New Twist On Collisions With Catchers

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
If the fielder has the ability to stand in the baseline, then the runner has the right to make contact.

I may be wrong, but I thought the controversy was because Posey was not in the baseline.

GOOD AGGRESSIVE HITS AT THE PLATE ARE PART OF BASEBALL

Clean, hard, within the tules, hits at the plate should be part of baseball.

AMEN

With all due respect does that mean collisions at all 4 bases are allowed if the fielder is blocking the base? Furthermore, catchers get taken out when standing in front of the plate, why not allow batter-runners take out first basemen too? Yes the runner may be out at 1st but jarring the ball loose could advance other runners.

Actually I disagree. It is not a contact sport otherwise by any stretch of the imagination, the breakup of double plays at the professional level notwithstanding, so why do we allow linebacker-running back type collisions, with one side partially padded, at the plate?


It may be traditional but it makes no sense. Train wreck-type collisions shouldn't happen. If the ball gets there first and the catcher has it, why should the runner, with a head of steam, be allowed to bowl over the somewhat padded catcher? It happens at no other base, in no other situation.


It isn't football. I loved contact sports and love football, but that's where the collisions belong.

Here's another scenario. In an attempt to steal 2nd, instead of sliding, the runner lowers his shoulder into the shortstop. The ball is knocked loose the shortstop is knocked out and the runner at 3rd scores easily.

Aren't they akin to the "blind side" hits that were once prevalent in Hockey? I believe after a couple of injury law suits were filed by players, the "Goons" and their mentality have begun to disappear. I never saw the side show that were those hits and the gloves off fist-a-cuffs having anything legitimate to do with their sport.

Sometimes change is good. Hitters wearing head gear was a good change. Football players wearing facemasks was a good change. Do we really need to take the risk? Is it really worth it? Does it add that much to the game? Is it really worth it? I dont think so.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I may be wrong, but I thought the controversy was because Posey was not in the baseline.

No, I think you're right, but I recall the conversation did evolve into all contact at the plate.

quote:

Originally posted by danno:
With all due respect does that mean collisions at all 4 bases are allowed if the fielder is blocking the base?

Historically, there are two bases where contact can be made. Breaking up a double play at second base and coming home when the catcher is blocking the plate.

I think both are perfectly fine. It's the fielder's job to be in a position where he can get the out and then get out of the way.

As for first or third, that's a little silly. BUT, if the fielder is standing in your path to the next base you absolutely run into him to get the interference (usually happens at younger levels only).

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I may be wrong, but I thought the controversy was because Posey was not in the baseline.

No, I think you're right, but I recall the conversation did evolve into all contact at the plate.

He wasn't blocking it either, clearly shows he was in front of the plate.

For anyone's information, Cousins has been sitting the DL since June 12 (about 15 days after the collision) and as of Aug 6 he was placed on the 60 day DL.

Appears to me that either Posey wasn't the only player hurt in that collision or the Marlins were just very embarassed by a rookie who made a bad decision. His BA was @ .135 his last game played.

IMO, just because the rule says you can do something doesn't always mean it's always smart baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Breaking up a double play at second base...

Why bother to slide? Stay on your feet. Who cares if you get drilled in the ribs? Not me. If a guy's on third, the run will score!

Take one for the team.

quote:

Originally posted by danno:
Here's another scenario. In an attempt to steal 2nd, instead of sliding, the runner lowers his shoulder into the shortstop. The ball is knocked loose the shortstop is knocked out and the runner at 3rd scores easily.

The interpretation provided by MLB:

"While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act-such as grabbing, tackling, intentionally slapping at the baseball, punching, kicking, flagrantly using
his arms or forearms, etc.-to commit an intentional act of interference unrelated to running the bases. Further, if in the judgment of the umpire such intentional act was to prevent a double play, the umpire would rule the batter-runner out as well (see Section 6.3, specifically Play (4)).

Depending on the severity of the infraction, it is possible the player may be ejected for such conduct."

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:

Why bother to slide? Stay on your feet. Who cares if you get drilled in the ribs? Not me. If a guy's on third, the run will score!

Take one for the team.

That's called the "Reggie Jackson Slide."

I think if the catcher would drop a shoulder and fire through the scoring runner while still wearing his full helmet a lot of this sillyness would stop.

Catcher 15:
Most catcher collisions involve a catcher in the process of catching and securing the ball. Are you saying a catcher should abandon an attempt on the ball and instead take out the runner?

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Catcher 15:
Most catcher collisions involve a catcher in the process of catching and securing the ball. Are you saying a catcher should abandon an attempt on the ball and instead take out the runner?

Question not directed to me of course, but.....I'll answer.

Not at all, catch the ball, lower your shoulder, get your butt down and explode right through the runner if he's coming at you. Seen it happen. PU just laughed, after making sure everyone was ok, and said, "I guess he should have slid." I agree, if its going to be allowed, why does the catcher have to take it, assuming he has time.

quote:

Originally posted by catcher15:
I think if the catcher would drop a shoulder and fire through the scoring runner while still wearing his full helmet a lot of this sillyness would stop.

In lacrosse, it's referred to as 'equal pressure'.

I was just wondering why those that thought that the play was ok, didn't comment that Cousins has been out all season.

I am going to ask, was that play early in the season worth two players getting hurt and missing an entire season?

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Catcher 15:
Most catcher collisions involve a catcher in the process of catching and securing the ball. Are you saying a catcher should abandon an attempt on the ball and instead take out the runner?

Hmm - and you thought all those skills from being a nose tackle were no longer relevant...

Hockey players also have transferable skills

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I was just wondering why those that thought that the play was ok, didn't comment that Cousins has been out all season.

I am going to ask, was that play early in the season worth two players getting hurt and missing an entire season?

I should have not brought up the Posey/Cousins collision in this post at all. I don't 100% believe Cousins shouldn't have hit Posey but I do acknowledge that the runner would have been very easily safe if he would have slid well outside.

What I was reacting to was conversation stating that ALL collisions should be avoided at the plate. My theory is if you can't hit the catcher, then he can't block the plate. Heck, might as well make every play at the plate a force.

Of course, if you knew what was going to happen to Posey and Cousins, you wouldn't want to have that collision.

But then you wouldn't want that player last week slide hard into second and accidentally spike the second baseman.

Or if you were Carlos Beltran and Mike Cameron a few years back, you wouldn't go hard for that gapper and risk banging heads.

Maybe Robin Ventura or Jeff Kent wouldn't have tried so hard to beat out an infield single for fear of snapping their legs.

Injuries are part of the game. Unpleasant but unavoidable.

I am not sure that the slide into second and spiking the 2B was accidental.....

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I am not sure that the slide into second and spiking the 2B was accidental.....

Sure looked like it to me. He went in (awfully late), hit the base with his left heel, and the force of him being late jarred his foot up and into the fielder's calf.

He did not come in "spikes high."

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
... My theory is if you can't hit the catcher, then he can't block the plate...

+1