quote:Most pitchers vary between 70 and 90 % of their standing height.
Have a link? Or is this just a "yard" conclusion?
Have a link? Or is this just a "yard" conclusion?
Have a link? Or is this just a "yard" conclusion?
YB Crow hopping is a balk !.
The whole idea of coming set is to take away things like the crow hop !
Maybe you could explain how you can crow hop and then come set !
The whole idea of coming set is to take away things like the crow hop !
Maybe you could explain how you can crow hop and then come set !
I am sure you have just contradicted yourself! Earlier you said Bauer stood behind the mound and Crow stepped (similar to Marshall shorter stride technique) to attain 94 MPH’s, now if he did the same thing from the mound the downwards slope would add velocity.
Bauer is the perfect candidate for Marshalls techniques as are all.
No he had the additional leg drive you said did not improve velocity and it was(is) not anywhere near what Marshall has taught. He does this from the top of the mound.
SoS.
I have seen the data on stride length near 90% elsewhere Bobby is not making this up.
Bauer is the perfect candidate for Marshalls techniques as are all.
No he had the additional leg drive you said did not improve velocity and it was(is) not anywhere near what Marshall has taught. He does this from the top of the mound.
SoS.
I have seen the data on stride length near 90% elsewhere Bobby is not making this up.
Hey Yard I just did a couple of quick calculations and these there is about 91 Joules of energy of a 80Kg body going 1.5m/s (human in stride) and there is about 125 joules of energy required to get a baseball moving 90 MPH. So the momentum of a body cannot be discounted when taking into account the effects of conservation of momentum in throwing a baseball. For reference 100 Joules is what is burned for 1 sec in a 100W light bulb. Physics don’t lie my friend, further evidence your theory’s don’t hold up to the scrutiny of science.
And that's why it is so hard to lose weight by exercising. 
BOF,
You have made another leap here! I said the crowhop motion allows you to finish your leg drive while you are still in the acceleration phase .
I said the traditional crotch drive came to a complete stop, 2 different animals.
Agreed he has seen this static number, lets see this data? So then why are we talking about shorter and longer strides in all of them. All you 2 need to do is after any game or practice bullpens go out to an actual mound and look at the landing pit you will see that no 2 same height pitchers have the same landing pattern. Some are very short, some are very long some are nominal. 90% is not nominal or static. This is not something arguable.
Your thinking should not have matched your calks time.
Would this be a continuing stride or a stride to a stop? Your hang up here is what has happened to this spent energy from one leg when it meets the braking action of the other leg.
Agreed, so what does this have to do with body mass started with muscle energy and then stopped with muscle energy by way of the legs?
Nice reference, this means when a traditional pitcher plants his glove side foot and has a couple of Frankenstein electrodes hooked up to his Gluteus he could run the flash bulb on your camera for a second?
That is why Newton would be our best pitching coach and I’m not talking about Fig.
You call what you just wrote scrutiny of science? I call it scutlery by you discounting the energy it takes to stop the bodies mass as seen in every long strode traditional side splits delivery where the glove side leg braces against the ground out in front of the mass. I have in no way said that energy is not being used, just that the energy from the ball arm leg is not conserved and the inertia discontinued, the first disconnection in the Kinetic chain of this technique.
quote:“No he had the additional leg drive you said did not improve velocity and it was(is) not anywhere near what Marshall has taught. He does this from the top of the mound.”
You have made another leap here! I said the crowhop motion allows you to finish your leg drive while you are still in the acceleration phase .
I said the traditional crotch drive came to a complete stop, 2 different animals.
quote:“I have seen the data on stride length near 90% elsewhere Bobby is not making this up.”
Agreed he has seen this static number, lets see this data? So then why are we talking about shorter and longer strides in all of them. All you 2 need to do is after any game or practice bullpens go out to an actual mound and look at the landing pit you will see that no 2 same height pitchers have the same landing pattern. Some are very short, some are very long some are nominal. 90% is not nominal or static. This is not something arguable.
quote:“Hey Yard I just did a couple of quick calculations”
Your thinking should not have matched your calks time.
quote:“these there is about 91 Joules of energy of a 80Kg body going 1.5m/s (human in stride)”
Would this be a continuing stride or a stride to a stop? Your hang up here is what has happened to this spent energy from one leg when it meets the braking action of the other leg.
quote:“So the momentum of a body cannot be discounted when taking into account the effects of conservation of momentum in throwing a baseball.”
