No show to conditioning!

In what sense is it optional if not showing up means you fail to make the team?

At my kids school there is a rule that you are not allowed to attend "optional" workouts if you are in another sport.  So what is the reason the kid doesn't show?  Bad attitude or other commitments? 

 

There is an old story about Walter Payton.  He was famously known for working out by himself during the offseason.  He would run hills that would make mortals puke.  One year a bunch of new guys showed up at training camp.  They thought it was BS that Walter didn't have to attend offseason workouts like they had to.  He go the ball the first carry of the scrimmage.  Cut left, cut right and blew away the defense down the field.  The players looked at each other and said "I now understand." 

I don't think comparing a pro-athlete to a high school kid is the way to go here.  Teaching high school athletes to be committed to their teammates and the process of what it takes to be a championship type team is part of coaching at the high school level.  Yes, conditioning is optional, but is it?  How committed is a high school baseball player to the team and his teammates if he isn't willing to attend optional conditioning?  I had a coach once say he would rather coach a less talented, committed, hard working kid than a superstar who doesn't buy into the team first mentality.

 

 

 

 

My son 1 summer didn't attend any of the optional conditioning with his teammates; yet was named team captain by the players.  Was he the best player? Not at all.  What the coaches and his teammates knew was that he had a job that would require him to leave workouts early and possibly be late to work. They knew that he was in the weight room and on the track at 5:30 am every morning and that he played in tournaments on weekends and leagues at night.

Don't assume just because the kid isn't at the workouts with everyone else, he isn't putting n the time and effort. What only 1 coach and 2 kids knew about my son; was that I had been unemployed for 9 months and he was working to help his family. He was paying for his own tournament team, his own gas to and from tournaments/games and bought his own bat and glove.

Passion are you a coach that's mad at a player? Or are you a parent of a player that is not happy about another player not showing up? Sounds like you have some other motive behind this question.

How old is this kid...is it his choice not to go to the optional conditioning or would his parents have to get him there?  I personally am an avid baseball mom but my husband doesn't care about sports, never has, never will.  We have "voluntary" hitting practice every Sunday from 3-5...do you think I have EVER used the word voluntary with my husband?  Heck no, I tell him we have practice.  Is it possible this kid IS motivated but his parents see the word "optional" and tell him he's not going?

My son works our hard during school in personal fitness, is doing a 4-day a week weighted ball training, and also works out on his own such that as a parent I enforce a one full day off from working out per week. His HS coach knows this and he LOOKS like he takes conditioning seriously. He goes to team BP and pitcher/catcher sessions. But he skips the optional conditioning/lifting sessions.

Good stuff OA5II. 

 

If it is optional then there should be no penalty imho.  If kids who are not attending are feeling pressure, perhaps let the coach know they are still working out while attending to other more important commitments i.e., job, family, another sport, etc.  

I do not want to speak for Passion, but his BIO says he is a HS coach in Georgia. From what I gleaned from other posts, I believe he is addressing other coaches. 

 

Passion I am not a coach but my opinion is, as a coach you can cut a kid who does not show up to optional work outs, but you better not give that as the reason. You need to have another valid reason that you can hold up. Even if it is he is not a team player and his attitude is poisoning the team, but have specifics and examples. 

 

As a parent my player only missed optional work outs once in HS.

They were at 5:30 in the morning. Many of the upper class-men missed them but they still made the team and played. This attitude effected many of the lower class-men and they chose not to attend either. The results were pretty clear in the spring who was ready and who was not. 

I think the top baseball players should make the team. It shouldn't matter if a player attended an optional conditioning program most likely being ran by someone that isn't trained to run a conditioning program in the first place.

All I can say is that when I played HS ball in Georgia, I maintained gpa over 3.5, worked as a bus boy/pizza driver, went to the gym and never missed optional conditioning, practices or games.

 

I think part of the problem with HS sports today is the lack of commitment to the high school team and possibly a sense of entitlement of some players because they are on an elite travel team and they feel they are better than the HS team so they don't need to show up to the optional stuff.  Or maybe they feel they can just have their parent complain to the ad or principal and then they would play even if they don't deserve it.

 

All I am saying is to be a part of a team if you are a serious, committed HS ball player, is you show up to the optional stuff and you find ways to balance out everything. 

 

Being raised by a single mother, I had to fend for myself a lot of the times and I managed my time wisely and still showed up.

 

Not to mention if you don't show up to optional stuff in college, you'll be lucky to even be on the team anymore.

It's not optional if you can be cut for it.  Is the word "optional" just attached to the workouts to get around a state or school rule on contacts/practices, etc.?

