Official Visit- Offers

Our offers were presented in dollars, or, in one case, dollars plus books. In each case, we graciously listened to the terms of the offer (with every attempt to mask any immediate reaction), thanked our hosts, and said we'd give it full consideration and get back to them by a mutually agreed-upon time (usually 2 weeks). Put yourself in the shoes of the coach making the offer - would you like to feel your first shot landed with a thud? Anyway, if, after a day or two of reflection, we felt the offer was too low (in our case, we were lucky to have other offers as a baseline for comparison), we called back and explained how $ fit into out overall selection process. We were careful to make clear in each case that they were being seriously considered and that we weren't just using their offer as a bargaining chip. One came back with more $, the other said it was the best they could offer. Altho in many aspects it's similar, it's not as crass as buying a car..."Is this your best offer?" is not something I'd say to someone who could potentially control some degree of my son's fate about a year from now...DO make sure you understand what's covered and what the terms of the agreement are.

Not all colleges make offers on the final day of the official visit--it may come a day or two later or it may not come at all--an official visit does not guarantee an offer

The smart coaches make the offer in dollars not percentage, thus there is no misunderstanding

TXBaseball1,
Welcome to the HSBBW. A very good question. Most parents and players don’t receive a large number of offers before they pick one (at least that was the way it was with my son) so maybe you can get more than one reply and get a feel for the diversity in offers. Offers come in various ways and at various times. Coaches can offer tuition, books, fees, housing, meals, and cash in any combination. The University of Tennessee offered my son a scholarship and it was presented in a unique manner. They said they would pay for everything this semester and we’d pay for everything next semester....a 50% scholarship if my math is right. Another offered a scholarship that included tuition and so forth and gave us an option of either allowing them to pay for it or they would write us a check and we could pay for it.??? If you need to know something about a particular college, feel free to ask the coach if they are going to offer and at what time they are going to offer. I would always thank the coach for the offer at the time it is given. The next question I would ask is “When do you need an answer”. It’s important to be honest and up front with every coach. I never felt the scholarship was negotiable but IF you are honest about offers from other schools, that “honesty” could be construed as a form of negotiations. A couple of things about scholarships: #1. Part of the scholarship my son accepted was in $$ and the check went directly to him at the baseball office. Funny I was always included in debit part of the education but not the credit side.
#2. My son had to medically withdraw one fall semester and his tuition of $4,500.00, which had been paid by the athletic department, was erroneously refunded directly to me. I thought about cashing it and waiting to see if they would call.... but I didn’t. I called and pointed out their mistake and sent the check back.
Fungo

My son was given an offer on both official visits he took but they both did them slightly differently. The first one made the offer on the first day in a meeting with the head coach; we all talked for awhile and then he just reached in his desk and pulled out a one-page offer sheet already filled out showing the percentage and how much it was worth in real dollars. The second one offered on day two (Sunday) at breakfast. Naturally it was the lower of the two since it was the school my son really wanted to play for! This one was verbal and also a percentage, not a dollar amount. I think the reason that these two schools made their offers as percentages is because it applied to the total cost of attending the school for a year....tuition, r&b, books, fees,etc. and they could only make an educated guess as to the exact amount. Or maybe it is just easier to keep track of that way. Anyway, his account was credited with the applicable percentage in dollars on his first statement.

How does a coach hold on to a player that has not signed a NLI. At the time there was no baseball money available, but now he is on the roster.

Broken bat,
I think a player in any situation would be free to go whenever he wants. There are many different things a coach uses to "hold on" to his players. I think we would have to use words like loyalty, leadership, teacher, trust, and character. Players have "needs" and if those "needs" are met by a coach and his program, then that player will probably remain.

