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My sons, ages 11 and 14, are both pitchers. They've done quite well, but, they would like to receive professional instruction, and advance their skill set.  What kind of questions might you suggest asking a pitching instructor that we might be considering; I'm hoping to establish a long term relationship with the instructor, but, would like to do my due diligence by having my boys take a lesson from a few instructors and asking some interview questions, before making a final choice.  It's a big financial commitment; so, I'd like to be thoughtful and receive a good value.  In addition, we live in the Plano/Allen/McKinney area; so, if you can suggest anyone in particular, that would be great as well. Thank you in advance.    

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This is a tough one.  My best advice would be to look for one that will click with your kid.  My older son worked with a coach that had a good reputation.  While he knew his stuff technically he was very grouchy and did not click with my son.  My son was in HS when we starting looking for a new coach (his other one moved out of state).  

We got lucky and happened to meet guy who worked in same bldg at hitting Coach. He was very patient and waited to teach my son curve ball at age 14 instead of earlier because he wanted to make sure his FB and change up were down first. The kids who were throwing curve ball after curve ball in LL that we knew r no longer playing, or have not advanced very well. Coincidence?  maybe. I've seen guys teaching curve to 9 yr olds and people will write back and disagree w me but IMO that's too young, get FB and change up down and good location before u add third pitch. I thought the guy was just taking their money. 

Ask around and see who others r using in your area and get good recommendation. 

Originally Posted by tanndonn:

You'll hopefully get some good suggestions. Considering your location I would start with Linty Ingram at Centerfield Academy in Plano. There may not be a better pitching instructor within 100 miles. He's got some serious credibility. Good Luck.

 

I agree Linty is the best around, but he no longer does one on one lessons. He does group workouts now. Not that it's not a quality workout but its not for everybody.

 

Originally Posted by playball2011:

We got lucky and happened to meet guy who worked in same bldg at hitting Coach. He was very patient and waited to teach my son curve ball at age 14 instead of earlier because he wanted to make sure his FB and change up were down first. The kids who were throwing curve ball after curve ball in LL that we knew r no longer playing, or have not advanced very well. Coincidence?  maybe. I've seen guys teaching curve to 9 yr olds and people will write back and disagree w me but IMO that's too young, get FB and change up down and good location before u add third pitch. I thought the guy was just taking their money. 

Ask around and see who others r using in your area and get good recommendation. 

There's nothing wrong with a kid throwing a properly thrown curve ball at any age. In fact, if you look at arm deceleration a curve is less abusive to the arm than a fast ball. The problem is most young kids don't throw the curve properly and their team coaches can't recognize failing mechanics.

 

I taught my son how to throw a curve at ten. It was a better solution than him trying to teach himself in the backyard. Knowing how to throw a curve doesn't mean a kid has to throw it a lot. A little kid throwing five curves in a game isn't going to kill his arm. 

Originally Posted by RJM:
Originally Posted by playball2011:

We got lucky and happened to meet guy who worked in same bldg at hitting Coach. He was very patient and waited to teach my son curve ball at age 14 instead of earlier because he wanted to make sure his FB and change up were down first. The kids who were throwing curve ball after curve ball in LL that we knew r no longer playing, or have not advanced very well. Coincidence?  maybe. I've seen guys teaching curve to 9 yr olds and people will write back and disagree w me but IMO that's too young, get FB and change up down and good location before u add third pitch. I thought the guy was just taking their money. 

Ask around and see who others r using in your area and get good recommendation. 

There's nothing wrong with a kid throwing a properly thrown curve ball at any age. In fact, if you look at arm deceleration a curve is less abusive to the arm than a fast ball. The problem is most young kids don't throw the curve properly and their team coaches can't recognize failing mechanics.

 

I taught my son how to throw a curve at ten. It was a better solution than him trying to teach himself in the backyard. Knowing how to throw a curve doesn't mean a kid has to throw it a lot. A little kid throwing five curves in a game isn't going to kill his arm. 

Good for you but way too many kids learn the wrong way. Then they fall in love w it and use it too much-just watch LL World Series. Chances r a lot of those kids r not studs yrs later. When they rely on curve too early they never fully dev a great FB or curve. I've seen it more times then I can count. Just played HS game against P who was stud in 8th gr/freshman and now as a SR he's struggling w location, and has erratic FB. Never saw a change up from him.  When he was younger he was all the talk about town. My guess is he'll lucky if the local D2 team takes him. 

