with regard to opposing teams / umpires should be the standard.

"Be Nice" - Dalton, Roadhouse 1989

 

I put a lot of thought in this before I answered.  I counted during lunch and I think my sons have played on over 50 teams between them.  I can't think of a single team that didn't have at least that one parent that was "over the top" in some form or fashion and I might have been on that list a few times in my younger days.  LOL  I have seen the fights at the games, the cursing of the coach, the umpire, the other players on their team, the other team, the other coach.  You name it.  The parent that gets drunk and shows up or is drunk at the hotel after the game.  The "i can coach better than you", "my son never makes a mistake", "why did you put my son on the mound with no outs and bases loaded", and on and on.   I was telling a mom yesterday after a lesson that I think the worst part of youth sports is the parents.  It would be so much better to provide a large number of cameras per field and have the parents watch from another place.  I completely disagree on the distraction part because my son says all the time I wish parents would just be quiet and quit all the talking.  "They say the dumbest things and embarrass their kids so much."  I remind him that is our prerogative if we are the ones paying but I also realize that he is right.  We are very distracting trying to coach and cheer from the stands.  I hate also when parents cheer because the other team did something good and say that a boy to their kid or team when they should be in the dugout except the other team made a mistake.  It is like yelling to the other team great job screwing up. 

There has to be a code and repercussions.  I disagree with some that the kid can be the target of the repercussions of the parents comments or actions.  You have to get rid of cancer in the stands at all levels but it has to as a result of showing how to act on the field as a coach.

I think it's sad that parent problems have become so pervasive that some soccer leagues in my area actually have "silent Saturdays" where parents aren't even allowed to cheer.  Yes, there are some forms of rooting that are obnoxious (air horns and cow bells, for instance) but thinking back to my experiences as a kid, I always thought it was cool to hear people rooting for you.  Seems like part of the game to me.  Yes, one can compete in front of empty bleachers, but I enjoy it when a crowd is (politely) into a youth sports event.  (And I cheer for particularly good plays by teams playing against my son's, too.)

Having said that, my kids both claimed they didn't care if their parents came to their games and didn't care if anyone cheered in the stands.  Part of that was teenage bravado, I think.  But maybe kids today play so many games that they really don't care much?  When I was a boy, seasons were shorter and we didn't have travel teams--playing a game on a weekend was a big deal (and a rainout was desolating).

As for cheering when the other team makes a mistake:  Yes, but...  Say it's a tie game, bottom of the last inning, 2 outs and a runner on third.  Your kid's team hits a hot grounder that gets under the 3rd baseman's glove for a walk-off win.  I would expect the winning team's fans to cheer--not on account of the error, but because the game turned on the play.  Any time a base runner reaches in a close game, including on an error, it seems normal to me to hear some clapping and excitement.  Heck, when you cheer for a home run, you may also be "cheering" the fact that pitcher hung a curve ball or got too much of the plate with a pitch.  

Isn't one of the main character-building aspects of sport learning to perform under pressure--and to deal with failing to perform also?  No one should ever jeer a youngster who makes a mistake.  But there is something to be said for having to walk off the field while the other team and its fans celebrate, knowing you blew a play--and then coming back next game to try again.  I have coached quite a few Little Leaguers who dissolved in tears when they made an error or struck out to end a game; and then watched proudly when those same kids learned to deal better with both failure and success in subsequent games.

One other thing. There were way fewer parent fans back in my day, so I guess you could say there were fewer parent problems, but the jeering from the benches was WAY more in your face than what you can do today. You had to have a pretty thick skin.

When I coached travel soccer and they had Silent Sidelines, they passed out lollipops for the parents to suck on to help them keep quiet.  Too funny...

CTbballDad posted:

When I coached travel soccer and they had Silent Sidelines, they passed out lollipops for the parents to suck on to help them keep quiet.  Too funny...

Yep, I've seen that in soccer, too.  Being a soccer parent is interesting:  Coaches at all levels of travel, even 8 year-olds, seem to want parents to say next to nothing.  Clearly parents shouldn't be trying to run the game from the sidelines (and many do try), but in my experience coaches don't want you even to say "nice pass" or "good try" because the coach may think it was a bad pass or the effort was exerted at the wrong thing.  In the coaches' defense, soccer moves very quickly and I'm in the last generation of parents in my part of the country who didn't play the game as kids.  I admit I know even less about soccer than I do baseball.  But I never felt right just watching silently... It's kids playing a game, not grimly serious pre-professional training.  What's more natural at an athletic competition than cheering?  Watch the pros--they celebrate good performances by their teammates, too (in every sport I know of).

The "Matheny Manifesto" is a good example of a well thought out parent meeting guide.  Obviously, he has been "around the block" and more than qualified to lay something like this out to present expectations for his particular group at that particular time.  It is important for a coach to have such a thing and there is plenty in his version that can be (and is) used as a starting reference point.

That said, there are no perfect coaches and there are no perfect sets of parents.  We should all be more realistic with this whole thing.  It should not be required that the coach is "beyond reproach" as some have suggested... set a perfect example in order for the parents to agree to adhere to whatever guidelines are put in place.  Hell, most are volunteers, either completely or to a large extent.  And, like others, the one thing I don't agree with in Matheny's rules is for parents to sit and be quiet.  There is supposed to be cheering at games.  Silence is really boring for everyone.  Yes, there should be helpful guidelines provided at the parent meeting so that those parents so inclined can be less likely to be "that parent".  And, most often, there needs to be specific rules (stay out of the dugout, no verbal coaching your kid when he is hitting, no negative stuff toward other team and umps, etc.).  But, beyond that, let people enjoy being at their kid's games and be themselves.  Hell, that's half the entertainment.  

Most people will naturally cheer for their own team and their own kids, whether positive results are due to positive actions by that team or mistakes by the other team.  No big deal.  Yes, of course, taunting a little kid after a mistake is taking it too far.  

If you ask a kid if he wants his parents cheering, what do you think he is gonna say?  He's a kid (or teen).  Reality is that when it's all over, he'll be glad someone was in the stands cheering for him.  It may be years later but...

It’s funny how different situations change things, though. In my neck of the woods, especially in HS ball, the parents are well behaved until it comes to the rivalry games. I have seen parents say the meanest, stupidest things and it’s usually aimed at a coach or umpire. Travel ball, I have seen coaches who are also HS coaches who maintain a sense of composure in HS games become absolute asses in the travel ball environment. There are probably about as many jerk coaches who cannot toe the line as there are silly parents challenged by the same task.