Not sure we should ask

If your son REALLY wants to go to this school, I'd probably pay the money and go. We found situations where schools wanted to continue to evaluate son annoying.... but then again, he had no school that he was very anxious to go to. My son's senior year of HS, he had a request from a school to attend their Christmas camp ONCE again. This school had evaluated him at their camp, another camp, state tournament games, and fall ball games! We felt that was ample opportunity and would not spend another dollar to be seen by them! BUT, if that's really the school your son would like to dance with, make have to suck it up one more time. JMO

I agree with lafmom.

Lets put in the context of an earlier thread about negotiation. If you're willing to forgo this school over $300, then ask for a waiver knowing they may decline (to be honest, I doubt they can legally give that waiver anyways). If you're not willing to walk away, pay the fee.

Five camps in a year and they haven't figured it out??

Sounds to me like he is being strung along.

Even if you decide to pay yet another $300, I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket.

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You might check on this with smarter posters (most everyone!)...but I'm 99% sure that by NCCA rules schools CANNOT waive or adjust the cost of camp for individual campers.

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I also believe they can't waive the fee.
I also believe the coach is stringing you along. He has found the mother load.
5 X $300 is absolutely rediculous.

Well, then, between the two of us that's 198%. You'd be asking for a 'gift', and that would be illegal.

I don't like the tactic on the part of the coach, but if your son wants that school, I'd give it serious thought. But add this to the mix: if this is the way they're playing around now, what will it be like when he gets there?

[tongue in cheek] 5 X $300 should qualify you as a "patron" of the program - then, by defintion your input should be included in ALL recruiting decisions [/tongue in cheek]

soo IMO - either ...

1) they're stringing the player .. or
2) they're very poor at evaluation .. or
3) they need your cash for the program


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Cannot waive any fees for camp.

Just my opinion, but if they haven't figured it out yet after 4 camp visits, I'd move on.

Tell them your son has been asked to attend an evaluation at another school that very same weekend (go figure!) and has already accepted, but you hope the coach will be able to refer back to the notes he took during the last 4 visits your son has made to his program.

Might be time to walk away.

Can't waive the cost of the camp.

Does this school have a lot of 07 verbals for the early signing period? That can tell if they are pretty aggressive about getting players signed or do they wait until spring to get their commitments.

It also gives you an indication of where he is in their recruiting class; not being high may also be an indication that he may have a difficult time in getting playing time.

I had talked to a father the other day, his son had just been to a well known showcase in the bay area and played a lot, when talking to the coach after the showcase, the coach said he wanted the player to come down to their school's camp that was two weeks latter.

He asked me what he should do; I asked him what will they see that they just did not see over the three day showcase? Well they decided that they had to go since the coach has been talking to them and he had asked.

He had a football game Friday night, so they drove down that night and got in around 3am, they reported to the field at 9am and the player got in, what only turned out to be only scrimmages (no BP or infield-out field), at 2pm, got three really good hits (one over the fence other for extra bases), made all the plays in the field (none very tough).

When they talked to the coach on the way out, he told the family that they were only really looking for a LHP (he was an infielder), but appreciated that they came down.

It was also what others had heard, at previous camps..........

"Again. This is will be the 5th camp he's gone to at this school since starting this process last year."

When I read NEWCOMER's post, I started to reply, but changed it to a PM so nobody would criticize my "advice".

I see now that I was in the majority regarding their concern.

As many have said here. " if you don't have the offer, you have nothing".

From our recruiting experience, the college coach must show as much, or more interest in your son as he has in the program. Otherwise, its like wishing for a date with someone, and they aren't truly interested.

Use the $300 on 5 wood bats and go find the sweetspot. It'll benefit your son more.

quote:

I started to reply, but changed it to a PM so nobody would criticize my "advice".

I see now that I was in the majority regarding their concern.

Or maybe we've trained you well? Got you to drink the kool-aid?

Maybe this is an opportunity for you to put them on the table and not go to the camp this time. However, give them a call and say thank-you for the invite but you have seen my son in 4 previous camps and maybe it's time that we check out other schools. It's not being rude, just honest. These camps are usually ways for Asst coaches to supplement their incomes.

