Were these guys starters or was there a playing time issue from the past that cause them to dislike the coach.
I have known the coach for several years and the only people that did not like him were the ones that playing time was an issue.
From what I have been told at least one was a starter.
And believe me they sure as heck don't want what happand at North to happan! That wasn't good at all. I'm sure this will all get sorted out and I'm wondering what people are going to have to say when it does.
I'm glad these kids got what was coming to them. It's about time someone stood up to kids who are 16-17 years old and think they are grown adults and made of teflon. I applaud the coach and if there are any other kids involved, they should get the boot as well.
I'll get off my soapbox.........not that anybody really cares anyway.
I'll get off my soapbox.........not that anybody really cares anyway.
I agree that this punishment seems warranted, but I must say, situations like this widen the gap between some coaches and their players. At times it's very easy for me to talk to my HS coach, and other times it scares me-and this is coming from a confident player. A constant dialogue with his players is absolutely essential for a coach to be successfull. I'm not blaming the coach for this in any way, but I am saying, talking to the players, being open to new ideas, and handleing a disagreement in mature ways, are great ways for coaches to be popular with the players. Having said that, the coach is the coach. He doesn't have to be your friend that is there to hold your hand.
Gosh, OP, I guess you never pulled a dumb stunt when you were a teen. My hat is off to you. 
Others of us were not so perfect.
Heck, I don't know if there has ever been a teenage boy who didn't think they were invincible and an adult (or at least as smart as any adult). Not very many, anyhow.
What the players did was wrong. Some punishment is called for. Don't know the details, so I can't express an opinion as to whether the punishment was appropriate to the misdeed. Perhaps it was. Perhaps it wasn't.
Can't say that I ever recall, back from the days of the dinosaurs when I was in school, anyone being kicked off the team for saying something about the coach. Running laps or sprints until they were ready to die? Yep. Benched for a game? Yep. Kicked off entirely for mouthing off? Nope, can't recall that.
Being kicked off the team was reserved for things like getting in trouble with the law, not making the grades, causing a serious problem in class, fighting a teammate, etc. The coach could handle the rest.
What they did was wrong, based on what was printed in the article. I just hope the punishment was appropriate, and not merely to assuage a coach's ego. And again, without knowing more, it is impossible to say.
But I won't come down too hard on the boys character, as others have. They could be good kids who just pulled a really dumb teenager stunt. Been known to happen.
Others of us were not so perfect.
Heck, I don't know if there has ever been a teenage boy who didn't think they were invincible and an adult (or at least as smart as any adult). Not very many, anyhow.
What the players did was wrong. Some punishment is called for. Don't know the details, so I can't express an opinion as to whether the punishment was appropriate to the misdeed. Perhaps it was. Perhaps it wasn't.
Can't say that I ever recall, back from the days of the dinosaurs when I was in school, anyone being kicked off the team for saying something about the coach. Running laps or sprints until they were ready to die? Yep. Benched for a game? Yep. Kicked off entirely for mouthing off? Nope, can't recall that.
Being kicked off the team was reserved for things like getting in trouble with the law, not making the grades, causing a serious problem in class, fighting a teammate, etc. The coach could handle the rest.
What they did was wrong, based on what was printed in the article. I just hope the punishment was appropriate, and not merely to assuage a coach's ego. And again, without knowing more, it is impossible to say.
But I won't come down too hard on the boys character, as others have. They could be good kids who just pulled a really dumb teenager stunt. Been known to happen.
Great points Texan. I really don't disagree with any of what you have said.
I did my share of stupid things back in the day for sure, but I did respect my elders and still do. It appears these kids have no respect for their coach. What happened to respect? It's a long lost art any more from kids these days.
I did my share of stupid things back in the day for sure, but I did respect my elders and still do. It appears these kids have no respect for their coach. What happened to respect? It's a long lost art any more from kids these days.
quote:Originally posted by Dtiger:
A constant dialogue with his players is absolutely essential for a coach to be successfull.
I understand what you are saying but in my opinion this is where we've gone wrong in youth today.
Your coach doesn't owe any explanation to you or any player. You may feel more comfortable with dialogue and that is worthy. But here is where I think the problems lies....youth today feel way too comfortable. I can remember maybe 1 or 2 actual conversations with my college coach while playing and today we talk very frequently.
I believe players today are constantly looking for an explanation. As far as I'm concerned, you wear a jersey............keep your mouth shut and speak when spoken to.
Other than that..............Play Ball!
This opinion coming from a 31 year old.
