Not learning the fundamentals

Coach there is a lot of truth in what he says.

Very interesting. I am not of high school or college age, but I am younger than most that post on this board. However I would consider myself as 'old-school' of a person as any. There definitely is no substitute for actually playing the game. I am not sure that there is a danger of baseball becoming a 'one-man show' like basketball. The game itself just doesn't allow that. But I see the need for concern and also the way that things are changing.

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I have seen the lack of fundamentals most exposed in wood bat league from a defensive standpoint.

Things change. Make the best of it.

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Cuts both ways.

Too simplistic to blame only players,

First of all, the entire system/society has less faith in "team" and less "us" and less willingness to do the dirty work. We have become a "celebrity culture" who wants it all now, and is not willing to delay gratification to learn craft. We are all now see ourselves as free agents willng swap teams, and be swapped. Baseball is only a symptom.

That being said it also applies to coaches. Fewer and fewer coaches are willing to turn straw to gold, to challenge players to learn the craft, to craft "team". Doing so requires time and energy and coaching art, and now more recently a willingness to swim upstream. Fewer and fewer coaches are willing to invest that long term effort in a endeavor that they often cannot see as directy related in the near term to success. I see less and less energy spent on player development and team building. On the other hand there are still those rare and magical coaches who understand team and can, even in this environment, convince self centered players to buy into a program and a team.

Here is the irony IMO...Talk to any player, and they have a pretty clear picture of what their caoches could be doing to get them to buy in, or to develop and it is not always stictly PT. Players actually want to be part of something bigger than themselves, to get the attention to develop, and they are not often given the chance or shown the way...so they get fall back to statistical and self centered.

I find it interesting that when players look back it is not the statistics that they miss or remember it is the team and the friendships and the community and the closeness...players know and want that. We need more who recognize that, use it as a tool, teach it as a skill and who can give that to them.

THis season have watched numerous coaches at a variety of levels yell at teams for a half hour after a bad losses. My sense is that that it is more about the coach than it is the team. My sense is that there is precious little team bulding or development being done there. My sense is that that is "self centered" coaching.

There is easily enough blame for all.

44
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How can a coach complain that kids aren't learning the fundamentals of the game, when it is the coach's responsibility to teach those fundamentals?

It would be easier to count the fundamentally well played games I have seen than the games where players are out of position.

Don't coaches teach players where they should be when the ball is hit? Don't coaches teach pitchers where they should be backing up once the ball is hit? Don't coaches teach the middle infielders how to establish a cut off? Don't coaches teach outfielders where to throw when either not given a base to throw to or not sure where to throw? Moving without the ball into position for the play while it is happening is like watching a dance performance.

How many times this season have I watched a batter hit a ground ball to third base with runners on first and second? How many times have I seen third basemen playing deep and batters hitting hard one hoppers to them, instead of laying down a bunt? How many times do batters fail to advance runners or bring runners home with fundamental tactics?

Coaches cannot criticize their players for things either they were not taught by the coach or things the coach taught improperly.

Summer ball is usually showcase tournament type ball. The teams do not expect to teach the players the game, but they will enhance the players' game when possible.

The downfall of our beloved game is due to the crowd who would rather take down the score boards and let everyone play. These people are of the mentality that baseball or other athletic competition is just a friendly day in the park. If this were true, why are those same parents the ones most upset when things do not go the way of their offspring?

All sport has to get back to being the bloodless combat that sport was established to be. When two schools or towns or cities or nations send their champions into the game, it is to win, to conquer the oposition. To bring home the prize and prestige of being the winner and therefore the better.

Let's have FIGHT SONGS once again instead of pep rallies. We want to BEAT the other team, not kill them.

Playing the game as it should be played would make watching and playing far more enjoyable.

Until the competitive aspect of sport is once again recognized and accepted, the 'take down the score board crowd' will continue to water down our national pasttime.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Coach there is a lot of truth in what he says.

AMEN!

Sounds to me he is seeing the results of too many kids getting private lessons for pitching and hitting, playing games with travel teams and High School / Rec Leagues, and not actually practicing fundamental skills enough.

