No show to conditioning!

I agree, actually for the very same reasons. I assume the purpose is more to protect sports from overlap than it is about health.

Originally Posted by jolietboy:

Don't know if passion wants to take this on but I will gladly.  I completely think the rules are BS.  They show a complete lack of understanding of the sport and a total disregard for safety in regards to arm health.  Let's suppose we are all 'honest' and we have no 'workouts' before the legal date.  From our first legal date in my state to our first game is a total of 6 days.  Even if you take just a single day for player assessment that leaves you just five days to get game ready.  5 days!!  Assuming kids were not throwing on their own (and not every parent can afford private lessons) there is great danger in putting them on the mound in a competitive situation after 5 days.  Assuming they work on their own with no instruction they may be developing bad and potentially injurious mechanics.  Then there is the defensive part of the game...  all pick offs bunt coverages, 1st & 3rds etc. Covered in 5 days?  Ludicrous.  Yes the rules are a huge load of BS.  We need some people at the state level who understand the game to rewrite the 'rules'.  And at my school it is mandated that we stay within the rules.  A great source of frustration for me.

Forgive me if I get your state wrong. I’m only using the zip code in your profile as a guide. If that’s so, on the WIAAWI site it says the earliest practice is 3/23 and earliest 1^st game is 4/1. What’s kinda kool is, when you look in the handbook, the earliest practice is the 23^rd and the earliest 1^st game is the 31^st! I guess the folks in the state office need to look a little more closely at what they’re puttin’ out.

But for all intents and purposes you’re correct, that doesn’t leave a lot of practice time. Here in NorCal, the earliest practice is 4/9 and earliest 1^st game is 4/21. Granted, yours is less, but like ours, no one is twisting your arm behind your back and forcing you to play on those 1^st dates. In fact, what many teams here do, is spend those 2 weeks practicing, then play the 2 allowable scrimmages in the 2 following weeks, in essence making it a total of over a month of “spring training”.

I know we’ve got a far different weather situation here, but here’s the thing. Y’all aren’t competing with us. You’re competing with other teams theoretically following the same rules yours does. So the only advantage really is to those who have an extremely high number of players, those that have a lot of $$$$$ to work with, or to those that cheat, and that’s universal.

When I 1^st got into this stuff many years back, what was pointed out to me was that the only games having an impact on the post-season play were the league/conference games, and since those were seldom scheduled prior to the middle of March giving teams at least a month and a half, there was plenty of time for teams to iron out most of their kinks. But again, you guys aren’t playing teams from the sun-belt. You’re playing teams with the same restrictions you have, so I’m having trouble seeing the big deal.

Where I do empathize, is that the rules don’t always seem to take into account that the sports are all different and should all be handled differently. Whenever I get into this “discussion” with the powers to be around here, I get told that the schools vote on the rules, and if they really want to change them somehow, it’s on them. Sadly, that’s a Hell of a lot easier said than done, but it is true nonetheless. Challenge those schmucks! If you can get some other coaches and ADs on your side, you should be able to get those dates changed to something more reasonable. But in the interim, kudos to your school for setting a great example on the rules!

GOOD LUCK!

They all say that don't they?  Let's be honest, there are plenty of talented guys that get away with more than the untalented hard worker does.  It sounds good to say it, but when the rubber hits the road, how many truly stand 100% by this.  I don't think near as many hold to it as those go around and saying it.  Maybe more so at the high school level, but there are plenty of examples of players not fully buying in that are allowed to continue playing because they are so physically gifted.

Hey Stats, I'm hoping you just got your months wrong or else MT will be waaaaay behind and may head to another rough season.  Pitchers and catchers start 2/2.   

That's exactly what I was thinking.  The "Optional" workouts help all to get in shape and be prepared for the season.  Although I think players should make every effort to attend them, and I do believe many coaches will hold it against a player for not attending, it is ultimately the players responsibility to show up at the tryouts ready to play.  If he is not, then he will probably be cut.  Not based on the fact that he didn't attend the workouts, but because he didn't put in the work. 

Our son attends all practices, optional workouts/conditioning, and private lessons that he can.  I believe that kind of commitment is necessary for most, but some aren't willing to put the work in.  Or, it is just their priorities are different.  Priorities speak volumes to coaches IMHO.  If you have important things that you must attend, and therefore, won't be at an optional workout, it probably wouldn't hurt to keep your coach in the loop.

