New Coach not letting Son play his position.

Best thing is probably for son to play the season out,play heads up ball with every opportunity, and find another team for fall and next summer if your son isn't satisfied with playing time and position. Since he's young, playing other positions will only make him more desirable later on. Not getting the playing time at third right now might make him even more "hungry," a good thing. I seriously doubt talking to the coach will help, probably the contrary.

Thanks for the reply. Just so you know the Coach will not be coaching in the fall.

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That is excellent advice provided by smalltownmom. For whatever reason the coach is not going to give your son what he deserves and most likely earned. He's in a tough spot with this coach.

Start looking now for a team that is truly desirous of the talent and abilities that your son possesses. For next season your son should get away from this coach. Do not burn any bridges in the process. Your new coach will appreciate that.

Is this a set back? Yes. Can good things come about from this? You betcha!

Tell your son to keep a good attitude and you keep us posted JJ.

And by the way...welcome to the HSBBW!



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may want to edit out your son's name in case the coach or his teammates are visiting the site....

I know it can be frustrating, if you decide to address it with the coach, let your son be the one to address it with him, you run the risk of being considered a high maintenance dad if you address it with the coach plus it teaches your son some great communication skills.

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More great advice...especially concerning the editing.

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Playing other positions is the best thng a young player can do.I agree just stick it out for the summer.Trust me and others when they tell you adversity is a good thing to experience and learn how to deal with.

So much of this nonsense goes on at the HS travel ball level.It was interseting to me watching the College world series.The announcer was talking about Virginias Right fielder.

He discussed how the young man came and started his freshmen year.He was then beat out his sophmore, and junior year.He worked hard for those two years, never complained.The announcer made the comment that Brian O'Connor the head coach (class act), plays the BEST players.Doesnt matter who you are.

Anyway the young man worked his way into the line up as a senior and was playing in the college world series.

I know bad coaches exist,I know they dont always play the best nine guys for whatever reason.

Being this late in the summer I would just stick it out, play hard every inning and it will be fine.

Wow what a great opportunity for your son. To get a coach who is giving him an opportunity to learn another position. Giving him an opportunity to learn another aspect of this great game. Maybe one day your son will be on a team where the other 3b is a flat out stud. The mif's are the two best players on the team. And your son can go to the outfield with confidence knowing he has played there before and can get the job done. And he will be in the line up not sitting the bench behind those other 8 position players.

Is your son a baseball player or a 3b? If he learns to be a baseball player that can play multiple positions and do it with confidence at a high level he will give himself opportunities. He will give the coach flexibility. You and your son can look at this as a negative or you can choose to see this as a great opportunity and a part of his growth in the game.

I have had Soph's and Jr's that were very good but not as good as my Sr or Jr 3b Mif CF. But because they could contribute at other positions they were on the field and playing. In the line up hitting. The ones that "think" they are a 3b or a 2b and can not contribute at other positions do indeed sit the bench. The ones that are baseball players are on the field playing.

Your looking at this the wrong way. He is not hurting your son. He is giving him an opportunity to grow as a player. He is giving him something that potentially could get him on the field down the road. Think about that.

Coach May thanks for your insight it is very much appreciate as all the comments so far but what are your thoughts on Coach putting a player in a position that has consistent errors at 3rd? My son does not expect nor wants to play 3rd exclusively, in the lat 12 games not once at 3rd and 2nd for only 2 innings that produced outs and no errors? He has played left field many times in the past and in High School and as no issues but pitching my son when he knows he can't pitch when we are down 2 runs down and when we lose he tears into team? I am a bit confused by this as is many of the parents. We have a big kid who can hit 1 out of 12 times put in the 5 hole. He has 11 strike outs so far. He puts this same kid as catcher and he caused 5 runs in one game. I don't yell at my son and I don't get involved in politics. I let hard work do the talking!

He was diagnosed with osgood schallter and does experience knee pain form time to time but it has not hurt his playing. We have told the Coach this and maybe just maybe we think that may be a factor but he still produces. Just confused!