Also the fact that when you are getting private lessons to address one issue (hitting, pitching etc) it's going to impossible to get insight on the game in general.

Throw in the fact that I'm sure that there are many kids out there not playing HS ball and concentrating on travel ball. I see this happen with really good players that are stuck going to schools with horrible baseball programs. I've even seen kids quit HS baseball because the coach made demands such as "you have to play football too"...granted that is the extreme of one side, but it is out there.

Then add in the parents that think that their kid has a better chance of "making it" if they play exclusively travel / showcase ball.

You can't point to just one thing. It's a combination of many things, and it's always different depending on the location.

There are still plenty of areas in this country where there is some QUALITY HS Baseball going on.

Same goes for Legion. I know places where Legion fields GOOD Teams. Then other areas where the Legion team is horrible. It's all relative.

You also have to look at employment trends. I remember a friend talking about how strong their local High School always had strong athletic programs...now they are very weak. Come to find out there were several MAJOR employers that laid off a lot of workers or completely shut down. That means families, and thus the students, move to different areas.

Personally I think for the most part HS players are better than they were when I was in HS...and I graduated 20 years ago.

quote:

That being said it also applies to coaches. Fewer and fewer coaches are willing to turn straw to gold, to challenge players to learn the craft, to craft "team".

I blame this partly on travel ball. It's easier to find a better player than to build one.

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I blame this partly on travel ball. It's easier to find a better player than to build one.

Here travel ball focuses on fundamentals. That is where they drill fundamentals into the players. 4 hour practices 3 times a week plus class room lectures.

A few things in the article stand out to me:

FUNDAMENTALS----they used to be taught in LL--this does not happen like it used to--today they have T Ball All Star Teams--- also as noted the kids do not "play ball" like we used to--we had stick ball, wiffle ball, stoop ball, punch ball, all baseball forms--we also played "cat in the middle" where we practiced run downs--- Today by the time the kid gets to HS ball he already is loaded with bad habits

TRAVEL(SELECT)BALL-- I cannot speak for others but on our team we have found over the years that the mental aspect of the game is the weakest aspect, even for the best player -- thus we focus on the mental aspect of the game --- The "instinct" aspect is missing in all too many players--We do something that may be a bit different than most teams like ours--I do not go into the dugout during the games--I sit outside the dugout and watch each and every play--make notes--I allow my coaches to run the game but I am close enough so I can whisper in their ear if need be--then myself and the coaches talk about it at dinner that night and even back in the room at the hotel--we talk to the player(s) individually and as a group regarding what we see---our weekends at events include on going discussion regarding the game and individual circumstances and how they should be handled--I am also close enoug to each on deck hitter so I can talk to him thru the screen about what I have seen in the pitcher or the fielders positioning

Go watch a LL game and tell me what you think!-- I ain't the same as we knew it--when I played LL if we had a bad game the parents were told to come back 90 minutes after the game ended and we went to a field and practiced and practiced.Not to mention that all the coaches I had were ex-minor leaguers which is a big difference from most LL staffs I see today

When I coached LL we practiced 3 or 4 times a week including Sunday afternoons and they were mandatory and we played 2 games a week as well--nowadays you do not see that happen

Basically the game of baseball is weak today because the kids and parents have too many other things "to do"---the passion is gone

Next week I am going to watch my 6 year old grandson's T Ball practice--He is in a town that is a baseball town so it should be interesting to watch
At the 6yr old level is where it begins

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

quote:

I blame this partly on travel ball. It's easier to find a better player than to build one.

Here travel ball focuses on fundamentals. That is where they drill fundamentals into the players. 4 hour practices 3 times a week plus class room lectures.

BobbleheadDoll, you guys up North do it much different than the majority. Kudos to you guys.


RJM, you have valid point, building baseball players takes a lot of time and some do not want to put in the time to build the players. Too much focuses on results than the process.

The coaches out there that have no kids in it other than for the love of the game to make all kids better are very few and far between.

To those those few coaches still out there, Kudos to the good guys!