Texan,
Your point is well taken but I feel like I have read enough of your posts to gauge your makeup to some degree. I really feel like if you knew the nature of the posts and the depth of the comments concerning not only the coach but his entire family, you would run, not walk, to the other side of this issue. To those that think the coach should be his players buddy, there is a fine line that's hard to accomplish as a leader. I was always stern with my players and they knew the line. We had a blast with each other, as team and coaches. All of us. But I had to release my share of players from crossing that line. What's getting missed in all of this is the coach is having to wear the black hat when someone in these kids past should have donned it a long time ago. My 2 cents once again. Sorry if you don't agree but it's my opinion, and that;s all I've got left.
Your point is well taken but I feel like I have read enough of your posts to gauge your makeup to some degree. I really feel like if you knew the nature of the posts and the depth of the comments concerning not only the coach but his entire family, you would run, not walk, to the other side of this issue. To those that think the coach should be his players buddy, there is a fine line that's hard to accomplish as a leader. I was always stern with my players and they knew the line. We had a blast with each other, as team and coaches. All of us. But I had to release my share of players from crossing that line. What's getting missed in all of this is the coach is having to wear the black hat when someone in these kids past should have donned it a long time ago. My 2 cents once again. Sorry if you don't agree but it's my opinion, and that;s all I've got left.
quote:Originally posted by swingdoctor14:
Texan,
Your point is well taken but I feel like I have read enough of your posts to gauge your makeup to some degree. I really feel like if you knew the nature of the posts and the depth of the comments concerning not only the coach but his entire family, you would run, not walk, to the other side of this issue.
You could well be entirely right. I would place a great deal of trust in your judgement. As stated in the prior post, I have absolutely no idea what was said.
Baseball seems to attract great kids (not talking in terms of athletics). I have been privileged to coach some very fine young men over the years. And to get to know more yet. The vast majority were outstanding kids. But there will always be a bad apple or two.
And perhaps the boys involved with the myspace incident fall into the latter category. Not knowing, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Fuller knowledge could change that opinion.
Great posts guys. This is a difficult situation and I commend all of you for handling the discussion maturely (even you, Kyle 
). I hope there are lessons learned from this situation --- for adults and kids alike. As much as we hate to admit it, it's a different time.....and whether you support "old school" coaching or more of a modern-day approach, we all hope kids learn life-lessons from baseball, while still having fun. These kids can grow from this situation and Coach Allen has an opportunity to earn new respect. As much as I like demolishing Plano I hope the program gets it together....they have a fine tradition.
Is it spring yet?
-PD
). I hope there are lessons learned from this situation --- for adults and kids alike. As much as we hate to admit it, it's a different time.....and whether you support "old school" coaching or more of a modern-day approach, we all hope kids learn life-lessons from baseball, while still having fun. These kids can grow from this situation and Coach Allen has an opportunity to earn new respect. As much as I like demolishing Plano I hope the program gets it together....they have a fine tradition. Is it spring yet?
-PD
A few years ago our coach had a simular situation in which he let a couple players (get off easy/ undisaplined) he had a 16 year tenure with his children in the district, a state championship title and that year his team was 26-5 and went four rounds into the playoffs. He ws fired and it took him two years to find another coaching job.
The point is he may well be under a directive to punish forthe sake of the school and or school district.
The point is he may well be under a directive to punish forthe sake of the school and or school district.
Wow, I had intended for a lively discussion on the 9-5A schools but never expected it to turn to this incident at a 9-5A school... 
It is a shame in today's technology what kid's may get themselves in to... from the predators out there to the post's that some kids place not fully understanding what consequences could come form what they may feel is an innocent comment or post or having the ability to post something more detrimental and harsh than they should be allowed to. They target kids in school, now coaches, and predators target them. All of this space age freedom technology has brought us has had it's benefits and also it's downside.
I truly hope some kid's use this as a lesson so that it has some benefit overall. Life lessons can be real tough sometimes and this one is one of the tougher ones.
It is a shame in today's technology what kid's may get themselves in to... from the predators out there to the post's that some kids place not fully understanding what consequences could come form what they may feel is an innocent comment or post or having the ability to post something more detrimental and harsh than they should be allowed to. They target kids in school, now coaches, and predators target them. All of this space age freedom technology has brought us has had it's benefits and also it's downside.
I truly hope some kid's use this as a lesson so that it has some benefit overall. Life lessons can be real tough sometimes and this one is one of the tougher ones.
Great Book For The Youth & Parents Of Today
I know we could sure use the info in this book in our household.
I know we could sure use the info in this book in our household.
PD- I always try to be on my best behavior on this site 
.
KG- I definately understand what your saying, but for clarification, I'll somewhat resay what I said. When I meant constant dialogue, I meant over baseball things. For example: what pitch to throw to this guy or that, where to bunt it on a designed "bunt and run", what he thinks a weakness of the upcoming opponent is, etc. I didn't mean I was going to ask him, "why didn't I play in the last inning of the biggest game in the season?" The answer is simple and obvious- I'm (or in a general case, anyone) not better than the guy at your position.
