That guy Jay....wow how arrogant!
I asked Pildes what he thought of Bergen Beach and organizations like them. His answer was enlightening. He couldn't understand what satisfaction the coaches could get from recruiting studs and then winning one tournment a year with them. Pildes finds his satisfaction from teaching the game, the strategy, developing talent, building teamwork etc. When you win at the end, you feel real satisfaction form a job well done, and you have given somthing lasting to the kids. To throw an allstar team together??? So you win. Have a nice day.
I can only conclude they do it for the money. And Jay showed they don't care about the kids...if the kid doesn't like it, they get another one. I am not sure what the kid or the instructor get out of it. Top Tier or the Sparks do those things Pildes talks about. They care about the kids as people and as ball players.
To Nate: My son went to one ex major leaguer who was a great teacher, Pappas on the South Side. He also went to one who was an ex Cub and Dodger (I won't embarrass him publically)who didn't really want to be there and just took the $$. There are all types of instructors. Just being an ex major leaguer isn't all the credentials needed.
Nate
All " Jay McCann " did was post Steve Borts Phone number which is im sure posted on their website . This is suppossed to give him credibility on here ?
All " Jay McCann " did was post Steve Borts Phone number which is im sure posted on their website . This is suppossed to give him credibility on here ?
bballdad and Mr. Nobody. You guys are both right. If the tryout place did not post their number and is hiding then go after them. That seems like a weird situation.
bballdad...your also right. I have a list of major leaguers that I wouldnt want any of my players even talking to. The bigger issue is the instructors that think that they know everything about the game and screw these players up more than anything.
My point is be educated on who is training your player and dont be afraid pay for it if they are the right trainer.
There is no magical cost to training. If you know someone they could be doing it for free and doing and incredible job, while someone else could be paying $200/hour to only get their mechanics messed up. However, to discount an organization because they are not afraid to post their prices is really strange to me.
However this is not my fight and we are finally boarding! Thanks for hearing me vent some and good luck with your boys.
I hate to say this but .... GO METS!
bballdad...your also right. I have a list of major leaguers that I wouldnt want any of my players even talking to. The bigger issue is the instructors that think that they know everything about the game and screw these players up more than anything.
My point is be educated on who is training your player and dont be afraid pay for it if they are the right trainer.
There is no magical cost to training. If you know someone they could be doing it for free and doing and incredible job, while someone else could be paying $200/hour to only get their mechanics messed up. However, to discount an organization because they are not afraid to post their prices is really strange to me.
However this is not my fight and we are finally boarding! Thanks for hearing me vent some and good luck with your boys.
I hate to say this but .... GO METS!
Just because someone was an MLB player, I would not assume they were a good teacher. It happens to be my job and more often than not, when I get a guest speaker in my classroom, they aren't worth a dime.
I do not know the answer to this but how many MLB coaches even played in the MLB? Did the White Sox pitching coach ever play in the bigs? He's pretty good and I know he runs camps in Lisle that are probably cheaper than $200.
The smartest pitching guy I know, never made it to the bigs.
I do not know the answer to this but how many MLB coaches even played in the MLB? Did the White Sox pitching coach ever play in the bigs? He's pretty good and I know he runs camps in Lisle that are probably cheaper than $200.
The smartest pitching guy I know, never made it to the bigs.
One thing is fairly obvious to me. If Mr. McCann were ever to get out of the baseball coaching business he could make a fortune giving lessons on how to be a pompous, arrogant a**. Does he happen to be cloned from a cell from the Rodman, our great governor?
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
And let's get back to the real issue - charge whatever you choose, just follow through on what you promise for the price. The player was promised an evaluation, he did not get it. John says he did contact the organization - he got no satisfaction. So he's sharing what he has learned with other parents - like a good consumer - to give others something to think about if they are ever offered the same opportunity. I personally appreciate learning from the experience of others, whether it be good or bad.
I think that this is the best comment in this thread. This seems to be a yearly ordeal in this forum. One would think that any parent willing to spend that kind of money should be asking exactly what they are going to get and getting exactly what they pay for. No more but no less. Certainly by the time it gets to the point that a disgruntled customer comes onto a site such as this it has gone too far. That doesn't speak well for any organization. One would think and/or expect that any organization can make mistakes, own up to those mistakes IF THEY HAVE BEEN MADE, and then offer an apology while rectifying the situation. I hope that is what will happen in this regard.