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"It is frustrating because he plays well. The current 3B player never sits and never plays any other position. His batting is below average. ( I am not just saying that either.) He has 4 errors in the last tournament that caused 5 runs and the game. Yesterday he had 3 errors in a row costing us 2 runs and the game. Last season this 3B never played 3rd once and sat quite a bit because the last coach did not put with his errors."

This is the passage that prompted me to advise JJ's son to look for another team.

If, for some convoluted reason, the coach thinks he is going to build a stronger and more successful team by playing a kid at 3B who has few skills for the position then I am going to disagree with that coaching decision.

Confidence is necessary for success. Winning boosts confidence. Losing ballgames doesn't. Allowing a player, prone to making numerous errors, to remain in a position when there is clearly another player much better suited to help the team win is poor coaching in my opinion.

From everything that I have read from JJ the coach does not have the best interests of the team in mind when making his decisions. If the coach is making decisions that so obviously saps the team of game winning confidence then he should explain himself. He is not doing a favor to himself, his team, the struggling player, or the deserving player. What is he doing? Taking his team downhill? What is the point?



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"Your looking at this the wrong way. He is not hurting your son. He is giving him an opportunity to grow as a player. He is giving him something that potentially could get him on the field down the road. Think about that.'

This is true concerning JJ's son, but what about the team? What on earth do you think this coach is trying to accomplish that is positive for the team?



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"I let hard work do the talking!"

Excellent...never let go of that!

"He was diagnosed with osgood schallter and does experience knee pain form time to time but it has not hurt his playing. We have told the Coach this and maybe just maybe we think that may be a factor but he still produces. Just confused!"

I don't think this coach is concerned at all with your son's aches and pains (our family knows all about Osgood-Schlatter). Unfortunately you, and others, have good reason to be confused.





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My opinion for whatever it is worth...have your son stay with the team (edit,don't jump ship this summer), tell your son to do whatever is asked (whether you agree with it or not), keep your opinions to yourself regardless (about the coach's abilities) of what others are chit chatting about, don't talk negative about other players, don't use his knee issue as an excuse, sit back and take it all in, because, this is just the beginning.

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JJ's son has a choice for next season. Should he stick with this coach?

By the way...good advice TPM.




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[QUOTE]

Originally posted by josephj:

Coach May thanks for your insight it is very much appreciate as all the comments so far but what are your thoughts on Coach putting a player in a position that has consistent errors at 3rd? My son does not expect nor wants to play 3rd exclusively, in the lat 12 games not once at 3rd and 2nd for only 2 innings that produced outs and no errors? He has played left field many times in the past and in High School and as no issues but pitching my son when he knows he can't pitch when we are down 2 runs down and when we lose he tears into team? I am a bit confused by this as is many of the parents. We have a big kid who can hit 1 out of 12 times put in the 5 hole. He has 11 strike outs so far. He puts this same kid as catcher and he caused 5 runs in one game. I don't yell at my son and I don't get involved in politics. I let hard work do the talking!

_______________________________________________

Why worry about what any other players on the team are or aren't doing in regards to your own son's playing time? I don't ask that in a negative tone but for you to just think about it for a second. Your son can only control what he does when given the opportunity to play.

If you're constantly belittling the other players in front of your son (not saying you are), then you're not helping him grasp the concept of team, sportsmanship, good attitude, putting others first, et al. You get my drift. Teach him how to be a good teammate by encouraging his buddies when they make an error, strikeout, sit on the bench, etc.

Coach May hit the nail on the head in that this is by FAR the best opportunity your son has to learn how to be a baseball player.

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Question: Should JJ's son stick with this coach for next season?


I think, in some backward way, that JJ's son is indeed getting a good opportunity to learn some valuable lessons and a new position or two.

It is my opinion that he is unlikely to learn much more than that from this particular coach. There are obviously better coaches out there to learn from and to grow with.

From the facts I have read so far this coach is the one who needs to learn a few things to build a better team. It is my opinion that a coach's primary responsibility to a team is to instill confidence in the team. Confidence that is earned and not given.