.KG- I definately understand what your saying, but for clarification, I'll somewhat resay what I said. When I meant constant dialogue, I meant over baseball things. For example: what pitch to throw to this guy or that, where to bunt it on a designed "bunt and run", what he thinks a weakness of the upcoming opponent is, etc. I didn't mean I was going to ask him, "why didn't I play in the last inning of the biggest game in the season?" The answer is simple and obvious- I'm (or in a general case, anyone) not better than the guy at your position.
I don't know what all was said, but appears to me that the doctor has an idea. I know that OP & KG have the same ideas that I do. It is a matter of respect and I see so much is lacking. Maybe I'm just an old ****, but I know that when I was playing that I would never say and or do some of the things these kids do today. My coaches and my parents wouldn't stand for it.
As an official I see and hear many things that most parents never knew went on or were said (most parents wouldn't want to know), but that's another topic.
Way back when I was talking to college coaches about playing for them, one guy stood out. Back when Ranger College had a good program, their coach was Jack Allen. They had won a couple of national titles and Jack Allen was almost a god. Back in the days prior to our current "no tolerance" baloney, he had one rule...... no drugs. The year before I went they were rated #1 in the country. After the regular season and prior to the regional tourney, the players had a party. One kid broke out some pot and others joined in. Jack found out about, called a team meeting, found the players who had participated, and kicked everyone one of them off of the team. His manager ended up starting for him during the regional tourney. Obviously they didn't make it the JUCO World Series that year. Like Ken, I didn't talk much with Jack then, but spent a lot of time talking with him last May in Abilene at the JUCO regional. I heard a lot of good stories and complimentary comments about myself and my son. The last thing he told me was that if he could help in any way with my son moving on or anthing else, just give him a call. This is 24 years later.
You always knew where you stood with Jack. Imagine that......a coach that sets standards and expects kids/players to live up to them and holds them responsible for their actions.
As an official I see and hear many things that most parents never knew went on or were said (most parents wouldn't want to know), but that's another topic.
Way back when I was talking to college coaches about playing for them, one guy stood out. Back when Ranger College had a good program, their coach was Jack Allen. They had won a couple of national titles and Jack Allen was almost a god. Back in the days prior to our current "no tolerance" baloney, he had one rule...... no drugs. The year before I went they were rated #1 in the country. After the regular season and prior to the regional tourney, the players had a party. One kid broke out some pot and others joined in. Jack found out about, called a team meeting, found the players who had participated, and kicked everyone one of them off of the team. His manager ended up starting for him during the regional tourney. Obviously they didn't make it the JUCO World Series that year. Like Ken, I didn't talk much with Jack then, but spent a lot of time talking with him last May in Abilene at the JUCO regional. I heard a lot of good stories and complimentary comments about myself and my son. The last thing he told me was that if he could help in any way with my son moving on or anthing else, just give him a call. This is 24 years later.
You always knew where you stood with Jack. Imagine that......a coach that sets standards and expects kids/players to live up to them and holds them responsible for their actions.
Any updates on the 4 players that were dismissed? Are they back on the team yet, or will they not be allowed back?
Just curious!
Just curious!
In Plano Star Courier on December 22,2006
Shaw’s appeal denied, further action to follow
By KEVIN HAGELAND, Staff Writer
(Created: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:39 PM CST)
| Text Size | Print Version | E-mail This Story
Taking a midterm exam can be a stressful experience for any student, but knowing that the future of your baseball career was being decided at the same time can only compound that stress.
That was just the situation Plano senior Brandon Shaw was in Thursday afternoon as he was taking his midterm economics exam at the same time his appeal for reinstatement to the Wildcats baseball team was being made.
“I was trying to concentrate on my exam,” Shaw said. “But from time to time it would pop into my head that I might not be able to play baseball for my school anymore.”
After being dismissed from the Plano baseball team four days ago for derogatory comments made about Wildcats coach David Allen on MySpace.com, Brandon Shaw’s appeal was denied Thursday afternoon. That decision has left Shaw and his father Ron considering legal action outside the Plano Independent School District.
“The district has left us with no alternative but to seek legal injunctive relief, and to pursue the freedom of speech violation through the federal court system,” the elder Shaw said. “We are also considering additional litigation against individual employees within the PISD system.”
Ron Shaw took Brandon’s place at the appeal, but was unable to bring his legal council, Collin Kennedy of the HanshawKennedy Lawfirm, into the meeting because the PISD did not have equal representation.
Plano principal Dr. Doyle Dean did not return phone calls placed by the Plano Star Courier, but a copy of Dean’s written decision gives further insight into why the appeal was denied.
“Participation in extracurricular activities is a privilege, not a right. The discipline imposed by the coach was appropriate for the behavior at issue,” Dean wrote in his statement. “I do not believe the comments made by Brandon can be characterized as playful or colorful.”
