Naive newbie, questions about exposure and PG

With the exception of pitching velocity, all of the data that you spoke of is obtained at a PG Showcase.  So while those players have done PG Tournaments, they have not done showcases.

Pitcher velocity at tournaments is gathered most of the time.

This ^^^

The players you have looked up have participated in a PG tournament with their team.  The one not listed has never played in a PG tournament.  Those with specific stats, other than pitching velocity, have participated in a PG showcase.  It is an individual event that costs in the neighborhood of $600.  When you participate in one of these, you will get your pop times noted (if you are a catcher), 60 times, velocity of the various pitches you throw, as well as a write up evaluating your baseball skills along with a "Grade" on a scale from 1-10.

Hope this helps.

Since your son is just in 7th grade, you may want to take him to a showcase event just to observe sometime if there is one in your area.  It doesn't even have to be a PG event, as many showcase events are conducted in a similar format.  PG events will be the most organized, but many showcases conduct the same assessment testing (pop times, 60 times, pitch velocity, etc. as noted above).

You do not have to go to a showcase to be recruited, however.   If you son's travel team plays in PG tournaments, write-ups are done on players with good plays/hits, and velocity is recorded for pitchers.  There is a PG rep at every game at tournaments.

You could hold off doing a showcase based on the interest he gets, but be sure he has something to showcase if he goes.

Playing for a 6A high school doesn't mean too much in the recruiting world.  It is the travel teams that play in the PG tournaments.  Individuals do the showcase and get a PG rating.  (there are exceptions for the very exceptional player)

My son would be one of the ones with no stats on his PG profile as he has never been to a single showcase. He received a scholarship to play D1 ACC baseball next year as a RHP.

I am going to second what RJM said. 

As your son gets older and continues to grow, you will have a better feel for where your son fits. He will have a better idea what profile school he is interested in. Pg is a wonderful organization a does many good things. But that does not mean every player should go to one of their showcases. 

Once your son has a target profile for the type of school he wants to attend and those schools recruit a lot from the PG showcases, then attend. But if the target Schools do not recruit form PG then go where they are. 

For instance if he turns out to be academically gifted player a headfirst or Stanford camp might be a better fit. 

There is no one size fits all as far as particular showcases. When he gets older put together a list of target schools and find out where they recruit their players. 

And how do you find out where they recruit their players from?

Ask.   I can't answer for BLD, but that is the part you kind of have to figure out by asking the coaches, word of mouth, lots of roster research, HSBBWeb, and trial and error.  After a while you get a sense of what is going on in the marketplace....it is a marketplace.  You'll begin to see top (young) recruits committing after the top PG showcases.  Let's face it PG is the premiere organization for bringing recruiters and recruits together.   It only makes sense that MOST recruits/recruiters will be at these events.  After these events, there is a trickle down effect, and you begin to understand where your son sits in the pecking order of talent.  

It is very hard to catch a coaches eye or attention.  In almost all cases, the coaches will have an abundance of recruits to choose from.   My best advice is to figure out what events your son will stand out relative to the other recruits.   One of the first questions I would ask a coach would be what events do they go to, and what is the profile of the student you are looking for.  That is a huge tell that you can determine where to spend your time and money.  JMO.

He's never pitched at a PG tournament?

94 from the mound is a pretty important "stat".

But your son DOES have a pitching speed recorded on the PG website and a ranking because he has played in PG games.  These catchers had nothing but their name.  Not even a speed on their throw downs.

If Pitching speeds are recorded in a PG tourney why aren't throw down speeds recorded for catchers?

PG scouts are at every game played in a tournament.  They sit behind home plate and score the game on game changer (or something similar).  They have a radar gun and record the speed of every pitch and that is all they do.  No other velocities are recorded.  If you want infield velocity, outfield velocity, catcher velocity or pop times, you must attend an individual showcase.

Also, a PG rating is different than a PG grade.  PG does ratings (ie. Top 100) based on all players they have seen, whether or not they have played in any type of PG event.  You may see a highly rated kid who has never played in a PG tournament or showcase as the PG scouts sometimes attend non PG events.  A PG grade is a scale from 1-10.  These will only be done on players who have attended a PG showcase.

Hope this helps clarify a little.