Buyer Beware should be our motto regardless of who's clinic/showcase/tryout we are going to send our kids to. Personally, even with my experience, I was taken one time. I sought to expose those that did so via all of my contacts in this sport and received a public apology, money back ... Once given, I understood that they made a mistake and have never taken any organizations/coach's/facilities word without it being expressly written out for the services my child will receive. GOOD ORGANIZATIONS/COACHES/FACILITIES WON'T MIND AT ALL!
JMHO!
I can't remember the last time I walked into a Car Dealer's Showroom and one of the things they told me was "buyer beware." Or come to think of it, any other product or service salesman has told me "buyer beware" regtarding their product.
Talk about insulting the customer......how many HS and younger kids have money to throw around at these camps and showcases? Do these idiots remember who is paying the tab?
With our economy sputtering, there are a few good things....like maybe parasites such as those we have been talking about getting knocked out of the business.
There is nothing worse than preying on the hopes and dreams of our kids.
Talk about insulting the customer......how many HS and younger kids have money to throw around at these camps and showcases? Do these idiots remember who is paying the tab?
With our economy sputtering, there are a few good things....like maybe parasites such as those we have been talking about getting knocked out of the business.
There is nothing worse than preying on the hopes and dreams of our kids.
CoachB, What exactly should we apologize for? We provided the kids with an opportunity to be considered for selection to our team. We hired professional instructors, we provided a quality facility. We will send the evaluations when we have completed the camp/tryouts in March. The problem here is more than meets the eye. Apparently we always run into this in Illinois. What you have here is a group of pouting fathers, chronic complainers and web message board flamers, sprinkle in the fathers and coaches from rival teams.
When you cut through the nonsense here, what you will find is the kids who play for us have the time of their lives. It was the highlight of my youth career. Someone posed the question "what do the kids and coaches get out of it. I can tell you it was a great experience, one that I will always remember a real highlight from my youth. Why don't you ask some of the kids who played for us, what the experience was like. After all, isn't it about the kids?
Another issue that has been raised here..interesting to note that the the coaches who hang around this little message board also have an agenda. They boast resume's that include playing pro ball? most are about as qualified as some of you dads, what because they played a few years in A ball, and kids the MLB farm system is no picnic. Making a little more than minimum wage, going from one corn-hole town to another with no fans watching...back to the coaches they like to tout their mission statements and while that may be true that they like kids and want to help them, they also view you dads as little cash registers..oh yeah the dirty little secret here is that the bozos have actually carved out a nice little niche here running travel teams that require you to spend big bucks starting with off-season lessons at their facilities with their coaches, then comes summer ball fees, wait not done yet how about exorbitant fall league fees.
These guys present themselves as legitimate experts because they played some level of A ball, probably blew out an appendage, skipped out on college and had to resort to "teaching baseball fundamentals" to 12 year olds ...trading on that impressive A ball resume, then making the all-important jump into full time travel baseball coach?? I guess you real smart dads should probably be asking why these super travel coaches haven't moved up the ladder, why are they spending their time coaching travel teams? Is it a character flaw someone higher up the chain may have seen? These are regular Joes with an inflated sense of self worth, wake up people! Playing for these clowns doesn't guarantee you anything, go rent a cage and throw your own kid BP. Bergen Beach doesn't require you to sign away on a second mortgage like some of the teams in the great state of Illinois. When we select a player, we pay for everything you dads get to keep your money.
Don't get me started on the coaches who also drum up business by calling themselves associate scouts. An associate scout is a joke, real paid scouts laugh when you mention them..guys that have their own business cards made up and hang around park districts? The MLB organizations don't even know they exist, so please buyer beware the area coaches who sell to you that they are associate scouts. Some of these clowns also purchase replica world series rings...ouch
We don't really expect to get a fair shake here on the Illinois board, while CPLZ is posting negative comments about us, I wonder if he will also point and utilize his powerful level of intelligence and intellect and realize that the right thing to do is also post the positive comments..because when you look up the negative there is also positive. Nah, why is that? when you have dads and coaches from rival teams firmly entrenched and ready for the ground invasion..what can we do? Head back to win another championship!