Reference the Little League Parent Syndrome, continues to stump many coaches article written by Keith Madison back on April 5, 1996 in Collegiate Baseball magazine.

Another issue that don't get mentioned often is that too much travel ball has led to overexposure of players and all the D1 commits. In out area, there was this explosion of players getting D1 looks and in some cases, interest by major league baseball.

Not for one minute do I believe our area has all of a sudden become a hotbed for talent. I just think these players show up in these showcases and saturate the pool and with these showcases making a ton of loot, they need to show they're producing D1 and pro talent because they'd go out of business otherwise.

Personally, I think what this will cause is a lot of false hope for parents who actually believe their kid is that talented and once they get in there with the best, they find out otherwise because all the while, they may show the physical tools but never really played the game on their own and have the head and instincts needed to be a great player.

I agree that also, today's game is more individual oriented instead of team oriented goals and a big part of that is these showcases.

Personally, I'd like to see all these showcases fall flat on their face and see players go back to playing baseball as a team game where all the best players are on American Legion teams who's goal is to win state and regional titles and playing good team baseball along the way.

Showcases are killing Legion ball and has become more of a hired-gun service than anything else.

At the end of the day, the very best players that will go far in the game will be found and the have and the have-nots will be identified as well.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
A few things in the article stand out to me:

FUNDAMENTALS----they used to be taught in LL--this does not happen like it used to--today they have T Ball All Star Teams---also as noted the kids do not "play ball" like we used to--we had stick ball, wiffle ball, stoop ball, punch ball, all baseball forms.

Basically the game of baseball is weak today because the kids and parents have too many other things "to do"---the passion is gone

TR ... a lot of truth in what I quoted you on.

Again, I believe too much focus on the results vs. the process of learning the game which all starts with the FUNDAMENTALS.

Now, the $64k question, how does this get changed?

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Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

quote:

I blame this partly on travel ball. It's easier to find a better player than to build one.

Here travel ball focuses on fundamentals. That is where they drill fundamentals into the players. 4 hour practices 3 times a week plus class room lectures.

For the most part in the US there's a battle for fields between rec and travel. Rec is considered to be serving the community and gets preference. Therefore it's hard for a travel team to get practice fields. When I ran a travel team I felt very fortunate we had a practice field two days a week. I got the field by donating money to a rec program to use their extra field. If the school district knew what was happening they would have thrown us off the field and reprimanded the rec league.

Kids are too reliant on coaches to tell them what to do. It shows up in many aspects, but the most obvious to me is running the bases. There are no instincts except to do whatever the third base coach tells you to do.

We've had guys fail to tag up at third on long fly balls with less than two outs ("coach you didn't say to tag"). We've had guys get thrown out going 2nd to 3rd on a ground ball in the hole at SS ("coach you didn't say not to go"). These types of things should be automatic, but I've come to the conclusion that nothing is automatic.

Another area would be coaches calling pitches (which will probably open up a whole new can of worms for the 1000th time). Kids are so programmed not to think for themselves that they get to a point where they can't. Everything has to be organized, coaches have to dictate every move, blah blah blah...just play the game.

quote:

Go watch a LL game and tell me what you think!-- I ain't the same as we knew it--when I played LL if we had a bad game the parents were told to come back 90 minutes after the game ended and we went to a field and practiced and practiced.Not to mention that all the coaches I had were ex-minor leaguers which is a big difference from most LL staffs I see today

When I coached LL we practiced 3 or 4 times a week including Sunday afternoons and they were mandatory and we played 2 games a week as well--nowadays you do not see that happen

When I played LL we were a less mobile society. There was more community service. Our LL coaches were the same year after year. None of them were dads. We also had to make LL. There were no majors, minors, machine pitrch and tee ball. You made LL or you didn't. If you didn't you played Farm League. You weren't guaranteed playing time. You had to earn it. I think I played ten games when I was nine and got eight plate appearances. It's just as well. Some of the twelve year old pitchers scared the hell out of me. But I practiced five days a week with the team and was ready to play all the time when I was ten.

