New Coach not letting Son play his position.

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S4G,

No offense taken at all! I'm learning a few things here. It seems that this coach could have laid out or explained his goals more fully. Perhaps he did and we just don't know about it.

With this statement regarding your HS coach of yours I fully agree...

"But, he’s totally driven to make his spring teams a success, and really couldn’t care a whole lot about the summer and fall teams."

When this is the aim, then the coach should make that aim abundantly clear so there is less animosity and angst!

JJ...are you taking notes?





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quote:

Originally posted by josephj:
Thanks again for all the responses and I can understand and relate when the parents are one sided but i assure you I am not. I am only presenting what is going on and trying to get feed back on the best approach.

As I write my son is playing for the first time at 3rd to his and my wife's surprise. I am at work and she texts me on the game. She said he had 2 assists and 1 out. He was put in the 9 hole and got a single and rbi. The 3B person was put in LF then just now top of the 4th they take my son off and put him in LF and the 3B person back to 3B and he had back to back errors again and a run scored on his errors which would have shut the inning down.

Would it be best to email him or call? (The coach)

You are sitting at work getting second hand information on the OTHER players errors? You should be concerned with YOUR player only.

What would you email or call the coach about?

I am not sure I really get this anymore.

JJ,
I'm going to shift direction for a moment. A few questions if you don't mind me asking...

What is son's height/weight?
What is his 60 time?
What is his throwing velo from IF, OF or the mound?
Of his HS ab's, what % reached or would reach a typical HS OF fence (325 - 375 - 325)?
Same question for a typical on-field BP..?

There are other players on the team The topic new coach not letting son play HIS position.

to the father it is time to realize that despite what you think the final decision is the coaches. It is the reality of the situation. Like it or not.

These are difficult threads to get a pulse on. We are receiving information based on the perspective of the player's dad. IMHO, I'd adhere to Coach May's advice, and take this as an opportunity to branch out as a ball player and learn new positions. Maybe there is a possibility that the "New Coach" feels that JJ's son is more athletic and needs his speed in the outfield? Perhaps the young man playing 3B over JJ's son has struggled, but has more tools to play the hot corner...or maybe JJ is looking at everything through Rose Colored Glasses? I don't know? My son has now played for three different programs in the summer in the past 3 years in three different areas of So Cal. They are all very good, and each one has helped my son progress in his baseball career/life. JJ needs to step back, allow his son to grow as a player. The ability to play multiple postions is going to help him in the near future...my unsolicited advice would be to Relax JJ, let your son play the summer out. If things don't work out, you have the ability to change things next fall/summer. Good luck to JJ's son, I sincerely wish him the best!

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Excellent!




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Its either taken as an opportunity to learn a different position and grow from it. Or its an opportunity to gripe and moan about what your not getting to do.

What happens when your son gets to HS and the starting SS 3B 2B are flat out studs who are simply better than your son? What are you going to do? Tell the coach you can only play 3B or 2B? Or are you going to go out to the outfield and show him you can play the outfield? Wouldn't it be nice to have some valuable experience out there if that happens? What happens when - if - he goes to a college program and he can't beat out the other infielders? Would it be nice to have some experience in the outfield?

I would encourage you to stop focusing on the other players and how much better your son is than they are. That usually doesn't work out too well. Sometimes when we scream for something we get it but it doesn't sit well once we do. Sometimes its better to let things work out.

Parents who sit in the stands and "think about" "talk about" other players usually don't have much fun at the ball park. Be happy your son is in the line up. Anywhere in the line up. There might come a day when you will just be thrilled to see him on the field. And it won't matter what position he is playing.

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"Its either taken as an opportunity to learn a different position and grow from it. Or its an opportunity to gripe and moan about what your not getting to do."

Is there also an opportunity to learn something about the coach? Good coach? Bad coach? Look for another coach next year?

We don't have the otherside of the story, the coach's side, and that makes it tough to sort it all out.




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The coach might be a clown. He could be a serious clown. But that doesn't change anything imo. It's still and opportunity to learn a different position. Its an opportunity to take advantage of a stroke of luck imo. If you can play 3b very well already would it be more valuable to learn another aspect of the game or continue to do what you already do well?

If the coach is not teaching the game, not coaching your son as well as you think he should then move on next year. Sometimes the bad coach who has no clue actually gives you something by accident. He gives you an opportunity no one else would have.