I've had 10 yr olds tell me in the classroom they throw it A LOT. You see these coaches who think winning a little kid tournament is all that matters and they  let them throw it a lot. Again look at some of the LL WS games. They r not throwing 5 a game. 

i still say why risk it and teach it later than younger.

Get a referral from a good Baseball Coach. 2013 took lessons from former MLB Pitcher, Asst. High School Coach (Pitching Instructor) and then we received a phone call from a recently retired / Hall of Fame Coach, telling us that if 2013 were his son, and given a 100 mile radius, he'd have him working with ##### as his personal Pitching Instructor. 2013 loved working with this guy. Given the proper exercises for a Pitcher. As well as routine for before and after pitching. Shown how to use his strong lower half to his advantage.  Made adjustments,  perfected pitches, quickly increased velocity, and built confidence. Never allowed to throw a Curveball,  until Instructors said his body was now developed to. It shouldn't go by age alone. MLB Pitcher really liked 2013, and would make him drop and give him push-ups, if he even asked to try throwing a Curveball, before he'd been told that he was ready to. He said that unfortunately,  too many Coaches are more concerned with their records / jobs, than the health of a players arm. And when a player continues to throw improperly,  and builds muscle memory, they will revert back to their improper mechanics,  especially when fatigued,  creating more chance of injury. He said that under those situations,  a player won't have an arm left, for whatever his next level could be. Also had a previous Pitcher from same HS, whom had coached son one Summer in Travel Ball, actually came to us, to warn us about not allowing HS Coaches to overuse him. 2013 was recruited as a Pitcher. But, he goes back to see / work with that same Instructor that he was referred to, every chance he gets, and will over the Summer. PM me for contact info, if you live in IL.
Last edited by Shelby

Playball ... I'm not advocating a preteen throwing a curve. I'm tired of people improperly stating the curve is why a kid's baseball career ended early because it's dangerous to throw. It may be dangerous to throw a curve improperly, just like any other improperly thrown pitch. With the number of TJ surgeries it appears just pitching may be hazardous to arm health. Afterall, it's an unnatural motion.

Originally Posted by Shelby:
Get a referral from a good Baseball Coach. 2013 took lessons from former MLB Pitcher, Asst. High School Coach (Pitching Instructor) and then we received a phone call from a recently retired / Hall of Fame Coach, telling us that if 2013 were his son, and given a 100 mile radius, he'd have him working with ##### as his personal Pitching Instructor. 2013 loved working with this guy. Given the proper exercises for a Pitcher. As well as routine for before and after pitching. Shown how to use his strong lower half to his advantage.  Made adjustments,  perfected pitches, quickly increased velocity, and built confidence. Never allowed to throw a Curveball,  until Instructors said his body was now developed to. It shouldn't go by age alone. MLB Pitcher really liked 2013, and would make him drop and give him push-ups, if he even asked to try throwing a Curveball, before he'd been told that he was ready to. He said that unfortunately,  too many Coaches are more concerned with their records / jobs, than the health of a players arm. And when a player continues to throw improperly,  and builds muscle memory, they will revert back to their improper mechanics,  especially when fatigued,  creating more chance of injury. He said that under those situations,  a player won't have an arm left, for whatever his next level could be. Also had a previous Pitcher from same HS, whom had coached son one Summer in Travel Ball, actually came to us, to warn us about not allowing HS Coaches to overuse him. 2013 was recruited as a Pitcher. But, he goes back to see / work with that same Instructor that he was referred to, every chance he gets, and will over the Summer. PM me for contact info, if you live in IL.


thats a great instructor

Thanks to all for your suggestions; between this forum and talking to other folks, I've now come up with 3 possibilities in my area.  They are:  Linty Ingram at Centerfield; Jason Jennings in Frisco; and Brad Furnish at DBAT.  Does anyone have any information/endorsements they can offer, or other names?  

Originally Posted by RJM:

Playball ... I'm not advocating a preteen throwing a curve. I'm tired of people improperly stating the curve is why a kid's baseball career ended early because it's dangerous to throw. It may be dangerous to throw a curve improperly, just like any other improperly thrown pitch. With the number of TJ surgeries it appears just pitching may be hazardous to arm health. Afterall, it's an unnatural motion.

