October 26th Bergen Beach "Tryout" at Concordia College

Baseball 9R

You must understand that at the elite, no rather
national, no that is not quite right either.... yes
the right word is WORLDWIDE baseball recruiting process, lack of time to follow up on a contractual
agreements must sometimes fall to the backburner of the "to do list." The real sad part in this situation is that aside from the parting of $200.00 of which your son received at least some value due to specific coach's instruction, is that he is missing the evaulation that may help him become a better ball player. When my kids attended camps it was only to compete with like-minded athletes and to "get better". Sure would hate to be the kid who checks the mail every day for an evaluation to help them get better that never arrives.

Im just surprised that coach Spiro would want to get involved with Bergen .

Thanks for the detailed and comprehensive assessment of your experience. I'm confident your efforts to share will assist a good number of parents with making highly informed decisions in the future. Giving back is the essence of this sites nature.

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You've handled the situation well while helping others...thumbs up to you baseball9r. Welcome aboard and thanks for posting.

I'll add my thanks also. You are not the first on this site to question the motives of Bergen Beach and the "pay to tryout" system they employ.

Have you tried contacting Coach Spiro directly? He may also appreciate knowing the outcome of the "tryout" that had his name associated with it.

For enquiring minds, just search for "bergen" on this forum and you can read some of the other postings on this issue from the past.

quote:

Originally posted by mythreesons:
I'll add my thanks also. You are not the first on this site to question the motives of Bergen Beach and the "pay to tryout" system they employ.

Have you tried contacting Coach Spiro directly? He may also appreciate knowing the outcome of the "tryout" that had his name associated with it.

Thanks for the reply. I have notified both Coach Spiro of Concordia and executives with the Chicago Pitch and Hit Club of this matter. I thought that both organizations would want to know about this.

My son has friends and travel ball teammates that are considering Concordia as a place to study and play baseball in college. I can't imagine that Coach Spiro, or any college baseball coach, would not be concerned with this.

John Kosar

Good deal - I guess what Bergen doesn't understand is that in Illinois we "pay to play" not to tryout!

Check in often 9r... lots of good stuff to be found here. And you just added to it!

I would always caution when paying anyone $200 for an evaluation. First off, it assumes that they actually know something. I have been around pitching coaches/experts my whole life- with myself and two boys, & I don't want to start up a war or anything, but probably half of the people who think they actually know something about pitching really don't. Same probably applies for other parts of the game.

You can go to an MLB tryout camp, get better feedback, and I think they are much more unbiased. No agenda & it is FREE. JMHO

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quote:

Originally posted by nc42dad:
I don't want to start up a war or anything...

Suit yourself nc42dad.

How about a skirmish?

Would you consider an incursion?

Dust-up?

Or perhaps a fracas?

A brawl?

Or merely a quarrel?

How 'bout "Peace in the Valley!"

I just remember what happen the last time this team's name was mentioned here. My wife rips me enough!!!!!!!!!!!

Baseball9r - thanks for sharing! It is helpful info for all.

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quote:

Originally posted by nc42dad:
How 'bout "Peace in the Valley!"

Sounds like an accord between Uncle Sam and Chief Joseph or something from FTD...

Seems like it was a song I heard somewhere........

I always thought it was a chant!

Down in the valley where the green grass grows,
There sat <jumper> pretty as a rose.
Up came <a boy in the class, particularly one the jumper likes> and kissed
her on the cheek,
How many kisses did she get this week?

Count until she messes up.

And if you think $200.00 was a lot of dough... How about the $995.00 Team Illinois is asking? A thousand dollars? For a CAMP? In this economy? I'm speechless. Think I'll go bang my head on a wall until it bleeds.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:

Or perhaps a fracas?

Hey, watch your mouth!

It doesn't look like anyone is going to answer on the original post, so maybe someone else knows - who IS Team Illinois?

quote:

Originally posted by JKennedy:
And if you think $200.00 was a lot of dough... How about the $995.00 Team Illinois is asking? A thousand dollars? For a CAMP? In this economy? I'm speechless. Think I'll go bang my head on a wall until it bleeds.

And yet, there will be families who will hand over the dough without much hesitation......thinking it will make a difference.....

And yes, who IS Team Illinois? Or WHAT IS Team Illinois?

What really bothers me about this thing is that if the kid does receive his "evaluation", multi months later, does it really mean anything unless it was written right after the so called tryout?

I'm curious to know what form the evaluation will take..charts and stats? Easy and useless, the kid already knows how he did pitch to pitch or ground ball to ground ball..he knows how ran in the sprints etc. Or, a worthy evaluation of what the kid needs to do to get to the point he wants to get too? Can be useful if it's written by someone who's actually perceptive enough to do this...rare.

