Just a question here, if a college makes an offer can the player make a counter offer to the school. Example, college offer's 25%, can the player respond with 50%, or tell the college another school is offering him more?
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You can do both, but I can tell you from personal experience that some coaches will not like it. A better way to go about it is to inquire about additional scholarships that your son may be eligible for academically or because of his major.
Do they give you more scholarship money for one major over another? So if my son goes as a business major, can he get a bigger alotment if he calls it somthing else but in the same field? For example calls it (Management) but, calls it Business Management to get a bigger scholarship? Does General Businees get less dollars than Business management etc..? Is that what you're saying?
quote:Originally posted by azallan:
Do they give you more scholarship money for one major over another?
No not for bb. I think what he meant was that there may be additional grant money available from the school based upon major, but I am not sure if that is done.
Keep in mind the bigger offer is not always the best offer. Coaches base bb scholarships on position, talent and their budgets. They all think and want differently, so do not compare offers from school to school, coach to coach. I am assuming you are talking D1, who must give minimum 25% (can be combined) or nothing. Instead of counter offering, tell the coach that it may not be enough for you to handle (the other 75%) and ask if he could qualify for some other scholarship (academic).
The best advice to follow is don't play games, they are better than you at this, be honest.
Colleges don't give larger offers based on their majors, what they do give is scholarships with specific criteria. For example a donor will offer a yearly scholarship in their name for any student majoring in the field that they acheived professional success. Other scholarships are for any student coming from a specific county or a specific school system. It's not that the school values any major over another (wrt scholarships), or students that lived in a certain city, it all depends on how the donator organizations want the money spent.
A coach may work with the admissions office to identify scholarships that you are eligble for based on your major, ethnicity, hometown, etc.
A coach may work with the admissions office to identify scholarships that you are eligble for based on your major, ethnicity, hometown, etc.
You are right they do exist, but one has to be careful regarding criteria and the NCAA. It can go against your bb money.
At my work years ago, my company offered scholarships to children, based upon need and a limit of 4K a year. When I asked the coach, he was the one who told me to be careful, it could reduce his bb money or could be assumed he was given it over others because he played sports.
At my work years ago, my company offered scholarships to children, based upon need and a limit of 4K a year. When I asked the coach, he was the one who told me to be careful, it could reduce his bb money or could be assumed he was given it over others because he played sports.
Is it better to get academic money or a baseball scholarship? I would think academic is better because the scholarship is guaranteed over four years as long as you keep up a certain GPA. You never know what could happen with a BB scholly. Does this make sense?
Of course if the BB $$ is more, you don't want to jeopardize that.
Of course if the BB $$ is more, you don't want to jeopardize that.
Both types are pretty much a sure thing if you do what you are supposed to do. For academic money you have to keep up the GPA, for baseball scholarship, you have to keep up your game.
Yu also have to remember that not all players qualify for academic money, so for them of course bb is the only option.
I guess it's like is the glass full or is it half empty.
Yu also have to remember that not all players qualify for academic money, so for them of course bb is the only option.
I guess it's like is the glass full or is it half empty.
quote:I would think academic is better because the scholarship is guaranteed over four years as long as you keep up a certain GPA.
Depending on the GPA required, the difficulty of maintaining that cumulative GPA cannot be overstated. In my opinion, it may be even harder than performing on a baseball field.
Think of it this way...the player needs likely to keep a 3.25, a 3.20 or at least a 3.0,on a cumulative basis, while also performing extremely well during the 20 or so, often times more, hours per week in baseball.
Each takes a major commitment of time, effort and talent if done without the two being connected.
Make them interdependent means the difficulty, in my view, is just that much harder to do and achieve, over a 3-4 year time period.
My son has athletic and academic scholarships.
For the academic scholarship he must maintain at least a 3.0 gpa so the academic $ don't count against the baseball team. The academic money is for 4 years as long as he maintains the gpa. If he wasn't an athlete the required GPA would only be 2.0 to keep academic scholly.
The baseball scholarship is renewed yearly. Some coaches may tell you during recruiting that the bb $ is for 4 years. But there are really no guarantees!
He also has a couple of outside academic scholarships that he earned due to high school GPA. These must go through the financial aid office and be approved by the NCAA compliance officer to verify they meet NCAA requirements.
And I can't state how difficult it may be (depending on major) to maintain a 3.0 in college. It's not like high school (even with AP classes). Much more difficult in college while playing a sport.
For the academic scholarship he must maintain at least a 3.0 gpa so the academic $ don't count against the baseball team. The academic money is for 4 years as long as he maintains the gpa. If he wasn't an athlete the required GPA would only be 2.0 to keep academic scholly.
The baseball scholarship is renewed yearly. Some coaches may tell you during recruiting that the bb $ is for 4 years. But there are really no guarantees!
He also has a couple of outside academic scholarships that he earned due to high school GPA. These must go through the financial aid office and be approved by the NCAA compliance officer to verify they meet NCAA requirements.