In Georgia you can't cut a kid for not attending optional workouts.  I don't know how it works in other states.

 

 

If it was mandatory, I would have an issue with no-shows...

 

If it's 'optional', the no-shows are probably studs and/or have a legitimate reasons... more than likely the kids are doing things on their own...

 

I have absolutely zero problem with this...

 

Also, as far as TEAM COMMITMENT goes... Our team has 2+ hour practices 4-5 times a week... They are together and commit ALL that time to the team...

 

 

 

 

There may  be valid reasons such as others have stated.  I know way back in the dark ages when I was in HS (70's), I was a swimmer.  I swam year round on a club team.  When HS season came around, the HS swim team practiced in the mornings at the local YMCA for an hour.  Since I swam 5 days a week, 2 hours a day at an aquatic club in the evenings, I did not have to attend team practices.  I would go sometimes, but it wasn't a requirement because of what I was doing with the aquatic club.  I don't think it is the times we are in, and I don't think not going to "optional" workouts is a reflection of attitude - necessarily.  If the kid in question is doing what would be done during the optional workouts, then it should be OK.  If he is doing nothing for conditioning and not showing up, that is a different story.

 

Either way, if someone can be punished for not attending "optional" workouts, then they are not really optional at all.  More than likely they are being called that because of state rule and this coach is circumventing the rules by cutting a kid for not attending them.

If it's optional, it's optional.  Perhaps, the player's parents can't take off work for optional workouts, and are saving up all of their "leave work early" excuses for official practices and games. Maybe the player is focused on getting a 4.0 and wants to be ahead of the game before official practices start.  Maybe they're struggling with school.  Who knows.  There's a reason that the rules limit the amount of official practices.  Getting around them with mandatory "optional" practices seems to be breaking the rules, at least in spirit, if not letter.  If coaches expect the players to obey rules in spirit and letter, than why shouldn't coaches obey the rules? Is "because everyone else is doing it" a good, moral answer? [See HOF vote today for Bonds and Clemens]

 

Also, not playing your best will backfire. You will be judged based on how you treat your players and how you do on the field. Not playing your best players (who otherwise aren't attitude problems)  because they didn't go to an "optional" practice is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I've yet to see a coach do it, when push comes to shove.

Then what is the point of doing optional conditioning before tryouts?  Why not just wait until the first day of tryouts?  Might as well not even do a fall ball season if kids don't have to play on the fall ball team.  I guess every coach's hourly rate would go up if all they did was coach in the spring hs season. 

 

I have always played for coaches that expect you to be there even if it is optional.

Optional is optional.  You can't possibly know each and every player's reasons for showing up or not.  I know it may shock you, but high school baseball isn't the pinnacle of life for some of these kids.  It isn't a question of not being dedicated to the team - it's a matter of keeping priorities straight.  It's not reasonable to expect a player to put baseball above everything else in their lives 12 months a year just because you think that is what it takes to be a team player.

 

It's far more reasonable to expect players to show up in shape, ready to play on the first day of tryouts.  How they get to that point shouldn't be a concern.  If they don't show up ready, then they don't make the team. Once you have established that standard, then who does or doesn't show up for optional "conditioning" isn't something to worry about. Put the best players on the field and move on.

 

You can't compare high school ball to college ball.  None of these players are on scholarship.  Most likely they aren't going on to play in college, and are far more likely to get benefit from other activities outside of baseball.

 

 

 

 

Rob T,

 

You make some very good points.  Thanks.

I think the point is that the coaches want kids to be in good shape, ready to go when the season starts.  I know here in Georgia, tryouts are the last week of January/first week of February.  Games start two weeks from then and you're off and running.  Kids do need to be in shape prior to tryouts.  Whether they do that thru the coach's "optional" workouts or thru their own workouts shouldn't matter.  What matters is that they show up ready to play.  These workouts should be for the kids who do not have another way to be game ready by the time the tryouts start.

Coach, what kind of workouts are these?  It says on the website of my son's GA High School:

 

"The Head Baseball Coach is not allowed to hold practices of more than 2 people or other activities from July 1 until Spring Tryouts the last week of January.  Towards the end of October after fall ball is over, the Head Coach will start holding 2 on 1 sessions which he will schedule.  These are High School Baseball rules"

 

Is the kid missing one of those?  Or is it just normal team condition training?

Maybe some of the kids need and would love the extra work...?

Our team had Three 2014 PG All-Americans/2014 PG National Showcase Participants, and committed D-1 Seniors not play this fall ball at all this year... So you think they shouldn't play in the Spring...?

 

Really...?