Further, did he make the freakin' team? The first cut? Most coaches worth their salt know who's not making that first cut pretty fast. If you pay $200 dollars for a tryout you had better hear something reasonably quick, especially if you're one of the kids who's not gonna make that first cut..shame and not very professional behavior for a high profile team.

In my mind the question is..Have the evaluations been written already and need to be transposed for presentation to the families? Or, are they being hacked together right now to meet a contract obligation? I hope it's not the latter because that's a joke of sorts...honest, meaningful evaluations need to happen right away while the kids are fresh in the evaluator's brains.

Strange stuff in this baseball galaxy...lots of folks playing on the hopes of kids and parents...those hopes make people extremely vulnerable at times. Hard to figure who's trying to snag your cash for not-so real reasons and who is on the up and up...the snaggers are out there so tread carefully.

This Bergen outfit seems to attract quite a bit of flack...makes a body wonder.

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quote:

Originally posted by mythreesons:
It doesn't look like anyone is going to answer on the original post, so maybe someone else knows - who IS Team Illinois?

A good possibility...

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quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Hey, watch your mouth!

My mouth papi? I'm watching it ... or most of it anyway!

Drop by sometime...we can both watch!

Well, if Blago is behind Team Illinois, then we have nothing to worry about!

We took #2 to a camp at a local college that promised an evaluation... had to remind the staff that it had been promised and when we finally received it many weeks later it was a list of skills with a bunch of numbers written after them - incomprehensible and pretty much useless. When we asked for an explanation of what it all meant we were told "any college coach would understand. Just show it to them." We did - they didn't.

The only upside was that one only cost us $25. But what we quickly realized was we had paid for the privilege of filling out a team so the coach could see his "real" recruits in action on the field.

If any of you parents want an evaluation session, let me know, Ill do it for free

My name is Jay McCann I assisted Steve Bort this past summer as one of his assistant coaches, I also played for Steve and I was drafted by the Boston Red Sox out of high school.

I was alerted that some rabid anti-Bergen Beach Illinois dads were frothing at the mouth over their perceived injustices at the camp held in Illinois. I wasn't there but I can tell you that the feedback I received was nothing but positive. The instructors we hired did an exceptional job , the facilities were in excellent condition, the kids received a full day of evaluation and instruction. At the end of the camp the kids received individual time with instructors who explained their strengths and weaknesses. (formal written evaluations will be mailed scroll down for an explanation and timetable)

To address the dads that have openly complained about the camp, here is the official response from Steve:

We run camps throughout the United States, the camps run all winter, we do not send out invitations or evaluations until we have completed all the camps. (Sorry to the dads, we don't adhere to your timetable) Some of the dads are familiar with throwing tantrums and stomping their feet to get what they want. Well that isn't the case here or in the real world. The camp isn't about you..it's about us finding kids who can help us achieve and realize our goals (winning championships) Yes we also want to challenge the kids and see them get better and hopefully land a scholarship offer or draft letter.

We ask several questions: Can this kid help Bergen win a Championship?

Does this kid have the ability and skills to play and compete at this level?

What's his makeup, character, past accomplishments, scouting recommendations? (dads sometimes as much as you believe and want your son to be one of those kids who chart at the top sometimes they don't and that becomes evident when we see them at the camps)
buyer beware if you think your kid has what it takes to play at the level we play or with the caliber of player we select, then by all means sign up and join us at the camp. Get some feedback from some coaches..is your son really that type of player or is it a situation where you think he is and everyone else is wrong. I can tell you this and I tell the kids we bring together every year, you may be used to being the guy on your team or in your conference or in your state for that matter. well guess what we have 4 or 5 more just like you on the roster probably better and you may get in to pitch a few innings or you don't. You have a roll on the team but we decide what it is not your daddy. Most kids accept that, some don't and we show them the door. The replacement is a phone call away. Dads, this is the real world and it should be a wakeup call for some of you and a clear view of what awaits them as they hit college.

What role can this kid play on the team - Can he succeed with this group?

When we offer a kid a spot we are now investing in him, that translates into real dollars. we pay for everything so we will make quite sure that the kid is going to be a good fit.

If the answer is yes to all the kid gets an invite, if the answer is yes to some then he gets put in a group for further consideration..we will send out the invitation based on our timetable not yours.