I don't think most coaches would share your same view.  All things being equal, the kid who comes to the workouts would generally get the nod.

Question:  when you guys talk about workouts (whether optional or not) prior to tryouts or practice, I am only assuming these workouts consist of running, weightlifting and conditioning...right?  Not sure how certain states work, but I believe in my area, no coached organized baseball workouts (that includes batting, fielding, pitching) are allowed during dead period.  I'm going to guess that's the same across the board..?

 Hey Coach are the off season workouts mandatory?

No son they are not, and neither is your playing time!

Let's approach this from a different angle.........

Anyone think a HS Coach should be hired/not hired if they don't show up for optional training before they are hired?

My son attends a private HS in SoCal. If you are still on the team by your sophomore year, you have baseball class to go to. All the Varsity and JV players have been running, fielding, hitting, and pitching since September. The optional workouts in the Fall are morning weight lifting. Some of the athletes travel 15 miles or more to attend this school. The Coach switched the morning lifting to the afternoon.

A - however if the same situation exists yet B is a much better player take B.  When my son played HS (last year) none of the best players made all or even many of the summer "optional" workouts as they where playing on good travel teams, working with personal instructors etc.  the kids that made all the optional workouts where all cut during tryouts.  Reason?  The couldn't compete with the talented travel team kids.  

I posted something previously, but upon review have decided to re-post.

I will sum it up this way...life is but a series of "optional" or "voluntary" practices and workouts.

Picking up trash on the ground, rather than walking by it, is optional.  Sending a thank you note upon receiving a gift is optional.  Holding open the door for an elderly lady at the grocery store, optional.

Bottom line, some will, and some won't.   Everything we do in life is a building block on our resume.  Perhaps this coach wants a more complete resume with regards to those that he chooses to represent his program.  I think that makes a lot of sense!

We have a H.C. that starts on the first day of tryouts and then is done last game.Optional or not just having the conversation about subject here would be really nice.

He better be able to do more with less. If not he will have more time to less with more.

In Ohio, They have gotten a bit smarter with sports IMO. They have set time before tryouts (like a month or 2) of time where a coach can coach up to 4 players at a time. There are more restrictions I believe but the bottom line is at my son's former HS, the coaches in baseball set up work out times by schedule as far as baseball. So last year (and I know they are doing it this year as well) they had 3-4 nights a week where players came in and worked on hitting and or pitching/throwing. My son, who was a basketball player as well, came in on Wednesday and Sundays to throw/ get his arm in shape and hit. His work out was rarely more than an hour because it was such a small specific group that was working so it went quickly. In basketball it was the same in the fall, 4 guys at a time working on shooting and whatever else drill coach thought would help.  It made a huge difference in both but specifically in baseball it showed.

What it did was get our pitching ready for season. Tryouts in Ohio are something like last week of February and are historically done indoors due to weather. Games start about 3 week later. By doing the winter workouts, our pitchers got thier arms in shape without hurrying to get ready for games. By game time, our starting pitchers were ready to throw 70-90 pitches first time out. The hitting was much better because of the reps as well

But the workouts were optional, I had a long talk with asst HC (he is a personal friend) who ran this because he was mad about a few not coming who were not in a winter sports and even one who was. Of those boys, 2 were working out with summer team/ personal trainers, the others were just lazy.I basically told him what someone else said above. Which was they are optional but when it came time to have tryouts he would see who had done any work at all. According to him it was very obvious at tryouts. The 2 who had done the work but not been at optional were ready and made team, The others did not because someone had outworked them.

Our former HC (he was replaced after last season) had same idea as someones HC, It wasn' his job until tryouts and thru end of last game, that was all. Asst V coaches stepped up and did the entire winter workouts. This year one of those Asst coaches is HC.

I'm a big fan of "optional" conditioning because the athletes that truly want to improve will make an effort to attend. At the HS level there will always be reasons why some players can't attend the workouts even though they desire to. It sounds like some of the posters on this topic have sons in this situation, and I'm kind of shocked at the backlash towards the OP's question. No, I don't think a player should be cut for skipping "optional" pre-season conditioning sessions, but depending on the player it can certainly have an affect on his playing time.