I fail to see how not playing 3b during the summer at 15 is going to hurt a kid. I do see the value in getting the opportunity to learn another position at 15 during the summer. Regardless of how much of a clown the coach is or isn't.

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"Sometimes the bad coach who has no clue actually gives you something by accident. He gives you an opportunity no one else would have."

I agree. And perhaps that is the case with JJ's son. Becoming a baseball player and not just a third baseman is a good accomplishment regardless if that was the coach's intention for JJ's son or not.


Good intentions?...

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quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

You are sitting at work getting second hand information on the OTHER players errors? You should be concerned with YOUR player only.

Oh, come on. You NEVER talked about other players with your spouse?

josephj, I suspect that every parent here has had the same thoughts you have. But, you are getting good advice from them based on their experience.

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"If the coach is not teaching the game, not coaching your son as well as you think he should then move on next year."

I agree with this as well.

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Hey JJ! Whaddya' say? Did any of this help?



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To a certain extent I can emphasize with josephj. My son has been in the same position, i.e. he was a very good 3b and known in our east Texas area for his skill. We changed summer teams before high school and the new coach played him primarily in the outfield (lf,cf and rf). We didn’t understand at the time why. The thirdbaseman coach used was nowhere near the talent (in our opinion). Our son also pitches and played that position as well when needed. At the time he wasn’t put in the outfield because the coach was trying to develop players. There were kids who refused to play outfield and when they did, they played poorly. This was a very talented team known in the travel ball circuit…won a lot of majors tournament, etc. Anyway, all coaches were dads so maybe you can see why the Favoritism. Son is one of those kids who just wants to play baseball so he did whatever he was asked. As his parents, we had to keep quiet and let it play out.
My point is, our son leaned to play another position that he ended up playing in HS on varsity. He was categorized initially as a “utility” player (3b and OF) but primarily pitched and played CF and RF. We were able to get him on a very good summer team his sophomore and junior year in high school and were blessed with very good coaches. He will be going on to play college baseball at a mid-level Div 1 program in the fall as a pitcher. All of the teams, good and bad, helped develop his work ethic and attitude. I don’t mean to preach but developing the best attitude along with the baseball skills is very important.
I have been a lurker for a while on this site and enjoy it very much. Lots of information for parents here.

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Lurk no more 2011gradmom! Welcome to the bright lights. I enjoyed your post. It was very appropriate...and didn't have a picture! How do you do that? I need to learn. Are you available to provide lessons?




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"josephj, I suspect that every parent here has had the same thoughts you have. But, you are getting good advice from them based on their experience."

How very true! Again...that's what this site is all about!




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quote:

Its either taken as an opportunity to learn a different position and grow from it. Or its an opportunity to gripe and moan about what your not getting to do.

the following is a great illustration seems to have worked out well

Posey played college baseball for the Florida State Seminoles under coach Mike Martin. He began his freshman year at FSU playing shortstop, starting all 65 games for the Seminoles, and was named a Louisville Slugger Freshman All-American. He finished his freshman season with a .346 batting average, four home runs and 48 RBIs.[3] As a sophomore, he moved from shortstop to catcher on the suggestion of assistant coach Mike Martin, Jr.[4] He batted .382 with three home runs and 65 RBIs. After just one season of playing the position, Posey was a finalist for the Johnny Bench Award, awarded to the best catcher in college baseball. He would end up finishing behind Edward Easley of the Mississippi State Bulldogs.[5]

In 2008, as a junior, he hit .463 with 26 home runs and 93 RBIs, won the Johnny Bench Award and was named the 2008 Collegiate Baseball Player of the Year.[6

I have a former player that was of the best corner infielders in the state of NC. When he went to college the 3b was last years 3 hole hitter and very good at 3b. The 1b was a big strong athletic kid who hit in the middle of the order as well. He was asked to move behind the plate to give him a chance to get on the field and help the team with depth at that position. There was no way the coach was going to take his 3 and 5 hole hitters out of the line up to put a freshman in the line up at a position he was not as experienced at and lose that offense as well.

In the fall of his freshman year he raked. He was raw behind the plate. But he hit so well they had to find a place to play him. He was used as the dh, got some time behind the plate so he could develop back there and played some 1b when the 1b was used as the dh so he could get some experience there as well. He also played a couple of games in lf and 3b. Why did he get so many opportunities at so many different positions? Because he could hit.