From that type of confidence all good things flow. This coach, in my opinion, does not have the ability to do this and therefore is not a good coach.

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Lots of great advice here. Two additional things come to mind for me...

One. Communication. What is the purpose and primary objective of this team? Was there a meeting or any info sent out that outlined the program? Were your expectations going in based on anything the team/coach communicated? My point here - if your son changes teams going forward, make a reasonable effort in advance to determine what you are getting into and what to expect. Ask questions, not in a "we've been screwed in the past" sort of way but in a common sense due dilligence manner.

Two. Re-read Coach May's post. Based on your reply to coach May, I'm left thinking you are perhaps still a bit focused on comparing the poor play of the other players on the team (Sorry, I see that while I was composing this, others made the same point). While GotWood's points are valid, I think it would be a shame if you came away from the discussion thinking, "yeah, it was the bad coach's fault" even if it's true. Much better to focus on guiding son to maximize his efforts and make the best of the opportunity.
Your topic title is "coach not letting son play HIS position". HIS position is the one HIS coach assigns him at any given moment, for whatever reason. I've had players come through the system (often more so, the parents) set on thinking they are a SS or 3B or whatever. They can't understand it when they move up a level and run into a situation where they don't have the opportunity to play that position any more. Those are the ones that struggle with embracing an opportunity at another position, whether permanently or for the time being.
That may not be the case here, but it will be at some point. All the better he learns that lesson before it happens.

I'm assuming your son played on the HS freshman team this past spring.Keep in mind that, if your son is going to a 4A or 5A high school in Texas, he's playing some fairly serious ball.

I don't know what school he attends, but his chances of playing varsity next year are going to be determined for the most part by his bat. While I can't necessarily speak for all (or any) Texas HS coaches, but in watching for a few years, I can tell you that if your son can hit, he will stand a much better chance of jumping to varsity next year than if he fixates on playing third base or another infield position. Defensive specialists play in the preseason tournaments, but they watch virtually every district and playoff game.

If they're sure he can rake, they'll find a spot for him in the lineup, and maybe in the field. And the fact that he is playing the outfield right now is a plus, as I see it. Once he proves himself with the bat, he's going to stand a much better chance of winning an outfield spot as a sophomore than getting a coveted infield position.

Tell him to look on the outfield as a positive and a chance to get 4 AB's a game. Heck if he's playing left, he'll have a chance to flag down the ball that get past this summer's third baseman and throw out the runner going to second.

Good luck to him and let next spring and summer take care of itself.

Gotwood,
Keep in mind we are hearing ONE side to the story. And that is the parent of the player's side, who not only feels his son is not getting opportunities, but that other players are not good and then when they lose, the coach rips into the team.

Is this something we have never heard before?

I am not saying that jj is wrong, and understand he has come to vent, no problem, but for me, is that this will not be THE only time in his son's baseball career that he will see this, learn to understand that this often comes with the territory and how to deal with it. Dealing with it is, that as a player you do what you got to do and as a parent don't whine and don't complain, I am learning to deal with that myself lately.

JMO.

Great advice given here, hang in there and good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by No one of consequence:
Heck if he's playing left, he'll have a chance to flag down the ball that get past this summer's third baseman and throw out the runner going to second.

Now, that there was funny.

Gotta push the BS button on this one Coach May. The kid sits the next game after asking about playing 3B and is given a BS excuse. It is just plain a bad situation if the information we've been given is correct.

Make the best of it, i.e. don't ask any more questions, for the rest of the "season" and stay away from that particular coach from now on if at all possible.

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I agree with CADad given the information we know.

And I agree with cabbagedad too...that was funny!




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quote:

Is your son a baseball player or a 3b?

Best answer IMO..

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I agree with what you say Bulldog, but I don't get the impression that is the lesson this coach is trying to teach. The good coaches on here understand that, but this guy? I'm not sure.

While JJ's son is committed to play for this coach this season then I think all he can do is make the best of what appears to be a lousy situation. He should learn those valuable lessons even if they aren't in the coach's syllabus.