We practiced every day we didn't play. That was five practices and two games. During the day we were playing pickup games. I'll bet between pickup games and LL we played twenty games a week. That doesn't include all the whiffle ball played in the back yard.

I remember on the days of our LL all-star games the coach had us over at his house all day to play Strat O Matic and watch tv. He wanted us rested. He knew if he left us alone we'd be out in the hot sun playing baseball all day.

We had fifteen players on all-stars. It was typically ten or eleven twelve year olds who played and four or five eleven year olds along for the ride to be more mentally prepared to lead the all-star team the following year. When I was eleven I never got on the field in an all-star game. It wasn't a problem. I was proud to have earned the uniform.

quote:

Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:
Kids are too reliant on coaches to tell them what to do. It shows up in many aspects, but the most obvious to me is running the bases. There are no instincts except to do whatever the third base coach tells you to do.

We've had guys fail to tag up at third on long fly balls with less than two outs ("coach you didn't say to tag"). We've had guys get thrown out going 2nd to 3rd on a ground ball in the hole at SS ("coach you didn't say not to go"). These types of things should be automatic, but I've come to the conclusion that nothing is automatic.

Another area would be coaches calling pitches (which will probably open up a whole new can of worms for the 1000th time). Kids are so programmed not to think for themselves that they get to a point where they can't. Everything has to be organized, coaches have to dictate every move, blah blah blah...just play the game.

In my opinion, I see kids getting "programmed" in the 12U program and I've even seen it in high school baseball. I agree 100%, too much instruction during the games with telling the kids what to do. Is that not what practice is for? And the games are the measuring stick to see what has paid off in practice and what might need more attention in practice.

Base-running, that is one area of the game that is not practiced. I hate to see HS baseball teams waste practice time conditioning by running hills or running sprints. How 'bout running the bases for conditioning?

How can Sand-Lot baseball be brought back especially for 12U kids?

Heck, our local Park-n-Rec has locked down all of the ball diamonds. I thought the public had a right to utilize public facilities, especially the baseball fields.

I guess our son has had the good fortune to play for a "team builder" and believer in "practicing" type HS coach. In the beginning I thought all HS coaches were like that but now I see that they are not. With regards to travel teams we never believed in them much, as far player development goes, and put more emphasis on training and working on all the fundamentals during the summer. I think I can say that this has benefited his development from a skills standpoint and believe I can say that he is a very fundamentally sound baseball player. The downside, that we see now from the recruiting process, is that he hasn't had the exposure that travel teams supposedly offer.

I think the problem is a culmination of many things. But before we lay the blame on
“Travel Ball”…let’s define travel ball.

Is “Travel Ball” the team of 11-12 year olds who play in the local rec league, but want to play some additional games against better competition, so they play some extra games / tournaments in their local area?

Is “Travel Ball” the group of parents who hand pick the biggest and best 12 year old studs a 5 hours radius, pay a coach, rent a facility, buy the best of everything, have private pitching / hitting lessons, fly / drive to 20 “big” tournaments a year?

So why would these kids want better competition than their local rec league?

Is it because youth baseball leagues have completely changed in the last 20 years or so?

I’m not some old ****…but I remember trying out for the local league. There wasn’t multiple leagues to choose from…you played for the same league all your buddies did. But you had to TRYOUT. If you didn’t make it you played in the lower league, which was considered an “Instructional League”. When you showed up for practices , normally the only adults present were the coaches., and the Dad who helped out when he could. When you didn’t have a game, you practiced. Parents didn’t have to be called to attend practice, each kid would walk, or ride his bike, or catch a ride with another parent or coach..because he knew no game = practice. If there wasn’t practice, then you were on the field with all your buddies. Playing any version of baseball you could, depending on how many players you had.

Now parents show up at every practice and game. And by osmosis they slowly decide they are coaches. When I was kid, if you Dad coached, that was because he was already a coach, or he had played the game for a long time…not so anymore.