Well my son had a very different position. He was injured throughout some of the summer, especially during a big showcase and showed he had some talent and got alot of interest. As he got healthier, the bigger colleges started to call and he was given around 6-7 offers. He considered them all, but he narrowed it down to 3 schools. One school, a local product St. Johns, had him lined up for an unofficial visit 2 weeks before he was going to visit Marshall and 3 weeks before he was going to visit Univ. of Rhode Island. St. Johns was his clear cut #1 choice ever since he was a kid, and when we attended there, they made him an offer in #'s and in percentages. They gave us the #'s and told us what the percentage was. It was a very hefty offer. We told them we would get back to them. On the way home, we decided it was a great offer after speaking with a few scouts and coaches we knew, and decided to try and bargain. We made a phone call back to the coach and said if he ups the offer a little more, he'll cancel his visits with the other colleges and commit now. They said they'll call back in 5 minutes, and believe it o not, it was a don deal. My son regrets a little not being able to see the other colleges, but he's very happy with the offer and where hes going to play ball as our whole family can come watch him play now. Hopefully this was of some help to you.

That was a great post thank you very much....any other stories like that

Our son received a few offers over the phone but he did not go on official vists to those schools.
Both schools he visited did things differently. Clemson gave a verbal offer on saturday afternoon(which after accepted was put in writing). UF offerd son 100%, with a fancy print out, the first night(friday) we were there. He qualified for 100% tuition from the state of Florida, so they weren't actually paying for everything. Also, their atheletic department was picking up his meals, so all baseball paid for was room and books, not really 100% when you actually look at it. All we knew was that it would cost us nothing to send him there. Something to think about. Plus, it was much closer.
He had visited Clemson two weeks prior (they gave him time to go to UF), but UF wanted us to let them know on the sunday that we were leaving
but son refused to make a decision. On tuesday afternoon,the UF coach came to town to see my son,looking for an answer. He told him no thank you.
Something that you should discuss with coaches. Some scholarhsips amounts are based upon first year, campus housing, campus cafeteria. Try to get an idea of your costs once he leaves to live off campus. The percentage amount will remain the same, but your actual dollar amount won't. Most just give a specified amount per month for room and board.

Some coaches will only talk percentages. So do your homework before you step into the office, try to get an idea in advance of what a year's tuition would cost (and pay attention to all of those "extras").

Son's offers were all different.

Duke: $32,000(out of $38,000) all baseball,no academic $ given-Offered by head coach at East Coast Prof. Showcase with followup letter to house.

Miami: $29,000 academic/ $1000 baseball(out of $33,000)-by phone.

South Carolina:$14,000 + academic(out of $21,000) but if son qualified for 100% with academic included then the $14,000 would be dropped to $11,000.?????? Done over phone.

Tulane-Just said 100% would be covered with academic and baseball one way or another-by phone.

UCF-$5000(out of $10,000) given by check-Bright Futures covered academic(offered at "visit").

USF-$4300(out of $10,000) again Bright Futures covered academic, but USF had additional $ because of "Presidential and Honors" Scholarships so offer was very
good.Made at Official Visit.

Florida Southern-100% would be covered-said would pick up what academic did not cover. By phone and follow-up letter.

UNF same as above.

Florida and FSU-no offers, no phone calls, no letters-But son does have a "W" against the Gators from last year

As you can see there is no set way it's done, and bottom line it's less about the
$ and more about the "fit"-from experience.

"Something that you should discuss with coaches. Some scholarhsips amounts are based upon first year, campus housing, campus cafeteria. Try to get an idea of your costs once he leaves to live off campus. The percentage amount will remain the same, but your actual dollar amount won't. Most just give a specified amount per month for room and board".

TPM Great input.

Unless I am wrong though one thing needs to be kept in mind for someone new to the process. NCAA D1 athletic scholarships are for a one year period only. Both scholarship money or % are subject to change each year. The normal procedure I have seen is there is a year end review with the players in which the following year is discussed. At times the money and or % goes up and other times it doesn't. IMO there may be exceptions to this but I have found this the general rule of thumb.

U of A,
The scholarship amount awarded to my son is for 4 years and keeps his eligibilty. That was specifically stated to us from the Head Coach. I have no reason to believe any different. I know things happen, but this was part of the reason my son chose to attend there, he trusted their word.
His scholarship amount was never discussed when he had his end of year meeting with coach. I would imagine some of those discussuions do go on. I know of some who got more this year, some less. I suggest to watch out for that fifth year, things can change.
You will receive a letter each year in compliance by a certain date as to the award amount. If your son does what he is supposed to, it should never change.