But next season is about choice and freedom. I agree with what others are saying about the existing team: be a good teammate; abide by the rules; following directions; don't worry about what you can't control; no whining; be positive; work hard; and don't burn any bridges. It is JJ's son's responsibility next year to fully seek out as much information that is possible about any team he may be joining. Once on that team he must abide by the rules and accept his decision.

This coach ultimately may or may not be a good coach. What we know so far indicates he is not.

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Coach May, I usually reply to a thread when I read a post I feel is worth commenting on, but in this case I’m glad I kept reading, because you said almost exactly what I was thinking! ;

I sure can empathize with a dad or a player who finds himself in josephj’s position, but thankfully, many years of experience has taught me that when life gives you lemons, making lemonade is usually the best option possible. There’s nothing much harder than dealing with a new coach or manager, especially one who isn’t familiar to everyone, but usually everything shakes out after a year or so, once everyone gets used to each other.

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I need to learn. What is it that this coach is trying to accomplish with his team by continually allowing an overwhelmed and underskilled 3B commit error after error contributing to losses? Same with a weak hitting and porous catcher? What about the rest of the team? I'm taking JJ at his word in regards to what is happening on the team.

I really want to learn. What do you think this coach is trying to accomplish? Feel free to fill in the blanks by listing assumptions since we don't know the coach's side of the story. I'll say it again...I don't think the coach is good, but he's the coach and JJ's son must finish the season with him.




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Thanks again for all the responses and I can understand and relate when the parents are one sided but i assure you I am not. I am only presenting what is going on and trying to get feed back on the best approach.

As I write my son is playing for the first time at 3rd to his and my wife's surprise. I am at work and she texts me on the game. She said he had 2 assists and 1 out. He was put in the 9 hole and got a single and rbi. The 3B person was put in LF then just now top of the 4th they take my son off and put him in LF and the 3B person back to 3B and he had back to back errors again and a run scored on his errors which would have shut the inning down.

Would it be best to email him or call? (The coach)

gw,

I guess I need to learn too. Where was it said that the coach was continually allowing an overwhelmed and underskilled 3B commit error after error contributing to losses?

Maybe I don’t interpret what josephj said the same way you did because I score so many games and know that its pretty rare that any one player costs any team a game, because there’s always opportunities to score more runs, or for the pitchers to do a better job of getting batters out. Looking at things that way, every player contributes to every loss, and every win. Not only that, also being a scorer, I know how easy it is for people who have biases to misjudge things, which is why I always like to take a very close look at the numbers.

When I say that, what I mean is, it may well be that josephj ASSUMED the plays that kid made were errors, when it might be that in someone else’s opinion that may not be the case. And that’s why its not really productive to offer a lot of opinions about something where the only view we have is one coming from a person who’s obviously biased.

In the end, I’d offer pretty much the same advice as TPM, and add that the boy should continue to do what he can, and at the end of the season, if in his honest opinion he’s not being given a fair opportunity, he should simply move on to another team. But I have to say that it sure sounds to me as though there’s some other things going on. I don’t know what they are, but its pretty unusual for a coach to completely miss the boat on every player, pitcher, and situation.

Here's a story about a kid who grew up playing shortstop. It's all he ever played (with the exception of freshman year of college) all the way through college.

From the dad, a college coach - "His versatility is something none of those kids have. The only place he hasn't played is center field and catcher. I told him, there's a reason for everything, you'll get tougher from it."

From the player - Ryan Flaherty said he doesn't mind not having a regular position. He'll do anything it takes to get to Wrigley Field.

The best lesson from the father - For now, Flaherty's father reminds him not to be distracted by things he can't control.

full story

quote:

Originally posted by josephj:
Thanks again for all the responses and I can understand and relate when the parents are one sided but i assure you I am not. I am only presenting what is going on and trying to get feed back on the best approach.