In baseball, pitching reigns supreme. In pitching, velo reigns supreme. There's usually only one person scoring the game and recording pitches at these tournaments. That's probably about all that they can handle.

It would be interesting to find out IF Trackman data (which i think is super cool and useful) could be accessed on a pay per use basis to track not only velo &spin rates but bat speed, exit speed and pop times for the casual fan? Maybe a VIP season pass?

Shoveit4Ks - sounds like a good upsell. I would pay a reasonable fee for that info.

As Fenway explained Ask. Once you have a school profile, Identify the schools that fit that profile and contact the coach. Or talk to players. The baseball world is pretty small. When my son was going through recruiting and we had identified the schools, we talked to people we trusted.Many either knew someone who went to one of his target schools or know someone who knew someone. Sometimes your High School coach may know. Your travel coach may know. But chances are you will know someone who knows someone that can give you the answers. The key is you must trust the person, that the answers are coming from. 

For my son it turned out to be an invite only showcase here in Ohio, called the Buckeye Scout, and another invite only put on by Walsh Jesuit. The Buckeye Scout has now been replaced by PBR, but the Walsh Jesuit Showcase is still going strong. 

The coach or recruiting coordinator are usually your best resources though. 

CaCO3girl

Many, many kids in our area (Midwest) go on to play college ball without playing PG, thus they have no info in the PG system.

As far as our experience.  We have yet to attend PG.  It’s on our travel teams schedule for this fall and next spring.  In spite of that our son is starting to get some interest from some schools.  As he is a soph they can’t contact us directly yet, but we have received a few phone numbers, email addresses and cell phones as well as have heard from some of his coaches that a few schools have him on their radar.  We are being told by some independent knowledgeable folks (ie not our teams coaches or anyone with any financial interest in my son) that he is “projecting” mid D1 right now and could end up even better then that.

How did all this happen without PG?  It’s through his travel team.  We are on a team that is geared towards getting kids into college ball and not run by daddy’s who need to win every game.  In fact none of our coaches have a son on the team nor are they paid.  Many of them have been through the program over the years and many come back to help out and “give back” to the younger kids.  Out of the last 8 graduating classes (2 to 3 teams every year) out of our program. Out of those 8 classes we average 2 draft picks a year.  In addition over the years we have had 33 draft picks, 250 kids go on to play college ball, and 133 D1 players.  Not a bad track record.  A lot of these kids did not attend a PG showcase and only played in a PG tourney so they don’t have much in the way of stats in the PG database. 

What we do have is a program that has many contacts into the Midwest colleges and is known for finding and training good talent.   In addition they have built the reputation of the program to a high level.  They run “private” showcases in which only our program’s kids are invited.  They average about 20 to 30 college coaches (mostly mid-D1) showing up at these events.  Finally they play in an area league that is affiliated with a local scout association.  The league is closed to most teams but includes similar programs to ours.  Each week they publish a list on the website as well as email out to a number of schools and mlb scouts which kids will be playing in which games.

I guess in my long winded way what I am getting at is, I would take a look at the programs in your area and try to find one that is setup to get the kids exposure.  Many of the programs will tell you that they have placed kids, but sometimes they play with the numbers.  For instance there are a couple of kids in our area who are now playing MLB ball.  You can find each one listed on about 4 or 5 different programs websites. For the most part they played in these programs when they were very young and they were no help into getting them into the MLB or college.  Do your research and find a program that has good contacts and a solid track record for placing kids.

CaCO3girl,

since we have talked privately I know you son is in an outstanding organization. They have a proven track record of getting thier players seen. i would count on them to put him in all the right places in front of teh right people. That being said. Keep talking to the coaches and of course as you know lots of research and marketing your son as a family.

I think PG is huge where you live and therefore is what you hear most. In Ohio it is PBR, In others I am sure it is someone else

Thank you for that explanation Joes87, it makes sense.  To clarify, we are in GA which is very close to Florida (Ft Myers and Jupiter) and the new headquarters for PG at Emerson/Lake Point.  I think that is why PG is so prevalent locally which is why I was shocked none of these young men had scores, but I see now you have to pay $600 plus to get a pop time recorded officially. 

I imagine Tums and Alla-Seltzer both have booths at these events...$600 for a day or two of testing that could affect your entire life depending on how you do...and if you don't work to the best of your ability you have to try and find another $600...wow...these poor kids.  I know the exposure aspect is well worth the money but that pressure must be amazing!