Now when a Dad volunteers to coach his T-ball team at 5 years old, he just assumes he has seniority to coach as his kid reaches each level. So when a new kid joins the league, and his Dad happens to be a former college or pro ball player…who knows the game inside and out…why isn’t HE Coaching instead? It’s called entitlement.

From congratulating kids for failing, to giving out trophies just for showing up…we have slowly done our best as a society to breed the competitiveness OUT of our young children.

So in steps travel ball. –

Kids tired of other kids getting the same amount of playing time and rewards even though they don’t work as hard and aren’t as good. Isn’t that what our entire society was built on? REWARD HARD WORK? Isn’t that what we are supposed to teach our children?

So Dad, more than likely also a coach, gets to talking with other coaches / Dads and they get some kids together…imagine that their better players, and they go the next town over and play different teams…and it catches on.

In a way it was evolution in it’s purest form.

But here it comes…

Little Johnny has always been the SS or pitcher in the rec league…with Dad coaching. So when Dad hears about the team being formed he talks to one of the Dad’s and when they don’t pick his kid…he knows it’s a snub. There is always another reason why he wasn’t picked…it never had to do with the fact he wasn’t good enough for that level yet. So what does Little Johnny’s Dad do?

He forms his OWN “Travel Team”.

And so on, and so forth….

A LOT Of this will depend on the area…but it applies in many ways. And of course when people noticed there was money to be made…imagine that….all these other sanctioning bodies and leagues popped up. National Tournaments. (Think Cooperstown), local Baseball Academies….where if you imply to Mom and Dad that Little Johnny will play college ball…they will pay you. They start to drink the Kool-Aid.

So now “Travel Ball” has pulled many of the best, and later the average and middle of the pack kids away from the local rec leagues. So it makes the local rec leagues that much weaker.

It’s not just the fault of any one thing.

quote:

Originally posted by New2This:
I guess our son has had the good fortune to play for a "team builder" and believer in "practicing" type HS coach. In the beginning I thought all HS coaches were like that but now I see that they are not. With regards to travel teams we never believed in them much, as far player development goes, and put more emphasis on training and working on all the fundamentals during the summer.

Where my son played HS, the coach expected these kids to have had some level of travel ball experience and have the fundamentals down.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:

quote:

Originally posted by New2This:
I guess our son has had the good fortune to play for a "team builder" and believer in "practicing" type HS coach. In the beginning I thought all HS coaches were like that but now I see that they are not. With regards to travel teams we never believed in them much, as far player development goes, and put more emphasis on training and working on all the fundamentals during the summer.

Where my son played HS, the coach expected these kids to have had some level of travel ball experience and have the fundamentals down.

My son's HS coach never had that as a requirement. I gathered that he preferred his kids to work on practicing more than just playing during the summer, but I think he also had the view that travel ball was more of a money making issue for some.

There's some truth and some whining in what he says.

I'll attest to the nature of the Canadian travel ball. The team my son played against, while only moderately talented was clearly very well coached and focused on development.

"Time Marches On, time marches on," so the words of the song go.

I'd like to expound on one point and make another that hasn't been mentioned. I believe PrimeJr. and his High School contemporaries have been exposed to good baseball fundamentals and have insight to the game. They've learned these things through a combination of skilled and caring Travel, High School and Private coaching. They care more about winning and team success than personal stats. Maybe they are unusual?

That being said; all the games played in todays season of near 40 high school games (with Playoffs), 45-50 Summer games and then perhaps another 30 if they play in the fall is staggering compared to "the day" when many of us played. I've coached at many levels and it's pretty darn hard to teach skills when you are playing games! In "my day", we played less and practiced more.

Another aspect that I believe has changed the game much more than we may consider, is the use of METAL BATS.

Using heavy wood bats as kids, led to the necessity to learn to bunt, hit behind the runner, work the count, steal bases and all the fundamental aspects of the "small ball" game that were required to score runs if you couldn't hit it out of the Park! Even at the High school level, the players that could hit "the bomb" were far fewer than is the case today.

