Need help on arm action

Just looked at your videos. The biggest thing I see relating to arm action is that Bard,s capable of a greater degree of external rotation than you are. You don't actually get parallel like Bard does. I attempted to copy the video's and then post here of both of you at your highest degree of external rotation. I obviously was not able to do it. Take a look at your video and Bard's at the point where you throwing hand and forearm are layed over backwards and elbow is pointing to the plate. External rotation! There's quite a difference. I believe it has an impact on your arm speed because there is not the level of "whipping" action that Bard has. I think at least one aspect to consider is creating a greater degree of flexibilty, and strength in external rotation. You also might want to consider decelerator, strength and flexibility areas. You can Google "external rotation" and come up with lots of info on shoulder flexibility and strength. One other thing I just thought of...Have you ever had shoulder problems? It's possible the lack of external rotation is related to an old injury. Even if it something seemed insignificant, it could be related.Good luck.
Just my opinion here thank you.

quote:

Notice how my arm kind of get stuck before it goes up?

Just spitballing here, but... maybe if you mentally focus on getting your hand up, vs. your elbow.

legendscoach, you stated what my direct problem is. I'm not sure that I was clear about that, but I have noticed that my ER needs to be increased. I was talking about that one part in my arm action because that's the biggest difference I see between mine and his arm action. And I have never had an injury of any kind, other than soreness associated with an outing.

SultanofSwat,I have been trying to focus on getting my hand up, but for some reason it is delayed. That's why I have tried asking on here for drills or something.


My goal here is to incorporate maximum external rotation into my motion. In my opinion, I believe everything else look fine. I just see that glaring flaw.

With all due respect to Sultanofswat..... the problem is exactly as you stated.... lack of good external rotation. I will try to locate some online stuff that you can review. I think that will be easier on everyone. There is legitimate information out there on improving ER.

I have found stretches that I do. I have been doing them for about a month now, and they seem to be helping somewhat. I can achieve pretty good ER when I just work on my dry mechanics.

It's getting my arm action to be completely continuous and fluid that is the biggest factor hurting my ER, in my opinion.

And thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by jimster:
I put up Daniel Bard's mechanics along side mine.My focus is my arm action of me and of him. He does what I'm trying to do.

I made a video highlighting the points in the delivery I analyze.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1c3sC5pJho&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

This video is private, so you will either have to view it on here, or by using the following link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Jho&feature=youtu.be

Notice how my arm kind of get stuck before it goes up? My arm is parallel much much much longer than it should be. Daniel Bard does what I want to do perfectly. Notice how he is continuously moving up and then forward.

I 'borrowed' this clip from another video on youtube as you can see. Which is why I made it private. I play the same clip and end both of our motions at external rotation.

The second half is both of us continuously. You may have to pause because I have unable to make a still image of key points.

I would like to know if anyone knows a drill or something that I can do to work on this. I believe that most everything else in my motion is fine and that, that is my biggest flaw right now.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Here's the link to my youtube channel. It has videos of me off a mound, so if you want to see me off a mound, look there!
http://www.youtube.com/user/ji...ink1993?feature=mhee

i would let brent pourciau take a look at your video,he is from top velocity i believe ,,google him and ask him to critique your motion.

I have already done the free pitching analysis thing in the fall. So he probably wouldn't be willing to do another one for me without charging me.

I would never buy his product because of the price and risk, but he does a good job anaylyzing mechanics and he comparing you to pros.

I also have a feeling that he would just say that I need to do not something. He's careful to not say how to do things because he wants you to purchase his product.

I did not look at your video but what has worked for my son and his college program regarding arm action, and overall velocity for that matter, is to use a variation of Ron Wolforth’s sand ball workout. I really don’t know if his program is the same or how different it might be since I have not seen Wolforth’s program exactly. You can get the sand balls at Oates Specialties online, and I guess you would have to purchase one of Wolforth’s programs. Maybe contact them for which one would have it.