I'm with rz1's advice on this one. This is a call I would make to the head coach, not son. Thank them for the invite and continued interest. Remind them they have seen your son at 4 of their camps previously (if their record keeping is bad, they may not know!). Let them know your son is very interested in their program. Then ask "How serious is your recruiting interest in my son?". At that point in the conversation stop, don't say any more, and listen to what the coach has to say. If he says they still need to see your son again before they can decide, I'd offer to send them his HS schedule .... and move on. This does not mean they will not come around and make an offer, it just means that your son has done all he needs to do for this school and its up to the coach to make the next move. Good Luck and stay positive!

Its time for the coach to show his cards, as others have said. Ask him the level of interest...cold, cool, warm. If you get a version of the D1 shuffle, move on.

I got tired of all the "camps" I reached a point where I would call either the recruiting director of head coach and ask. Have you seen him play, if so where? Can you get him in, is he academically qualified?

Then LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS. If they can not describe your son, his strenths and or weeknesses, then you are in a better postion to make an informed decision.

PS - 4 camps at 2 days per camp - they had better know your son.

No advice, because I don't know what we would do, but I feel your pain.

For those who think that there are not pitfalls or circumstances that arise in recruiting, this is just another example.
If coach knows that this may be your son's number one choice and he is not theirs for the moment, this can and will happen.
My opinion, is that most good recruiters don't need to see a player half dozen times. To ask a player to attend camp for the 5th time just seems a bit too much for me.
I know some say never give up and I agree, in some circumstances. As someone suggested, if this is how they act during courtship, what's going to happen after the marriage occurs? I know that without us saying a word, regardless of what type of player he was, son would have called it quits by now, because he would want to play for someone who really wanted him. He did do that with his dream school, after seeing him pitch quite a few times over the years, calling, not calling, calling, not calling, emailing, asking if he really wanted to come, telling him he was a top recruit, telling HS coach they were going to offer, etc, when they called for visit he said no thanks. He alone decided on that and he never looked back.

Something to think about.

I've held off responding because A) I haven't gone through this and B) my luck it will happen to my son in 3-4 years. So take this worth a grain of salt.

I guess my biggest concern is how good are they at evaluating talent if it takes them 5 camps (10 days?) to evaluate him? I would ask the coach/recruiting coordinator some pointed questions like "What do you like about my son?" "What hesitation do you have in signing him?" "Is a 5th camp really necessary?"

As a coach, and also as a father whose son was recruited........this doesn't answer your question directly, but I recommend having your son (or anybody's son) to play for a coach/program who REALLY WANTS HIM.

In my mind, that is the most important ingredient in looking for a place to send a kid to attend college and play baseball. For some kids, there may be several schools who really want them, for others there may be a few or just one......and all it takes is one.

You can usually tell if they really want him, whether they say so in direct words or in other ways.

quote:

Originally posted by grateful:
but I recommend having your son (or anybody's son) to play for a coach/program who REALLY WANTS HIM.

Great deal of wisdom there, which I have heard from many other respected sources as well.

I still can see the look on my sons face some 12 years ago when coach told him they they wanted to bring in one frosh OF and he was it

quote:

Originally posted by Texan:

quote:

Originally posted by grateful:
but I recommend having your son (or anybody's son) to play for a coach/program who REALLY WANTS HIM.

Great deal of wisdom there, which I have heard from many other respected sources as well.

I felt the need to echo Grateful's very good advice, as well. My son seemed to feel that way, and it has worked out so far for him.

Express your great interest in becoming a student/athlete but after 4 camps you dont have the resources to attend one more.

My son went through something very similar. I'd say that unless this school is THE school your son wants to attend (in spite of the marginal interest they've expressed), I think he'd probably be better off broadening his exposure...not narrowing it. And, I see nothing wrong in a polite explanation to that effect to the coach.

Yes agree, If I was going to burn through another $300.00, I would invest it in a Showcase that would have several schools in attendance.
Nothing wrong with spreading the love around
Then you can tell coach that son will be at that showcase and they can see him at showcase.
Five amps seems like an awful lot.
We stayed away from most of the camps, as schedule was too busy. Son went to showcases that had several or a bunch of schools attending. This worked very well.

$300. x 5 = books for three semesters.
$300. x 5 = pretty good payday for showcase coach
$300. x 5 = regrets in April

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While this sounds like serious overkill and a point too simple and obvious to belabor...

I too would stress the value of going into a program where a player is REALLY wanted, not simply pressing the dream. While there are many instances of players taking that risk and earning respect, and while we all love to read about these feel good stories where a kid comes from the margin or nowhere, and while there are instances where I would reccomend this...The reality of college baseball is that it is a grind and a roller coaster ride up and down, up and down...