Now what's the real reason for the vitriol? is it because Bergen has historically beaten up on Illinois teams and raided the states talent? Why does the other organization charging $999.99 get a pass, why the rocket fire at us? Come on dads be honest..The kids received their monies worth, a professional evaluation will be sent to all the kids as will invitations to the kids that earned it..So no matter how much chest thumping, whining and tantrum throwing you do will not cause us to alter our approach in deciding who we select.

Going after the people we hired to run the camp is really desperate and petty. They all did a quality job and don't deserve to have some father calling and complaining. If you have a problem or desire additional information Call Steve Bort directly at 718-616-0572

Lol, that's lame, Jay.

I don't think it has a thing to do with anything you said there...you're just baiting. Read the guy's initial post. He want's his evaluation in reasonable amount of time, that's all.

Here's what he said and repeated at the end of his post...


-"But what bothers me is that the kids were promised a written evaluation within a few weeks of the October 26th event. I sent Mr. Bort an Emil in late November inquiring about our evaluation, and I received a curt one sentence reply stating that the evaluations would be sent in December."-


There are many organizations that can beat the pants off of teams in this state..let's take the East Cobb outfit for an example...You don't hear people on this board ripping on East Cobb. The East Cobb group takes good ballpayers and makes them great while putting together great teams that win. When you go to their website you see immediately that the message there is the organization..it doesn't start out with "Who is So and So (Steve Bort)?" on the home page.

It's easy to see the difference in terms of the "message". East Cobb isn't about any one dude who makes a concsious choice to feature himself on the home page. It's clearly about an organization that starts building from about 8 years old and up.

Most in Illinois, after having a chance to compete against one of the East Cobb teams just shake their heads and say.."wow, those guys were awesome". And, if any of those players, parents or coaches get multiple experiences with these teams through the years..they begin to understand what a solid, class organization they are..they run their tournaments with class and then they present teams that play the game, big time...people here are pretty much in awe of this group and big time respect goes right along with that.

Take a lesson, Jay, there are always reasons why certain groups attract vitriol. Maybe you guys need to go to a clinic on handling yourselves with humility and dignity and get an "evaluation".

It's the message you guys seem to constantly screw up and maybe the folks in Illinois are just honest enough to call you guys on this, we aren't dumb and you guys aren't dumb because you always come here looking to snag players...When you come into other areas where there is some baseball passion, you had better check your approach. There seems to a problem (not that Bort seems to care) because you guys have been called on it many times. Maybe you guys need to hire a publicist for Steve Bort Baseball because he doesn't seem to have a clue as to how to handle his stuff gracefully..very important when you're dealing Mothers and Fathers, no matter how whiny they are.

What the heck do you guys expect to happen when you go around cherry picking and charging $200 for supposed tryouts? Even the average ding-a-ling would know that he's walking a fine line there.

Maybe you guys should take a moment and think about things without spewing a bunch of bait worthy bs..usually when an organization attracts this sort of vitriol on a consistant basis, it's because there is some inkling of a reason. In my experience it's usually because they missed a few items in the "handling themselves with class and humility" dept. Nothing more.

It's not petty bs, it's a parent who spent some money and wants his evaluation within a reasonable amount of time..

You guys would serve the "who is Steve Bort conglomerate" much better, spinwise, if you came here and just said that Bergen was sorry about the delay and made up a reasonable excuse, instead of spouting off with a bunch of macho posturing, baiting and garbage about Bergen Beach’s philosophy re recruiting players to win. That's what every top shelf organization sets out to do..nobofy really cares that you have the same mission statement as every other travel team, lol. It's how you go about your business that you guys trip over.

"Bergen has historically beaten up on Illinois teams and raided the states talent"

I am curious if Bergen has ever played against any of the top "local" travel teams at the 18 year old level such as the Sparks, Hurricanes or Bullets to see where they stand?

You know, all baseballr9 wants is his evaluation!!! Talk about getting defensive. We've been thru that Bergen beach thread (which got deleted because it got SO bad)and frankly most of us are sick of it!

If ___(insert team name here)____ had promised an evaluation and didn't deliver I am sure "whiny dads" would be posting about them as well.

But, you know what? I don't see anyone else posting that about other teams. Why is that?

They should just give the kid his evaluation and be done with it, They cashed the check…

Same thing went on last year, Advertised a Tryout/Camp for a 15U CABA team that was never formed.

All businesses need to follow through on the promises they make with their promo materials. When a business fails to follow through on a promise, they get talked about and lose goodwill.

Jay,

The content and tone of your posting today, which was juvenile and had absolutely nothing to do with the point of my original post to this board, speaks far more negatively about you (not to mention the organization you were apparently trying to defend) than anything anyone else could possibly say.

