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Obstruction rule. legal or lack of etiquette

J J.OchoaMember
During my son's baseball game the other day the shortstop circled in front of a player (leading off from secon base) blocking the view of the base runner to the pitcher. When the shortstop passed in front of the runner the pitcher threw over to second base attempting to pick the runner off. Is this leagal? Or would it just be considered a lack of etiquette?
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Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by J.Ochoa:
Thank you very much. Is that a high school rule or little league rule. My son plays little league, junior div right now, but goes to high school next year. California..Thank you so much again...


I don't know the LL add-on rules, but it doesn't violate a rule in the Official Baseball Rules.
Last edited by Jimmy03
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
At the high school level it's not illegal and you see some teams run it. I don't see it as bush league but you rarely see it work on the good teams. It's meant more for the weaker teams which raises the question of "why do it"? Maybe if you have a team you are supposed to beat easily hanging around then it might be a good time to use it but let's face it - you got other things to worry about than executing this play.

I teach my guys that if they are on the base and all of a sudden players start moving around in ways they are not normal or there's more talking than normal (like the whole team yelling bunt when the guy at the plate hasn't squared) then something is on and shorten up their lead with the intent of getting back to the bag.

If you get picked on this move then you either fell asleep on the bases or someone needs to teach you the game.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
At the high school level it's not illegal and you see some teams run it. I don't see it as bush league but you rarely see it work on the good teams. It's meant more for the weaker teams which raises the question of "why do it"? Maybe if you have a team you are supposed to beat easily hanging around then it might be a good time to use it but let's face it - you got other things to worry about than executing this play.

I teach my guys that if they are on the base and all of a sudden players start moving around in ways they are not normal or there's more talking than normal (like the whole team yelling bunt when the guy at the plate hasn't squared) then something is on and shorten up their lead with the intent of getting back to the bag.

If you get picked on this move then you either fell asleep on the bases or someone needs to teach you the game.


I worked a game in which team A employed this tactic twice early in the game. Both times team B's runner would wait until the fielder began crossing his path in the baseline and would take off for third. Collision...obstruction...runner gets third.

I'm surpised it took two obstruction calls to awaken team A's coach.
Last edited by Jimmy03
J J.OchoaMember
Its interesting. I had so much respect for this manager. Now, I feel sorry for him. The win at any cost is sad and it takes away from the game. Teaching kids to block the view of another player is underhanded and petty and there's know one who can argue that this play respectable. I guess some people will always find away to take advantge of a rule or lack of a rule.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by J.Ochoa:
Its interesting. I had so much respect for this manager. Now, I feel sorry for him. The win at any cost is sad and it takes away from the game. Teaching kids to block the view of another player is underhanded and petty and there's know one who can argue that this play respectable. I guess some people will always find away to take advantge of a rule or lack of a rule.


You getting too emotional over a legal ploy. The runner's feet aren't set in concrete. Instead of fretting over it, counter it and they will stop using it.

You asked why this isn't done at the ML level...it's because it doesn't work at that level and it would be considered bush league to even try it. It doesn't have to work at any level.
J J.OchoaMember
Your correct. We will run the short stop over on the way to third causing a collision, be awarded third base due to obstruction. Thanks for the advise. By the way. wasn't worried that the play would work. Didn't work the first two times they tried it. Wanted to know if it was legal? or just considered a chicken-**** move by the manager. Got my answer!!!
I ironhorse5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:

I worked a game in which team A employed this tactic twice early in the game. Both times team B's runner would wait until the fielder began crossing his path in the baseline and would take off for third. Collision...obstruction...runner gets third.

I'm surpised it took two obstruction calls to awaken team A's coach.


This is how we coach it. Kinda makes the other coach feel dumb. Or it should.
N NJUmp10+ posts
I did find this "Did you see the end of the Seattle-Tampa Bay game last night. Tie score in the bottom of the 10th, bases loaded, one out. Pop-up to very shallow LF (LF was already playing in, because of the situation). After the catch the 3B umpire rules that the Mariner SS obstructed the view of the runner on 3rd, preventing him from seeing when to tag-up and head home. (As if he would when the LF was almost on the infield skin). Thus the runner was awarded one base..game over.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by NJUmp:
I did find this "Did you see the end of the Seattle-Tampa Bay game last night. Tie score in the bottom of the 10th, bases loaded, one out. Pop-up to very shallow LF (LF was already playing in, because of the situation). After the catch the 3B umpire rules that the Mariner SS obstructed the view of the runner on 3rd, preventing him from seeing when to tag-up and head home. (As if he would when the LF was almost on the infield skin). Thus the runner was awarded one base..game over.