Hit. Produce at the plate. Be willing to play whatever position your asked to play so you can be in the line up somewhere. Because you can't hit if your not playing the field or the dh. And every position player on the roster who is not in the line up that day is competing for the dh position. Hit. And you will be in the line up somewhere. You will find that the longer you play the less you will care about what position your actually playing. The only thing that will really matter is if your name is on the line up card. The more you can do and the more places you can do it the more likely that will happen.

By the way the player was just selected in the 3rd round of the ML Draft. Hit.

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"Hit."

That's what it is all about!

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quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

You are sitting at work getting second hand information on the OTHER players errors? You should be concerned with YOUR player only.

Oh, come on. You NEVER talked about other players with your spouse?

josephj, I suspect that every parent here has had the same thoughts you have. But, you are getting good advice from them based on their experience.

I never came to a website and talked about how good my son was and then trashed others that took his place. How many times does a pitcher work his butt off and then relief blows it, often, but that is part of the game. You take pride in what you do, you do your job the best you can and don't worry about someone elses mistakes, that's up to the coach, manager. And I never called out a coach because he wouldn't play son where WE felt he belonged, or he put in the wrong releiver, never, ever.

The kid finally got into the game and there is still resentment they moved him from HIS position. That is what it is about right? Not being able to play HIS position?

This is a great time for PARENTS to learn more about the game, who plays and why.

A story like Posey's is good example abut learning another position, but it really had nothing to do with position, Posey could hit so they needed to find a way to get him in the lineup. That's it, period.

And in case anyone overlooked what Coach May has said, unless you can hit (as you move up a notch REALLY hit), it really doesn't matter how well you play your position.

quote:

You will find that the longer you play the less you will care about what position your actually playing. The only thing that will really matter is if your name is on the line up card. The more you can do and the more places you can do it the more likely that will happen.

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"And in case anyone overlooked what Coach May has said, unless you can hit (as you move up a notch REALLY hit), it really doesn't matter how well you play your position."

I didn't miss it. I love good, solid defense in any competition and I am sad there is so much emphasis on hitting. But that is how the game is played.

I'll gladly sit down to a whole heaping platter of scrumptious defensive plays and feast on them 'til my belt stretches to just short of becoming a lethal weapon. And then I'll have a modest few offensive feats for dessert. That's the way I am. And if you're anywhere near me after supper be grateful I'm wearing suspenders.




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I read through most of it and it sounds like his summer team isn't a good fit. Time to move on. The kid wants to play third and has a shot at playing third in HS next year. The summer coach playing him everywhere but third is hurting his chances to play third which is what HE wants.

Just like any other program, if it is a bad fit, move on. He went to the coach and nothing happened. Time to find another team. On another note, my son has never played on a team where kids didn't get reps at their prefered spot. Neither have my daughters, at least not since they were 10 or so and the coaches kid played the same spot. You need to leave and find a team that has a clue.

My son is not quite in high school. On his current team, every time he does well, the coach moves him to a new position. My son likes to play 3rd as well and has been disappointed about all the changes, but we talked to him about it and told him his job is to do well where ever he plays.

I think it is great that he is getting experience at other positions. I'm not sure we will be staying with this team, but he was pitched heavily last year and I really wanted him to get experience at other positions.

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Welcome to the HSBBW SportyGirl!



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Thanks for the welcome!

jj,
While there's some disagreement about the coach, I don't think there's much if any disagreement about your best course of action for this season.

You don't call the coach, you don't e-mail the coach, you don't complain, your son just does his best each game and supports his team in whatever way he can.

Going back to the OP, I have some thoughts.

quote:

In the last 12 games he has only played outfield...

If your 15 y/o's "select" team is at all competetive, then outfield is a challenging position and maybe your kid should consider himself lucky to get to play there.

quote:

It is frustrating because he plays well. The current 3B player never sits and never plays any other position. His batting is below average. ( I am not just saying that either.) He has 4 errors in the last tournament that caused 5 runs and the game. Yesterday he had 3 errors in a row costing us 2 runs and the game. Last season this 3B never played 3rd once and sat quite a bit because the last coach did not put with his errors.

If this is really the case, then DON'T WORRY...just wait. There will be plenty of other Dads (it usually starts with the pitcher's Dads), who will be in coach's ear about the all the errors and lack of productivity at 3rd. It won't matter if they're old buddy's, or if the other kid has been with the team for a long time. He'll still get absolutely slain by the other Dads to coach. If that's not happening, then you may be kidding yourself about the difference in performance.