My son's high school team has been in the weight room since 8th grade, year round nearly, as is required just to go out for the team. They need something like 80 certified/signed workouts (these are checked weekly) between the start of School and Feb 1st tryouts. To date, 26 games, they've hit 54 home runs. More will come with the playoffs. There's more "mash" to the game today and more raw foot speed, the kids are more athletic and so on! Often, it's best for a Coach to NOT try to micro-manage the game but just let it happen. In today's game that means pitch well, and score runs.

Then there is that entirely opposing "School of thought" ,prevalent in higher levels, that says statistically, trying to prove that stealing bases, sacrifice bunting, moving runners over etc, are all worth the effort when you closely evaluate the runs for outs results! It's just not there in many cases.

just my thoughts....

I really am not moved all that much by "things were better in our day" arguments. Some things may be better in the past and some things may have improved. The fact that things are different does not necessarily make them worse - just different.

We cannot just let our kids bike off by themselves anymore because there are too many creeps out there who prowl at the parks. Supervised baseball seems to be a necessary evil imho.

I want to to see baseball promoted in as many forms as possible. I support rec legaues for boys and softball leagues for girls. If the girls want to play hardball, that is fine too. If some of the pool of rec league participants want to join a travel team, that is fine too. If some parrents out there want to get their kids private instruction that is fine as well. Not happy with your local travel team options and the politics involved and you want to start your own travel team? Go ahead! It is a free country and the more kids we get playing baseball anywhere is a good thing for the sport imho.

The issue about fundamentals and not having enough practice time is a red herring imho. If a runner fails to tag up properly at third base during a game, I am pretty sure the coach will let him know and he won't make that mistake again. Kids can learn the game by playing it imho.

Finally - there are pros and cons about the high school game and pros and cons regarding the summer travel experiences. Both experiences should be utilized to build the best and most complete ballplayer imho. The high school experience forces kids to adapt and compete in what may not be the optimum environment for their own personal development. These skills of adapting to whatever you get are essential if the goal is to play in college. The summer ball experience is good because it allows kids to play against better competition in many cases. Since these teams are often hand-selected before the season begins, most of the participants do not need to play with the same sense of urgency that a high school team coach may require. IMO, players should strive to do both and excell at both.

I think baseball in all its forms is a good thing. Even if the rec leagues have been watered down, we are likely building a love in the sport for future parents to pass on to their kids. I truly believe the goal in this country should be maximum participation for all kids - boys and girls - in order that we can pass along a healthy legacy for the future.

Nice! Way to go CD. Great post!

CD


Do you think this "feel good" atmosphere helps the fundamental and competitive aspect for the young kids?

Do you truly like the "everyone gets a trophy" aspect? Do you think that is fostering anything but passiveness?

We must have missed the feel good era. Even at 9 year old level it was dog eat dog.
Our kids were taught fundamentals from day 1. The coaching was very fundamental oriented or you lost players to other teams. HS was not the place to teach fundamentals since there was no time to do it.

I'm not so sure I'd blame the coaching. Some players are just not very 'baseball smart' under game conditions....

I've heard our coach say more than once 'That's not how we coach it here' after a mental or physical mistake...

This is an interesting thread. The entire time I'm reading, I'm wondering why it seems that an increasing percentage of professional players are from outside of the United States? Better recruitment/development by MLB outside of the US, or are the players getting better? If so, how?

I don't have a theory here. Just wondering if travel ball and private instruction = MLB player, or if it is something else.

We used to have ten open baseball fields for anyone to come and use. Now there are four full size fields and two little league fields that are fenced in. [The other 4 fields got turned into football/s****r.] They only open them when an official game is going on.
The population of kids hasn't exactly changed. Oh the fields are right in front of residential buildings. So there's no excuse that the kid has to hitch a ride with someone or is too far away from adult supervision.
We used to take the train in nyc as kids and that was when the crime rate was far worse!
Life is way too structured and organized these days. Gone are the days where a bunch of kids just get together to play ball. Nowadays they mostly play basketball or handball. Last I checked you don't need a permit for that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
This is an interesting thread. The entire time I'm reading, I'm wondering why it seems that an increasing percentage of professional players are from outside of the United States? Better recruitment/development by MLB outside of the US, or are the players getting better? If so, how?