That was what, six years ago? The Mariner skipper was ejected the next day at the plate conference. Later, the calling umpire, Paul Emmel, and the crew chief (West) were "corrected" by their supervisors for the call. That called had never been made before in MLB and it won't be made again. There is no visual obstruction in OBR.

And as others questioned at the time, where was the base coach?
Last edited by Jimmy03
jjkjjk500+ posts
Seems I remember A-Rod getting called for this a couple 3 years ago as a Yankee?

The OP shouldn't have any consideration for obs.
D's allowed to keep a runner honest, as long as the D ain't face guarding R, there should be no problem. R2's certainly entitled to move freely about.
And the amatuer's, the D is still protected, MC rules wouldn't allow say going "out of your way" to contact one. PU is the one watching this play from 100'+ ft away, don't make anything "look funny" out there.
Call it bush, I don't think "it" is, however. the running of it poorly or often or poorly and often would be bush..
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jjk:
Seems I remember A-Rod getting called for this a couple 3 years ago as a Yankee?


No...A-Rod got called out for slapping the ball out of the hand of the pitcher who was trying to tag him out. The classy Yankee fans responded by throwing trash on the field for about ten minutes.
Last edited by Jimmy03
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Don't forget A-Rod also went past a third baseman on a pop up and yelled "mine" or something along those lines which caused him to think the shortstop was calling him off. You know with stuff like this you would think A-Rod would be the MLB leader in hits batsmen.

I used to tell my team to try and get tied up with the shortstop when he came through in front but after a game where we got picked a couple of times because it wasn't called. I just go with the shorten it up and get back to the bag if they pick. Overall we still have to execute our baserunning and our hitters still have to put the ball in play.

It's a good strategy to try and get tangled up but I would rather not depend on the umpires to let us advance on the bases. If it happens then we will take it but overall its our job to get over and in.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
Both the MLBUM and J/R have specific case plays regarding visual obstruction during a fly ball. From the 2007 edition of the Major League Baseball Umpires Manual 6.23 (11):

Runner on third base, one out. Batter hits a fly ball to right-center field, and the runner goes back to third base to tag up. Third baseman approaches the runner, faces him, and jockeys back and forth, intentionally trying to block the runner's view of the fielder catching the ball.
Ruling: This is obstruction under Official Baseball Rule 7.06(b). The umpire should call the infraction when it occurs and award bases, if any, in the appropriate manner.

My recollection of the Mariners-Tampa Bay situation is that Emmel appparently decided to treat the obstruction as Type A, and so awarded home. The ruling in the MLBUM is to award the appropriate base, which in that situation should have been third.
jjkjjk500+ posts
quote:
Don't forget A-Rod also went past a third baseman on a pop up and yelled "mine" or something along those lines which caused him to think the shortstop was calling him off.


Your right. But I'm still thinking he got called for blocking an R3's view? What a shame the best player in BB, pulling shenanagins?
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jjk:
quote:
Don't forget A-Rod also went past a third baseman on a pop up and yelled "mine" or something along those lines which caused him to think the shortstop was calling him off.


Your right. But I'm still thinking he got called for blocking an R3's view? What a shame the best player in BB, pulling shenanagins?


Well,after 3F reminded me of the MLBUM perhaps I shouldn't trust my memory as much, but the ML umpire I've been speaking with on this insists that the call in the Mariners game is the sole call in the the ML and still says that the supervisors insisted it was the wrong call and that we won't see it again.

The example in the MLBUM he tells me is one of an extreme, "Grandma can see it from home", situation and not the typical, "scteening" situation. After he expressed doubts that any Major Leaguer would do anything so bush, I reminded him of A-Rod and his penchant for cheating.

I don't believe the MLBUM case is relevant to the OP which contains a legitimate move by the defense, and I think that was the supervisors difficulty with Emmel's call, there was no such behavior.

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