I would rather be the starter at a secondary position than the backup on the bench at my primary position.

I fall in Coach May's thinking here and that you just need to focus on getting better at baseball overall, continue to hit and learn. The coach might just be useless but once you as a parent make that contact with the coach then you will become THAT dad.

I had a kid who came to me as a first baseman and after one year I moved him to CF because he was fast, above average arm, good glove and left handed. He and his family weren't all that happy at first with the move but I told him he was wasting his talent at first and he would be stuck behind a pretty darn good first baseman that had no mobility to play anywhere else. I told him and his family he could go back to first but I doubt he would ever start there. He just finished up his freshman year in college as a CF. He went back to the OF instead of staying at first. Maybe the coach is doing something like this but he hasn't communicated it with your son.

It's one summer and the world won't come to an end. Have him work hard, enjoy learning a new position and rake the ball.

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"Maybe the coach is doing something like this but he hasn't communicated it with your son."

BINGO! Communication...it works! The story you cited coach is a good example.




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A real baseball player could care less where he plays. All he wants is to be on the field and produce where ever he can.

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If that's true then there are baseball players who will need to remove this patch from their shoulder!






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A similar discussion from downunder.




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quote:

Originally posted by No one of consequence:
I'm assuming your son played on the HS freshman team this past spring.Keep in mind that, if your son is going to a 4A or 5A high school in Texas, he's playing some fairly serious ball.

I don't know what school he attends, but his chances of playing varsity next year are going to be determined for the most part by his bat. While I can't necessarily speak for all (or any) Texas HS coaches, but in watching for a few years, I can tell you that if your son can hit, he will stand a much better chance of jumping to varsity next year than if he fixates on playing third base or another infield position. Defensive specialists play in the preseason tournaments, but they watch virtually every district and playoff game.

If they're sure he can rake, they'll find a spot for him in the lineup, and maybe in the field. And the fact that he is playing the outfield right now is a plus, as I see it. Once he proves himself with the bat, he's going to stand a much better chance of winning an outfield spot as a sophomore than getting a coveted infield position.

Tell him to look on the outfield as a positive and a chance to get 4 AB's a game. Heck if he's playing left, he'll have a chance to flag down the ball that get past this summer's third baseman and throw out the runner going to second.

Good luck to him and let next spring and summer take care of itself.

Son plays in a 5A school that had close to 80 kids trying just for the freshman team and after close to 4 weeks and 4 cuts (yes it did happen) he made it and was brought up from the freshman team to the A team. Just this past weekend he did play 3rd for the first time for 3 innings, He had great bats no errors and then the coach took him out put the other guy in and he cost us 3 more runs and we lost the game again. It just's frustrating. Heck I would rather have someone else that can play that position it's not just my kid. I am convinced he does not know how to Coach. I will not approach him nor email we have lost some great games due to his Coaching.

We are told in the beginning of the season that we are not to approach the Coach about play time, we are to keep a distance from the cages. We do pay for the summer program. The coach from last season does go to the games and sits in the dugout but does not coach. We hope that he would talk to this coach and that is all we can do. he knows our son can play (previous coach).

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Thanks for responding JJ. It all sounds very frustrating...and there seems to be no sense in you or your son approaching this coach. Make the best of it and when it's over your son, and likely others, should move on to a team where the fit is better.

As others have advised, there are still good opportunities on this summer team to learn various valuable lessons. Please keep us posted JJ.




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quote:

Originally posted by No one of consequence:
I'm assuming your son played on the HS freshman team this past spring.Keep in mind that, if your son is going to a 4A or 5A high school in Texas, he's playing some fairly serious ball.

I don't know what school he attends, but his chances of playing varsity next year are going to be determined for the most part by his bat. While I can't necessarily speak for all (or any) Texas HS coaches, but in watching for a few years, I can tell you that if your son can hit, he will stand a much better chance of jumping to varsity next year than if he fixates on playing third base or another infield position. Defensive specialists play in the preseason tournaments, but they watch virtually every district and playoff game.

If they're sure he can rake, they'll find a spot for him in the lineup, and maybe in the field. And the fact that he is playing the outfield right now is a plus, as I see it. Once he proves himself with the bat, he's going to stand a much better chance of winning an outfield spot as a sophomore than getting a coveted infield position.

