need some advise

quote:

coach is a complete ahole. Demoralizing to the players, seems to find something to scream about every play. Does not give many positives. Players are so "tight" they can hardly catch or throw the ball.

Yeah I know that coach. Most of us do. It's sad.

This is a tough situation. Coaches sometimes fail to realize the simple fact that the young men in their charge are playing a game. Oh, and by the way, games are supposed to be fun!

My advice to my Son would be to have a sit down with the Coach. Be strong, be prepared and be specific.

videotape the coach and all his screaming and send it to him.

sometimes seeing yourself is an eye opener.

quote:

videotape the coach and all his screaming and send it to him.

sometimes seeing yourself is an eye opener.

Good advice.

Let your son guide this ship. Its his life and his decision. While these situations can be painful, our sons and daughters grow up a lot having to deal with them.

Think if my son said anything to him he would consider it whining and then would really have it out for him

This is such a tough situation because my kid is the greatest kid in the world and it is breaking my heart that he is put in a situation that for 5 hours a day he is getting ridiculed. By the way, he is a great player and the coach is lucky to have him. Guess he might not have him for long if this continues!

baseballtoday-
Good advice...if you are intending to transfer! If not, probably not a real smart idea - makes sense and probably would be good for him, but it won't go over well!

*I'd have the sit-down meeting that was suggested. If nothing comes from that, you can't play where you can't focus....and if this coach's antics are so distracting and intimidating that you can't perform, it's time to roll.

.

As always (almost ) I see the big picture wisdom from Justbaseball.

When one of my sons was 12 we had nearly this exact same situation in youth ball. Told him I would intervene, get the coach bumped, get the behavior addressed, IF he wanted me to BUT to consider that he was going to see this same coach for the rest of his life as a boss, as a high school or college coach, as a teammate, as a co-worker,... If he could adapt now it would be a skill he would carry forever. Gave him the obvious out but left the ultimate decision up to him.

.

give it some time
at some schools with large rosters plus walk-ons, fall workouts are used to "thin the herd"

but then again, they guy just might be as you described

As much as we parents would like to jump in and help, DON'T. Your son needs to handle this. At this point in their life, all us parents should do is be there to listen and provide support. Only when their decision has a financial impact that they personally cannot support should a parent put in their vote. But then that's just my opinion.

This should be helpful for kids going through recruitment now....

If within driving distance...If not, fly. Spend extra time to learn about the baseball style of the College Coach.

First: go to games and practices without prior knowledge of all coaches. Just sit and watch. Hide in the corners. You can learn a lot.
Second: Always talk to current players during the official visit, ask them questions off the record, and away from the coach.
Third: Remember during recruitment, the coaches are showing a pleasant personality on purpose, once you signed the NLI they own you.
Fourth: Talk to Professional scouts in your area, while they may not always be forthcoming, read between the lines of their comments.
Fifth: You’re only as good as your last 10 AB’s (your son is now officially a piece of meat) Produce or die.
Sixth: Coaches jobs are always on the line, if he wins he keeps his job.

On to Bullwinkle’s view of current problem: This is your son’s problem, let him work it out. Talk to upperclassmen, ask what they did. Remember, this is early in the fall season, he could be a red*** to set the tone, then he may calm down. If he never does, you and your son didn’t do enough homework on the coach. College ball is not rec ball, it is a JOB. He is getting paid (via Scholarship) to play baseball. Play because he loves the game. Perform because without the game you can't breath. Don't let anyone get in your way. Lastly, they are even bigger ***hol** out there. Learn to achieve results regards of the guy on the bench.

Justafan2,
Give your son some credit. He can handle it much better than you think he can. I take sides with Justbaseball, Highlander, and RHP05Parent. Back off. Your son HAS to learn how to deal with “A” holes. The world is full of ‘em. While I admit I’m the parent that will get involved in a heartbeat there does come a point in time when we as parents have to assume another role. I think the role of the parent of the college athlete might be best described as spectator/advisor. Some call it “tough love”. My son was a two way player (Pitcher/Catcher) in college and wanted to give up pitching. Compounding his dilemma was an impending coaching change. He was unsure of his future and asked for my advice. Should he transfer or refuse to pitch or what? I simply said I would support him in whatever direction he decided to take. He said he was going to ask the new coach to remove him from the pitching rotation so he could get back to catching. It worked out great; he set down with the head coach, he stated his desires, and he and the coach came to an agreement and he loved the outcome. Maybe he handled it so well because he knew he had my support.