TPM

all scholarships, baseball and academic, are renewable, at the schools discretion at the end of each year---there are now 4 year deals-- each year you renew if asked to

TR,
As I stated, after an agreement was made, the coach specifically told us that his offer was good for 4 years, not negotiable year after year, as long as he was eligible. I also did state that he received a letter renewing his award this year. If a coach tells you your scholarship is negotiated year after year, then that's the way they most probably do things with that particular player or at their school. I would much rather hear a coach tell me that his offer is solid for 4 years, rather than a year to year thing. For those that become very nervous with the idea of son not getting the scholarship the following year, watch out for the discussion during the official visit.
I also mentioned something about the trust factor, didn't I?
I would appreciate it if you could actually read and understand what I posted before you jump to corrections.
You recently did the same thing a week ago regarding the mention of when an official transcript becomes official. You were very quick to correct me, though you info was incorrect.

My golfer son had 3 different types of offers. One was a percentage without $, one was for “I will provide room”, and one was in dollars. He chose the one (for other reasons than the offer) that provided the $ offer. I did call back and negotiate a little extra per semester. And yes, VA_sportsmom it was much more enjoyable than buying a car. For some reason I feel like I’ve been had when I drive out with a new car. No such feeling in this case.

TPM - I agree. Ours was the coach saying it is for 4 years and the amount would not go down. We are on the 3rd year although the offer was for more this year. The only guarantee though is the coach's word. If he left to coach at some other school, the university is not bound past the current year.

BDD/TPM,

I was not trying to start any type of fight here but made the comment about the one year only scholarship offer to give my perspective.
With that said and after seeing both of your responses I got out a copy of both the NLI and the SEC Fin Aid Agreement (in which the athletic scholarship is outlined) and which we were required to sign. Both of these legal documents plainly and clearly state that the time period is for one year only. With this said I have no reason to doubt anything either of you have said. Although I do not pretend to know what all Conference's Financial Aid Agreement's state, I have included one of the terms below that is on the current academic year SEC Agreement. This is listed under terms and conditions #4.

" In accordance with the NCAA regulations, an athletics grant-in-aid may not be awarded or promised for a period longer than one academic year".

I would have to make the assumption that all conferences have this same wording.

Not that I am a lawyer type and could personally care less, I might suggest that if in fact the verbal talk's were for longer than the one year period that it could be construed as some type of viloation.

As I said earlier not trying to argue with anyone on this point.....

U of A,
Good post and thanks for bringing the point up.

So I got out his letter that had to be signed (ACC financial aid form). The form says he is being recommended by the Department of Intercollegiate Athletics to the University Committee on scholarship and Grants in aid for the financial aid to the extent of blah blah for 04/05. It further states that if requirements are met the grant in aid will be awarded by the university. 12/80/04 son had to sign financial package with the university, which awards the amount, not the ACC, as he did same this past summer.
No where in the letter of intent or the financial agreement does it state what you have posted nor does anything mention anything that you have posted under NCAA rules, so I can see where confusion would lie as to what is violation and what is not. Your assumption the wording is correct is not so, intersting to note that different conferences have different set of rules for these things.
Another topic for discussion!

We need to get RHP on this one, she fnds everything in the NCAA rulebook.
However, does the financial agreement lie within the jurisdictions on the conferences or NCAA?

I would suppose if it is true, there are a whole lot of coaches out there out of compliance.

From the NCAA handbook:

"Aid based in any degree on athletics ability cannot be awarded in excess of one academic year"

I wouldn't be posting your conversations with the Coach on this board.

TigerPawMom - TR is correct and you and your coach are wrong. Coach Tanner (I presume) is in violation of NCAA regulations by offering a four-year scholarship offer. I hope you do not get a subpoena to appear before the NCAA infraction committee. You should have kept a lid on it.

hit&run, nice try but not so

there is no authority big enough to take Tanner to task - except Mrs Tanner

and OUCH , TPM is ORANGE

anyway we have here is basicly a great situation

everybody's correct

the "grant in aid" by rule is 1 yr renewable committment, as noted

the coach can also look you in the eye & give you his word as man that he will renew it 3 more times

with most coaches that's as good a written document



.

H&R and all others,
After further investigating, you are correct, conversations should not be posted as they can be misinterpreted the same as the parent who may want to hear only what they want to hear.
Conferences word their letters to protect the themselves against any musunderstandings.