My original point still stands: if you solicit money for a service, then you owe the payer that service, and within the time that it was promised. In the business world, if you don't adhere to this, you go belly up.

This is my final posting on this. I made the original posting as a heads up to other parents, not to waste my time getting into a verbal online battle with anyone.

Coho is right. That is about the lamest excuse I have ever seen anyone put on this website when they dont produce when they promise something.

Hey Jay, Here is an idea, why dont you charge the $200 by way of credit card when you send out the evaluations? I know why, its easier to rip people off while you are smiling and greeting them while they are walking in the door. I love the the way you guys change your tune after you have breezed through town taking your dump truck full of hundreds with you.

You have demonstrated exactly what is wrong with travel ball these days. So many people making promises and not delivering.

I hope this makes it to the Golden Thread so people can see what these crooks are all about.

Thank GOD my son is through all that BS. Although with the program my son played with his last few years of travel ball we didnt have people ripping us off.

John, we have every right to respond to your post in the manner in which we see fit. Your negative tone and statements warranted a response. You also failed to mention to the readers here that Steve reached out to you and offered to expedite your request. Why didn't you mentiion that?

Not to concerned with your belly-up comment...I am quite confident that we will continue to recruit well in Illinois. Is Bergen right for everyone, probably not. Heads up to the parents of the sensitive nature, do your homework before you attend any camp.

4thelove: Yes we have played top teams in Illinois, Top Tier always gives us a good game, quality organization! Bullets I am not familiar with them but did some checking, a few years back they played one of our teams and looked impressive. Not familiar with the Sparks, hear they did well in a Fall event which did have a number of two-sport football kids missing. Apparently they were formerly known as Illinois Orioles and we always defeated them. would love to have a crack at them now. Heck they could combine all of their teams red, black, white, purple or whatever they call them, couple of coaches one current one former apparently like to join some of the dads and bloviate right here on this board. I'm sure they will have an excuse why they can't play us. It would be fun to have them in pool play. You guys would go nuts!

coho...That was nice a lecture on East Cobb a team we have beaten numerous times, if you are in awe of them come out and watch us. Thanks too, for the advice, we will surely take it under consideration??

quote:

I am quite confident that we will continue to recruit well in Illinois. Is Bergen right for everyone, probably not. Heads up to the parents of the sensitive nature, do your homework before you attend any camp.

Jay,

Can you please tell me how many teams Bergen Beach had last year. From your website it looks like one, with a 15U team that never played a game or has a roster listed.

If this is a fact, than why call them Tryout/Camps, and not just camps if you are not going to field a team at each age level you say you are.

First i have to repeat my original comment . Im extremely surprised that coach Spiro from Concordia would get himself involved with Bergen ...Didnt think he needed the headaches .

Who really knows if this Jay McCann is who he says he is ?? There have been posters on here in the past pretending to be from the bergen camp just to stir things up . Why would a Jay McCann give a rats ##### about the Sparks or any other team ? That being said ..i dont recall seeing this bergen team at east cobb during the summer or at Jupiter in the fall ..two of the top tourneys of the year with the BEST competition . How can you play against the best if your team cant even get into the tournament ?? .Your comments are a joke Jay .... Football players who werent at Jupiter ..yea right .
Were you personally at Jupiter ?..didnt think so . You have no clue what you are talking about.

Lets hear from Paceyga ..at least the posters know who he is .

Jay,
Thanks for taking the time to come here and prove that the Bort brothers aren't the only tools in the Bergen Beach organization. You can be the poster child for the type of person that youngsters can become by being coached by this self aggrandized organization.

I think I'll save your original response above and repost it when you guys come through town next year. That should really light up the cash register for ya!

I have lurked on this site now and again mostly out of curiosity when I am visiting different states/cities to see what programs are being talked about. I am actually writing this from an airport getting ready to travel to your cold but fun city of Chicago.

To start I have done this for awhile. I have played in the MLB for 10 years with two teams and have one World Series ring. This is 10 years of actually playing in the show. I don’t say this to brag (well maybe a little) but because there are a ton of players out there that have been drafted and claim to have played major league ball or play for a MLB team when the fact is they didn’t make it out of the minors or even out of low A ball for the matter. For the past 5 years I have been a scout for the same MLB team and provide limited private instruction including being involved in some extremely select camps/showcases.

I pass along this information for you to understand my credentials as you consider if what I have to say is complete garbage like a lot of information posted on the web or in fact a realistic viewpoint. I continue to be amazed on the self proclaimed experts out there because they have been or their son(s) have been scouted, recruited/drafted, or played some minor league ball.