Here is an example of how thing have changed:

#1. In pre high school my son was criticized by his coach. It bothered him and as I look back I know I (his coach) shouldn’t have been so tough on him.

#2. During high school his coach criticized him and it bothered him and I intervened and told him (the coach) he shouldn’t have been so tough on him.

#3. During college his coach criticized him and he said it was no big deal. I was concerned ....he said “I can handle it, comes with the territory”.

#4. Now that he’s playing pro ball he actually criticizes himself and I’m sure he wants to be criticized. That’s a good indicator that he wants to get better and they want him to get better.

justafan - Very tough, I know, not to intervene in a situation where your son seems to be unhappy. I agree with the majority here, though -- sit back and let your son make the calls. He is going through a lot right now, particularly in his first year. I would suggest that you remind him that his job now is to go to school and play baseball, and that he needs to focus on working as hard as he can, keeping a positive attitude, and making sure he is the best player and teammate he can be. He's at a different level now, and the coach either could be a total .... as you said, or perhaps, some of the team is not working as hard as he thinks they should be, so he is reminding him that this is not high school ball anymore. Good luck, hang tough, and keep us posted!

Im not trying to be an ahole myself but let me just put this out there. Did you actually expect the coach to be an ahole during the recruiting visit? Of course he put on his best face in order to convince your son to play for him. It is quite possible that the coach is being an ahole in order to see who is mentally tough and who is not. He may be trying to weed out the weak and see who is really tough. He may be trying to see who can handle adversity and who can not. And he may be trying to bring the team together in a me and against you guys way. It is quite possible that after the fall and winter is over and he has had a chance to learn about his players that he will be a different animal come the spring. Im not saying that I know what is actually going on Im just trying to give a different take on this situation. I would let my son deal with it like everyone is having to deal with it and see how the season goes and then look at the situation again if I needed to. I will tell you that my College coach was a quiet gentleman and a great guy on my visits and my parents loved him. On the day they dropped me off for my first day as soon as the parents left we had a team meeting just the players and the coaches. The first and only words out of his mouth were "Its my way or FN Trailways Gentleman". It was a whole new ballgame. But as time went on I learned him and he learned me and I love and repect the man to this day. I hope that it works out for your son and I wouldnt worry about the coach taking your sons love of the game away. He will be ok. He is not alone. JMHO

Let me ask this---prior to deciding to attend this school and play for this coach did you attend any practices or games to see him in action????

This a key element in the recruiting process

What a shame. It's a shame that you all didn't do your homework before a decision was made.
As charming and down to earth as we found any coaches to be, son and us, tried to find out as much as we could from former players, current players, alumni.

Like coach May said... they put on their best face. Who wouldn't? My son told me after a week of fall ball during his first year of college.."The head coach has really changed, He's not the same person that recruited me"
Fungo

It's must be so hard to send your son off to college and then find out that he's miserable, especially when he's trying to do something that means so much to him. However, this experience might not only make him a better ball player, but a better man.

I really believe your son ended up at his school for a reason. Even if things seem tough right now, your son may be better off in the long run for sticking it out and dealing with it.

Resist the urge to jump in and make it better. Instead, be his source for strength and encouragement. Let him handle it and interfere only if his health and saftey are at stake.

I have to agree with most of the above posts. Sounds like it is character building time....learning to deal with difficult situations. IMO, I would let my son handle it (as long as his safety wasn't at risk), just a precursor to what he will have to deal with later on in life...difficult situations. However, I have to wonder (as stated above) if there might not be a method to the coaches current madness. Give it some time....everything is still very new, and your son will probably know what is best for him. Good luck...let us know how it all turns out.

No doubt that the coach will be different in the fall than he was during the recruiting process.

It can also be said that the coach will different in the spring than he was in the fall.

In the fall there will be walk ons, recruited walk-ons as well as bubble scholarship players. The first month or two of fall the coach is much more tough as he is trying to figure out who is going to be on the final roster.