I have seen him do it and they have the player stand in various positions with different weighted balls and throw them against a wall. It has certainly helped his arm action and overall velocity. I don’t have the specific statistics but from what I have seen his school has some of the hardest throwing pitchers in DIII baseball. There are easily 6 kids on the staff throwing over 90, and two are hitting 96-97. One Sr will be taken fairly high in the draft this year and he works at 92-93, tops at 95-96, and I know he came into the school throwing 86 tops.

Obviously there is a lot more to it than just arm action, but this is an area I would look into. I did not get your age, but sometimes arm action and overall pitching development is age limited.

One other thing you might try is to go out and throw long toss and make a concerted effort to just use your arm and not your lower body. My son injured his back in his Sr HS season and kept throwing without using his lower body, which forced him to use his arm more and when he healed up he ended up having much better arm action, because he was practicing using his arm.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by wogdoggy:

quote:

Originally posted by jimster:
I have already done the free pitching analysis thing in the fall. So he probably wouldn't be willing to do another one for me without charging me.

I would never buy his product because of the price and risk, but he does a good job anaylyzing mechanics and he comparing you to pros.

I also have a feeling that he would just say that I need to do not something. He's careful to not say how to do things because he wants you to purchase his product.

uhm jim thats capitalismfree enterprise and his business..the price is about the price you would expect for a pitching program.he already did a breakdown of you.you can tell by his work he knows his stuff and he has achieved huge speed increases himself.I'm sure if you decide to BUy the product he would open up and do a breakdown and give specific instruction..whats the risk? the price?

I came here for advice on my mechanics. I did come here to be told to purchase a product. I assume you are either Brent or someone associated with that cite. I appreciate everyone else's legitimate effort to help me.

I, however, am an intelligent 18 year old man. I'm not easily swayed with sleazy product placements on FREE sites.

I am disappointed in this site as of now. I'm not referring to your post BOF. You have actual advice and I truly appreciate it.

wogdoggy, If I had money to waste, I would have no problem buying his program. But I have a good enough grasp on what I need to do to get better.

I started this topic with a specific question and if you're not going to provide advice other than trying to get me to spend money, then I would appreciated if you didn't post on any of my topics.

Hopefully this is an isolated experience. I do not appreciate being talked down to like I'm stupid.

I have read his website and information. It is not better than anything out there. I also don't trust it because he tries to guarantee speed increase, but in his disclaimer contradicts himself. I found on a website that he increased the price for his program 100-300 dollars.


To BOF, I don't think that I will purchase that product, but I will be trying to isolate my arm though. Probably not in long toss but just in drills. I have been trying to do that for a while now, but I think doing it in front of a mirror is going to help me a lot. I tried that last night and it seemed to work pretty well.

quote:

Originally posted by jimster:

quote:

Originally posted by wogdoggy:

quote:

Originally posted by jimster:
I have already done the free pitching analysis thing in the fall. So he probably wouldn't be willing to do another one for me without charging me.

I would never buy his product because of the price and risk, but he does a good job anaylyzing mechanics and he comparing you to pros.

I also have a feeling that he would just say that I need to do not something. He's careful to not say how to do things because he wants you to purchase his product.

uhm jim thats capitalismfree enterprise and his business..the price is about the price you would expect for a pitching program.he already did a breakdown of you.you can tell by his work he knows his stuff and he has achieved huge speed increases himself.I'm sure if you decide to BUy the product he would open up and do a breakdown and give specific instruction..whats the risk? the price?

I came here for advice on my mechanics. I did come here to be told to purchase a product. I assume you are either Brent or someone associated with that cite. I appreciate everyone else's legitimate effort to help me.

I, however, am an intelligent 18 year old man. I'm not easily swayed with sleazy product placements on FREE sites.

I am disappointed in this site as of now. I'm not referring to your post BOF. You have actual advice and I truly appreciate it.

wogdoggy, If I had money to waste, I would have no problem buying his program. But I have a good enough grasp on what I need to do to get better.

I started this topic with a specific question and if you're not going to provide advice other than trying to get me to spend money, then I would appreciated if you didn't post on any of my topics.