When you cut through the nonsense here, what you will find is the kids who play for us have the time of their lives. It was the highlight of my youth career. Someone posed the question "what do the kids and coaches get out of it. I can tell you it was a great experience, one that I will always remember a real highlight from my youth. Why don't you ask some of the kids who played for us, what the experience was like. After all, isn't it about the kids?
Another issue that has been raised here..interesting to note that the the coaches who hang around this little message board also have an agenda. They boast resume's that include playing pro ball? most are about as qualified as some of you dads, what because they played a few years in A ball, and kids the MLB farm system is no picnic. Making a little more than minimum wage, going from one corn-hole town to another with no fans watching...back to the coaches they like to tout their mission statements and while that may be true that they like kids and want to help them, they also view you dads as little cash registers..oh yeah the dirty little secret here is that the bozos have actually carved out a nice little niche here running travel teams that require you to spend big bucks starting with off-season lessons at their facilities with their coaches, then comes summer ball fees, wait not done yet how about exorbitant fall league fees.
These guys present themselves as legitimate experts because they played some level of A ball, probably blew out an appendage, skipped out on college and had to resort to "teaching baseball fundamentals" to 12 year olds ...trading on that impressive A ball resume, then making the all-important jump into full time travel baseball coach?? I guess you real smart dads should probably be asking why these super travel coaches haven't moved up the ladder, why are they spending their time coaching travel teams? Is it a character flaw someone higher up the chain may have seen? These are regular Joes with an inflated sense of self worth, wake up people! Playing for these clowns doesn't guarantee you anything, go rent a cage and throw your own kid BP. Bergen Beach doesn't require you to sign away on a second mortgage like some of the teams in the great state of Illinois. When we select a player, we pay for everything you dads get to keep your money.
Don't get me started on the coaches who also drum up business by calling themselves associate scouts. An associate scout is a joke, real paid scouts laugh when you mention them..guys that have their own business cards made up and hang around park districts? The MLB organizations don't even know they exist, so please buyer beware the area coaches who sell to you that they are associate scouts. Some of these clowns also purchase replica world series rings...ouch
We don't really expect to get a fair shake here on the Illinois board, while CPLZ is posting negative comments about us, I wonder if he will also point and utilize his powerful level of intelligence and intellect and realize that the right thing to do is also post the positive comments..because when you look up the negative there is also positive. Nah, why is that? when you have dads and coaches from rival teams firmly entrenched and ready for the ground invasion..what can we do? Head back to win another championship!
For the love of God, all the guy wanted was his evaluation? Just give it to him and let's move on.
quote:Originally posted by Jay McCann:
...with an inflated sense of self worth...
Jay,
I'd have to say you are the pre-eminant expert here on inflated self worth.
If I had a positive comment to post about Bergen Beach, I would, but I don't.
So feel free to continue your tirade and see how many more groups of people you can insult on your way to Bergen Beach Glory. After reading your posts, I'm positive you can stoop even lower, go ahead, go for it, Jay...you da man.
You are such a shining example of what Bergen Beach baseball can teach young men. Thanks for the amusement, please continue.
Guys - enough. I know I said I was done commenting but this has gone on too long, so I'll try to put it to bed.
To recap: I didn't knock the tryout/camp, or the instructors, or the field conditions, etc. All I said was:
1) If you're going to have a tryout - have a tryout. Don't call a teenager and tell him he's been selected to participate in elite team tryout, and then call him three more times to ask if he knows anyone else who wants to go. If its a tryout, call it that. If its a camp, call it a camp. DISCLOSURE. The issue here was never the quality of the people coachcing the kids, it was the deception used to get kids to attend.
2) If you take a kids' money and promise him an evaluation by a certain date, follow through on your end of the deal. If the evaluations aren't going to be mailed out until 4-5 months later, FINE - DISCLOSE that upfront. Don't sell me a Pontiac and deliver me a Kia.
Finally, don't ignore me for two months and then suddenly get really interested once your name shows up on parents baseball forum. Its too late by then.