The award is good for a year. After speaking with the NCAA, which claims this is a big area of concern, her understanding is that coaches would not do anything to be out of compliance by stating the award is good for more than one year. It is usually the parent that misinterprets the converstaion. The conversation might go, hey this award is renewable year after year and if all goes well, your amount should remain the same. Parent leaves thinking that the award is good for 4 years, as long as he reamns in compliance. So therefore I am assuming a smart coach would not put himself on the line, though I understand there are some (as she stated that do). We also spoke about how important the trust factor is, more important than where you go to play, trust your coach.
Therefore, after another phone call, I am going to admit that my understanding of what was said was on my part. Even though I knew that the award was for one year, I may have misinterpreted what was said in the conversation, which took place many years ago.
One thing, when I am wrong, she admits it. I can only look back on that day and remember things that I found where important. I also seein the letter email to me, his award was for one year.

I would not want anyone to mislead or misinterpret what I have said. The only thing to learn from this is, know your facts in advance and listen very carefully to what is being said.

My son received offers over the phone as well as at unofficial and official visits. Some were in percentages, some in dollars. As tuition costs continue to rise, the flat rate offer in dollars may look good the first year but loses value each year thereafter - unless costs remain the same, which is highly unlikely.

As it worked out in our case, the offer in dollars would remain the same while the offer as a percentage of total costs (excluding, pizza, beverages, etc.) increased after the first year. The percentage offer, even though lower in dollars the first year has already made up for the lower dollar amount that first year.

good save TPM, good save.

I understood what you were saying even if others didn't.

Keep me in mind when playing game 2 of HSBBW baseball. I play centerfield and do most of my damage from leadoff.

quote:

Originally posted by HitandRun:
TigerPawMom - TR is correct and you and your coach are wrong. Coach Tanner (I presume) is in violation of NCAA regulations by offering a four-year scholarship offer. I hope you do not get a subpoena to appear before the NCAA infraction committee. You should have kept a lid on it.

Am I to assume that this is a threat?
I stated my position regarding misunderstanding, and I think maybe Bee hit the nail on the head.

No, of course not! It was written "tongue in cheek". However, nothing surprises me about the NCAA and what they do. Someone needs to police their activities. If you had a $1 for every time someone interpreted a scholarship to be for four years without a renewal, you could fund every athletic team in the SEC!

quote:

Coach Tanner (I presume) is in violation of NCAA regulations by offering a four-year scholarship offer. I hope you do not get a subpoena to appear before the NCAA infraction committee.

Hit and Run
Hey esquire, at least get the coaches last name correct as you give legal advice. Her sons coach is not named Tanner.

It is spelled L-E-G-G-E-T-T.

Hit&Run,
Sorry. We sometimes don't really pay attention and presume we see or hear things just because that is what we wanted to see or hear.

Hit AND Run,
Sorry, I take your post as being mean spirited, not tongue and cheek.
I may be wrong, but that is just the perception I got from your post. These things do happen I suppose.
I also find it rather odd the two of you showed up in one post, just a bit apart.

I saw TPM mention my name earlier today. Sorry I wasn't logged on to give my usual "NCAA rules" post. Anyway, the last few posters are correct about baseball money & NLIs.

Div I/II financial agreements for baseball money are good for ONE YEAR ONLY. When you sign a NLI, you are agreeing to play for that college for FOUR years unless released but the college is agreeing to only pay your baseball $$'s for ONE year and then only if you continue to meet the requirements stated in their NLI. Baseball financial aid CAN be pulled during the year if you do not meet the stated requirements. It just depends on the policies of the school and its coaching staff as to how hard nose they are, but the issue is they can! Then, after your first year the coaching staff must tell you BY JULY 1ST what your baseball money WILL OR WILL NOT BE for the following year. Gotta read the fine print folks!

"Hey esquire, at least get the coaches last name correct as you give legal advice. Her sons coach is not named Tanner"

Sorry, Dad..I was thinking of the better program.

