Negative Stuff

Why don't we stick to positive stuff here versus trying to dig up dirt on people?

.

We can stick to both!



And then we can get out of here!

.

quote:

Originally posted by LostZeal:
anything negative happen lately?

Well, this guy tried to bring a goat to a Cub game...

The Expos played a season in Puerto Rico...

Jose Canseco pitched...

The White Sox wore these...

quote:

Originally posted by nc42dad:
Why don't we stick to positive stuff here versus trying to dig up dirt on people?

Hey nc42dad:

Speaking of negative things-


Is it true that your son threw 155 pitches in a JUCO game on Feb 25th? If that's true, I know one place my son will not be looking at in a few years.

155 pitches in February? I too would like to know if this is true and where he goes to school. I've been looking at a lot stats out there and it seems some schools pitch there kids 2-4 innings regardless of the score and others pitch them 7 innings. Isn't it kind of early for 7 innings? Maybe not the 7 innings but pitch counts have to be in the 80's or 90's or even 100's. It's bad enough when there high school coaches used to do that but I thought college coaches had a little more knowledge.

There are a lot of horror stories out there about college coaches overusing their pitchers. Hey their job is on the line, they have to win games to keep their job.

That is the one advantage to going pro right out of high school. The minor league coaches are paid to develope players, not win games. You don't hear those kind of horror stories in pro ball.

Certainly true that professional teams take care of arms better than the colleges do. However, at the same time, kids (and their parents) need to understand that 98% of players who sign professional contracts get released (to do what?), and according to Scott Boras in an interview on another thread here, if you're drafted in the 9th round or later, you have very little chance of ever making it. He infers quite clearly that kids drafted in those rounds are being used.

Therefore if you're being "used" in one way by a college (to win) and in another way by a professional team (to fill a roster) at least the college route should result in a degree that has value for the rest of your life.

I would certainly never tell any parent what to do but having the full range of data available to them is important.

I think that you will find pitch counts are generally quite a bit higher in College Baseball than in Professional Baseball, where they really baby the pitchers.

I would hope college coaches would care about the health of their players over their concern of winning an early season, a little more than being concerned about their job. Then again, college players in baseball, football and other sports seem to be treated like a piece of meat which is seemingly justified at AD levels of these universities because a player's "education" is covered. The sad reality is that scholarship (most likely partial in baseball) is only good for 1 year.

I guess I am naive.

nchs, I think they might be more careful with arms at the pro level but as far as development I am not so sure. You can be in and out of pro ball very quickly. The article igball referenced is worth a read. There is a series running in the usa today regarding the draft. Plenty of bull being spread around by the scouting experts.

quote:

Originally posted by BBfun:
It's bad enough when there high school coaches used to do that but I thought college coaches had a little more knowledge.

Actually, Hoosier Daddy--Most high school coaches are cognizant of the pitch count idea because they realize their athletes are trying to earn a scholarship. Once in a while, you will hear a story of a coach overusing a player, but for the most part hs coaches use pitchers moderately.

Not sure how how they do things in the lovely towns of Hammond, French Lick or Scherrerville, but in the Land of Lincoln, hs coaches do it right!

I think if you are new here you should go and research some of the pitch counts and little rest we have seen in the chicago area whiloe playing high school. If you think some are not overusing some of the kids I think you are mistaken. Again some of them that certainly is not all the hs school coaches. As far as college how many pitches did that kid from texas throw last year on how little rest? You would think they know better but seems like you find the same thing at that level.

One thing that gets lost when talking about college pitch counts, is that starters usually pitch less frequently than HS and certainly, pros. College starters are usually on a full week of rest.

I'm not supporting anyone's argument, just pointing out a major difference.

Hoosier Daddy!!! Classic...

I think the concern of over use of a pitcher often times isn't caused by a hs coach over throwing a pitcher in a game. I think the bigger concern is from over throwing during the summer season when a player pitches 4-5 innings for their hs summer team on a Wednesday or Thursday and the parent/player or travel coach tries to get another 3+ innings out of the pitcher on Friday or Saturday either because it's an exposure tournament and the player or players family wants to be seen by a coach or the travel coach needs the pitcher to pitch on Friday or Saturday so the team can play on Sunday. The real challenge I believe is to somehow try to balance use between hs and travel ball when often time neither coach really cares about the other team and is just trying to win and makes the boy feel guilty if he doesn't take the ball for the team he's asked to.

That might be a problem dr9961 but most of the travel pitchers I saw didn't pitch for their high school team during the summer except at the playoffs. May be you see different at a different program.
The ones I watched are throwing 169 pitches in a game, or a complete game on wed andthen close 3 innings on friday. the list goes on as it has been mentioned many times over the years on this site.

Our kids (HS) only get one start per week. They get in some great side work during the week which allows them to fine tune or work on developing another pitch.

Sounds like a nice program ballfan. The couple cases I have mentioned I think are the exception more than the rule. I think mots take pretty good care of their players.

Maybe Logan was winning 49-0 and those 155 pitches were change-ups and get me over BP fastballs.

Haven't been on here in awhile but I saw this topic and had to post. Hows this sound for a throwing program.
Sunday-45 pitch flat ground pen
Monday- 120+ pitch game
Tues- 45 minute long toss
Wed.- short toss
Thursday- 30 pitch bullpen
Friday-30 pitch flat ground
Saturday- 120+ pitch game
Sunday- 45 Minute Long toss

And that will give you Tommy John. Needless to say only 1 pitcher ever graduated from my school without major arm problems. Thankfully Wheaton College has a new coach and the future pitchers there wont have the same problems we had with Coach Elder.

Ballfan- I've had the pleasure of playing with Drew Golz after he transferred in from Air Force. A great teammate.

.


When it comes to smelling a bad throwing program...

"Leave It To Weaver!"

Good to hear from you Weaver. Please visit more often.



.

How about this one. Wednesday afternoon, Naperville Central vs. Waubonsie Valley. Chris Singh is Waubonsie's best pitcher, but he had surgury on his hip in January. Has not even been cleared to play in a game, much less pitch until the day before. His coach has him pitch into the 6th inning, probably 80 pitches or so. That is CRAZY.

I know NC is number one and a close by rival. It would have been a huge early season win for Waubonsie. But was it worth risking your best pitcher in the third game of the season? I went over to talk to the Waubonsie parents and they were furious, as well they should be.

BTW, Bill Sieple, the Central coach pulled his starting pitcher after 4 innings to protect his arm and give some other kids a chance to pitch. And also BTW, Central won the game 9-1. Seiple takes a lot of heat for some of the things he does, but you can't fault him here.

.

I dunno Red...at Waubonsie Valley the hips are not left out of their training regimen...





.

...and a number of boosters are into hula-hooping too. Here they are, still at it, well after the game...







.

Weaver,


Drew is one of the finest young men I have had the pleasure to coach. You guys have a great thing going there at Wheaton College. Continued success to you and all the boys.