Frankly, after the responses that I have seen by Mr. McCann, I'm not sure what that evaluation would be worth anyway. I'll just chalk this one up to experience, and hopefully save another parent from falling in the same hole.
And, you know, even if my kid made that team, I wouldn't let him join it anyway knowing what I know now. There is much more to this, at least to me, than just winning ballgames.
To recap: I didn't knock the tryout/camp, or the instructors, or the field conditions, etc. All I said was:
1) If you're going to have a tryout - have a tryout. Don't call a teenager and tell him he's been selected to participate in elite team tryout, and then call him three more times to ask if he knows anyone else who wants to go. If its a tryout, call it that. If its a camp, call it a camp. DISCLOSURE. The issue here was never the quality of the people coachcing the kids, it was the deception used to get kids to attend.
2) If you take a kids' money and promise him an evaluation by a certain date, follow through on your end of the deal. If the evaluations aren't going to be mailed out until 4-5 months later, FINE - DISCLOSE that upfront. Don't sell me a Pontiac and deliver me a Kia.
Finally, don't ignore me for two months and then suddenly get really interested once your name shows up on parents baseball forum. Its too late by then.
Frankly, after the responses that I have seen by Mr. McCann, I'm not sure what that evaluation would be worth anyway. I'll just chalk this one up to experience, and hopefully save another parent from falling in the same hole.
And, you know, even if my kid made that team, I wouldn't let him join it anyway knowing what I know now. There is much more to this, at least to me, than just winning ballgames.
John, fair enough, lets put an end to it. I am sorry you didn't receive the evaluation in a timely manner. I have talked with Steve twice about this and he has assured me that you will get it soon.
I also feel that you should have used a little restraint with regard to calling out Coach Spiro and Gallo, they and other coaches were hired to do a job which they did. You appear to have let your frustration get the best of you. This could have been handled differently without the message board spectacle. For the record you were the only individual to voice a complaint regarding this camp.
*Where was it stated that you would receive a written evaluation with a time-frame?
*Why is it bad that Steve inquired about players that were talented that he may have missed?
CPLZ, would love to scrap with you here, I run a business and don't have the time to spend with you. I hear that you are lonely, son away at school, nothing to do all day but hang around the high school message board and show everyone how smart you are..just guessing here but I bet you belong to multiple message boards and can't peel yourself away.
John,
Good luck to you and son.
Jay
I also feel that you should have used a little restraint with regard to calling out Coach Spiro and Gallo, they and other coaches were hired to do a job which they did. You appear to have let your frustration get the best of you. This could have been handled differently without the message board spectacle. For the record you were the only individual to voice a complaint regarding this camp.
*Where was it stated that you would receive a written evaluation with a time-frame?
*Why is it bad that Steve inquired about players that were talented that he may have missed?
CPLZ, would love to scrap with you here, I run a business and don't have the time to spend with you. I hear that you are lonely, son away at school, nothing to do all day but hang around the high school message board and show everyone how smart you are..just guessing here but I bet you belong to multiple message boards and can't peel yourself away.
John,
Good luck to you and son.
Jay
Jay, enough.
I just e-mailed Rodney King about this thread and he says, "Can't we all just get along?"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay McCann:
Don't get me started on the coaches who also drum up business by calling themselves associate scouts. An associate scout is a joke, real paid scouts laugh when you mention them..guys that have their own business cards made up and hang around park districts? The MLB organizations don't even know they exist, so please buyer beware the area coaches who sell to you that they are associate scouts. Some of these clowns also purchase replica world series rings...ouch
QUOTE]
Man. I didn't realize I was such a piece of **** joke. Of course I don't use it to sell anything. But I wish the area scout who got me on as an associate would have told me beforehand what a laughingstock he thought I was.
Don't get me started on the coaches who also drum up business by calling themselves associate scouts. An associate scout is a joke, real paid scouts laugh when you mention them..guys that have their own business cards made up and hang around park districts? The MLB organizations don't even know they exist, so please buyer beware the area coaches who sell to you that they are associate scouts. Some of these clowns also purchase replica world series rings...ouch
QUOTE]
Man. I didn't realize I was such a piece of **** joke. Of course I don't use it to sell anything. But I wish the area scout who got me on as an associate would have told me beforehand what a laughingstock he thought I was.
quote:Originally posted by Jay McCann:
CPLZ, would love to scrap with you here, I run a business and don't have the time to spend with you. I hear that you are lonely, son away at school, nothing to do all day but hang around the high school message board and show everyone how smart you are..just guessing here but I bet you belong to multiple message boards and can't peel yourself away.