And I can't state how difficult it may be (depending on major) to maintain a 3.0 in college. It's not like high school (even with AP classes). Much more difficult in college while playing a sport.
quote:Originally posted by fivehole:
Just a question here, if a college makes an offer can the player make a counter offer to the school. Example, college offer's 25%, can the player respond with 50%, or tell the college another school is offering him more?
There has been some spirited debate on this subject over the years here. The consensus has been, don't negotiate. That doesn't mean that the consensus is right for everyone though.
Now, about the other schools offer. If you did have a 50% offer from another school, you have to ask yourself a couple of questions. Primarily, is there a difference to you in which of those schools you attend, and if so, how much? If the 25% school is the dream school, and the 50% school is a backup school, it hardly makes sense to alienate the 25% school if that's where you really want to go. On the other hand, if you judge them as near equals, then why even bother negotiating, take the 50% offer. In either case, it doesn't seem you help your cause by negotiating.
Now, if there truly is a financial component that wouldn't allow you to attend the 25% because you couldn't afford it, then yes, by all means, have a conversation with the coach. I wouldn't make it a negotiation however, just an honest discussion of finances.
The other answer to your question is that negotiating scholarship monies seems uncommon from the past discussions we've had here.
Best of Luck!
I believe just about everything in life is negotiable.
If a coach offers you 25% and you see yourself as being worth more than that, you could say something like "Coach, I am thrilled that you even made an offer. I see myself as at least a 50% guy (or other number) and thus would like to wait for a better offer." He can say good luck or he can make another offer. If you tell him you are insulted by his offer (or some other non-gracious remark), it is more than likely he'll be upset.
The key to negotiation is that you have to be willing to walk away from the offer if it indeed does not meet your expectations. Are you willing to walk away from it and continue "playing the field?" Remember, the offer he makes is relevant to his program. He may only have 25% left to offer and thus it is the best he can do at this time. He might also come back with, "If you are the performer we think you'll be, we will increase the scholarship over time." If tactfully done, negotiating should be fine. That is how life works imho.
If a coach offers you 25% and you see yourself as being worth more than that, you could say something like "Coach, I am thrilled that you even made an offer. I see myself as at least a 50% guy (or other number) and thus would like to wait for a better offer." He can say good luck or he can make another offer. If you tell him you are insulted by his offer (or some other non-gracious remark), it is more than likely he'll be upset.
The key to negotiation is that you have to be willing to walk away from the offer if it indeed does not meet your expectations. Are you willing to walk away from it and continue "playing the field?" Remember, the offer he makes is relevant to his program. He may only have 25% left to offer and thus it is the best he can do at this time. He might also come back with, "If you are the performer we think you'll be, we will increase the scholarship over time." If tactfully done, negotiating should be fine. That is how life works imho.
It's good prep for life. If on a job interview you hold firm for more than what you are worth(to them) or for what the company can pay you, you lose the job offer. Are you willing to lose the offer?
Best to become as knowledgable as possible about offer amounts by school, division, or position. That way you'll know how risky it is to ask for more.
Best to become as knowledgable as possible about offer amounts by school, division, or position. That way you'll know how risky it is to ask for more.
You don't always lose the offer when you negotiate---more times than not you end up at the original offer
TR: Right, that wouldn't be holding firm for more.
Worded the way CD worded it "I see myself as at least a 50% guy (or other number) and thus would like to wait for a better offer." then leaves the door open for the coach to make the offer to someone else. Depends on if you want to take the chance at that door being opened and the chance that you won't find a better offer.
Worded the way CD worded it "I see myself as at least a 50% guy (or other number) and thus would like to wait for a better offer." then leaves the door open for the coach to make the offer to someone else. Depends on if you want to take the chance at that door being opened and the chance that you won't find a better offer.
My son had a coach, just in November of this past year, tell him that he pulls back offers if someone tries to negotiate with him after he presents an offer. It certainly depends on the situation, but it does happen.
quote:Originally posted by Brickhouse:
My son had a coach, just in November of this past year, tell him that he pulls back offers if someone tries to negotiate with him after he presents an offer. It certainly depends on the situation, but it does happen.
Brick - you make a good point. That might be something people want to consider however. A take-it-or-leave-it, my-way-or-the-highway guy might be someone you don't want to play for in the first place. IMHO, there is nothing dishonorable with negotiations.
Dustin Pedroia from my understanding had several "negotiations" with ASU. Apparently he had a full-ride offer to Miami before ASU called and offered far less than that. Obviously, he had great leverage but if he would have remained silent and accepted, he would have gotten far from the full-ride he ended up with at ASU. I could be wrong on my facts here but I believe he fully negotiated with ASU. Perhaps PGStaff can chime in on this one.
It is all in the presentation, if you are dealing with a school which cost $50,000+/year or even a state school and they make an offer that you feel you can't afford, you certainly can and should let them know you would like to find additional monies.