I don't need to tell anyone that often people see things wrapped in their own bias. A program that believes in a player will consciously and unconsciously allow them the player more room to grow, and when those inevitable challenges arise (injury, academics, personal issues, slumps..)holds an underlying faith in a player. While an unbidden player may have some respect due to pure tenacity, such players have little wiggle room.

Beyond that a player will often live right up to expectations, or lack thereof.

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Newcomer, if you wouldn't mind please let us know how this comes out in the end. Would be interesting to know if the school turned out to be sincere, or if they were just padding their camp income.

I think son has decided to go to a showcase in Peoria instead of the camp. I'll keep you posted though. Lots of good posts here. I completely agree that it is far better to have a coach want you...in fact, since my initial post on this subject, we may have found that coach--a D2 program. This guy will have another look at son this Sunday at a showcase..coach brought his wife and baby to our son's game last weekend..and spent time talking to my husband. Felt very natural and family-like. I like that.

quote:

Felt very natural and family-like. I like that.

Yeah, I think that's the "gut thing" we so often talk about here. Sounds like you might have your answer...... best of luck tomorrow to your son!

Agree with the Texan...They're stringing him along. Four camps at the same school? For what?

The money likely goes into the coach's pocket.

Latest from the D1 coach: he likes son's bat but doesn't know where to play him..not sure he can pitch at this level (throws 85-88) and not sure if he has a place in the field for him..maybe he wants to see who he loses in the spring draft? Our HS coach says "stringing along" in this case is good..because the coach would have said "no way" a long time ago if he really didn't want son...now son is thinking he SHOULD go to the camp..arrghghh

quote:

Originally posted by Newcomer:
Our HS coach says "stringing along" in this case is good..because the coach would have said "no way" a long time ago if he really didn't want son...

As others have said keep looking elsewhere...hopefully ur son finds a program that wants him and knows where he can play him. From the outside it sounds like even if they did bring him in that he would be a marginal player in the eyes of the coach (if he saw a place in his program for ur son he would say so). Being strung a long also could be the coaches saftey net,,,give ur self as many options as possible.

Newcomer:
It is normal to get confused during recruitment of your son The roller coaster ride is normal, I think.
The closest thing to a manual about recruitment that we found was this message board, that helped us tremendously. Yeah, HSBBWEB !!!
Ultimately, we did research, asked questions and it boiled down to gut feeling about what son felt was right for him. And school that was best fit for him.
A lot can be said for a program that wants you, but each situation is different. Have you checked the D-1 camp school's roster of players in same position as your son?
Also let us know how everything turns out... and things usually turn out positive
Good luck to you and it is pretty darned neat to have college coaches interested in your son.
Also not all D-1 pitchers pitch in the 90s as flat pitch in 90s can exit stage left with a motor on it. My boy's gotten whiplash when he's up in the zone with that four seamer. But, he gets very good results with change and hook. Location and movement are very important, especially with those metal bats. There are a lot of pitchers at D-1 level with your son's velo that are successful if they have some nasty stuff to break it up with. I don't know why I had to mention that but I just had to.

I would say the coach is stringing you along to see who else actually signs. Your a backup. There is interest but they are more interested in others. Maybe if you get others interested you can get the bidding started.

since when is throwing 85-88 not DI material.

never put your eggs in one basket. what will you do if this offer from the school never materializes.

your son will do himself a bigger service by allowing others to see how well he fits into their programs.

Fellow posters. I come with news. We got the big call today. D1 school called my husband and said they want the boy! I am sitting here trying to write a 20page paper for my grad school class and I can no longer think about the topic at all. Conversation with coach did NOT make mention NLI but, then, the coach was very excited and wanted to know whether we wanted to give son the news or whether son should call coach and get the news direct. Apparently, we will be asked to come to the school for long talk with coaching staff this week. You all will be proud of me.. I did the hsbaseballweb thing with my husband on the phone: "let's think rationally here for a minute..what do they want to DO with our boy?" I am busy now checking archived posts about initial conversations with college coaches about this question and others. But I wanted all of you to know this news. Whether or not it works out, I am eternally grateful for the support here. More to come, I hope! Cheers to all.

Hope that it works out for your son.

quote:

I am busy now checking archived posts about initial conversations with college coaches about this question and others.

Consider just listening and observing..........

Your son is not the first recruit they have ever signed.

I bet they answer all the questions you would ever have, without you asking.