NAIA vs. JuCo

The majority of the time when people recommend going the Juco route, it's because it's a detour of sorts.  The final destination being a 4-year school.  The general idea is that if you couldn't go straight to the 4-year program of your choice from high school, you can go develop and play for 2 years at a Juco and then leverage that experience to get to the 4-year of your "dreams" or whatever.

NAIA are 4-years schools, so they're the destination; not a detour.  And for many, a detour through a Juco isn't necessary.  Not that one can't transfer an NAIA school and go elsewhere, but it's not the norm.  NAIA's are better for those who want to make things like education, staying put/not uprooting, comfort, continuity, etc priority.  Much of more of a traditional college experience when compared with going the Juco route.

For starters, they don't really exist on the east coast north of the Mason Dixon line. So there is not much to talk about for a good amount of people who hang around here. Same applies to the Rockies. Once you leave the midwest and the south there isn't much until Arizona/Ca.

Second, a lot are smaller schools with heavy religious identities. Baptist schools, methodist, christian etc. Not for everybody

Third and most importantly. They have weak academic profiles. You're going to have a very hard time finding a HA NAIA, odds are there are better academic opportunities closer to home.

Top NAIAs are good, better than the bottom D1s. But the lower half of NAIA baseball will resemble a HS game more than it will a D1 game. This is what a former NAIA coach told me on a recruiting visit at his new D1

I agree with @Danj but I would describe JuCo differently than a detour. I would describe it as a period of development and definition. When (almost all) kids come out of HS it’s guesswork as to what kind of player they will be in college. Call it projection if you want but it’s no more than an educated guess. From the POV of the 4 year school, two years of JuCo ball provides a lot of data and eliminates a lot of the guesswork. From the player’s POV JuCo provides 2 years to bet on themselves and prove the players value to a 4 year school that overlooked them.  Essentially it’s chance to raise their stock in the eyes of 4 year college coaches and prove they belong. Those 2 JuCo years also serve as a reality check for many players as the performance (or lack thereof) of a player when facing JuCo competition is a much better predictor of which level of 4 year college baseball is appropriate than HS or travel ball.

To @pabaseball point

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@adbono posted:

I agree with @Danj but I would describe JuCo differently than a detour. I would describe it as a period of development and definition. When (almost all) kids come out of HS it’s guesswork as to what kind of player they will be in college. Call it projection if you want but it’s no more than an educated guess. From the POV of the 4 year school, two years of JuCo ball provides a lot of data and eliminates a lot of the guesswork. From the player’s POV JuCo provides 2 years to bet on themselves and prove the players value to a 4 year school that overlooked them.  Essentially it’s chance to raise their stock in the eyes of 4 year college coaches and prove they belong. Those 2 JuCo years also serve as a reality check for many players as the performance (or lack thereof) of a player when facing JuCo competition is a much better predictor of which level of 4 year college baseball is appropriate than HS or travel ball.

d1baseball.com and PBR have been spending a lot more time highlighting JUCO.

On twitter, Noah Sharp, unofficial voice of juco commits @_TheJBB

He does a good job promoting Juco,  https://thejbb.net/

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

d1baseball.com and PBR have been spending a lot more time highlighting JUCO.

On twitter, Noah Sharp, unofficial voice of juco commits @_TheJBB

He does a good job promoting Juco,  https://thejbb.net/

It’s progress that D1 baseball & PBR are spending more time covering JuCo. They still don’t do a very good job IMO. With JuCo being designed as a 2 year program there is close to 50% roster turnover every year. Teams can go from good to bad (or vice versa) with the addition or departure of any one recruiting class. Point being, the JuCo world is constantly changing and it’s next to impossible to stay on top of it. As a result media coverage tends to be “all hat and no cattle” other than local outlets. They report old news more than current. Noah Sharp does a lot to promote JuCo baseball thru social media - but he often isn’t well informed. JuCo teams that are savvy on social media feed him information in return for JBB mentioning (promoting) their programs. While I do believe that Sharp’s intentions are good, the material he puts out is inherently biased in favor of the coaches that feed him. Overall, the  JuCo route is very misunderstood and the experience varies tremendously from region to region across America. Roster turnover is high, coaching changes are common, and the experience is very fluid. All these variables make it hard to stay current but at least some people are finally trying. However the most accurate information will always come from players that are currently in the program.

I see you @jaketaylor! How is Blake doing this fall ?