By being tough and possibly going over the top the coach can weed out the mentally weak along with the players that can't play at the level of that school. Not saying it is right, but saying it probably happens. Think about it, there are probably 50-60 kids in the fall trying to make a 25-30 man roster for spring so the coach may be purposely being a-hole so as to run off as many as he can without having to cut them. JMO

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a long time. Eye opening and thought provoking, especially for someone who in a few years might be helping my son make a decision about college and college coaches.

No advice to add.... just want to say this gives me plenty to think about regarding the thoroughness of checking out a college coach and college baseball program!

quote:

Originally posted by 04and10:
No doubt that the coach will be different in the fall than he was during the recruiting process.

It can also be said that the coach will different in the spring than he was in the fall.

While parents and players eventually come to find out that coaches seem to change once school and practice begins, this does go both ways.

Many college coaches find out that kids and their parents were much different during the recruiting process than when school and practice actually started.

Some players and parents change in the spring, too, when playing time isn't what was expected.

gratefull,

excellent point!! No doubt about it, players and parents are definitly different as well once the season starts and PT is involved.

justafan2 ...

Obviously excellant advice all around from knowledgeable posters but I would like to comment on an aspect of your son's situation that is very positive ... from your own words: "The team and school are high caliber. I do think he will learn a lot and get a lot of baseball playing time"

I think it is important to focus on the positives instead of the negatives. There are returning players who apparently have survived the situation with this coach, and their "survival" may well be the result of concentrating on doing their "job" in a strong baseball program, learning a lot, playing a lot, and succeeding a lot.

It is easy for those not in your situation to ask why you didn't do more research before your son signed, but players and parents can do a lot of research and still not see the "real" clubhouse coach ... I heard great stories from my own son and his teammates about the coach's demeanor when others weren't around (tho ridiculing players was not part of it). We never saw this during the recruiting process, on the field during scrimmages or practices, nor was it seen during games. But I do know that after his first year, he was able to chuckle at the things that initially took him aback. He learned a lot, he played a lot, and he succeeded a lot ... the end result was very positive and I think a lot of the result had to do with focusing on the positives of his situation.

Best wishes for your son's future ... sounds like he has a lot going for him and that he has some real good things to look forward to, even in his current situation. And if it doesn't work out at this school, remember that there are options ... one of which may be transferring.

My oldest son went to a MLSB tryout when he was 16. He met a catcher from the school that he wanted to go to (and eventually signed with). The player told him basically the same thing. The coaches were all nice during the recruiting period and they changed dramatically when practice started.

I told him that it's just like the military, They are nice and tell you all the good things about signing up then bam!! boot camps starts.

The coaches are there to win games and to help your kid get an education.

A lot of guys had fun during boot camp including myself. It's the same in the police academy. It's what he wants to make of it.

There may be a method to his madness.
However, a big part of being a coach is to add some professionalism in the mix, which should never include demoralizing any player. I would consider my son quite lucky, as the Head Coach teaches some tough life lessons, but not by losing respect from his players by yeling or embarrasing them.
As a former teacher, I always was quite stern with my students in the beginning, but I never yelled or made them feel inadequate.

I stand by my words "There might be a method to his madness."

Justafan....again I say, goodluck to your son, keep us posted on how he chooses to handle it and what the outcome is. Sometimes no matter how much homework and research you do into a program, unplanned and unanticipated situations may arise. It might be that your son will learn more from this experience....than he had truly anticipated. As of right now, he's already learning about human nature, his own strength and fortitude, and how much he truly loves baseball while working thru the tough times.

Thanks for all the advise. Do need to say that my son was a last minute signee this past July. No excuses, we did not get to see the coach in a game sitution and since this college is out of state did not get to talk to any former players. Just went on recommendation and also some information on this website about the program.
Son is hanging in there this week, seems to not be in a good place right now. First time I have ever seen him down about playing baseball. Seems to have singled him out for some reason as his "whipping boy." Amazing, as my son tells me he is playing some great ball. No matter whether he makes the play, goes 3 for 3 the coach seems to have some negative comment. Not sure if this is just his fall demeanor or not. Other players have told my son that things get worse in the spring. He was told the coach will stop a game in the middle of the inning and scream at a player with all the fans and other team watching. Do not care whether he is trying to build character or not, this type of behavior would show me that the coach has a lack of character or else on some kind of power trip.
We will see how things go. If my son makes the decision to change schools and redshirt his freshman year I will support him 100%. Just feel like I let him down by putting him in this situation.