As I write my son is playing for the first time at 3rd to his and my wife's surprise. I am at work and she texts me on the game. She said he had 2 assists and 1 out. He was put in the 9 hole and got a single and rbi. The 3B person was put in LF then just now top of the 4th they take my son off and put him in LF and the 3B person back to 3B and he had back to back errors again and a run scored on his errors which would have shut the inning down.

Would it be best to email him or call? (The coach)

Your son is fifteen. He should talk to the coach. He's a budding young man. It's time for mommy and daddy to cut the cord on standing up for him. Your job now is limited to prepping him for the conversation.

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S4G,

Here is what I was referring to...

From JJ p.1:

"The current 3B player never sits and never plays any other position. His batting is below average. ( I am not just saying that either.) He has 4 errors in the last tournament that caused 5 runs and the game. Yesterday he had 3 errors in a row costing us 2 runs and the game. Last season this 3B never played 3rd once and sat quite a bit because the last coach did not put with his errors."

and

"We have a big kid who can hit 1 out of 12 times put in the 5 hole. He has 11 strike outs so far. He puts this same kid as catcher and he caused 5 runs in one game."

I will make an assumption here. In the games where the 3B alledgedly made multiple errors and where the catcher alledgedly made multiple errors these alledged errors substantially contributed to the losses.

Why would a coach utilize alledgedly error prone and alledgedly underwhelming offensive players when supposedly other more skilled defensive players and supposedly more productive offensive players are available? I need to understand what it is that this coach is trying to accomplish. So far no one has answered that.



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You can read josephj's posts written prior to this thread by clicking at the left side of one of his posts (on his name)and selecting view recent posts.

I found it interesting.

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I'll do that...thanks 3 FG.

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quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
Why would a coach utilize alledgedly error prone ander underwhelming offensive players when supposedly other more skilled defensive players and supposedly more productive offensive players are available? I need to understand what it is that this coach is trying to accomplish. So far no one has answered that.

Depends on the outlook of the team. If the team is part of an organization that intends to prepare kids for college, then typically they try to play the ones that have the talent to succeed at the next level.

To a large extent such teams don't care about errors, which after all are just mistakes. They're much more interested in the plays that a player does make rather than the mistakes. An infielder who is not quick may never make an error, but he may not be able to make any good plays either. The kid with a good batting average, but lacks power, probably won't have either at the next level.

So what is the intent of josephj's son's team? Is it to win games or to identify and develop players? Or some other mission?

And how does that match up with what josephj hopes to get from playing on the team?

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
Why would a coach utilize alledgedly error prone ander underwhelming offensive players when supposedly other more skilled defensive players and supposedly more productive offensive players are available? I need to understand what it is that this coach is trying to accomplish. So far no one has answered that.

Depends on the outlook of the team. If the team is part of an organization that intends to prepare kids for college, then typically they try to play the ones that have the talent to succeed at the next level.

To a large extent such teams don't care about errors, which after all are just mistakes. They're much more interested in the plays that a player does make rather than the mistakes. An infielder who is not quick may never make an error, but he may not be able to make any good plays either. The kid with a good batting average, but lacks power, probably won't have either at the next level.

So what is the intent of josephj's son's team? Is it to win games or to identify and develop players? Or some other mission?

And how does that match up with what josephj hopes to get from playing on the team?

Yes, and another possible scenario is the other end of the spectrum... the "select" team is not strong or deep and the coach doesn't have a lot of options at various positions. Some kids, such as the other 3B and C, can't play other positions, so this is where a paying customer has to be???
We don't know. Lots of possibilities. The parents often don't know all factors going into the coaching decisions and that's OK. Get as much info as is reasonably possible and then commit, support and focus on the benefits.

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Thank you 3 FG. Your response makes a lot of sense to me and coupled with reading JJ's earlier posts things seem to make more sense. I'm guessing the 3B is a relatively big guy and JJ's son is on the smaller side. Who is most likely going to make it at the next level? Probably the bigger guy. More 'projectible' I guess. But again, we don't know what the goals are for the team.

I think JJ is honestly and politely seeking answers and that is what this site is all about. Thank you for your response. I'm sure JJ is appreciative too.