Agreed, so what does this have to do with body mass started with muscle energy and then stopped with muscle energy by way of the legs?
quote:“For reference 100 Joules is what is burned for 1 sec in a 100W light bulb.”
Nice reference, this means when a traditional pitcher plants his glove side foot and has a couple of Frankenstein electrodes hooked up to his Gluteus he could run the flash bulb on your camera for a second?
quote:“Physics don’t lie my friend”
That is why Newton would be our best pitching coach and I’m not talking about Fig.
quote:“further evidence your theory’s don’t hold up to the scrutiny of science”
You call what you just wrote scrutiny of science? I call it scutlery by you discounting the energy it takes to stop the bodies mass as seen in every long strode traditional side splits delivery where the glove side leg braces against the ground out in front of the mass. I have in no way said that energy is not being used, just that the energy from the ball arm leg is not conserved and the inertia discontinued, the first disconnection in the Kinetic chain of this technique.
Lets get back focused here. Your comments were that the leg drive had nothing to do with velocity. Tom House has suggested that it may be 20% of the velocity component, which you challenged. I have shown you from live examples, Bauer, etc that there is an effect on different leg drive on velocity of a baseball. I have calculated the energy of a moving body to be substantial enough to be considered when taking into account using simple linear body motions. (in the 70% range) Now you have rightfully pointed out that some of this energy is absorbed at foot contact. The center of mass of a moving human body is somewhere mid stomach +/- (for youth pitchers it is probably higher than old guys like you and me 
) , so when the footstrike happens the mass continues forward and starts rotating more or less around the contact point, I agree that some energy is lost at footstike and some portion of it continues to move the body forward. I don’t know exactly what it is but it is probably in the 35-60% range. Lets for argument sakes say it is toward the high side. Well that means that around 40% of this energy is available to be used in the velocity of throwing the baseball, there of course are some losses so by the time it gets to the fingers guess what, bingo it is around 20% as Tom House has suggested. Thanks Yard you have helped prove Tom right! Honestly I really did not know what the numbers would work out so well until I sat down yesterday and ran some quick calcs and sat down to respond to your post today.
I am sorry but if you can’t understand basic physics and remained blinded by the coolaide you have been drinking there is not much more I can do to enlighten you and show you the error of your ways. Been fun though!
) , so when the footstrike happens the mass continues forward and starts rotating more or less around the contact point, I agree that some energy is lost at footstike and some portion of it continues to move the body forward. I don’t know exactly what it is but it is probably in the 35-60% range. Lets for argument sakes say it is toward the high side. Well that means that around 40% of this energy is available to be used in the velocity of throwing the baseball, there of course are some losses so by the time it gets to the fingers guess what, bingo it is around 20% as Tom House has suggested. Thanks Yard you have helped prove Tom right! Honestly I really did not know what the numbers would work out so well until I sat down yesterday and ran some quick calcs and sat down to respond to your post today.I am sorry but if you can’t understand basic physics and remained blinded by the coolaide you have been drinking there is not much more I can do to enlighten you and show you the error of your ways. Been fun though!
BOF,
When are you going to realize that the earth is flat?
When are you going to realize that the earth is flat?
From my experience as a player and instructor, I have seen that the farther you stride out does not mean you will throw harder, think of it, if this was indeed true, wouldn't everybody in the MLB have insane stride lengths? Take someone like Randy Johnson for example, he is 6'10 and does not have an insane stride length...(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbaKWvLFKjc).
Tim Lincecum has the nick name "the Freak" for a reason, he is the only person with those specific mechanics.
What I believe in is that you should never push, or jump towards home plate to get a longer stride. You have to glide out so your body is able to stay in control throughout the delivery of the pitch. Look up any pitcher on youtube and you will find a common area, which is the pitcher's drag foot has not left the ground when there landing foot has struck. This gives the pitcher all the rotational force from the core and the hips to open up and his arm whips through through the arm slot.
I just find it hard to believe when instructors are saying stuff like the farther you stride, the harder you throw, or you shouldn't have a drag mark from your back leg.
Tim Lincecum has the nick name "the Freak" for a reason, he is the only person with those specific mechanics.
What I believe in is that you should never push, or jump towards home plate to get a longer stride. You have to glide out so your body is able to stay in control throughout the delivery of the pitch. Look up any pitcher on youtube and you will find a common area, which is the pitcher's drag foot has not left the ground when there landing foot has struck. This gives the pitcher all the rotational force from the core and the hips to open up and his arm whips through through the arm slot.