Optional is optional and you should not be cut based on your decision to attend or not.  If the intention is for everyone to show up then its no longer optional.

 

 Here in IL most schools run optional conditioning for a few months prior to tryouts.  Our school has a rule that if your in an active season you can not attend optional practices.  This keeps the in season athletes from getting hurt at an optional practice.  Most of the kids that show up to the optional practice are either kids out of season who do not play travel ball or kids who are out of season and have not made the team in the past.  

 

If you take my kid for instance.  He is currently playing basketball and is not allowed to attend the optional practice.  He is leaning towards not playing basketball next season.  Even if he doesn't he probably won't attend the optional workouts every day.  His travel team  has hitting and long toss on Wednesdays, Physical conditioning on Thursdays, Hitting and Physical conditioning on Saturdays.  Hitting, bullpen and infield on Sundays.  In addition he works with his pitching and hitting coaches on Sunday's before team practices.  They have also setup a workout program for the off days that they kids are expected to follow.  I don't really see where he would benefit from a student run optional "conditioning program".

This question is crazy. It's like a teacher asking, "Is it OK to give a C to a kid who got a 95 for the course but didn't do any extra credit?"

 

Be ready for some serious blowback if you do what you seem to be considering.

Originally Posted by Passion4baseball:

Then what is the point of doing optional conditioning before tryouts?  Why not just wait until the first day of tryouts?  Might as well not even do a fall ball season if kids don't have to play on the fall ball team.  I guess every coach's hourly rate would go up if all they did was coach in the spring hs season. 

 

I have always played for coaches that expect you to be there even if it is optional.

 

Your question should be “what is the point of doing any conditioning before tryouts?” Will a month’s worth of conditioning turn any HS aged kid from Arnold Stang into Arnold Schwarzenegger? I don’t think so. But is that the real point? Personally, I’ve always seen it as giving players who aren’t in condition to play baseball as hard as they can, to get prepared. The main reason I see for it is to avoid as many injuries as possible because of bodies that aren’t prepared for the rigors of sport.

 

To me there are 3 things to look for and they can produce very different results.

 

Do you want to see which players are the most dedicated to the team?

Do you want to make sure as many unnecessary injuries as possible are avoided?

Do you want to see the players with the best baseball skills?

 

 

As a parent of a kid in Georgia who is in his senior season we are faced with this dilema. My son will be playing college ball next year and his college coach told him that his number 1 goal should be to add weight and muscle before he comes over to start his college season. To me this off season conditioning is a constant dilema because we want our son to participate but it is just the opposite of what he needs to be doing for his college team. It is very hard to gain weight when you are running excessively.

Definitely agree with the "optional means just that ...optional" theory.  Righthooks Asst V coach, who took over the summer program this past summer, used his summer program to hire a personal trainer to attend their Fall "optional" workouts.  There was a great turnout from the kids, usually around 30 showing up every morning from I believe 6-7 am. But, the great turnout in itself was the problem.  This Asst coach is a great rah-rah guy and liked to post pictures of the morning turnouts on the summer clubs facebook page.  It was more like a social gathering, 5-6 kids standing around waiting for their turn to do whatever the excercise was.  They spent almost 3 weeks working on technique.  I spoke with my son and presented an optional workout, same time, but one on one with me at my agencies gym.  He chose to work out with me.  He did not play with the Fall team because he was recovering from an injury.  None of the players, and probably this Asst Coach, believe he was working out.  He was/is just wrapping up his weighted ball throwing program, none of them believe he has been throwing.  Tryouts are in just a couple of weeks, so he'll find out then if not going to the "optional" workouts will be held against him.  If it is held against him, whatever, there is the summer team.  But, it will reflect very poorly on the HC of the program (who has been quoted in the past as saying "I won't do anything extra if I'm not being paid".We shall see.  I do believe kids need to show up condiotioned and reday to go.  That shold be pretty evident at the first day of tryouts, and THAT should be a factor in the decision to keep or cut...not whether they went to the "optionals" or not

If it's not optional then it's illegal. Maybe instead of calling kids elitist or uncommitted we should be more worried about coaches that are cheaters.

Our HS has optional workouts and that's what they are. It's primarily to give the kids that don't play fall sports something to do.

Our HS basketball coach put it this way.  Official tryouts are only a few days.  No way is that enough time to really get to know a player.  If you don't participate in the "optional" workouts you many not be getting the looks you need to make the team. 

 

The reality is that "optional" doesn't mean optional.  It is used to circumvent the rules.  We all know that.  If you are not in another sport, you should probably go at least for the "face time." 

