Skip to main content

25 replies

New York City high schools will institute pitch counts

L LJ3813100+ posts
Is New York City the first area to do this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11...l.html?_r=1&emc=eta1

P.S.A.L. Will Institute Pitch CountsBy HARVEY ARATON
Published: November 2, 2010

Pressured by two city councilmen, New York City’s Public Schools Athletic League will announce new guidelines to protect the arms of high school pitchers at a news conference on Wednesday.

Under the threat of legislation by Lewis A. Fidler, a Brooklyn councilman, and G. Oliver Koppell of the Bronx, the P.S.A.L. will set a cap of 105 pitches for one game, according to a person with knowledge of the situation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the league had imposed a news blackout until the official announcement.

In addition to the one-game limit, players will be allowed to pitch on consecutive days provided they have thrown 25 or fewer pitches on the first day. One day of rest will be enforced for outings of 26-53 pitches, two days for 50-70 pitches and three days for 70-90. Coaches — not umpires — will be responsible for keeping track of pitch counts.

Without any established limits and with some pitchers throwing well over 100 per game and coming back on short rest to pitch again, Fidler and Koppell took on the issue last spring and convinced P.S.A.L. officials to study pitch counts and come up with a solution.

“They are moving in the direction they need to move,” Fidler said at the time. “The arrangement is to get a rule, not a recommendation.”

The 105-pitch cap for an 18-year-old meets the standards adopted by Little League Baseball in 2007 in conjunction with the noted orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews and his American Sports Medicine Institute in Birmingham, Ala
"Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who'll fight." Author: General James Gavin
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

J HJ H5,000+ posts
While I do think that these specific pitch count parameters aren't necessarily bad limits for kids of that age, I have a difficult time believing that every single pitcher has the same limit. There are many variables that go into a pitcher's health and recovery...everything from arm strength to mechanics to time in between starts to weather.

As an onlooker, I understand why the PSAL is implementing these rules, because they want to protect their athletes. As a pitcher, I don't mind people looking out for our arms but I feel as though variations must be made depending on each individual case. And as a coach, I'd feel that the new rules are a slap in the face, questioning my ability to help kids succeed.
Last edited by J H
MTHMTH10,000+ posts
The problem with leaving stuff like this in coaches' discretion is the fact that you have a lot of bad coaches out there. Because of them a bright line rule is imperative. Most good coaches will take the rule in stride.

quote:
Originally posted by J H:
While I do think that these specific pitch count parameters aren't necessarily bad limits for kids of that age, I have a difficult time believing that every single pitcher has the same limit. There are many variables that go into a pitcher's health and recovery...everything from arm strength to mechanics to time in between starts to weather.

As an onlooker, I understand why the PSAL is implementing these rules, because they want to protect their athletes. As a pitcher, I don't mind people looking out for our arms but I feel as though variations must be made depending on each individual case. And as a coach, I'd feel that the new rules are a slap in the face, questioning my ability to help kids succeed.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by MTH:
The problem with leaving stuff like this in coaches' discretion is the fact that you have a lot of bad coaches out there.


While I agree with the premise, and your statement, the hairs on the back of my neck are standing at attention thinking that a politician is now the arbiter of good judgement.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Whats next? Each player on the roster must play a certain amount of innings a game? A player who pitches a certain amount of innings is not allowed to return to the field as a position player that day? No breaking pitches for freshman? Where does it stop once it starts?

I don't like this one bit. How about this. These people that are so concerned about all of this can coach the teams. Take the coaches out of the dug outs and let the politicians coach the teams. This is a joke imo.
1baseballdad1baseballdad100+ posts
I said it before and I will say it again. This is exactly what you get when you involve politicians in this sport.

I tried to warn that bats wouldn't be the only thing they go after.

Lewis A. Fidler, same guy pushing the pitch counts now. Flashback to 2007...when NYC was the first to go after metal bats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03...gion/14cnd-bats.html

And this one...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...ive&sid=aGIePfpCV710


Like I said before, it wasn't like this was hard to predict and it isn't going out on a limb to say this type of thing will continue.

Pandora’s box has been forever opened. Whats next? Who knows. The only thing we do know is it will be SOMETHING.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Did you guys read the article and see the pitch counts that these kids were reaching? Just plain scary how a grown man will risk ruining a kid in order to win a baseball game. I think the quote that counts is "And the kid will always say he can keep going.”

And this is after they implemented reporting the pitch counts.
Y Yardbird100+ posts
TRhit,

quote:
“Are you comparing the pitching motion of a softball pitcher to that of a baseball pitcher?”


Read it again? I was comparing injuriousness.

Softball pitchers throw a heavier ball with the same maximal effort as baseball pitchers, even the men who play fast pitch but their mechanics are practically non-injurious so they can pitch every inning of every game.
I was comparing the non-injurious force application of my Marshall mechanics pitchers whom can do the same thing, pitch every game with out injury risk, so why punish these pitchers with these limits designed for a known injurious mechanic the traditional centripetal pitching mechanic that most High school educators (coaches) know and have a handle on.

Being a Tard brainwashed shill might have gotten in the way of my explanation apparently?
Sorry about that!
Last edited by Yardbird
M MHC7710+ posts
As the mom of a pitcher, my first reaction when I read this was positive i.e. protections are generally a good thing. But the more I think about it, the more ridiculous it is. It’s like giving a cup of coffee to a drunk; maybe it does a tiny bit of good, but mostly, it just gives a really false sense of security.

The physical well being of any player begins and ends with his parents…at least until he’s an adult and fully responsible for himself. It’s the parents who need to keep the kid from pitching for two teams at once, make sure he’s not overused during fall/summer travel, ensure he’s trained to use good mechanics, and educate themselves on what conditioning is best for their son rather than just leaving it up to the HS coach. He can’t possibly be a personal trainer to 40-something kids – not when he’s teaching, coaching, maintaining the field and trying to have some semblance of a family life.

I understand that the general rule is that parents shouldn’t talk to the HS coach, and so most are intimidated and stupid rules like this get put into place. Interfering in politics is one thing; speaking up about the physical health of your son is another. I can assure you that if I saw an instance of abuse, my son and/or I would have a polite conversation with the coach to see if it was an oversight or something else. If that ever got my son blackballed (which so many parents are afraid of), so be it. High school ball is not the end all anyway.

Coaches, you have my sympathy on this one.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by fillsfan:
I'm not sure that legislation is the answer but something has to be done to wake up coach Steve Mandl who said this:

“Doctors will argue with me, but even in 40-degree weather, you can go out and throw 160 if it’s done right,”


You can't cure stupid...even with a law.

Add Reply

Post
.

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×