I just find it hard to believe when instructors are saying stuff like the farther you stride, the harder you throw, or you shouldn't have a drag mark from your back leg.
“BOF”
Focused, It’s the timeline that concerns me, quit readjusting the lens..
No! You did not read what I said, I said that the forwards acceleration gained by initial ball side leg drive was later decelerated to a stop from glove side leg bracing, the legs still play their postural role in allowing you to then signal the contracting drive muscles from the top half to reaccelerate the ball. If you did not have legs you could not use their
rotational contractions later to help accelerate the ball.
We don’t know this unless you quote him from material that is brought or available here by him! If he did I’m sure it was not a scientific finding and may show he has not studied High speed film or understand what he has actually seen by his continued support of injurious centripetal mechanics.
I have shown you from live high speed video examples as I would do him if he were here.
When you don’t answer the many direct questions like I asked you about the high speed video that I provided it leads you to believe you are still correct apparently and says much more.
You said he was slower from the windup pitchers delivery in competition, I agreed by saying because he was standing up straighter and rotating more that it was a preferable mechanic by stepping shorter and allows you to actually use the previously generated velocity from the ball side leg then force doubled now by being able to use the glove side leg to conserve our precious inertia, get it right.
And again I am saying it was never disconsidered! Just a different mechanic by way of its continuance opposed to stopping, meaning you have showed nothing. Try calculating how much energy it takes to walk one step then stop and you will come closer to a real correlation.
I have proved by the video with the longest strider and how even this mechanic comes to a complete stop for many frames before the acceleration phase even begins. Read that line again! You might go back and decide when the ball actually starts towards home plate.
Body mass when talking about forwards inertia runs front to back not up and down.
Take an honest look at the HSvid. and you will see where you have this wrong as the bodies mass is not advancing forwards after foot strike for many frames at all, I’ll count them again if you need me to .
Can you understand that it takes completely different muscle groups to start rotational contractions making this statement also false.
I disagree by the evidence I posted, you have not even answered the questions I posed to you about the video?
Late rotation and torso angulations and shoulder and arm contractions count for this restart of forwards body tilt then recovery. No portion of the initial forwards inertia is maintained as witnessed in the video, maybe I should draw in one of those fancy bright vertical lines so you have a reference to see the legs and hips have virtually come to a stop all while the ball is traveling backwards. Look at it.
Try calculating what you are seeing and you will come up with a grand total of 0%.
Get up off your knees! Lets never talk about what is not happening to confuse the issue.
This means Tom House has no clue what the acceleration phase and its posture when signaled is and when it starts like you are portraying, I think not!. Lets not talk about someone who is not here to defend himself and guess at what he is saying.
Oh no thank you, now many people are thinking about how Kinesiology actually works and that and many other High speed videos have finally broken down the phases of this destructive pitching motion.
You should have done what I said and took a good long look at the phases of this mechanic instead of figuring out the energy it tales walk one cycle a completely different mechanic.
This is not the problem! The problem is you dodging pertinent questions.
Uh Oh! here comes the negative and personal Marshall talking points you have learned so well. I’ll bet you just could not wait to use snotty language besides I drink Koolaid, coolaide is what this information is.
Until you answer some of those questions you will never understand it and continue to think if I get my son to stride farther than he will gain velocity. Remember this the farther the splits stride the more injurious stress from a lowered mass on the knees, hips and back.
Get your hand off my back and be nice.
I’ve tested all these theories on actual pitchers and glad I did!
I would think twice about confusing concerned parents about the safest way to proceed, especially when they post about injuries by guessing at what you have been told by others who have had this wrong for so long but at least you are a good sounding board to get this good information out and commend you for that.
Your not afraid to talk about the work stoppage and the frames your missing are you?
quote:“Lets get back focused here.”
Focused, It’s the timeline that concerns me, quit readjusting the lens..
quote:Your comments were that the leg drive had nothing to do with velocity.
No! You did not read what I said, I said that the forwards acceleration gained by initial ball side leg drive was later decelerated to a stop from glove side leg bracing, the legs still play their postural role in allowing you to then signal the contracting drive muscles from the top half to reaccelerate the ball. If you did not have legs you could not use their
rotational contractions later to help accelerate the ball.
quote:“Tom House has suggested that it may be 20% of the velocity component”
We don’t know this unless you quote him from material that is brought or available here by him! If he did I’m sure it was not a scientific finding and may show he has not studied High speed film or understand what he has actually seen by his continued support of injurious centripetal mechanics.
quote:“which you challenged”
I have shown you from live high speed video examples as I would do him if he were here.