That makes sense for a freshman, a bubble player, a transfer -- anybody who needs an extra chance to make an impression.  But the OP has implied that he's thinking about cutting players whose skills are known and could even be among his best players.

 

For several reasons spelled out above, cutting these guys for not attending optional workouts is not a smart idea.

Tryouts are tryouts.  We as coaches want good players, but at the end of the day we want kids who are committed to the program and who are going to work hard and compete everyday in practice and in games.  I don't cut kids because they don't come to optional stuff but if the last roster spot comes down to two kids who are the same level baseball player:

A- came to everything optional and mandatory

B- only came to mandatory

 

Who would you take?

First of all, there are no ties in baseball.  I'd figure out which player was giving more in practice.  But for the sake of the hypothetical,  if at the end  of the day I really couldn't figure out which guy was more deserving of the seat at the end of the bench, and both were really giving it their all, I'd buy another jersey.  Out of my own pocket if necessary.

 

Second, this hypothetical is totally different than what you posted in the OP and after that.

Golfman, good points, passion I think you hit the nail on the head.  We all know as coaches that when it comes to who gets the push it goes to the kids who at least appear to be more committed.   Are you going to cut a super star who missed some workouts?  No.  May frustrate you but you won't cut him. But the borderline kids absolutely keep the ones who showed more interest.  As for 'cheating' think what you want but every successful program I have known does it at least by the given definition here.  And as golfman stated optional isn't really optional.  Think of it more as 'highly recommended'!

I think that this is an issue with kids that aren't committed as much as some others.  My son rarely went to his HS optional workouts mainly because they where poorly organized and didn't occur regularly.  He did workout on his own.

 

Now that he is in college they have optional workouts but they really aren't optional.

 

As frustrating as this is for coaches in building a team atmosphere unless the kid missing workouts is a stud his missing workouts will show up in his lack of conditioning.

So, Passion, do you think the state ban on mandatory practices has a purpose or do you believe it is a bunch of BS?

This is such a hard position. Optional definitely means optional and I don't think you can cut a kid because he didn't attend optional conditioning. However, if a kid is less prepared come tryouts because he didn't attend, then you do have a leg to stand on in cutting them, if it should come to that. Each person has a choice, but with those choices come consequences. As a parent, I can only influence my kid and teach him to worry only about himself.

 

My son has attended every optional hitting workout since Thanksgiving, even though those workouts are at 5:30 am three days per week. We are lucky in that we live within a block of the high school so it's not an issue for him to walk. Other kids don't have the same luxury and I can see hardships in getting to school at that hour. However, the few kids my son has spoken to aren't coming because they value their sleep more. That's ok. It's their choice and nothing we can do about it. None of them are working out extra after school or playing on high level travel teams. They just don't want to come.

 

My son played with the high school team as an incoming freshman last summer, so the coaches know him and what he can do. But he wants to get better, so he puts in the work. I think it will be clear come tryouts who takes the game seriously and is prepared. If I was the coach, I would let the tryout be the most pertinent in informing your decision. I think it will be clear to you who has been putting in the work in the off season and who hasn't. You will see that in just a few days of tryouts. Especially if kids are working out on their own and cannot make the optional workouts for other reasons.

I would add, that almost evrywhere, "optional" rarely means "optional" for the marginal player. Our state bans mandatory practice until a certain date, but I was shocked to hear my son describe the "open gyms" for basketball as organized practices with the coaches who actually referred to them as "tryouts."

First, I'd want to know if the kid who didn't make optional workouts worked out on his own. Otherwise I might be tempted to think, "Jeez. This other guy made all the off-season optional workouts and still is no further along than the guy who sat on his butt. I wonder who would be better after a month of mandatory work?"

       
       
Don't know if passion wants to take this on but I will gladly.  I completely think the rules are BS.  They show a complete lack of understanding of the sport and a total disregard for safety in regards to arm health.  Let's suppose we are all 'honest' and we have no 'workouts' before the legal date.  From our first legal date in my state to our first game is a total of 6 days.  Even if you take just a single day for player assessment that leaves you just five days to get game ready.  5 days!!  Assuming kids were not throwing on their own (and not every parent can afford private lessons) there is great danger in putting them on the mound in a competitive situation after 5 days.  Assuming they work on their own with no instruction they may be developing bad and potentially injurious mechanics.  Then there is the defensive part of the game...  all pick offs bunt coverages, 1st & 3rds etc. Covered in 5 days?  Ludicrous.  Yes the rules are a huge load of BS.  We need some people at the state level who understand the game to rewrite the 'rules'.  And at my school it is mandated that we stay within the rules.  A great source of frustration for me.