There are further appeals available to Shaw, but his father said that since they are also through the PISD, they are unlikely to pursue that route.
The next level of appeal stays within the campus boundaries and includes a Campus Appeals Committee comprised of the following: three campus sponsors or coaches, one teacher, who is approved by the principal, one campus administrator and one counselor.
“Plano plays hardball and tries to force people to just go away,” Ron Shaw said. “But this is my son’s college career and I am not just going to go away. If I need to, we will take this all the way to the Supreme Court.”
Ron Shaw said he and Kennedy will further discuss the matter when Kennedy returns to town Dec. 26. Shaw contends that the school cannot have jurisdiction over a private My Space website.
While the legal disputes remain undecided, Brandon Shaw remains full of conflicting emotions.
“I’m sad, mad and just upset in general. These are the same emotions I’ve been feeling for the last few days,” the younger Shaw said. “I understand what I did was wrong and I see why this is a big deal, because some harsh things were said. But I don’t think it was so bad that I should be kicked off the team.”
Shaw added that he thinks having to stay after practice for extra workouts or a multiple-game suspension would be more suitable punishments.
In addition to Brandon Shaw and Collin Hatzmann, who were dismissed from the Wildcats on Tuesday, senior Bryan Barrett and junior Stewart Allen have also been taken of the baseball team for the same incident. It is still unknown if any of those three players plan on filing appeals.
The parents of the players still on Plano’s baseball team will meet with Dean Jan. 4 to discuss the suspension of the four boys. Both Brandon and Ron Shaw said they appreciated the parents’ concern for their situation.
Comments are limited to 200 words or less.
Plano student
wrote on December 23, 2006 11:06 PM:
"Coach Allen is the worst baseball coach in history. He has broken these boys hearts when he ruined their baseball dreams, and for what? For saying that he was the worst coach? Well maybe the boys were just telling the truth. He has coached at Plano for five years and they have never made it to playoffs and it is not because of the players. He has had some amazing players come through the Plano baseball program and he ruins them. Coach Brence is even worse then him!"
Plano student
wrote on December 23, 2006 10:59 PM:
" While I feel that what they said was a bad decision, I also believe that the punishment was too harsh for the situation. There are other athletes that can continue to play sports after they have been arrested for drug usage or underage drinking. So how is leaving a comment on MySpace so much worse then doing illegal actions? A few years ago Coach Brence bailed a football player out of jail and the next day he started in the Plano football game. In 2005 another football student was ticketed for a Minor in Consumption and was only suspended for one game by Coach Brence. The Plano coaches are showing us that if we do drugs or drink that it does not matter but if we voice our opinions we will be kicked out of athletics. Although some of the comments made were harsh; they also were explaining problems going on with the baseball program. Instead of kicking these boys off the team maybe the things that were commented on should be addressed because obviously there are problems with Coach Allen. A few of the comments were about Coach Allen's son, and that is showing that the baseball players do not appreciate the son being at practice everyday spitting on them and kicking them. Coach Allen also practiced baseball with his son during the time that he should be coaching the Plano baseball students. Why is he son at baseball practice, isn’t that a liability issue for PISD?"
Shaw’s appeal denied, further action to follow
By KEVIN HAGELAND, Staff Writer
(Created: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:39 PM CST)
| Text Size | Print Version | E-mail This Story
Taking a midterm exam can be a stressful experience for any student, but knowing that the future of your baseball career was being decided at the same time can only compound that stress.
That was just the situation Plano senior Brandon Shaw was in Thursday afternoon as he was taking his midterm economics exam at the same time his appeal for reinstatement to the Wildcats baseball team was being made.
“I was trying to concentrate on my exam,” Shaw said. “But from time to time it would pop into my head that I might not be able to play baseball for my school anymore.”
After being dismissed from the Plano baseball team four days ago for derogatory comments made about Wildcats coach David Allen on MySpace.com, Brandon Shaw’s appeal was denied Thursday afternoon. That decision has left Shaw and his father Ron considering legal action outside the Plano Independent School District.
“The district has left us with no alternative but to seek legal injunctive relief, and to pursue the freedom of speech violation through the federal court system,” the elder Shaw said. “We are also considering additional litigation against individual employees within the PISD system.”
Ron Shaw took Brandon’s place at the appeal, but was unable to bring his legal council, Collin Kennedy of the HanshawKennedy Lawfirm, into the meeting because the PISD did not have equal representation.
Plano principal Dr. Doyle Dean did not return phone calls placed by the Plano Star Courier, but a copy of Dean’s written decision gives further insight into why the appeal was denied.
“Participation in extracurricular activities is a privilege, not a right. The discipline imposed by the coach was appropriate for the behavior at issue,” Dean wrote in his statement. “I do not believe the comments made by Brandon can be characterized as playful or colorful.”