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quote:

Originally posted by josephj:


As I write my son is playing for the first time at 3rd to his and my wife's surprise. I am at work and she texts me on the game. She said he had 2 assists and 1 out. He was put in the 9 hole and got a single and rbi. The 3B person was put in LF then just now top of the 4th they take my son off and put him in LF and the 3B person back to 3B and he had back to back errors again and a run scored on his errors which would have shut the inning down.

Would it be best to email him or call? (The coach)

Huh????
Your son just had the perfect day, considering his situation. He got a shot at what I gather is his preferred position and played well. His primary competitor got back in and did not. This is exactly how these things play out. And it is certainly not unusual for coaches to rotate players on club teams regardless of performance. Why would you want to address the coach now? He is learning first hand what you were hoping he would.

BTW, I totally agree with RJM that your son should be spearheading the conversations with coach himself and face to face. I understand that he said something to the coach earlier. Looks like the coach was listening.

If, at some point, you feel you need to get involved, I don't recommend email or text. Ask for a meeting time that is convenient for the coach and speak face to face. Email and text, IMO, too easy for misinterpretation when it comes to sensitive subject discussion.

Is it me or am I going crazy?

When did we become Posters who recommended and condoned parents to speak to coaches about sons playing time? Doing so is just setting this father up to be one of those Dad's who become a high school or college coach's WORSE nightmare.

What's wrong with learning the basic notion of baseball - "You play yourself ONTO the field and you play yourself OFF of the field. It's up to you"

For petes sake, he's only 15yrs old. The dad is majorly obsessed with what other kids are doing on the field and muttering "my son is better" and therefore should be playing over him. Self-entitlement is being taught.

It does stink that quite possibly this coach doesn't know baseball over shinola. But he's the coach. If he stay's in baseball, it most likely won't be his last bad coach. But learning to deal with one now will prepare him how to deal with one later.

I think cabbagedad makes a very, very valid point. Why on earth would you want to even THINK about calling the coach now? Your son PLAYED ball today. Be happy.

gw,

Please don’t take offense here, I’ll try to explain my thinking when I read things like that.

To say that a player has NEVER come out of a game or to play any other position in at least 12 games I know of, is a stretch for any player other than a legitimate stud or a daddy’s boy in my experience. To say his batting is “below average” is pretty subjective too. Below average on a good summer team might be .350. All I’m saying is, its relative.

Those 4 errors in the “last” tournament may not have been “real” errors, but rather perceived ones, and even if they were, while they would certainly have been a contributing factor to the loss, they certainly couldn’t have been the only reasons for the loss. “3 errors in a row”? How many times have you ever seen a player make 3 consecutive errors on 3 consecutive plays? I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but I am saying its beyond rare.

Last season was last season. We know nothing of what took place, and to tell the truth, it would have to be either a pretty sorry team to keep allowing a player who was that bad on the team, unless there was some “daddyball” going on.

As for the “big kid”, I don’t know. There’s so little to go on, its tough even to guess. But here again, remember what my experience is. I’m a numbers guy up, down, in, and out, and my experience is that its pretty rare for people to remember precise facts about other players. The case seems to be being made that this coach is absolutely horrible in every phase of the game, but again, unless there’s some daddyball goin’ on, its pretty strange to see a lousy hitter put in the 5 slot.

Your question is valid the way you stated it, with the words allegedly and supposedly being very prominent. As far as I can see, if everything said was the gospel, to me it could still mean the coach was in the “development” mode rather than the “win a trophy” mode. For all we know that coach is a HS coach trying to develop players during the summer when they’ll affect the team the least. I know our HS coach does that to the point it drives everyone nuts. But, he’s totally driven to make his spring teams a success, and really couldn’t care a whole lot about the summer and fall teams.

So, I guess the answer is, there is no answer because there’s not enough information to make a judgment.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
You can read josephj's posts written prior to this thread by clicking at the left side of one of his posts (on his name)and selecting view recent posts.

I found it interesting.

I based my answer on looking at former posts, seems like dad had the same concerns this spring.