I don't have a theory here. Just wondering if travel ball and private instruction = MLB player, or if it is something else.

I have a list for you based on my experience living and being involved in baseball outside the US (Latin America, in Japan there are probably different reasons), not necessarily in any particular order.

1) Every kid ( and usually their parents) have a dream to play in the MLB - The money has a lot to do with that. The percentage of "middle class" kids playing baseball is small compared to the rest, and many see baseball as a way out of poverty. Although now that the money is getting interesting you see more middle class parents and kids getting involved.

2) There is a high percentage of ex-professional players training, coaching and teaching the game. Not much Daddy ball.

3) There is a passion for the game that borders somewhat on insanity and which fuels a pressure to win (sometimes no matter what) from when the kids are in the 5-6 yo categories on up (and the ones that started baseball at 3 yo are old pros by then). Some of those LL games are a sight to watch. Most people from inside the US would either be enthralled by it or appalled by it. Those that make it on through become pretty tough cookies.

4) The ratio of talent to geographical area. The MLB teams can spend a lot less scouting talent in countries like Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Panama, Curacao and parts of Mexico, that combined are no larger than Florida, Texas and California. Its akin to funneling all the sardines into a smaller net.

5) There is no travel ball or high school baseball. All of the organized baseball below the professional level is centered in youth leagues like LL and other organizations. This just concentrates all the available talent, resources, coaches, (and pressure). In fact there is very little organized baseball past 18u. College ball is non-existent for all practical purposes. Because the system is league oriented there is usually a period of a couple of months in the summer that the leagues do not play. This allows the players to take that time to practice and train with professional coaches that set up "summer camps" and work on development and fundamentals. No Showcases to go to.

6) Every kid knows that if they are not signed by an MLB team by 16 then they are on the old hag list. If they aren't signed at all by 18 (or 19 at the most) then they can pretty much forget about playing baseball any more. No on to college for them, even though you can imagine the amount of talent that gets left behind.

7) By scouting and securing talented players by 16 - 18 yo the MLB can spend the next 4 to 5 years developing the talent into MLB quality. No amount of travel ball, HS ball or private instruction can compete with up at 7 am everyday at an MLB run Academy to lift weights, train and play baseball until the end of each day, practically all year. No more aluminum bats either, plus add on the schedule of games they play against each other. And then eventually on to the minor leagues.

8) The year round mostly good weather.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
This is an interesting thread. The entire time I'm reading, I'm wondering why it seems that an increasing percentage of professional players are from outside of the United States? Better recruitment/development by MLB outside of the US, or are the players getting better? If so, how?

I don't have a theory here. Just wondering if travel ball and private instruction = MLB player, or if it is something else.

What are those outside of the United States working on an average of 6-8hrs a day?

Some would say the fundamentals and playing the game.

He's a great coach that has won a lot of games and baseball is his life. That's great! However, what happens on the flip side when coaches really don't know what they are talking about and can't coach the fundamentals of the game well. What are the parents going to do? well, they find the best opportunities for their kids because they care. I know I do with mine.
When my kids play softball (I have all girls) and they decide they want to pitch I'm not the go to guy for that and nor are some of these "coaches" out there. Find them some great coaches that can teach the fundamentals you and their coach can't because, you all know out there, that coaches mean well but they can sure screw kids up mentally and mechanically.
this isn't a session on bashing coaches. My favorite coach didn't know about pitching or hitting mechanics. He just loved the game. My parents paid big bucks for my lessons for years and it has paid off in more ways than just a successful baseball business. I learned about confidence in life just by learning from some of the best pitching coaches in the country. Had I not looked for extra guidance I wouldn't be where I am today. So, long story short, I agree to disagree with some of his statements, not all.

A productive baseball practice http://www.thepitchingacademy.com/?page_id=55

Great thread so far and some great posts by many people. I'm with the nobody / everybody is to blame crowd. You can't focus on one (or few) specific thing(s) to say "this is what got things out of kilter".