Justafan,

Well...ANOTHER thing he might learn is what he is NOT willing to put up with! Just curious, have you found that this school has an abnormally high percentage of transfers?

I was not going to post my personal experience with this type of situation but I just can't help myself. My oldest son is also a freshman in college but playing football not baseball. He had several choices on schools but decided to attend a school here in NC because he just loved the coaches that recruited him and the school setting as well. He called me about three days into football and told me that his posistion coach was a total ahole and was riding him constantly. He went on to say that when he screwed up he was all over him but when he did something really good he didnt say a word. He went on to say that the coach verbally abused him and his teamates constantly. Well he is several weeks into the season and tomorrow will be the third game of the season. He has not played alot just a few plays each game. He says the coach is still riding him pretty hard. I asked him if he rides all the kids or just him. He said he rides the Freshman really hard. I just told him that as a coach I pushed the kids that I saw potential in. I pushed kids to see what they were made of. I pushed kids to make them better. I told him to suck it up and be a man and deal with the situation like a man. If he felt that he needed to sit down with the coach and talk to him one on one then do it. I went on to tell him that he did not go to school to just play football that he went to school most importantly to get an education. I also told him that at the end of the school year if he wanted to transfer I would support that decision. I went on to say that things can change in a hurry to keep your head up and keep working hard. He is making a transistion from HS to College. In HS he was the man. Now he is just another player trying to prove himself. This is just the way I have tried to handle this situation. Im not saying that it is the absolute right way to do it. Heck who really knows for sure. All you can do as a parent is what you feel is right. It is only natural to be upset when your child is upset. We all want to make things right for our children and protect them. But I do know this. Coaches want to win. Coaches try to get the best out of kids and they all have different ways of attempting to do this. I agree with some methods and disagree with other methods. But one thing is for sure. I am not the coach. I am not in controll of what the coach does. My son has to deal with this situation to the best of his ability and be mentally tough and battle. And I have to support him and at the same time be honest with him and give him honest feedback. JMHO

Coach May ...

quote:

My son has to deal with this situation to the best of his ability and be mentally tough and battle. And I have to support him and at the same time be honest with him and give him honest feedback.

A M E N !!!

JMO

At the youth level and up to the HS level you might have some reason to intervene if a coach is being abusive to your son since he is usually a minor through his HS years.

But at the college level it's time for parents to butt out and let your sons deal with their decisions.

If your son is unhappy about his situation he needs to learn how to speak with the coach in terms of meeting the coach's expectations.

Running away sets a bad precedence for your son. This situation can give him a chance to "grow" in character by going through this crucible. It is a building opportunity to deal with adversity and make a success out of a bad situation. He shouldn't leave his current school just because he doesn't like his baseball coach's coaching style.

justafan2 ...

You may have read some of our thoughts about transferring on another thread in the Recruiting forum, and here is part of my input when it comes to players choosing to transfer:

quote:

Trust me when I say that I am hardly a soft touch but I think there are many many valid reasons for a student athlete to transfer. After all, we all understand that there are a myriad of solutions to problems, not the least of which may just be to walk away from it. That is merely what some of these players are doing ... and they have every right to do so.

I intentionally emphasized my particular thought that walking away from a problem is sometimes a valid option. And I believe that such a solution is something many of us have taught our sons and daughters to do when they feel it is necessary. IMO changing schools may sometimes be the best approach for a player who feels he is beng "targeted" by the coach. A lot of times, a person with that coach's kind of personality is unapproachable, (tho I would still recommend that your son try and discuss this with his coach first). Many coaches who end up receiving a transfering player might well know the caliber of coach the player felt he needed to get away from. (IMHO these collge coaches are a small club whose members seem to know a lot more about each other than we could ever imagine, so if the guy is the jerk he seems to be, other coaches will already know about him ... and may have even had other players consider transferring from his program to theirs.)

A couple of years ago, we saw a similar situation on the West Coast that involved a relatively high profile player who wanted to tranfer from his PAC-1 school to a particular Big West school (which was a big rival to his school)... it apparently was no surprise to others when the PAC-10 AD (probably as a result of input from the coach) would not authorize the player's release if he were going to transfer to this particular Big West team, and the player garnered a lot of sympathy because people seemed to understand the coach involved. And the player needed to "walk away" (tho I am sure he wanted to run, not walk) from this coach because he had not been approachable to discuss matters with the player. No one considered this as setting a bad precedent for the player ... it was something he had to do if he wanted to play ball in what he felt was a healthier environment. Negative situations like this can reek havoc on a player's education as well as their psychological state. So if he is having a lot of trouble, leaving should not be consdered a bad thing.