There's a lot of pressure at your first high school tryout, your first varsity AB or start, a fly ball your way for the final out of a play-off game, etc. These guys will face pressure situations as long as they play. I think the financial piece is bigger for parents than for the kids.

IMO, there's very little risk with showcasing other than spending your money poorly. A bad performance today will not negate a great performance later. For example, if a college coach pops your son at 1.9 at the WWBA, he's not going to care that he has a 2.2 on his PG profile. In the end, a coach is going to have to see him play and like what he sees. Showcasing (and showcase stats) might make the difference between getting that first look and not, but it's just one factor in a very complex equation (for those who don't throw 94).

"My son looked up the High School Roster wanting to get an idea of pop times and 60 times for the catchers at his high school....NONE of them have a single PG score or 60 time or speed.....etc...so the question he had was how do you play for a highly competitive 6A school and not have any data on the PG website?"

First of all, know that there are a few different options for viewing PG web site content.  There's what anyone can see, and then there are a few tiers of subscription (more info = higher price).  If you're not a subscriber, there's going to be data that you don't get to see.  So it's possible PG has data on the players you looked up, even if you didn't get to see it.

Secondly, there are literally thousands of high schools in this country.  PG has become the go-to sponsor for events that concentrate talent into event locations so that players can be evaluated effectively and in large numbers.  The whole point of that is to attract guys to centrallized events to make that feasible.  I don't think there will ever be a time when any organization wanders the countryside scoring players at individual HS games.  So if you happen to live in an area where guys don't hit the travel ball circuit, don't be surprised if you don't see them rated or ranked.

I am a big PG booster but I would never suggest that you HAVE TO use them to go through recruiting.  I do think the odds are that the path will be easier if you do.  But then, that all presupposes that you have college level talent, and if your son's in 7th grade, I'd towel off for now.  At the rate things change in this area, by the time he's in 10th grade, the landscape may well have changed more than you think possible.

"Pressure is playing for ten dollars when you don't have a dime in your pocket"

Lee Trevino

You have gotten some good advice.  

One does not need to attend a PG showcase to get a ranking, or get a college scholarship, especially if they play on a good travel team in an area where there is lots of exposure. I know where Shoveit4ks son will be headed and it is not far from where you live, but I will bet they saw him at a PG tournament and that 94 helped seal the deal.  He is also from a state where they like to recruit from  hoping that they can steal them away from the big programs there.

I think that you are not going to like my response, but I think that you need to not worry about this stuff at this time. So many things change and your son has a few years to go until he gets to the age that these stats (and ratings) mean something, whether it be velocity,60 or pop time, that is quite a ways away.  Don't pressure him with this stuff, go about your business and let him enjoy the game and keep learning skills he will need as he matures. 

Dont get me wrong I am a huge supporter of PG,  tournaments and showcases. But everything these days cost lots of money and the best advice I can give is that as your son enters HS, based upon his skill level, you should begin to make a plan.  Since you live in an area very close to ACC/SEC programs you may begin to do research and plan on attending games. This will give you an idea where your son may fall in the talent pool, but again, wait until the time is right. I dont suggest a PG tournament until they make a varsity roster and I always suggest it when a player needs to see where he falls within his peer group. I found this to be the turning point where son realized that he could make a D1 roster. That was as a young sophmore.  Now I know that the recruiting game begins earlier, but for most players it isn't until mid HS when it really counts.

As far as pressure, there is probably more on mom or dad than the player. Begin to take your son to inexpensive showcases in your area when he reaches HS, to get an idea how it works, for him and YOU. Maybe some college showcase camps.  

And keep in mind that a PG rating from a showcase tells a lot about a player through a scouts eyes, not yours or mine or anyone elses and for some college coaches, that may or may not be of significance to play at their program.