Hopefully this is an isolated experience. I do not appreciate being talked down to like I'm stupid.

I have read his website and information. It is not better than anything out there. I also don't trust it because he tries to guarantee speed increase, but in his disclaimer contradicts himself. I found on a website that he increased the price for his program 100-300 dollars.


To BOF, I don't think that I will purchase that product, but I will be trying to isolate my arm though. Probably not in long toss but just in drills. I have been trying to do that for a while now, but I think doing it in front of a mirror is going to help me a lot. I tried that last night and it seemed to work pretty well.

If you think that was talking down to you I would think you need more than just help with your arm action but thats another thread. you like the way the guy breaksdown your video yet he becomes sleazy for being in business and advertising..pathetic really just like alot of today's youth.. keep searching kid and hope the clock doesnt run out in the mean time.good luck uh huh

Lets keep the discussion on topic.

That topic would be my arm action. Speaking of that I notice that I hunch over as my leg comes down. I think by forcing myself to stay taller, it may help my arm get up.

Any thoughts on my arm action/mechanics are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

jimster, there is one thing I noticed looking at the clips. I could not isolate it by stopping the clips, but it seemed to me that you tend to lead your arm side with your shoulder, and Bard seems to lead more with his elbow. In thinking logically about it, leading forward momentum with your shoulder does not allow that whip which would lead to maximum external rotation. Maybe if you lead more with your elbow, it would help with ER.

Hope that makes sense. It's easier to see in the second sequence because it lasts a little longer. It is very subtle, but it's what I'm seeing.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
jimster, there is one thing I noticed looking at the clips. I could not isolate it by stopping the clips, but it seemed to me that you tend to lead your arm side with your shoulder, and Bard seems to lead more with his elbow. In thinking logically about it, leading forward momentum with your shoulder does not allow that whip which would lead to maximum external rotation. Maybe if you lead more with your elbow, it would help with ER.

Hope that makes sense. It's easier to see in the second sequence because it lasts a little longer. It is very subtle, but it's what I'm seeing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...index=0&feature=plcp

That's a link to my full mechanics.

I believe you're right in saying that I need to lead with my elbow more. But I think that my elbow doesn't right now because my arm doesn't get up as early as it should.

To me it seems that my bad parts of my arm action are being caused by my 'hunching over' as my leg comes down. I think the 'hunching over' is causing my arm to get stuck at parallel and in turn causing my arm to not ER as much as it could and should.

I think me hunching over is also causing me to over rotate my torso.

I think the root of my problem is my body posture as my leg comes down.

Let me know what you think about my opinion on my mechanics. Thanks!

I just took a look at the video. First thing that has nothing to do with your arm action is your drive foot. It is flat on the mound and you are not getting any drive off the rubber, you will not generate any significant momentum the way you are throwing IMO. There is no energy in your lower body, your hips open early also which will kill off your ability to generate some whip action in your body. Remember pitching is a chain reaction, it all starts with the lower body. You need to lead with your hips as your upper body is leaking through.

I would not worry about your posture, this looks fine. You look like you have been lifting a lot in your upper body and don’t have much flexibility. To me that is a major area of concern. There is a stretch you can do called the “sleeper stretch” that will help you your arm flexibility, but you have to be careful with this one. Frankly I would get in a yoga class three days a week. You also look like you are trying to “shot put” the ball. You definitely need to lead with your elbow more. I think if you work on your lower body drive, keeping your hips closed, and think about leading with your elbow you will see an improvement. The key however is to get some flexibility so you can generate some “whip” in your mechanics. Remember pitching is a kinetic chain, one thing effects the next, etc, etc. Also think about being fluid in your pitching, you look stiff, which might be due to a lack of flexibility or just thinking too much.

Good luck.

Jimster, you are way late with your arm action and I believe it is because you lead too much with your elbow. Too much action with the elbow. Do you have any elbow pain from pitching? You do appear to open up early but it may just be your arm is just way way too late. Drop the leading with the elbow and try to get to the high power position before front foot plant. Then learn to show your back as long as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by jimster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...index=0&feature=plcp

That's a link to my full mechanics.