There are further appeals available to Shaw, but his father said that since they are also through the PISD, they are unlikely to pursue that route.
The next level of appeal stays within the campus boundaries and includes a Campus Appeals Committee comprised of the following: three campus sponsors or coaches, one teacher, who is approved by the principal, one campus administrator and one counselor.
“Plano plays hardball and tries to force people to just go away,” Ron Shaw said. “But this is my son’s college career and I am not just going to go away. If I need to, we will take this all the way to the Supreme Court.”
Ron Shaw said he and Kennedy will further discuss the matter when Kennedy returns to town Dec. 26. Shaw contends that the school cannot have jurisdiction over a private My Space website.
While the legal disputes remain undecided, Brandon Shaw remains full of conflicting emotions.
“I’m sad, mad and just upset in general. These are the same emotions I’ve been feeling for the last few days,” the younger Shaw said. “I understand what I did was wrong and I see why this is a big deal, because some harsh things were said. But I don’t think it was so bad that I should be kicked off the team.”
Shaw added that he thinks having to stay after practice for extra workouts or a multiple-game suspension would be more suitable punishments.
In addition to Brandon Shaw and Collin Hatzmann, who were dismissed from the Wildcats on Tuesday, senior Bryan Barrett and junior Stewart Allen have also been taken of the baseball team for the same incident. It is still unknown if any of those three players plan on filing appeals.
The parents of the players still on Plano’s baseball team will meet with Dean Jan. 4 to discuss the suspension of the four boys. Both Brandon and Ron Shaw said they appreciated the parents’ concern for their situation.
Comments are limited to 200 words or less.
Plano student
wrote on December 23, 2006 11:06 PM:
"Coach Allen is the worst baseball coach in history. He has broken these boys hearts when he ruined their baseball dreams, and for what? For saying that he was the worst coach? Well maybe the boys were just telling the truth. He has coached at Plano for five years and they have never made it to playoffs and it is not because of the players. He has had some amazing players come through the Plano baseball program and he ruins them. Coach Brence is even worse then him!"
Plano student
wrote on December 23, 2006 10:59 PM:
" While I feel that what they said was a bad decision, I also believe that the punishment was too harsh for the situation. There are other athletes that can continue to play sports after they have been arrested for drug usage or underage drinking. So how is leaving a comment on MySpace so much worse then doing illegal actions? A few years ago Coach Brence bailed a football player out of jail and the next day he started in the Plano football game. In 2005 another football student was ticketed for a Minor in Consumption and was only suspended for one game by Coach Brence. The Plano coaches are showing us that if we do drugs or drink that it does not matter but if we voice our opinions we will be kicked out of athletics. Although some of the comments made were harsh; they also were explaining problems going on with the baseball program. Instead of kicking these boys off the team maybe the things that were commented on should be addressed because obviously there are problems with Coach Allen. A few of the comments were about Coach Allen's son, and that is showing that the baseball players do not appreciate the son being at practice everyday spitting on them and kicking them. Coach Allen also practiced baseball with his son during the time that he should be coaching the Plano baseball students. Why is he son at baseball practice, isn’t that a liability issue for PISD?"
quote:a coach that sets standards and expects kids/players to live up to them and holds them responsible for their actions.
This line right here says it all.
If this happened on a regular basis our youth and generations to come would be much better off.
Unfortunately, I believe we are going a different direction.
quote:. I know that OP & KG have the same ideas that I do.
And what do all 3 of us have in common?
Please take notice Texan.
quote:
In Plano Star Courier on December 22,2006
The parents of the players still on Plano’s baseball team will meet with Dean Jan. 4 to discuss the suspension of the four boys. Both Brandon and Ron Shaw said they appreciated the parents’ concern for their situation.
I am curious what others think about this part of the article.
Any thoughts?
quote:Originally posted by cheapseats:quote:
In Plano Star Courier on December 22,2006
The parents of the players still on Plano’s baseball team will meet with Dean Jan. 4 to discuss the suspension of the four boys. Both Brandon and Ron Shaw said they appreciated the parents’ concern for their situation.
I am curious what others think about this part of the article.
Any thoughts?
I'm not allowed to fully express what I think about that part or what will happen.
Back in the day, we had to walk to school barefoot, 5 miles up hill both ways in 6 feet of snow when we were only 5 feet tall.
These kids today have no idea, right KG.
These kids today have no idea, right KG.
It's not a secret that many associated with this particular program are disgruntled. When families grow up with each other, often times playing with and against each other on local teams, it is not unusual for them to stick together. I don't think those that are supporting the kids that were dismissed are condoning their actions -- perhaps it is more a matter of feeling that the punishment is too severe. I spoke to the dad of a current player and he is bothered by the negative publicity (to simplify his feelings). The incident will follow this team around for quite some time.