This horse has been dead for awhile … But I also never said that the scholarship was a four year deal. The offer each year is for that, one year. The trust that is built between player and coach (along with academic and athletic performance) maintains or increased the amount. I can say that this coach said he had always renewed a scholarship to a student athlete as long as that student athlete did what he was supposed to do. Again that is some security, but the document is only secure for one year. If that is not in compliance with NCAA, then so be it. I think there are easier and more serious infractions that require their attention. And Tanner is a Gamecock, right?

In order for college coaches to be successful they have to successfully market their program and part of that is marketing strategy to make their offer appear more lucrative to the recruit. I think it's fairly common for a coach to "indicate" the scholarship is for four or even five years. I would not consider these NCAA violation but more of a testimony to the reality that college baseball has become a business. The letter of the law states the athletic scholarship is for one year so we all know for a fact the scholarship is for one year. Every thing else is based on perception and promises. In the real world coaches leave programs, players encounter academic and social problems and coaches sometimes ask players to give up a portion of their scholarships to sign another player.

WOW! Just finished reading this thread and I've got to say that even though the debate was almost taken over the fence at one point, I've gathered a great deal of information. Thanks

Good info on how the scholarships and NLI work. It's important for players and families to understand that their scholarship must be continually earned through their performance and good behavior.

There is much to the 'marketing' side of the college recruiting equation with scholarship money being so scarce for baseball, so good coaches would certainly want to build reputations for being fair and equitable about scholarships are renewed year-to-year.

I'd assume that if a coach that had a pattern of pulling scholarships out from under kids that were performing to expectations or otherwise not screwing up off the field would soon find that reputation tarnished and impacting their ability to recruit top talent.

We hear the negative stories about coaches pulling scholarships, over-recruiting, forcing players to leave programs, etc. Not all coaches are alike.

Rhodes, Ospreys ink first committment for 2007.

Sept. 30, 2005
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - The University of North Florida baseball program inked its first commitment for the 2007 season on Sunday night when former Orange Park High School standout Stephen Dandridge signed on the dotted line to become the newest Osprey.

"I told Stephen that we wanted to make sure we signed him before anyone else did," UNF head coach Dusty Rhodes said. "I had the chance to see him play in high school and thought he was a really special player. We're lucky to be able to make him a part of our program."

Dandridge - who is in a battle with bone cancer, which forced him to have his lower right leg amputated - has dreamed of being a member of a college baseball team his entire life. Sunday night that dream became a reality.

According to Rhodes, when the chance to make Dandridge's dream a reality presented itself, he jumped at it.

"This has been something we have been working on for a while," Rhodes said. "Stephen is a great kid from a great family, and we had planned to sign him right out of high school, but he fell on some hard times so things didn't work out right away. When the chance to sign him came up again, we jumped at it. The chance to add such an outstanding athlete and person to our program was something we just couldn't pass up, and if it offers him a little hope and helps him fight the cancer, that's even better."

Rhodes is confident that Dandridge will play a vital role in the team's success in 2007.

"I think Stephen can really help our program," Rhodes said. "He's working really hard, and he has a great attitude. If it works out where he can get back on the field next season I have no doubt that he can help us. I played against a guy in American Legion ball that lost one of his legs in a car wreck. A couple of years later I was playing college ball and that same guy was pitching for the other team. He did an outstanding job. We're hoping we can tell a similar story about Stephen."

Dandridge is the younger brother of Jon Dandridge, who signed to play with the Ospreys during the early signing period last season after beginning his career with Atlantic Sun Conference-rival Mercer before transferring to Florida Community College of Jacksonville for the 2005 season.

"Jon's a great player who will be a big part of our team this season," Rhodes said. "The thing is he says that Stephen's a better player than he is."

UNF will open the 2006 season on Feb. 4 with the first of two games against Georgia Southern.

Sadly, Stephen died last week. The funeral was held on Saturday at 11:00. Dusty
Rhodes had practice at 8:00 AM Saturday morning. The whole team attended the funeral after practice.

A parent can sleep like a baby leaving a son with Coach Rhodes, and a few others. Prayers for Stephen.

do juniors go to official visits or just seniors?

quote:

Originally posted by streaks zook:
do juniors go to official visits or just seniors?

read here from this website: http://hsbaseballweb.com/official_visit_rules.htm

Moc1 That is one of the saddest great stories I have ever heard !
What a great coach.

Only in America !!!