Lower Jay, keep going, you can do it, stoop lower...
There's so much more out there for you to insult besides baseball parents, rural America, current and former minor leaguers, instructors, coaches, Illinois residents, travel baseball (all done wrong of course, except for Bergen Beach where titles are won), and associate scouts (of course people of Bergen Beach caliber start at the top, no working your way up for these title winners)... so please Jay, dig deep, you can do it, teach us all a lesson, show us, The Bergen Beach way...enlighten us Bozo's about the dirty little secrets...we can hardly wait.
This is great entertainment. I work from home now and I haven't had to turn on the TV to watch any soaps.
This is much better drama.
This is much better drama.
Now if Jay would get amnesia or claim it was his evil twin that said all of that stuff.
It would be perfect!
(eagerly awaiting further developments, rubbing hands together)
It would be perfect!
(eagerly awaiting further developments, rubbing hands together)
SI, dont you remember them saying you are worthless and dont matter?, I remember that part from the interview.
CPLZ - Dont worry I will be lonely as **** too when my son leaves, wont know what to do with myself. I would imagine all fathers who are close to their son's feel the exact same way, not sure how that is a bad thing.
CPLZ - Dont worry I will be lonely as **** too when my son leaves, wont know what to do with myself. I would imagine all fathers who are close to their son's feel the exact same way, not sure how that is a bad thing.
Hey Jay, A quick check of MLB draft history shows no mention of Jay Mccann in the draft. What year and round we you drafted. Sounds like an illustrious career. Put on waivers for a hot ham and cheese?
Jay, when you say ask some of the kids in the program if they had a great experience, I assume you aren't talking about the ones who you "show the door" because they don't like their roll, or the ones that are "only a phone call away"?
You never answered what the Bergen Coaches get out of it besides money. Sincce it is an All Star team that plays one tournament, it isn't developing a relationship with the kids and developing their talent. It is all about ego and winning for the coaches. And the $$$.
You never answered what the Bergen Coaches get out of it besides money. Sincce it is an All Star team that plays one tournament, it isn't developing a relationship with the kids and developing their talent. It is all about ego and winning for the coaches. And the $$$.
From Jay McCann...
"Apparently we always run into this in Illinois. What you have here is a group of pouting fathers, chronic complainers..."
Yes, apparently you do run into this because there is an active forum here...But, The Bort / Bergen Beach/ "Baseball Prospects of America" topic pops up on forums all over the place...From people in Florida, Texas, the Southeast..on and on people chime in that "This guy Bort has been calling me relentlessly" and there are always questions raised about what this guy is doing and who is this "legendary coach"..haha.
Many folks are understanding that these teams are pretty much filled out before the "showcases" / "tryouts"..and people are getting wind of the fact that these events are fundraisers for the one or two tourneys that an already determined team will play in. Shaky, dude.
Bort's bogus operation..Sure, you guys get great players. You have a good baseball record at Caba..big deal stacked teams can win..not very compelling. But it's going to start catching up to you guys, it is already.
You offer it for free and you fund it on the backs of folks who attend your phony tryouts that are all pumped up by a bunch of the same old stories...major league players who stopped by to play for a couple of tourneys when they were young...It's all hype, designed to get kids dreaming and then snag a couple of hundred from their parents.
I don't think I've seen one.."Baseball Prospects of America, Bergen Beach Baseball tryouts, Steve Bort" thread on any b-ball messageboard where there weren't questions raised about the integrity of Bort and what he does..
You guys toss around phrases like "all kids at the tryout will be elligible to play at the east cobb tourney..." Very misleading stuff.
And I love the part on the application about.."list the names and schools of the three toughest players you will face during your baseball season" What's that for..mailing list material, or, could be the guys who'll eventually BE the team after Junior convinces dad to pony up 200 and send in the app.
You guys are a trip..I've seen this stuff cross my desk for years, phone calls from parents who want to know what these solicitations are and who this guy is who keeps calling..