In my opinion, a coach (of any sport) has to have thick skin. He/she has to approach their job -- and that whopping stipend -- understanding that criticism will come....especially in our age of entitlement (sad but true). However, a coach must be consistent and firm with discipline if they are too maintain respect, regardless of the win/loss record. Funny how much easier it is to coach a winning team though, eh? In this situation, the kids crossed the line....many times. It is my perception that this coach has failed to establish a consistent level of discipline over the years.
Before my friends here jump on me because I am not taking a harder line against the kids, I do not have a problem with the level of punishment leveled by the Plano administration. (And I expect you coaches to side with this coach.) There is no doubt that the kids were wrong and severe punishment is warranted. And despite whether the appeal process results in some sort of compromise, their seasons are impacted ---- and there are still 5 weeks until practice. But I think all parties have things to learn -- and IMO it would be a mistake if the coach does not take a reflective view of his coaching style, his rules, his manner of communication, etc.
I would expect a dad or two to be willing to follow through with the appeal process --- it would happen in most every city across the country.
Ken -- you're an intelligent guy. You can comment without breaking rules.....and perhaps the moderators will allow a little latitude in discussing this sensitive subject. Many times you throw out opinions in generalities, while other times you have little hesitation when it comes to being offensive. Feel free to share more.
In my opinion, a coach (of any sport) has to have thick skin. He/she has to approach their job -- and that whopping stipend
-- understanding that criticism will come....especially in our age of entitlement (sad but true). However, a coach must be consistent and firm with discipline if they are too maintain respect, regardless of the win/loss record. Funny how much easier it is to coach a winning team though, eh? In this situation, the kids crossed the line....many times. It is my perception that this coach has failed to establish a consistent level of discipline over the years. Before my friends here jump on me because I am not taking a harder line against the kids, I do not have a problem with the level of punishment leveled by the Plano administration. (And I expect you coaches to side with this coach.) There is no doubt that the kids were wrong and severe punishment is warranted. And despite whether the appeal process results in some sort of compromise, their seasons are impacted ---- and there are still 5 weeks until practice. But I think all parties have things to learn -- and IMO it would be a mistake if the coach does not take a reflective view of his coaching style, his rules, his manner of communication, etc.
I would expect a dad or two to be willing to follow through with the appeal process --- it would happen in most every city across the country.
Ken -- you're an intelligent guy. You can comment without breaking rules.....and perhaps the moderators will allow a little latitude in discussing this sensitive subject. Many times you throw out opinions in generalities, while other times you have little hesitation when it comes to being offensive.
Feel free to share more.
I remember a few years back, a kid used his phone to captured a coach taking a leak in a cup in the dugout. This coach was dismissed and that was that.
These kids crossed the line, yes they made a mistake but you have to pay the price. In this case, their baseball season. Lesson learned from this by other kids their age, do something stupid like this and you get kicked off the team.
If the parents don't like it, transfer.
These kids crossed the line, yes they made a mistake but you have to pay the price. In this case, their baseball season. Lesson learned from this by other kids their age, do something stupid like this and you get kicked off the team.
If the parents don't like it, transfer.
I believe if you are a great coach and a players coach they know who is the leader but also the kids are not afraid to come and talk to him about there problems. "On or off the field problems".
quote:
Plano student
wrote on December 23, 2006 10:59 PM:
" ... There are other athletes that can continue to play sports after they have been arrested for drug usage or underage drinking. So how is leaving a comment on MySpace so much worse then doing illegal actions? A few years ago Coach Brence bailed a football player out of jail and the next day he started in the Plano football game. In 2005 another football student was ticketed for a Minor in Consumption and was only suspended for one game by Coach Brence. The Plano coaches are showing us that if we do drugs or drink that it does not matter but if we voice our opinions we will be kicked out of athletics. ...
Standards should also be enforced with some degree of uniformity, however, in order to be fair. Unless there were very significant extinuating circumstances, the football players should have also been booted.
Just curious, in addition to Swing (who apparently has read the player comments), how many people on this site have read the actual comments (those made by the players on myspace) that started this mess?
Hello -
As a parent of teenage sons, I often review the myspace pages that they use/visit. One of my sons plays HS & select baseball, and has grown up in this age group circle of Plano families and players. As such, through one of my son's friend's myspace page, I did see some very inappropriate material that I assume to be the culprit. Assuming the myspace comments I saw were indeed the source of this controversy, trust me when I say that it was wrong to the highest degree, and it is possible that the players (and their families) may have been somewhat lucky that the punishment was not even more harsh. The myspace website that I saw was actually set up in the coach's name, and the comments were written from the players' myspace pages...to the coach's myspace page...and then comments back to the players from the coach's myspace page. The coach's myspace page was set up to look so realistic (used actual personal data, including information about his family), that it looked to be a valid site.