I think some people are missing the importance of a PG tourney (not a showcase).  My son played in the 17U WWBA event this past summer.  He was a MIF/RHP.  He did a nice job in the IF...and made the all tourney team with is bat.  He was also a reliever...behind a 6'5 lefty who was in the low 90's.  The lefty had 40-50 D1's from all over the eastern half of the US watching him....he would throw 5 innings...then my son got to come in (he was a 5'11/160 RHP throwing 86).  He got a half inning with ALOT of scouts before they all took off...lol.  He threw very well...but RHP throwing 86 are everywhere at that event.  A couple Ivy's saw him...and contacted his coach with some fairly serious interest....but really no more D1's.  You really need to know "what" your son has before you decide "where" he should go to showcase himself.  My son got plenty of interest from midwest D1's before committing...but wouldn't have gotten a sniff from a southern school as a 2015 RHP who was hitting 87.  Yes, PG events are great...but you really have to be somebody to make the most of their events. 

TPM, I am not sure what I can do other than be educated about these things because my son is asking and looking.  His coach has a son who is a 2016 elite catcher fielding offers from multiple D1's and having home visits from MLB, this kid joins our 12u practices some times and so while a normal 12u kid has never heard of a PG showcase my son knows coach canceled practice last week because he was in FL at a showcase with his son....who plays the position my son wants to play...in other words he is being exposed to the 17u circus at 12u so I feel like I can't just stick my head in the sand and tell him not to worry about that stuff or look at that stuff for 3 years.

Is it really so wrong to let the kid look around at the recruiting circuit and set a goal for himself?  He wants to know what it takes to make his high school team, I told him about the PG website so he at least had an accurate source of stats to look at, is that so bad?  He is a very logical kid, he asked if he could go participate in a showcase (yes in 7th grade) and I spelled it out for him that he couldn't go until he had $600 worth of something to actually SHOW...so he wants to know what having something to show looks like, hence looking up the stats.

As for not playing in any PG tourneys until he makes Varsity, I can't control that.  PG tourneys are held at East Cobb and Emerson/Lake Point, both are under an hour from where we live and we have already been told we will be in at least 1 this year and multiple next year.

All I can say is we don't radar his pitching, we don't have a 60 yard area measured off with stop watches, and we as parents do not measure his pop time, although the coach has.  *shrug*  I'm just trying to learn myself so I can at least call bologna when he says something crazy like let's go to a showcase!

It doesn't cost anything to watch most showcases.  We actually see a lot of young kids that come out to watch.  If there is one scheduled close to you, go investigate. Might clear things up a bit.

It's not at all a waste of time to start familiarizing yourself with how this works. However, keep in mind how quickly the recruiting game is evolving. It was just a year or two ago that posts telling stories of freshmen verbaling to D1 schools were simply shrugged off as extremely unique cases. Fast forward a couple of years and you see some schools routinely offering ninth graders and now moving into the eighth grade classes. Now, I'm not saying you need to be ready that early. Just aware that it happens. Some of the saddest cases I've seen are guys who are marginal talents - good enough to play high level college ball, but not so outstanding that they're national legends - who have no idea what to do. By the time they get serious about recruiting they find that there are few spots in their class left. Being overprepared exceptionally early is by far better than being underprepared too late. Keeping yourself updated isn't a bad idea.

CaCo3girl,

my son was in a similar situation at your sons age. I would have to agree with TPM, stats won't matter until HS. But to get the best stats you can when he gets there I would recommend as many training opportunities that your wallet can afford. My son attended the catchers clinic at FSU, two summers in a row prior to his freshman year in HS. He turned into one of the best defensive catchers in our district. I would highly recommend the Mike Martin Baseball School.

I agree, root. In addition to the roster problem, there are limited opportunities to get yourself in front of the right schools. The later you figure out the right venues, the fewer your opportunities to get to them. I found out after the fact about several annual events that would have been great fits for my son. They were the kind where "next year" is too late.

The farther away from the baseball hotbeds, the more planning one has to do to get noticed. One or more of those things may be to do a major showcase or a major tourney.

No question about it.

However, when you live in an area that regularly turns out lots of talented kids, and your player is really good, sometimes all you have to do is show up.

As I said, its not anything one has to worry about at this time for both player and parent.

Check this out:

http://msstatebaseball1.blogsp...nts-and-signees.html

Note that Mississippi State already has commitments from (3) 2017's (all were offered last year as freshment), (1) 2018s and (1) 2019 (that's a kid who just started 8th grade).

roothog,

Thanks for posting that, I hadn't seen it before. Nice to see "RedFish" son on that list. Not all the major baseball programs mention the PG rankings, but if they did they would look about the same as Mississippi State, obviously with different PG ranks..