Good fall so far. Thanks for the shout out. Couldn't agree more on the coverage. You have it absolutely nailed!

Agree with most all of the above... I'll add for perspective.  There are tons of Calif. JC players who go on to play at NAIA's all over the country and most do well.  As Adbono says, success at competitive JC level is very much a proving ground and training grounds for playing at a 4 yr somewhere afterward.  Many NAIA programs are a bit of a catch basin for those successful JC players who don't latch on at D1 or D2 schools for any number of reasons.  Those moderate to stronger NAIA baseball programs are typically roster-heavy with JC transfers.

@adbono posted:

It’s progress that D1 baseball & PBR are spending more time covering JuCo. They still don’t do a very good job IMO. With JuCo being designed as a 2 year program there is close to 50% roster turnover every year. Teams can go from good to bad (or vice versa) with the addition or departure of any one recruiting class. Point being, the JuCo world is constantly changing and it’s next to impossible to stay on top of it. As a result media coverage tends to be “all hat and no cattle” other than local outlets. They report old news more than current. Noah Sharp does a lot to promote JuCo baseball thru social media - but he often isn’t well informed. JuCo teams that are savvy on social media feed him information in return for JBB mentioning (promoting) their programs. While I do believe that Sharp’s intentions are good, the material he puts out is inherently biased in favor of the coaches that feed him. Overall, the  JuCo route is very misunderstood and the experience varies tremendously from region to region across America. Roster turnover is high, coaching changes are common, and the experience is very fluid. All these variables make it hard to stay current but at least some people are finally trying. However the most accurate information will always come from players that are currently in the program.

Agree.

"However the most accurate information will always come from players that are currently in the program."

Isn't this the case with any program?

Trust by Verify

NJCAA (24 regions), all with their own politics.

IMHO, it is not the responsibility for NCAA to market JUCO (NJCAA, CCCAA or NWAC).

These organizations have to perform their own marketing and value proposition.

The scouting bureaus (PBR, perfectgame) help facilitate a bridge but their information will be as good as what is provided by the schools (coaches or AD).

Note,  Sharp can be the hype man (lol),  but unless the organizations perform the necessary branding, we have to take what is provided.

Your points are all valid.

Question, what information do you deem important for JUCOs?

@CollegebaseballInsights, important information would be:                                      1: Are they fully funded ?                                 2. Number of scholarships they have ?
3. Tenure of HC ?                                                4. Number of paid Asst. Coaches ?
5. D1, D2, or D3 ?
6. Academic support ? (Study halls, etc.)       7. On campus housing ?
8. Fall roster size  ? (typical) - if possible            9. Spring roster size  ?                                                                 10. Is there a JV program ?
11. Are academic scholarships offered ?
   Off the top of my head, those are things I would ask. Probably left something out.

@adbono posted:

@CollegebaseballInsights, important information would be:                                      1: Are they fully funded ?                                 2. Number of scholarships they have ?
3. Tenure of HC ?                                                4. Number of paid Asst. Coaches ?
5. D1, D2, or D3 ?
6. Academic support ? (Study halls, etc.)       7. On campus housing ?
8. Fall roster size  ? (typical) - if possible            9. Spring roster size  ?                                                                 10. Is there a JV program ?
11. Are academic scholarships offered ?
   Off the top of my head, those are things I would ask. Probably left something out.

Understood.

Questions 1-12 stated above are spot on for any player or parent to ask/consider when selecting potential schools at an level really but one more to add on would be:

13.Do they have a weight room and meal plans?

Most D1 Juco's in Texas at least have 2 coaches who respectfully function like advanced High school coaches with oftentimes smaller budgets. The double edge sword that comes with playing at this level is you have little to no rules on the limit of time you can "work" but at the same time the resources (facilities and equipment) and the knowledge of things traditionally seen as outside of the game (strength training, nutrition  and technology) can be lacking compared to larger schools with bigger budgets.

As someone who played at a major D1 Juco in Texas I highly recommend the "juco route" but it comes with its challenges for sure. This is where guys find out how bad do they really want it. Everything is earned at this level which is in many ways why players that prove themselves at this level are so attractive to four year schools. Want to get stronger ? Nobody’s there to teach  you have to learn it. Need to gain weight? You'll find players taking on nutrition classes because they WANT to not because they HAVE too.

For many players the juco experience forces them to develop themselves and "get it" much sooner than most players who go to a 4 year school out of High school.