I am not sure because of the angle (may need to see a catcher view also), but...

You look good until the 0:19 mark, then instead of 'forearm bounce, then forearm flyout to 3B', you sort of flip your forearm over to the catcher.

But, I'm just some random dad.

Jimster,

I took a look at your video and the throwing sequence looks pretty decent. Observations include limited external rotation and limited thoracic extension. External rotation will come with increased Thoracic Extension. Increasing range of motion at the thoracic spine will help the arm lay back and will get a little more range of motion. Also, soft tissue exercises to loosen the triceps, pectoralis, and lat musculature will help with external rotation range of motion. Be careful of cranking on the external rotators with band work and strictly ER holds . There will be plenty of ER during the throw.

Here is a link to a few Thoracic Extension Exercises and Soft Tissue exercises. Try to implement these daily and see how he feels.

T-Spine Mobility
http://wassermanstrength.com/?p=114

Bar Rolling: Soft Tissue Work
http://wassermanstrength.com/?p=105


The arm action is tricky because so many kids are taught poor mecahnics at a young age and are accustomed to bad habits. aka.. ball facing away or 'show the snake fangs away" or some ridiculous analogy. The fact is that "movements" need to be taught and not "positions". The ELBOW has to get through during the throw. Too many kids are "pushing the ball" leading to decrease velocity, inconsistent throws & shoulder/elbow pain.

Here is an article I wrote on training movement patterns and also some things on why softball girls aren't efficient in throwing. I think you will be able to take some exercises away from this article.

http://wassermanstrength.com/?p=156

http://wassermanstrength.com/?p=154



Switched over website from ABathletics.com so still in working phase. Please don't mind the construction on the site. Hope this helps.

I actually use the back roller already. I'll be sure to use those throwing drills you showed me.

Thanks for the links!

Do you think using a weighted ball for the ball behind the head drill would make that drill more effective?

Great! Keep up with the foam roller on the back. You really want to feel like the elbow is leading and that the hips are moving forward as the arm is moving back. An external object that has some weight may allow you to feel this. The bat drill is perfect in trying to feel the arm moving back as the hips are moving forward. As long as this is in a controlled manner you should be fine.

Sounds good!

I found some other Thoracic back stretches to go along with your's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtLszoECbPo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgpAvpjDKTU

I'm disappointed in myself. I pride myself in being flexible and I would consider myself above average in that area. I noticed that when I did this I was not getting as far as I thought I should.

jimster, I'm not sure you should judge your ER on what you do just standing there or doing an exercise. If you look at my avatar (look close, it's small here), you will see the ER on my son's pitch. When I showed him this picture, he freaked out. He tried to make his arm do that just standing there and didn't come close. Part of it just happens during the throw and can't always be replicated outside of that. When he's seen a doctor, the doctor can make it come close and has stated that he has better than normal ER, but it's not quite as pronounced as this.

Keep working on flexibility, but work on the mechanics of your pitching as well. You have had some good advice here.

[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg2PMNmAwAg&feature=youtu.be ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg2PMNmAwAg&feature=youtu.be [/URL]

To me my second set, which you can tell by my fancy transition slide, my mechanics look better. I think that in the second set I'm staying closed better.

But I think that I can still stay closed even more. I think my position at footplant is looking good aside from my early shoulder rotation.

I was striding at or above 6ft each time. I wasn't really tiring to stride far, but rather trying to stay back longer.

My external rotation isn't there yet, but it's a gradual process. My arm feels good and that's the biggest thing right now.

All the pitches are fastballs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...EHE&feature=youtu.be

I noticed that my chest kind of leads which may be cutting of my ER. I think my ER looks pretty good on these throws. It can definately be more, but it's a good starting point.

It may be hard to tell but I use a normal ball and weighted ball during this video. The weighted ball is yellow and is 11oz. The regular baseball is well the color of a baseball. haha

Let me know what you think!

I make videos almost every time I throw, but I'll probably start posting them online more because it's easier to compare them to other if I do.