Great reply. Every study done on the subject indicates that curves (and this isn't isolated just to those people consider "correctly thrown") are not the source of arm injuries and, in fact, at least two of those studies conclude that the force behind a fastball is far more injurious to the arm of a youth pitcher. My own son has been throwing about 20% breaking pitches since he was 10 despite the fact he has always had a well above average fastball for the very reason that it gives his arm and elbow a break from the rigors of the fast ball. If a pitching instructor holds off on teaching the curve until a later age because he wants his students to master the fb and cu first, I have no problem with it. If he holds off because he's following the conventional wisdom that curve balls are bad, he may be doing the kid a disservice.

Now, I will hear quotes from Andrews (mainly the "no curves until they shave") against the curve. His own organization conducted a 10 year youth pitcher study that bagan with the premise that curves are a factor in youth pitching injuries. the surprise conclusion was that there was absolutely no coorelation between curve balls and injuries. Andrews, however, continues to preach no curves until after puberty. However, his logic and reasoning have changed. Originally his advise was based on arm damage to growth plates. His reasoning now on why teacing the curve ball early is something along the lines of some strange logic. He contends that those pitchers who learn the curve ball early in their development experience considerably more success. That success leads to those pitchers being overused at early ages, so it would be better to be mediocre at a young age so as to avoid the temptations over overuse.

As for the original question...the OP has gotten several great recommendations and is probably set to go, so this is for other who would have the same question. here would be my advise (much of it learned the hard expensive way). DO NOT base your decision on playing credentials. I constantly here parents bragging about the experience of their kids instructors. It's never based on coaching success. It's always about Johnnie being with instructor x who is an ex AAA pitcher, etc. Look more at his students and what they are doing.Don't fall into the trap of choosing an instructor you can brag about. There are plenty of good instructors out there with little to no upper-level playing experience and plenty of ex-major leaguers teaching bad stuff.

A few years ago, I was looking for a pitching instructor for my son (despite the fact that I am one myself - hoping to avoid conflict). The first was a long time instructor with some ml experience. I'm not sure if he was any good or not, because he didn't do anything. Had my kid throw to him, but stopped every third pitch or so to chew the fat with guys passing by the cage. The second was an ex-mlb'er with a long decent-but-not-great-career. Very good guy who even became a personal friend. He was with this guy for an entire off-season. It took a year to unteach everything he taught. When I am asked for recommendations, I'm more interested inlooking at guys he's instructed in the past and how they are doing. I would never commit to more than one lesson. Go and watch that lesson. Thirty minutes should be enough to know if you want to come back.

Two themes seem to be working here, recommended Pitching Coaches and when to throw a curve ball

 

i believe Paul Ahearne of the Dallas Stars Baseball Club and Mike Bacsik, Sr are the two best pitching instructors in DFW

 

I personally heard Dr Tom House answer the question, "When should someone start throwing a curve ball?"  Toms response was, " It depends on mechanics. I've seen 8 year olds with perfect mechanics that are ready to throw a curve ball, and I've seen 18 year olds that have no business throwing a curve ball due to poor mechanics"

 

in years of observing kid pitchers, seems that a curve ball shouldn't be tried until the Pitcher has command and feel of a 4 seam FB, 2 seam FB AND a Change Up.

Pitching instructors can be a great way for kids to develop.  Finding the right coach can be a bit tricky though.  I agree that not always the ones with the longest resumes are the best but make sure they give you the accurate playing information.  Some instructors will let you assume they played at a higher level than they did.  Here are some more tips on finding a good instructor.

http://baseballminded.com/what...baseball-instructor/

My only conditions for a pitching coach where I live in a very rural part of SE:

1.  Is he less than a 3-hour drive?

2.  Does he still have a pulse?

Perhaps the biggest reason son is looking forward to playing college baseball is to have 24/7/365 access to a pitching coach. 

Finding a pitching coach that son can get to consistently has been the #1 issue for him in his development, or non-development.  Not blaming, just stating. 

 

too.tall posted:

Suppose you find a good coach but he wants the parents to sign a one year contract?  Is that reasonable?