Some may come from BB money, other may come from loans, acedemic, and work study opportunities.
Some may come from BB money, other may come from loans, acedemic, and work study opportunities.
quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:
It is all in the presentation, if you are dealing with a school which cost $50,000+/year or even a state school and they make an offer that you feel you can't afford, you certainly can and should let them know you would like to find additional monies.
Some may come from BB money, other may come from loans, acedemic, and work study opportunities.
Great points! There could be a hundred different ways to creatively "negotiate."
I'll tell you what we did. We learned who on this site had knowledge of the coaches who were then at Wake Forest, and we asked via PM's if those people thought the head would be open to negotiations, or if he was more of a "my way or the highway" type. We got feedback that negotiations had in fact happened in the past and without recriminations.
We then went to a junior day with a goal in mind and I rehearsed with my son how he would handle the discussions so as to be absolutely sure not to give offense. Son handled it beautifully and the coach ultimately offered what we wanted.
We were of course fortunate that they wanted him a lot. And also, others wanted him a lot, too. The key in any negotiation is to have leverage. As CD says, you have to be willing to walk away at the end. So if someone says, "we don't negotiate", you can say to yourself, "your loss, see you on the field some day."
Had we learned that the coach would not have been open to negotiations, we likely would not have pursued the matter. First, the initial offer was not sufficient. Second, we would have taken anyone with the "my way or the highway" attitude as someone we wouldn't want to have to deal with for all of college.
I mean, you want your coach to be a grownup, don't you? I'm constantly amazed that coaches say they want to deal with the players like men, but then they don't let the players deal with them man to man. What they really mean is, I get to talk to you as I please, I make all decisions including those affecting your family finances year to year, and I am not open to discussions -- not from you, not from the parents who foot the net bills. Maybe you want to sign up for 4 years of that, but we didn't.
Remember, every year they can decide whether or not to cut your percentage. Every year. You need to be able to go to bed at night not worrying too much over whether they'll just hike your net bill without even asking you, or maybe not even telling you in advance.
I guess if you don't feel you have any leverage, it's any port in a storm. But if you have leverage, use it. Be mature and polite, but not reluctant to use your leverage to get your best deal.
We then went to a junior day with a goal in mind and I rehearsed with my son how he would handle the discussions so as to be absolutely sure not to give offense. Son handled it beautifully and the coach ultimately offered what we wanted.
We were of course fortunate that they wanted him a lot. And also, others wanted him a lot, too. The key in any negotiation is to have leverage. As CD says, you have to be willing to walk away at the end. So if someone says, "we don't negotiate", you can say to yourself, "your loss, see you on the field some day."
Had we learned that the coach would not have been open to negotiations, we likely would not have pursued the matter. First, the initial offer was not sufficient. Second, we would have taken anyone with the "my way or the highway" attitude as someone we wouldn't want to have to deal with for all of college.
I mean, you want your coach to be a grownup, don't you? I'm constantly amazed that coaches say they want to deal with the players like men, but then they don't let the players deal with them man to man. What they really mean is, I get to talk to you as I please, I make all decisions including those affecting your family finances year to year, and I am not open to discussions -- not from you, not from the parents who foot the net bills. Maybe you want to sign up for 4 years of that, but we didn't.
Remember, every year they can decide whether or not to cut your percentage. Every year. You need to be able to go to bed at night not worrying too much over whether they'll just hike your net bill without even asking you, or maybe not even telling you in advance.
I guess if you don't feel you have any leverage, it's any port in a storm. But if you have leverage, use it. Be mature and polite, but not reluctant to use your leverage to get your best deal.
I agree with using leverage.
I also think that players need to understand where they fit in with being an A, B or C recuit to a particular coach.
I don't think coaches mind counter offers, I just don't think most like the way it is done. They know when a player is truely interested in attending their program and school rather than attending for the one who offers the most money. Be honest.
We found coaches asked what offers son had, although some say it's not anyone's business, being honest as to one amount offered, raised another offer in return without asking.
I also think that players need to understand where they fit in with being an A, B or C recuit to a particular coach.
I don't think coaches mind counter offers, I just don't think most like the way it is done. They know when a player is truely interested in attending their program and school rather than attending for the one who offers the most money. Be honest.
We found coaches asked what offers son had, although some say it's not anyone's business, being honest as to one amount offered, raised another offer in return without asking.
TPM brings up a very good point. If you negotiate in a way that shows that you only care about the financial offer and not their school specifically, it will turn a coach off. Who would want a player that doesn't really care where he plays and only wants the money?
It doesn't do any good to negotiate if you are not ready to make an immediate decision.
If you go back and ask for more, it should be because that's where you want to go, but either the finances or the ego need a boost.
If you ask for more and get it, you owe it to them to give them an immediate answer!
If you go back and ask for more, it should be because that's where you want to go, but either the finances or the ego need a boost.
If you ask for more and get it, you owe it to them to give them an immediate answer!
That makes good sense!