Eventually your son will have to make a decision, and altho I hope your son is able to get through this without too many "scratches", if he absolutely believes that he needs to leave, then he should be able to do it without second guessing himself or having others who aren't in his cleats, second guessing his decision.

Again, good luck to him.

Just a fan

You said your son was recruited. You say the team is high calibre. Now the coach is an a hole and demeaning etc etc. because as you say he is demeaning and not positive. Matter of perspective. I know you do bot want to hear this but I played for a college coach who was tough demanding and made you do things right and yes I got yelled out. today that is called other things like demeaning and not being positive. different times now. But he was the reason I got into coaching because he willed you to succeed. Every coach you play for is different. My son walked on in colleg. the coach was tough tough tough. His freshman year e called and I said how are things going he said the coach was toug and laid into him during an intra squad game. I said why. He said because he got picked off. I guess he was looking for sympathy. I replied dont get picked off.
Hang in there.

Will,

quote:

I said how are things going he said the coach was tough and laid into him during an intra squad game. I said why. He said because he got picked off. I guess he was looking for sympathy. I replied dont get picked off..

I have been known to give this type of advice before

Justafan:

Good topic..

Is it possible for you to attend a practice? I know you said the school is a distance away...but perhaps it would help for you to check it out.

Some other ideas. Your son is a freshman and a distance away from home. Is it possible that he is a) homesick b) scared because he now is realizing how difficult this is going to be c) sick of running 3 miles early in the morning d) afraid he may disappoint Dad by not being an impact player this year e) misses his girlfriend f) hates the dorm food, etc.

I'm not saying that your son isn't being truthful...many/most College Coaches are as you describe. There just may be many other things on your son's mind right now. It is a transition time...I'd give it some time.

I also definitely agree with others above... keep the transfer option out there for your son. "HE" may decide that is in his best interest. In the meantime...listen, be sympathetic and try to make that surprise visit

Let us know...

Will--in all due respect, having coached all my life and having played college ball I know the difference between a tough coach and a demeaning demoralizing jerk. Tough is one thing, telling kids that they are their because no one else wanted them and to get ready to pack their bags in another.
Mom---not homesick at all, has no girlfriend, been running over 3 miles his entire high school career, not afraid of hard work, cooks his own food and absolutely not doing this because of dad and yes I have attended practice. Son is right on target about this coach!

justafan2 said: Tough is one thing, telling kids that they are their because no one else wanted them and to get ready to pack their bags in another.

************************************************

JMO- Unless the coach is physically abusing your son your concerns do not qualify as reasons to move to a new situation.

Verbal idomatic expressions that can be characterized as verbal onslaughts, insults and denigration are just considered part of breaking players down to remold them into what a coach wants.

It is not unusual for a coach to pick what he perceives as a "good" player as a target of his derision to set in example for others to see so they understand what it means to take the brunt of disciplinary direction for others. If your son is playing that role then he should count himself blessed as the "good player" who is doing it for the team.

Breaking players down and remolding them "hopefully" from "individuals" into a "team" is necessary in most cases, especially when the coach perceives that some of his players have been cottled and spoiled all of their lives.

Coaches use these methods all the time...it is best not to interfere.

The only time I would get concerned is if the coach was forcing my son to do something immoral, illegal or he was being physically abusive. Those methods are over-the-line.

But verbalizing negatives...your son is not going to melt.

Tell him to "personalize his baseball". In other words, the monster he must master is the "game". It is best that your son concentrate on his baseball skills, not his coach.

Remember the coach is the one who is getting "paid" to win.

by jfan2

quote:

Will--in all due respect, having coached all my life and having played college ball I know the difference between a tough coach and a demeaning demoralizing jerk

justafan2 - with all due respect (deux)

if that were TRUE, you'd not be asking for advice now

BTW - from your previous Va. posts, ya have a both a "son" and a "grandson" who are freshman ballplayers - why not just have the one with the "bad" coach transfer to the school of the one with the "good" coach?


peace