It would be helpful to break down pitching vs position players when looking at post-JUCO outcomes. My sense is you see more fairy tale endings with pitchers, and fairy tales cloud the analysis.

About on-campus housing: At some schools (maybe just the ones we bumped into), the coach needs to keep a block of beds occupied. At two schools we visited, I noticed the discrepancy between number of baseball beds and number of lockers in the clubhouse. The coaches explained that in ways that seem honest in retrospect (one took on kids they knew they would redshirt, the other drove some kids off). Fall rosters of 60 and 45, respectively.

Like anything: Ask open-ended questions. While the coaches I talked to were selling their programs, they were also very honest on direct questions. But you need to take off the happy ears and listen/accept.

Junior colleges are public institutions, and you may find that you can get ahold of their budget online.

“Nobody is here to teach you have to learn it” — this is good advice.

@Texas Baseball Resource posted:

Questions 1-12 stated above are spot on for any player or parent to ask/consider when selecting potential schools at an level really but one more to add on would be:

13.Do they have a weight room and meal plans?

Most D1 Juco's in Texas at least have 2 coaches who respectfully function like advanced High school coaches with oftentimes smaller budgets. The double edge sword that comes with playing at this level is you have little to no rules on the limit of time you can "work" but at the same time the resources (facilities and equipment) and the knowledge of things traditionally seen as outside of the game (strength training, nutrition  and technology) can be lacking compared to larger schools with bigger budgets.

As someone who played at a major D1 Juco in Texas I highly recommend the "juco route" but it comes with its challenges for sure. This is where guys find out how bad do they really want it. Everything is earned at this level which is in many ways why players that prove themselves at this level are so attractive to four year schools. Want to get stronger ? Nobody’s there to teach  you have to learn it. Need to gain weight? You'll find players taking on nutrition classes because they WANT to not because they HAVE too.

For many players the juco experience forces them to develop themselves and "get it" much sooner than most players who go to a 4 year school out of High school.

Agree 100%

@adbono posted:

It’s progress that D1 baseball & PBR are spending more time covering JuCo. They still don’t do a very good job IMO. With JuCo being designed as a 2 year program there is close to 50% roster turnover every year. Teams can go from good to bad (or vice versa) with the addition or departure of any one recruiting class. Point being, the JuCo world is constantly changing and it’s next to impossible to stay on top of it. As a result media coverage tends to be “all hat and no cattle” other than local outlets. They report old news more than current. Noah Sharp does a lot to promote JuCo baseball thru social media - but he often isn’t well informed. JuCo teams that are savvy on social media feed him information in return for JBB mentioning (promoting) their programs. While I do believe that Sharp’s intentions are good, the material he puts out is inherently biased in favor of the coaches that feed him. Overall, the  JuCo route is very misunderstood and the experience varies tremendously from region to region across America. Roster turnover is high, coaching changes are common, and the experience is very fluid. All these variables make it hard to stay current but at least some people are finally trying. However the most accurate information will always come from players that are currently in the program.

The bolded is exactly why i don't get the whole love affair with JuCo. not that it is a right or wrong I personally just don't get it.

@old_school posted:

The bolded is exactly why i don't get the whole love affair with JuCo. not that it is a right or wrong I personally just don't get it.

It provides an alternative.

For example, here is the player attrition rate for Region 5 for the 2021, with the reason for the attrition.

Note, included in the transfer out are players that moved to a 4yr school another 2 yr school

e.g McLennan has 16 players from 2020 team move to 4yr, 5 players transfer to another juco

Player Attrition by Position

@old_school posted:

The bolded is exactly why i don't get the whole love affair with JuCo. not that it is a right or wrong I personally just don't get it.

I have the same feeling. The other thing I also never really understood was that if the top jucos are that good (many say they're better than most D1s and can compete with the P5s) - why risk getting buried on a 45+ man depth chart? Why not just go to the D1 to begin with?

I think jucos are great for a lot of reasons. I also shake my head at what it's propped up to be sometimes.

Because you want to play right away and/or have a chance to be drafted.  At son's P5, I would say there will only be about 2-4 true incoming freshmen that will get any significant playing time this year.  That is the case on most teams in the SEC and almost every competitive 4 year school on every level.  So many players will go to a juco and get bigger, faster, stronger and get to play right away.  For many it is also about getting locked in academically at a smaller school before making the jump.  I don't think the average player is ready for the academic rigors of 4 year college sports activities, social activiities/distractions, and the academic stuff.