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Need to Appeal?

T tojake10+ posts
I was working a Fall Ball game last weekend, high school level, when this occurred - bases loaded, two outs, and the batter walks. The runner on third trots home, says hi to the catcher, picks up the bat, and heads into the dugout without ever touching the plate. He never came within 3 feet of it. The catcher calls for the ball, steps on the plate, and appeals to me. I called the runner out and the teams switched sides. The coach for the team at bat asked me what happened, and when I explained it to him, he did not question the call. In fact he was a little embarassed by the situation as the runner happened to be his son. My question is, did I handle this correctly, or should I have immediately called the runner out when he left the field of play?
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piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
There was a time, a few years back, when the NFHS rule was that the umpire was to call out any runner who missed a base without an appeal by the defense..

Thankfully the NFHS changed that rule back and now an appeal must be made to record the out...

I never agreed that an umpire should assist the defense by calling out the runner without an appeal...It is the defenses responsibility to confirm the touches and if not touched then to initiate a proper appeal...

You made the right call...
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
Im not really sure...NFHS usually couches all of their rules changes under the heading of Safety related.....but I'd bet this was one of the NFHS attempts to "speed up the game"...


No. The FED czar at the time stated that a missed base in baseball was the only instance in HS sports in which, by rule, an official would witness a violation of the rules and do nothing about it. He argued that in high school sports, rules violations needed to be called, thus the old no-appeal rule.

It was changed to bring it closer to "real baseball".
jjkjjk500+ posts
My question is, did I handle this correctly, or should I have immediately called the runner out when he left the field of play?

I think so.

Raises a question.

Did he pass HP?
Or did he never get there and "retreated" towards his 3B dugout.

Seems an out call for abandonement, if the runner quits running, i.e. never reaches HP?
That would be the call at any other base.
Say R2,GB, followed by a close play at 1B on BR. R2 thinks the BR was out and runs into his 3B dugout.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
Im not really sure...NFHS usually couches all of their rules changes under the heading of Safety related.....but I'd bet this was one of the NFHS attempts to "speed up the game"...


No. The FED czar at the time stated that a missed base in baseball was the only instance in HS sports in which, by rule, an official would witness a violation of the rules and do nothing about it. He argued that in high school sports, rules violations needed to be called, thus the old no-appeal rule.

It was changed to bring it closer to "real baseball".


Thanks jimmy..I couldnt really remember the interp behind the rule change... I just remember hating to call that...
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
quote:
It was changed to bring it closer to "real baseball".


Is re entry DH mercy rule real baseball?


As you can imagine Will, "Real baseball" for all itents and purposes, is baseball played by Offical Baseball Rules (OBR) or MLB Rules....however these rules get changed, albeit infrequently as well.....

Unless your talking about the Knickerbocker Rules of 1876 as real baseball rules, in which case I particularly like the one where you can hit the runner with a thrown ball to record the out...

Imagine a Mike Piazza dribbler out to Roger Clemens and then Clemens drilling the Piazza in the ribs with a 90 mph fastball.....
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
quote:
It was changed to bring it closer to "real baseball".


Is re entry DH mercy rule real baseball?


DH is real baseball. Both leagues have the option of adopting it, only the American League has so far.

Re-entry is a participation concern and the mercy rule is a sportsmanship concern, both of which FED feels are legitimate issues that can be addressed by rules. The old appeal rule was none of the above and without Rumble around to defend it, it was challenged and changed.
W Will1,000+ posts
quote:
Re-entry is a participation concern and the mercy rule is a sportsmanship concern,


But re entering a player takes everything away from the stategy of the game. Lets talk high school for years when I was coaching there was no re entry. How many times did I and other coaches have to make a tough decision for example pinch hit late in a tight game for a good defensive playeSay it was my catcher or 2 baseman. tough decision now pinch hit for him and re enter him. That is not baseball. The DH in the American league is for the pitcher a weak hitter most cases. In high school you can dh for your secondbaseman. Now tell me telling a kid to play secondbase and not hit is baseball?
mercy rule sportsmanship? you did not run up the score ie bunt steal etc when you were up by so much. played station to station etc etc. unlike other sports baseball does not have a clock. It is what makes the game what it is. Somehow quiting(for use of a better word) somehow defeats the premise that everybody gets 7 at bats or 9 at bats Just a traditionalist. Sorry to bore those that seem to disagree.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
quote:
Re-entry is a participation concern and the mercy rule is a sportsmanship concern,


But re entering a player takes everything away from the stategy of the game. Lets talk high school for years when I was coaching there was no re entry. How many times did I and other coaches have to make a tough decision for example pinch hit late in a tight game for a good defensive playeSay it was my catcher or 2 baseman. tough decision now pinch hit for him and re enter him. That is not baseball. The DH in the American league is for the pitcher a weak hitter most cases. In high school you can dh for your secondbaseman. Now tell me telling a kid to play secondbase and not hit is baseball?
mercy rule sportsmanship? you did not run up the score ie bunt steal etc when you were up by so much. played station to station etc etc. unlike other sports baseball does not have a clock. It is what makes the game what it is. Somehow quiting(for use of a better word) somehow defeats the premise that everybody gets 7 at bats or 9 at bats Just a traditionalist. Sorry to bore those that seem to disagree.


FED's philosophy is to increase participation, safety and sportsmanship in a game whose rules are written for adults.

Obviously, you do not share that philosophy. That's okay.

As far as being a traditionalist, you'll have to work at either the MilB or the MLB level to come close to that. Everything else has compromises in consideration of the age or ability of its participants.
Last edited by Jimmy03

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