When you don’t answer the many direct questions like I asked you about the high speed video that I provided it leads you to believe you are still correct apparently and says much more.
quote:“Bauer, etc that there is an effect on different leg drive on velocity of a baseball”
You said he was slower from the windup pitchers delivery in competition, I agreed by saying because he was standing up straighter and rotating more that it was a preferable mechanic by stepping shorter and allows you to actually use the previously generated velocity from the ball side leg then force doubled now by being able to use the glove side leg to conserve our precious inertia, get it right.
quote:“I have calculated the energy of a moving body to be substantial enough to be considered”
And again I am saying it was never disconsidered! Just a different mechanic by way of its continuance opposed to stopping, meaning you have showed nothing. Try calculating how much energy it takes to walk one step then stop and you will come closer to a real correlation.
quote:“when taking into account using simple linear body motions. (in the 70% range) Now you have rightfully pointed out that some of this energy is absorbed at foot contact.”
I have proved by the video with the longest strider and how even this mechanic comes to a complete stop for many frames before the acceleration phase even begins. Read that line again! You might go back and decide when the ball actually starts towards home plate.
quote:“ The center of mass of a moving human body is somewhere mid stomach +/- (for youth pitchers it is probably higher than old guys like you and me.)”
Body mass when talking about forwards inertia runs front to back not up and down.
quote:“so when the footstrike happens the mass continues forward”
Take an honest look at the HSvid. and you will see where you have this wrong as the bodies mass is not advancing forwards after foot strike for many frames at all, I’ll count them again if you need me to .
quote:“and starts rotating more or less around the contact point”
Can you understand that it takes completely different muscle groups to start rotational contractions making this statement also false.
quote:“I agree that some energy is lost at footstike”
I disagree by the evidence I posted, you have not even answered the questions I posed to you about the video?
quote:“some portion of it continues to move the body forward”
Late rotation and torso angulations and shoulder and arm contractions count for this restart of forwards body tilt then recovery. No portion of the initial forwards inertia is maintained as witnessed in the video, maybe I should draw in one of those fancy bright vertical lines so you have a reference to see the legs and hips have virtually come to a stop all while the ball is traveling backwards. Look at it.
quote:“I don’t know exactly what it is but it is probably in the 35-60% range”
Try calculating what you are seeing and you will come up with a grand total of 0%.
quote:“Lets for argument sakes say it is toward the high side”
Get up off your knees! Lets never talk about what is not happening to confuse the issue.
quote:“there of course are some losses so by the time it gets to the fingers guess what, bingo it is around 20% as Tom House has suggested”
This means Tom House has no clue what the acceleration phase and its posture when signaled is and when it starts like you are portraying, I think not!. Lets not talk about someone who is not here to defend himself and guess at what he is saying.
quote:“Thanks Yard you have helped prove Tom right!”
Oh no thank you, now many people are thinking about how Kinesiology actually works and that and many other High speed videos have finally broken down the phases of this destructive pitching motion.
quote:“Honestly I really did not know what the numbers would work out so well until I sat down yesterday and ran some quick calks and sat down to respond to your post today”
You should have done what I said and took a good long look at the phases of this mechanic instead of figuring out the energy it tales walk one cycle a completely different mechanic.
quote:“I am sorry but if you can’t understand basic physics”
This is not the problem! The problem is you dodging pertinent questions.
quote:“remained blinded by the coolaide you have been drinking”
Uh Oh! here comes the negative and personal Marshall talking points you have learned so well. I’ll bet you just could not wait to use snotty language besides I drink Koolaid, coolaide is what this information is.
quote:“there is not much more I can do to enlighten you”
Until you answer some of those questions you will never understand it and continue to think if I get my son to stride farther than he will gain velocity. Remember this the farther the splits stride the more injurious stress from a lowered mass on the knees, hips and back.
quote:“show you the error of your ways”
Get your hand off my back and be nice.
I’ve tested all these theories on actual pitchers and glad I did!
quote:“Been fun though!”
I would think twice about confusing concerned parents about the safest way to proceed, especially when they post about injuries by guessing at what you have been told by others who have had this wrong for so long but at least you are a good sounding board to get this good information out and commend you for that.
Your not afraid to talk about the work stoppage and the frames your missing are you?