As mentioned in previous posts, it is no secret in the Plano community that there have been players/parents disgruntled with the baseball coach and program at Plano High. However,in my opinion, there is no defending a false identity coach's myspace, and the ramifications were appropriate, if not lenient. I should probably clarify and mention... my son does not attend Plano High, but even if he did, I think my opinion would stand.
The false coach's myspace website and comments were linked to several Plano players' myspaces. This leads me to wonder... It only takes a bit of discipline about how your computer is set up, and then a few minutes per day/week to review what your family is doing on the computer. It could be possible... that this situation could have been promptly addressed and stopped before the school ever became involved if parental discipline and oversight had been initiated? Just a thought...
As a parent of teenage sons, I often review the myspace pages that they use/visit. One of my sons plays HS & select baseball, and has grown up in this age group circle of Plano families and players. As such, through one of my son's friend's myspace page, I did see some very inappropriate material that I assume to be the culprit. Assuming the myspace comments I saw were indeed the source of this controversy, trust me when I say that it was wrong to the highest degree, and it is possible that the players (and their families) may have been somewhat lucky that the punishment was not even more harsh. The myspace website that I saw was actually set up in the coach's name, and the comments were written from the players' myspace pages...to the coach's myspace page...and then comments back to the players from the coach's myspace page. The coach's myspace page was set up to look so realistic (used actual personal data, including information about his family), that it looked to be a valid site.
As mentioned in previous posts, it is no secret in the Plano community that there have been players/parents disgruntled with the baseball coach and program at Plano High. However,in my opinion, there is no defending a false identity coach's myspace, and the ramifications were appropriate, if not lenient. I should probably clarify and mention... my son does not attend Plano High, but even if he did, I think my opinion would stand.
The false coach's myspace website and comments were linked to several Plano players' myspaces. This leads me to wonder... It only takes a bit of discipline about how your computer is set up, and then a few minutes per day/week to review what your family is doing on the computer. It could be possible... that this situation could have been promptly addressed and stopped before the school ever became involved if parental discipline and oversight had been initiated? Just a thought...
Many parents are afraid to invade their child's privacy. I do not watch my sons like a hawk -- but I have asked PantherSon to "adjust" his myspace content (once, I think) ---- and it was very tame compared to most. Yes, I want to be his friend --- but I'm his dad first and that carries with it huge responsibility.
The not-so-funny thing about the Plano myspace situation is that I understand that the site originator created it as "spoof" and that he is a good kid and has supported this coach. When others started to post there (from their sites), the "prank" snow-balled. I think some kids removed their posts before the story became public -- thereby saving their seasons. I hope the team is able to move past this series of events.
MMAL -- welcome to the Texas forum. I agree that many will consider the punishment to be lenient.
The not-so-funny thing about the Plano myspace situation is that I understand that the site originator created it as "spoof" and that he is a good kid and has supported this coach. When others started to post there (from their sites), the "prank" snow-balled. I think some kids removed their posts before the story became public -- thereby saving their seasons. I hope the team is able to move past this series of events.
MMAL -- welcome to the Texas forum.
I agree that many will consider the punishment to be lenient.
I'm not privy to decisions made in the PISD athletic department.
I do know, as a married man and father when someone takes a shot
at both wife and son that it has crossed the lines between a "spoof"
and mean spirited barb. Not to mention idenity theft, and you can
define that anyway you want as well. Are they bullet proof once
again? Reading these posts, it looks like it. Do Overs for all.
I stand by my comments concerning the punishment handed down. And
they are lucky no charges have been filed from the other direction.
I do know, as a married man and father when someone takes a shot
at both wife and son that it has crossed the lines between a "spoof"
and mean spirited barb. Not to mention idenity theft, and you can
define that anyway you want as well. Are they bullet proof once
again? Reading these posts, it looks like it. Do Overs for all.
I stand by my comments concerning the punishment handed down. And
they are lucky no charges have been filed from the other direction.
quote:Originally posted by swingdoctor14:
Are they bullet proof once
again? Reading these posts, it looks like it. Do Overs for all.
Having re-read the last several pages of this thread, I don't see where you are getting this conclusion. Other than JB, didn't find anyone who said the dismissal wasn't appropriate.
In an earlier post, I stated I didn't know if it was appropriate or not as I didn't have enough information to make a judgement. After your post stating you had seen the myspace postings and that you judged them sufficient to warrant dismissal, I accepted your judgement that it was appropriate.
I do think it is interesting that apparently some folks may have made the judgement without having much knowledge (either personal or from a trusted source) of the specifics.