 

Maybe for billing purposes and with a credit card being used, there is an "understanding" that for this "year" they will be charging your credit card on a monthly basis for a year?  Makes things easier for some of these now "big time" pitching gym/facilities to budget, and provide a more reliable service for their customers.  Found one baseball gym last summer near son's boarding school, and we hoped he'd be able to get there by Metro (75-mins one-way) during the school year.  Guys running it have young families and a pretty good monthly nut they are responsible for (rent on industrial warehouse facility, indoor turf field area, serious gym equipment, weights, whole 9-Yards, etc) so I understood when they requested we E-sign a credit card charging agreement.  My card was charged each month, and would be charged until like June 1, 2017.

By October it was apparent son could not be making the 2.5 hour round trips by Metro to get there.  He was not using the gym nor the pitching coaches.  Money down the drain.  I notified them that we'd no longer be doing it, they had no problem.

Perhaps the "contract" you are referencing might be more of an "agreement" for credit card charges?  We cancelled.  They had no issue.  Also, credit card company said that if they had an issue?  To just cancel the card they were charging and get a new one.  Just my experience.  

One quick, final story.  A few years ago a young baseball coach, mid-20s, rolled into town and took our Little League world by storm.  Kids loved him.  Charismatic.   NOT FROM OUR AREA (red flag).  Knew baseball  though.  Had all the TJ scars and accompanying stories of his climb up the baseball ladder and fall from it.  After my own vetting (which I'll admit was more of a "sniff test"), and in an effort to help the young man out I purchased 10-lessons in advance from him at maybe $400?  Two lessons in he was arrested for Trafficking in Opium.  Gone.  And so was my $320.

Last edited by #1 Assistant Coach
too.tall posted:

Suppose you find a good coach but he wants the parents to sign a one year contract?  Is that reasonable?

 

I would never sign a one year contract with an instructor.  Kids are temperamental by nature and pitching coaches are human.  There is no guarantee the two will click long term. I have seen a pitching coach be great for beginner things and then poof when it got more advances the kid and the coach couldn't understand each other.

From my experience finding a good instructor isn't just about their history, or their skill, it is finding an instructor that absolutely clicks with the kid in question.  This could mean it is a former MLB guy or even a guy who played in high school only but has studied the game.

1. Ask yourself why are you really getting an instructor?

a. to be a friend to your kid?

b. to tell your friends that you know a former MLB player?

c. to help him win games this season?

d. teach him the grips and general approach to pitching?

e. improve his velocity?

2. Find an instructor that answers #1

I know lots of kids that went with 1b. and their kids never threw 80mph in HS. But their Dads were happy.

Many opt for 1a.

1d. might be best for young ages if you don't know much about pitching.

1e. would be best for HS age kid.  And only then if the instructor uses a radar gun to measure improvement. (But be aware that speeds can improve 8-10 mph annually without any training prior to HS)

Last edited by SultanofSwat
too.tall posted:

Suppose you find a good coach but he wants the parents to sign a one year contract?  Is that reasonable?

 

Not a chance.  You start slow with a few lessons to find out if there's a mutual fit.  After a few lessons maybe you buy a 6 or 10 pack of lessons.  What sort of off season program does the instructor have access to at his facility?  What tools does he like to use?  Bands, weighted balls, velopro harness, velocity belts???  So many tools out there...  There are specific protocols to follow for each of these; the player must be mature enough to understand what he's required to do so he has reasonable gains and prevents injuries.

Before you commit to a pack of lessons, how accessible is the instructor?   

Gov posted:
too.tall posted:

Suppose you find a good coach but he wants the parents to sign a one year contract?  Is that reasonable?

 

Before you commit to a pack of lessons, how accessible is the instructor?  

Yeah, like will he be in prison in 4-weeks?

"One quick, final story.  A few years ago a young baseball coach, mid-20s, rolled into town and took our Little League world by storm.  Kids loved him.  Charismatic.   NOT FROM OUR AREA (red flag).  Knew baseball  though.  Had all the TJ scars and accompanying stories of his climb up the baseball ladder and fall from it.  After my own vetting (which I'll admit was more of a "sniff test"), and in an effort to help the young man out I purchased 10-lessons in advance from him at maybe $400?  Two lessons in he was arrested for "Trafficking in Opiates. "   Heroin, actually.  Gone.  And so was my $320."

Last edited by #1 Assistant Coach

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