There is an interpretation from Hunter Wendlestedt to the effect that if there is a release of the ball in connection with the catch of a batted ball in flight, or of a throw, a transfer must be successfully made to the throwing hand in order for control of the ball to be established. The release of the ball is now irrelevant.
Originally Posted by Matt13:
Originally Posted by jp24:
I'm confused. We are not talking about "tags."
Example from Cardinal game, where play went their way, but even as a fan, was just not right:
6-4-3 DP.
4 catches ball cleanly from six, pulls ball from glove to throw to 3, drops ball as arm is moving up. Call: no catch.
THAT's the situation where the transfer rule seems to be causing the ruckus. What am I missing?
That play is a tag play. The base is tagged to get the out.
I know you're the ump, but I still must be missing something.
This article implies that this is not a tag play issue at all, by my reading. It even mentions that the Neighborhood play will not be reviewable, so tagging second seems a non-issue:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports...3d-6f0bd6b81611.html
An how is it a tag play when an outfielder catches a ball, but drops it on the transfer, and it's ruled a non-catch?
Color me lost.
They are ruling the transfer or lack of the same, whether batted or thrown.
You are no more lost than the rest of us, this is not how the play has been called in my lifetime except the last 19 days.
I believe the players will adjust faster than managers, umpires (at the ML level) on the field, the announcers, and for sure quicker than us mere fans.
The announcer in the M's Marlins game last night was very confident the out call would stand, as this ball wasn't dropped on the transfer, merely bobbled.
I felt the same after the overturns I'd seen thus far, those were all clearly dropped on the transfer, but this one, like I said, a bobble, it was not a close play, blue was right on top of it, stuck with it as he saw the bobble, waited until the ball was corralled, then nodded his head yes and called the out... so he thought it through, took his time and was sure the ball was not dropped on the transfer, made his call adamantly and still got it wrong in the eyes of the reviewers,
Who are the reviewers, are they umpires, english majors, lawyers? They've doubtfully ever twisted a DP with a 240lber barreling in on em.
Originally Posted by jp24:
An how is it a tag play when an outfielder catches a ball, but drops it on the transfer, and it's ruled a non-catch?
This comment makes me suspect a basic misunderstanding. If that isn't the case, then I apologize.
For the moment, let's leave aside questions of juggled or dropped balls, and instead just consider how the rules of baseball allow an out to be made. For that we need to distinguish between a batter and a runner.
One of the ways a batter can be put out is for a fielder to catch the batted ball before it hits the ground or wall. To get the out, the fielder has to comply with the definition of a catch.
A runner can be put out by being tagged while off a base or if his advance base is tagged when he is forced. A batter-runner can be put out by tagging first base before the B-R touches it. In some instances, runners can be put out on appeal plays by tagging a base. In order to get the out, the fielder has to comply with the definition of a tag.
It isn't possible to put out a batter by tagging him, nor is it possible to put out a runner by catching a fly ball. Baseball treats batters and runners differently, and it is necessary to use the definition of a tag when playing on a runner, and conversely the definition of a catch when playing of an airborne batted ball.
The definitions are related, but not identical. A catch has no particular aspect of time associated with it-- a fielder can juggle the ball or deflect it to a teammate, and as long as one of them ends up with secure possession of the ball and can demonstrate voluntary release, it is a catch. The batter is out no matter how far he has made it around the basepath. On the other hand, for a tag to be valid, the fielder must have secure possession of the ball at the time he applies the tag. Two things are required: 1) a tag of base or player, and 2) secure possession. Exactly what it takes to demonstrate secure possession has now apparently somewhat changed from the traditional view.
In these force plays that are being reviewed, the issue is not whether the bag was tagged, nor if the ball were "caught" --that only matters if the ball had been batted or pitched. Instead the issue is secure possession.
As of last night I love the new transfer rule. It helped the Red Sox come back to win a game they were down 5-0. The runner sure looked out to me.