new college baseball scandal

heard about this a couple of weeks ago.  people who are "in the know" that i've talked to are appalled but not shocked. 

The sexual element of the story is disgusting if it’s true. There is no defending any of that if it’s true. The other forms of criticism, intimidation, control, and manipulation are unfortunately not isolated to USF. Some level of that goes on in almost every program. The more competitive the program the more likely it is to exist - especially at ranked D1s. It is largely the result of college baseball becoming big business. But it isn’t a new phenomenon by any means. If you want to look back in time in Texas, you can cite Cliff Gustafson and Wayne Graham as prime examples of being ruthless. In my entire life I have never heard a former player speak kindly of Gustafson. Never.

OMG this is awful. I still cannot understand how this type of behavior goes on for so long unchecked. Big kudos to the players and families willing to stand up against it. It is not easy as so often the victims get vilified and tarnished.

@adbono posted:

The sexual element of the story is disgusting if it’s true. There is no defending any of that if it’s true. The other forms of criticism, intimidation, control, and manipulation are unfortunately not isolated to USF. Some level of that goes on in almost every program. The more competitive the program the more likely it is to exist - especially at ranked D1s. It is largely the result of college baseball becoming big business. But it isn’t a new phenomenon by any means. If you want to look back in time in Texas, you can cite Cliff Gustafson and Wayne Graham as prime examples of being ruthless. In my entire life I have never heard a former player speak kindly of Gustafson. Never.

A friend’s son had nothing nice to say about Garrido. The dad told me one real gross story. Only a real protected coach where winning is more important than character would get away with it. The kid transferred and still become a pro baseball player. He’s now a minor league coach. I think these coaches intimidate and make the players believe they have so much power over them they can’t step forward when the coaches are way out of line.

My daughter dealt with sexual harassment in college softball from teammates. Her lesbian coach didn’t understand what the problem was. My daughter knew if she went up the food chain her playing days there were over. She decided it was either quit playing or put up with it. The school was one of the best in her major. She wasn’t leaving. She solved the problem by having a guy friend act as her boyfriend and wait outside the locker room for her.

I got suspended on another board for posting the following at the time. But it’s the truth. The NCAA did a random poll of female athletes. This was about fifteen years ago. 40% said they were lesbians. It can be worse at schools when the coach is also on the team. It can be a real problem if a young woman is straight.

Definitely a new low for the SFU program, SFU athletic dept, SFU administration and the NCAA.   My thoughts and prayers go out to the players and their families for having to live through this.

I've got lots of oversight questions (because there looks to be none)  that I'll hold until more information is available.

@RJM I can’t imagine why you were suspended from a board for inferring (if not outright stating) that it’s bad that 40% of female athletes are lesbians. Very tolerant view.

@Senna posted:

@RJM I can’t imagine why you were suspended from a board for inferring (if not outright stating) that it’s bad that 40% of female athletes are lesbians. Very tolerant view.

I was told I was intolerant and bigoted for pointing out my daughter was sexually harassed by lesbians.

RJM, I don't see what any of this has to do with this case.  The sexual orientation of athletes has nothing to do with the potential for abuse.  The key thing in your statement is "She decided it was either quit playing or put up with it."  Obviously that's something that happens all the time, men or women, gay or straight.

@anotherparent posted:

RJM, I don't see what any of this has to do with this case.  The sexual orientation of athletes has nothing to do with the potential for abuse.  The key thing in your statement is "She decided it was either quit playing or put up with it."  Obviously that's something that happens all the time, men or women, gay or straight.

Sexual harassment and an attitude of get out of here if you don’t like it. Creating undue stress on athletes outside the stress of competing. Looks the same to me.

Ironically, my daughter became a prosecutor. Due to success she was quickly elevated to prosecuting violent crime including sex crimes.

She’s now in the private sector. She passed on a couple of jobs as a criminal defense attorney. After prosecuting slime balls she didn’t want anything to do with getting affluent slime balls off the hook.

A friend has a son who went to USF as a player. He says he didn’t see any of the alleged behavior, but he was also only there during the COVID shutdown, so that may have played a part. He (my friend) is also good friends with one of the suing parties and, to quote, “the stories are tough”.

No one deserves to go through anything like that, and I am sorry for anyone who had to go through it, including your daughter, @RJM. But whether you intended it or not, your statement about the percentage of lesbian athletes being “worse” is offensive and bigoted.

RJM has the right to say whatever he wants about his daughter’s experience. And he isn’t obligated to worry about whether you agree, disagree, or find it offensive. It’s called freedom of speech.

@Senna posted:

A friend has a son who went to USF as a player. He says he didn’t see any of the alleged behavior, but he was also only there during the COVID shutdown, so that may have played a part. He (my friend) is also good friends with one of the suing parties and, to quote, “the stories are tough”.

No one deserves to go through anything like that, and I am sorry for anyone who had to go through it, including your daughter, @RJM. But whether you intended it or not, your statement about the percentage of lesbian athletes being “worse” is offensive and bigoted.

Please cut and paste the specific comment where I stated it is worse. After you can’t because I didn’t state it feel free to apologize for your accusations.

So RJM, instead of arguing, what would be useful for people to know is:  your daughter is now a lawyer, and times are different.  Would she still say silent about the harassment?  Or would she now expect players to say something?

@RJM posted:

I got suspended on another board for posting the following at the time. But it’s the truth. The NCAA did a random poll of female athletes. This was about fifteen years ago. 40% said they were lesbians. It can be worse at schools when the coach is also on the team. It can be a real problem if a young woman is straight.

See above bold. Either you misspoke (by not clearly saying what was “worse”), or you think that lesbians are bad (since it gets “worse”). Your call.

@Senna posted:

See above bold. Either you misspoke (by not clearly saying what was “worse”), or you think that lesbians are bad (since it gets “worse”). Your call.

tbh, i read it as the harrassment can be "worse". I didn't read it as an opinion that more lesbians are "worse".

@mattys posted:

tbh, i read it as the harrassment can be "worse". I didn't read it as an opinion that more lesbians are "worse".

I think most people read it the way you did. Unfortunately some people are just looking for something to be offended by. Not that anyone cares. They just seem to think that’s their station in life.

Can we get back to the fact that a culture this abusive and frankly bizarre (assuming the allegations are true of course) could escape the AD or University Administration's notice for this many years? How does that happen?

@Senna posted:

See above bold. Either you misspoke (by not clearly saying what was “worse”), or you think that lesbians are bad (since it gets “worse”). Your call.

I didn’t misspeak. You misunderstood. Within the scope of this circumstance what made this experience worse than it otherwise would have been was the coach was also a lesbian. She didn’t feel a woman hitting on another woman and sexual innuendo directed by one woman towards another was an issue. The coach saw it as normal behavior even though my daughter asked the teammate to stop.

Matt Lisle did a social media post on this and then quickly took it down. Obviously the school is on damage control mode now. It's a terrible situation, but, if there's anything positive to come out of it, you can bet money that USF will be a safe place to play in the future. There's no way that they won't be all over this going forward to make sure it never happens again. Just terrible though that it takes the suffering of many in the past to bring cause for reform in the future.

That coach needs mental help.  Those behaviors are in no way appropriate and should be obvious they aren't appropriate

@OskiSD posted:

Can we get back to the fact that a culture this abusive and frankly bizarre (assuming the allegations are true of course) could escape the AD or University Administration's notice for this many years? How does that happen?

not that it should make any difference but you'd think, at a mid-major church affiliated school, this type of behavior wouldn't get the kind of traction it seems to have.