Swingdoc -- I must be missing the posts where people are suggesting that the kids be "pardoned" or given a do-over. And it has been repeated in nearly every post that the kids crossed the line and deserved to be banned from the team. Although I understand the offensive nature of this incident, it is certainly a different kind of identity-theft....encouraged to an extent by the electronic age. Some genius needs to determine a way to prevent this type of masquerade -- there are dozens of myspace-like sites.
I'll say it again --- I support the severe punishment.
I'll say it again --- I support the severe punishment.
I used a pretty broad brush in that comment and for that I apoligize. I just keep reading, and in doing so think some of the opinions lean toward running laps or missing some games. Not pointed at anyone or any post per say. Supreme Court? Give us a break. Once again sorry if Texan a PD thought I was aiming that arrow at ya'll. Man would I love to speak my mind on this whole situation. BTW Why does he state that it concerns his son's college career? I was
thinking this was High School. I guess he's presumming?
I know Collikar -5 for spelling.
thinking this was High School. I guess he's presumming?
I know Collikar -5 for spelling.
And will filing suit further hurt his son's chance of playing in college?
I very well may be naive in my thinking, and not having personal knowledge of the situation at Plano I clearly don't know the details (disclaimer).....but, my gut feel is that the baseball program at Plano would be best served for the remaining parents to stay out of the discipline process, thus, I am not sure I understand the purpose of the planned January 4th meeting with the Plano principal. Is the purpose of the meeting to discuss the dismissals or to discuss issues in the program?
I do feel for these young men and their families, including those remaining on the team. This is a tough way to start the spring semester.
I do feel for these young men and their families, including those remaining on the team. This is a tough way to start the spring semester.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
And will filing suit further hurt his son's chance of playing in college?
Who gives a rats ***.
It's not about a kid having an opportunity to do something. It's about a kid that messed up big time and is getting an "EXTRA CIRICULAR" (-5 for spelling) activity taken away.
It is too often assumed that a college athletic career will in fact take place. So in this case, if no lesson is learned what will happen if and when this athlete did play at the college level?
Then, for that matter, what would happen if this same kid had the opportunity to play in the Big Leagues.
You know what would happen????????????
I do.......................
Most folks would say........"Look at that guy, makes all that money and is a piece of ****"
Well............???????
How did that player get that way?
Here is your example.
Now, of coarse this is not case specific and the odds of everything playing out this way are slim. But it happens.
As I read this stuff what keeps playing in my head over and over is.....................
What's sad about this whole deal is that this stuff happens on a regular basis. In this case, it happened in print unlike most others.
It's my belief that society would rather turn away than face things head on.
Kudo's to Plano for doing what they feel is just.
What's sad about this whole deal is that this stuff happens on a regular basis. In this case, it happened in print unlike most others.
It's my belief that society would rather turn away than face things head on.
Kudo's to Plano for doing what they feel is just.
Once again, you are offbase KG.
My point was that the father is making a bad situation worse by his actions. The boy did his own damage to his chances of playing college ball when he got booted off the HS team. The dad is making it worse by going after it with a lawyer.
And do you know the definition of "chance"? Apparently not.
And to that boy, it IS about the chance to play at the college level. Obviously, the boy had hopes of continuing to play on. And again, he has damaged those hopes by his own actions.
The players who were booted off the team are learning a lesson the hard way. The parents' subsequent action can make that lesson even tougher.
My point was that the father is making a bad situation worse by his actions. The boy did his own damage to his chances of playing college ball when he got booted off the HS team. The dad is making it worse by going after it with a lawyer.
And do you know the definition of "chance"? Apparently not.
And to that boy, it IS about the chance to play at the college level. Obviously, the boy had hopes of continuing to play on. And again, he has damaged those hopes by his own actions.
The players who were booted off the team are learning a lesson the hard way. The parents' subsequent action can make that lesson even tougher.
Swingdoc -- you don't offend me -- no worries.
We've said it before and this situation doesn't change the fact that.....if the kids have talent, they can play college baseball.....somewhere. JUCO, NAIA, somewhere -- regardless of the outcome of this appeal process. In the not too distant past, a well-known JUCO program in OK had an alleged rapist on its roster. I am NOT comparing this situation to that one -- but life is full of 2nd chances (right, Rosie? ) and if these kids grow up, there is a good chance they will have baseball opportunities.
I still wish I felt like there was a bit more....remorse....in this situation.
We've said it before and this situation doesn't change the fact that.....if the kids have talent, they can play college baseball.....somewhere. JUCO, NAIA, somewhere -- regardless of the outcome of this appeal process. In the not too distant past, a well-known JUCO program in OK had an alleged rapist on its roster. I am NOT comparing this situation to that one -- but life is full of 2nd chances (right, Rosie?
) and if these kids grow up, there is a good chance they will have baseball opportunities. I still wish I felt like there was a bit more....remorse....in this situation.