Tell him to look on the outfield as a positive and a chance to get 4 AB's a game. Heck if he's playing left, he'll have a chance to flag down the ball that get past this summer's third baseman and throw out the runner going to second.

Good luck to him and let next spring and summer take care of itself.

Excellent post and all points so very true.! I think this can apply to any HS where there's large competition for few spots. Who cares where you play. At the HS level, every position on the field is as important as the other. This isn't T-ball or Little League where you bury the dandelion picker in RF. Every position is of equal importance. It is the hitting that will seperate the bench players from the starters but when there's competition for spots, you gotta go where the opportunity is. When my kid played, he was a SS throughout the years but played ALL 9 positions and knew the OF was his best shot to make the HS team. Everybody tried out for 2B & SS. Then his bat was what earned a starting spot in lineup. The whole idea is to do whatever you can do to get on the field. Who cares what position it is. Whatever posoition you play, work your tail at it as well as hitting the cages. The only way you can show the coaches what you can do is on the field. If that opportunity is another position, then you go play that position and go take advantage of the opportunity.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:

quote:

Originally posted by No one of consequence:
I'm assuming your son played on the HS freshman team this past spring.Keep in mind that, if your son is going to a 4A or 5A high school in Texas, he's playing some fairly serious ball.

I don't know what school he attends, but his chances of playing varsity next year are going to be determined for the most part by his bat. While I can't necessarily speak for all (or any) Texas HS coaches, but in watching for a few years, I can tell you that if your son can hit, he will stand a much better chance of jumping to varsity next year than if he fixates on playing third base or another infield position. Defensive specialists play in the preseason tournaments, but they watch virtually every district and playoff game.

If they're sure he can rake, they'll find a spot for him in the lineup, and maybe in the field. And the fact that he is playing the outfield right now is a plus, as I see it. Once he proves himself with the bat, he's going to stand a much better chance of winning an outfield spot as a sophomore than getting a coveted infield position.

Tell him to look on the outfield as a positive and a chance to get 4 AB's a game. Heck if he's playing left, he'll have a chance to flag down the ball that get past this summer's third baseman and throw out the runner going to second.

Good luck to him and let next spring and summer take care of itself.

Excellent post and all points so very true.! I think this can apply to any HS where there's large competition for few spots. Who cares where you play. At the HS level, every position on the field is as important as the other. This isn't T-ball or Little League where you bury the dandelion picker in RF. Every position is of equal importance. It is the hitting that will seperate the bench players from the starters but when there's competition for spots, you gotta go where the opportunity is. When my kid played, he was a SS throughout the years but played ALL 9 positions and knew the OF was his best shot to make the HS team. Everybody tried out for 2B & SS. Then his bat was what earned a starting spot in lineup. The whole idea is to do whatever you can do to get on the field. Who cares what position it is. Whatever posoition you play, work your tail at it as well as hitting the cages. The only way you can show the coaches what you can do is on the field. If that opportunity is another position, then you go play that position and go take advantage of the opportunity.

Thanks for all the advice. My said told me these words. "Dad I am glad I am playing and that I can say I play all positions. This Coach is only for the summer and not the fall and I will bust my behind everytime I am out there"

That is enough for me. As he gets older these moments will make him a better person not just for baseball but for life's moments.

His attitude right there is way more important than what position he is playing....
Best wishes I hope you enjoy your baseball journey.

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"That is enough for me. As he gets older these moments will make him a better person not just for baseball but for life's moments."

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quote:

Originally posted by josephj


Thanks for all the advice. My said told me these words. "Dad I am glad I am playing and that I can say I play all positions. This Coach is only for the summer and not the fall and I will bust my behind everytime I am out there"

That is enough for me. As he gets older these moments will make him a better person not just for baseball but for life's moments.

That's how he has to approach it. Besides, once players can establish themselves, many times, things just fall in place and many wind up back back in their best positions.

I remember when my son won a starting spot in the OF, they put him in LF. LF was the spot he spent the least time in. He mostly played RF & CF but he played LF and eventually, he wound up in his best position which was RF since he had one of the strongest arms on the team. But what allowed him to get there was his bat, He was a hitter and the couple of games he didn't start in the field, he was the DH.

Not that defense isn't importamnt, it is, and you don't want a butcher out there who has no clue what he's doing but IMO, trying to get the attention of coaches and trying to win spots, pitching aside, the stick is where you can often make the most impact to impress.