Overall I think the biggest problem we face is that we are phasing out competition in kids. Through the education system and youth leagues we aren't teaching our kids to fight for what they want. Educationally I see everyday where kids think they should get another chance at a test they bomb because they didn't study because that is what they get to do at younger grades. They feel they are entitled to success because they haven't failed. Even now in high school if I got a kid who does absolutely nothing in class by choice he has so many option as to how they can get through without ever really working one day in class.

Now you find kids who have never sat on the bench and earned their playing time due to the youth leagues. It used to be ages 9 - 12 were on the same team and basically the 9 and 10's sat on the bench learning while the 11 and 12's played. But somebody figured that it was more important for the 9 and 10's to not get their feelings hurt by sitting on the bench so they formed their own level of team. Now you go from teams having 13 - 15 players to teams barely getting enough to field a team. Back in the day 2 or 3 kids could go on vacation and things never missed a beat. Today if 2 or 3 kids go on vacation you might have to reschedule some games.

Today kids play too many games at early ages without ever learning the game itself. You have little league aged kids playing in the neighborhood of 100 games each spring, summer and fall. When do you have the time to practice and teach the actual game? Plus you have the wear / tear and burnout issues to factor in now. Grown men in peak physical condition get injured playing 162 games in the summer just from wear / tear. Do you really think a developing 12 year old body can do it better when their diet consists of pop tarts and pepsi?

Another problem is idiot coaches at the youth league level who think they are playing in the seventh game of the World Series. They are definately not teaching the game. I've personally seen some crazy "strategies" employed just to win games at that level that meant nothing. Stalling so the time limit runs out so you can win. Calling time as soon as the OF picks up the ball so baserunners can't advance. Not pitching to a kid because he happens to be slightly better than everybody else. My best friend is coaching his son's little league team and he said a 6 team 11 player draft took 6 hours to do because the "coaches" debated every single kid out there to try and get the best team so they could win the league. He was so ticked off he said he was about ready to tell them to let him have his son and pick the rest of the team for him so he could leave. Funny thing is the vast majority of kids in that league want to play on his team because he teaches the game and doesn't get caught up in the craziness.

Next problem is you have high school coaches who are absolutely clueless, political or so negative they drive kids away. Although I'm a high school coach and I will defend them on here sadly these guys exist. They do much more harm than good to the entire game overall. When my teams compete against these teams I just feel sorry for those kids.

Another problem is unrealistic parents. For some reason they think their Little Johnny is the greatest thing since sliced bread. No matter how many mistakes he makes it's never his fault. This creates a bad situation because they are out in the community trashing this coach saying how bad he is and how he plays favorites (politics).

You also have parents who for some reason think that because you pay for private lessons it has to be of a better quality coaching than what you would get from the high school team. For every bad high school coach there is a "private" instructor who is just as bad or maybe just doing it for the money.

There is a ton of blame to throw around but that isn't what's important. What's important is what can we do to fix the situation. I don't care what level of baseball you are talking about we need to teach the fundamentals at every level. If we do that then each level can also build to the next level of fundamentals. As a high school coach I got guys who don't know how to do simple relay positioning and they've played their entire life. I don't care who failed them because I got to get them caught up first before I can teach them the stuff that should be taught at the high school level.

I don't think Coach Miller is necessarily blaming all the problems on private coaching nor the younger levels. He'll call a spade a spade when it comes to bad coaching.

Lots of great points here.

As for the mention of the amount of talent coming from OUTSIDE the United States...

While there are definitely some VERY talented baseball players coming from these revenue, cash driven 'baseball player factories' once these players do get to the majors...many of them, not all, play with a "ME FIRST, I'm going to GET PAID" mentality. And why not? Most of them came from low income upbringings, if not outright poverty. And they spent their childhood working their butts off to possibly get to the MLB.

I've seen it. They don't see baseball as a sport. It's purely a business.

I agree with the statement that fundamentals need to be taught at every level. Sometimes my teenager seems to forget stuff he learned 2-3 years ago, especially as it relates to positions he hasn't played in recent seasons. Repetition repetition repetition.