Funny how you come here with these worthless posts trying to explain it folks who actually have some background and connections in the baseball world..most who know that Steve Bort, legendary baseball coach, is pretty much a joke that's played on unknowing, hopeful parents all over the place...
Just for kicks the forum members should read through a few of these links..
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7216068205/m/2561024641/p/1
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6686003481/m/7801094762
http://www.al.com/forums/hsbaseballaisa/index.ssf?artid=5626
http://www.sunshinestatebaseball.com/forum/post.asp?met...C_ID=6327&FORUM_ID=8
and then the fake myspace page for Steve Bort (haha) only a scumbag gets faked on myspace, seriously..
http://latino.myspace.com/killingteamsdreams
"Apparently we always run into this in Illinois. What you have here is a group of pouting fathers, chronic complainers..."
Yes, apparently you do run into this because there is an active forum here...But, The Bort / Bergen Beach/ "Baseball Prospects of America" topic pops up on forums all over the place...From people in Florida, Texas, the Southeast..on and on people chime in that "This guy Bort has been calling me relentlessly" and there are always questions raised about what this guy is doing and who is this "legendary coach"..haha.
Many folks are understanding that these teams are pretty much filled out before the "showcases" / "tryouts"..and people are getting wind of the fact that these events are fundraisers for the one or two tourneys that an already determined team will play in. Shaky, dude.
Bort's bogus operation..Sure, you guys get great players. You have a good baseball record at Caba..big deal stacked teams can win..not very compelling. But it's going to start catching up to you guys, it is already.
You offer it for free and you fund it on the backs of folks who attend your phony tryouts that are all pumped up by a bunch of the same old stories...major league players who stopped by to play for a couple of tourneys when they were young...It's all hype, designed to get kids dreaming and then snag a couple of hundred from their parents.
I don't think I've seen one.."Baseball Prospects of America, Bergen Beach Baseball tryouts, Steve Bort" thread on any b-ball messageboard where there weren't questions raised about the integrity of Bort and what he does..
You guys toss around phrases like "all kids at the tryout will be elligible to play at the east cobb tourney..." Very misleading stuff.
And I love the part on the application about.."list the names and schools of the three toughest players you will face during your baseball season" What's that for..mailing list material, or, could be the guys who'll eventually BE the team after Junior convinces dad to pony up 200 and send in the app.
You guys are a trip..I've seen this stuff cross my desk for years, phone calls from parents who want to know what these solicitations are and who this guy is who keeps calling..
Funny how you come here with these worthless posts trying to explain it folks who actually have some background and connections in the baseball world..most who know that Steve Bort, legendary baseball coach, is pretty much a joke that's played on unknowing, hopeful parents all over the place...
Just for kicks the forum members should read through a few of these links..
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7216068205/m/2561024641/p/1
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6686003481/m/7801094762
http://www.al.com/forums/hsbaseballaisa/index.ssf?artid=5626
http://www.sunshinestatebaseball.com/forum/post.asp?met...C_ID=6327&FORUM_ID=8
and then the fake myspace page for Steve Bort (haha) only a scumbag gets faked on myspace, seriously..
http://latino.myspace.com/killingteamsdreams
Jay
Solid presentation on behalf of Bergen .
Cant wait to see how many Illinois kids sign up for the next big " tryout "
Solid presentation on behalf of Bergen .
Cant wait to see how many Illinois kids sign up for the next big " tryout "
Hey, guys, I've read most of this post and see very little redeeming value. Jay, I think an apology was needed when a customer didn't receive what he felt he was entitled to and made inquires as to why. Then, for that same customer to be upset enough to post his displeasure here certainly is not good for your business practice. I've owned a business myself. Let me tell you, word of mouth is either your best or worst friend. However, I'm not even an "Associate scout" although I consider myself friends with SIBullets. Hey, does that count at all?
Fellas, I'm going to lock this thread, review the various pms I have on this thread, consult with the owner of the site ... Perhaps we're to the point that we might have to consider certain phrases to be displayed ***********.
Fellas, I'm going to lock this thread, review the various pms I have on this thread, consult with the owner of the site ... Perhaps we're to the point that we might have to consider certain phrases to be displayed ***********.