Coaches know which players are dedicated to improving and helping the team. They are around the players enough to see who gives more effort than others. Coaches don't need to have "optional" conditioning sessions to determine who is dedicated and who is not. However, holding "optional" conditioning sessions is just another way to gauge a players effort level, and possibly determine who some leaders on the team are going to be.

Also, a few posters noted that HS players' commitment level shouldn't be compared to a college players' commitment level. Why not? This kind of lesson goes well beyond athletics. When employers look to hire I think they look for the kind of applicant who is going to do more than just the bare minimum. They want to find someone who is willing to do the "optional" work required for success. 

Continuing off that last point, for those of you fortunate enough to play at the collegiate level you know that the word "optional" meant mandatory. Even if was some non-baseball event our coach expected us to be committed and show up. I'd be willing to bet that the players on your HS team who desire to play baseball in college are much more likely to show up to "optional" conditioning sessions.

To sum everything up, no I don't think players who skip "optional" conditioning sessions should be punished by being cut, but I believe the players who make an effort to improve and show commitment should be rewarded.

It's just like all things in life.  I love folks who put in extra effort at work and are always doing the little things.  But, at the end of the day, a salesperson who closes $1m in business in a 40 hour work week is worth more to me than one who works really hard but can't close a deal--or an engineer who puts in extra hours but can't finish the project vs one who works his normal 40 but gets things done.  If things were equal that's one thing (and the one who works hard will always get extra chances--I love underdog stories and hard workers), but I'm responsible for the bottom line.  Plus, you never know how much hard work and learning the person had to put in in the past (or when you're not looking) to get to the stage where they can get more done in less time now.   

Coach,

Are those stripped game socks optional or mandatory to wear during games? That could go a long way to figure who will show up for the workouts! 

I like it! Haha I want to clarify from my previous post though. I don't think players should be rewarded as much as I think they will be rewarded. I'm a firm believer in "hard work pays off" and the players who put forth the extra effort have their chances for success increase. With that being said, I agree with what mcloven stated above. If you have two players and Player A works super hard but just isn't quite as talented as Player B who is a great player but has an average work ethic, as a coach you're going to play the player who gives your team the best chance to win. I think in this situation it's the coaches job to work with Player B to try to get him to understand the benefit of buying in and becoming a more dedicated and committed player. 

Again I agree with you... In my situation it is very hard to get the talented players who aren't playing a winter sport to come out because we are not very deep. Not being deep means that there is no one to push them for playing time and those players know it. It is the perfect storm for laziness. 

Part of what we are trying to do is changing the mindset of "Good enough is good enough"

that's the oldest question in the book and everyone know's that you take the kid with the hottest mom. If you don't know which has the hottest mom then you aren't attending enough of the optional stuff

I can't say for every state but in the State of Illinois, you can't hold this against a player.  You can't take roll.  You can't coach.  ... 

I had workouts everyday of the week starting at 6 in the morning.  They truly were optional.  I provided the opportunity.  If players took advantage of it, they were going to be stronger and faster.  Those that participated had the opportunity to gain starting positions because they were better prepared.  However, I never said that player A showed up and player B didn't so player A is on the team or a starter or a ...  BTW, some school such as the one I am at typically has the AD show up once in a while to observe our open gym/optional workout. 

I understand your frustration but if you announce that you are cutting players because they didn't come to optional workouts, you're going to lose your job.  Either that or your school will get sued and probably sanctioned by the state association. 

Look, you offer it for those that want to attend.  You offer it as a way of building a program.  It might take a long time before you get this instilled in your teams.  I offered plyometrics and weights.  At first, players thought it was hard and didn't want to show up.  Then, it just kind of took off.  Before I knew it, I had track team members there.  I had most of the baseball team there.  We never touched a ball that entire time and I did it from late October until we had tryouts in the middle of February.  One other thing, you might have to look at yourself here.  What are you doing to get them there? 

A friend of my son's asks my son to stay after school every day and throw with him.  He never missed a single optional work out. either.  When I asked the friend why he was always here he said "I want to make the team."  he knew he was on the bubble and was doing whatever he could to end up on the good side of the cut off line.