I finally decided to post because of the discussion of fees and what is owed individuals. I have no idea who the individuals are that you are discussing or the quality of their instruction but I am truly amazed that a quality instructor would only be charging $12.50/hh for instruction ($200/8hrs) or even $31/hh ($1000/16hrs). Even though I have been blessed with a decent career where I do not need to make a living off of being an instructor, if you wanted to tap into my knowledge it will cost you $150/hr plus travel expenses and if I am at a camp/showcase (of which I would only do if there is a ratio of 5/1 or less) you can expect $100/hr (plus paying for any other instructors out there). Also, I would not give a detailed “evaluation” or at least what it seems like the majority of you are expecting. The detailed evaluations that I have seen out there have for the most part been complete junk just made to look fancy to try and show the value of a program. The true value of instruction comes from the direct instruction and not from a piece of paper. The best instruction happening out there is not publicized on some fancy website and packaged in some fancy deal. Great raw “in your face” instruction coming from a knowledgeable instructor is going to cost. I see instructors out there all the time charging $35-$50/hh for lessons and maybe at best they have coached a little high school ball or played college or some minor ball. On top of that the fancier they get with evaluations, 10 step hitting theories, etc, the more people think they are getting this great value. Too many instructors try to overcomplicate mechanics to make it look like they have all this knowledge then try to package their programs as basic marketing ploys. Then on top of that they stroke the dad’s egos by telling them how great a player their kid is going to be no matter what they see.

Baseball is a great game; however it is also unforgiving and uncaring. No one is going to care if your boy was the starting short stop on your travel team that went 70-0. That means nothing. No one is going to care that your boy can hit a 400 hr in batting practice. That means nothing. Quality mechanics, hustle, attitude and of course some basic God given gifts mean something no matter if your son strikes out at a tryout or hits a home run. How you decide to develop your boy’s mechanics is up to you but if you think an average volunteer coach, a high school coach or some low cost instructor is going to do it you might be looking for trouble. Remember, you get what you pay for.

Also, why is everyone complaining on here? I see there is what seems like one program not keeping their promise which to my belief should always be kept, however both programs gave their phone number. If you have questions give the guys a call. If they are good instructors they are most likely not going to be spending a lot of time on the web. The best instructors are out on the field doing what they do best and the only way you are going to get a hold of them is on their cell. These gentlemen are definitely not hiding anywhere they have their phone numbers posted right on the web.

Nate 29,

Welcome to the site. I enjoyed your post. It was frank and your information was very good.

Actually Nate, I think your math is flawed. $1000 for 16 hours is actually $62.50/hour and $200 for 8 hours is $25/hour. And if there were multiple players involved (which obviously there would be in a "tryout" situation) you may actually be getting a few minutes with an instructor, which drives the price even higher. Let's say there were 16 players (to keep the math simple) and 8 hours of instruction time. That averages out to 30 minutes per player which means the cost is now $400/hour. Not sure where your calculations are coming from, unless you are considering multiple instructors. Which again would be flawed math. If a house painter offers to paint your house for $100 per hour, do you care how many people actually show up to do the job, or do you think "wow, I'm only paying $25 per hour because there are four painters!" The cost to you is still the same, regardless of how many people divide your money up on the other end.

And let's get back to the real issue - charge whatever you choose, just follow through on what you promise for the price. The player was promised an evaluation, he did not get it. John says he did contact the organization - he got no satisfaction. So he's sharing what he has learned with other parents - like a good consumer - to give others something to think about if they are ever offered the same opportunity. I personally appreciate learning from the experience of others, whether it be good or bad.

Got to love airport delays. Maybe someday my flight will leave towards you guys.

hh=half hour that is the confusion

Definately if there were promises they must be kept. I breezed through the postings and don't want to get to much into the whole issue regarding the evaluations not being delivered. However from my point the evaluations are probably worthless.

Now a tryout is totally different than a camp/clinic/showcase. I know lots of organizations charge for tryouts which is questionable to me. I actually stopped helping a friend of mine in Illinois that directs one of the national programs because they charge for tryouts. Unfortunately with the other organization I dont have the time to go through all the postings so I dont know offically what they were trying out for.

My point is that if there are people complaining about $1000/16hrs of instruction that equals $31.25 per half hour. If that is an issue either the instruction in Illinois is extremely cheap or they need to look at the quality of instruction they are receiving for the price. I just looked up a quick group instruction lesson price in your area from a random facility at it was at $65 per hour per player for groups up to 5. Im not sure if this is a competitive price in your area, however it does not seem like the camps that we are talking about are over priced as long as their is good instruction. I personally feel the "evaluation" does not do anything to the value of the camp.