Does anyone think having your starting pitcher throw 85 pitches and then asking him to play 3rd or short after he pitches a good or bad idea? If you have another option to play those positions but they aren't as good as the starting pitcher should you still just rest the pitcher's arm and have him play infield the next game?
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What age are we talking about? In my opinion, if you have your starter throwing 85 plus the warmups, he should have been taken out of the game not to return. Maybe a DH the next day, but definately, not moved to any position. the arm won't last doing this.
The second option would be better, but I have to ask who was at short while the pitcher was pitching?
Ideally no. BUT...in HS it is quite common for pitchers to be some of if not the best athlete/player on team.
Only the deepest HS programs have pitchers only. This implies that they have at least 17+ quality players if they use a 4 or 5 man pitching staff and want to have 2 or 3 reserves while using a DH for a 9 man line up.
In my estimation only very large schools with baseball traditions will fit this category. Privates are different if they attract enough players. I'd wager it describes 10% or less of the public HS out there.
I agree with luv, my perspective is from a team with PO's with a 20 man varsity roster and 20 man on JV... so I can see that smaller schools might have a problem , but it is still not a good idea.
85 pitches are "little league" numbers. Assuming High school, hopefully, if the kid has thrown that many you're in the 6/7th inning. So an inning or two at SS to complete a game shouldn't be that much of a problem. More importantly, how does the kid's arm feel after the 86 pitches. Decide based on that.
Not really little league numbers,
Pitches per game/games per week
Recovery times
Ages 8-10
Ages 11-12
Ages 13-14
Ages 15-16
Ages 17-18
Agree with luv baseball. Many HS varsity squads around here have a roster of 13-15 with 3-4 pitchers of which 1-2 may be PO. If they are lucky they have 4-5 pitchers. And it's fairly common for the top pitcher to also be the best athlete who plays SS or somewhere in the infield.
What the OP doesn't tell us is 85 pitches over how many innings. If it's over 5-6 innings and the starting pitcher goes to SS for the last inning or two I don't see a problem. If, however, he was switched to SS after only 3 or 4 innings, he probably should come out. As pointed out, some coaches don't have that luxury. They need his athletic abilities on the field and at bat. Fairly common around here.
I would not recommend playing a defensive position after throwing 85+ pitches. I thought I would open a whole can of worms here. Our school (Just over 1,100 students) is very much in the same position regarding the best pitchers usually being the best athletes. The coach has started using the 40 pitch concept for our top three pitchers and although everyone gasped at first it seems to be working well. If the pitcher is on, they are getting 2 to 3 innings and are able to move into another position without the risk associated with an 80+ pitch outing. Typically it has been ace starting and seeing how the team responds. If we get a big lead he may move right to 4 to burn innings with 2 and 3 in reserve. Next game 2 gets the start with the option of 1, 3 or 5 or 6 depending on the flow of the game. Felt a lot like little league rules at first but all arms were healthy and fresh for the playoffs, record didn't suffer, he was able to keep the defense in tact without risking arms and seeing different pitchers seemed to be tough on the other teams so as they started to adjust they faced a new look. Another plus was that in the mop up duty he was able to see what 4, 5, 6 were able to do. Actually 7 threw 4 strong innings against a good team because who knew...he had a knuckle-ball he could throw across the plate! On many teams 1 and 2 get work and below 3 doesn't get much mound time.
Anyway not advocating this at all but I have to admit I was impressed that an old school coach was able to learn new tricks to address today's HS game. I believe taking care of players health has to be a high priority for a coach and if you can do that and still win then you are really getting it right.
More importantly, how does the kid's arm feel after the 86 pitches. Decide based on that.
I agree with this sentiment, but very few kids are going to tell the coach the truth when asked "How does your arm feel?". I do think there are coaches out there who can tell how fatigued the kid is by watching him pitch, but that takes a experience and skill.
Does anyone think having your starting pitcher throw 85 pitches and then asking him to play 3rd or short after he pitches a good or bad idea? If you have another option to play those positions but they aren't as good as the starting pitcher should you still just rest the pitcher's arm and have him play infield the next game?
If I had a choice between putting the pitcher in the field for a couple innings right after he pitched, or putting him in the next day, I would choose after he pitches. Unless he is hurting, after he pitches, he is still warmed up and loose. The next day is NOT a good day to put him in. That is usually when he is most sore and recovering from the throwing the day before. I don't think the same rest periods apply to playing a position as they do for pitching again, but resting a couple days after pitching is important. I don't mind a pitcher doing some light throwing the next day, but all out throws are not a good thing.
Q: Ok with Starting pitcher throwing 85 pitches and then playing infield?
A: Yes.
Q: Ok with Starting pitcher throwing 85 pitches and then playing infield?
A: Yes.
What if infield includes catching?
I think a factor not identified by original post is what was the rest and pitches thrown from last time out.
If same pitcher was brought in as a "closer" on Tuesday and threw 31 pitches to end the game and came back Friday and threw another 85 to get 4+ innings before he was "gassed" it becomes a worse idea.
On the other hand if he breezed through 6 innings after a week of rest and coach is getting him out of there with a lead for the 7th then it is not so bad. On the other hand if this is the case why keep him in? Are you bringing in the infielder to pitch and sending the pitcher to his spot?
This is the problem with using pitching counts as the main determining factor. Pitch count alone doesn't come close to telling me what I need to know about the situation.
Pitch count is a useful tool, but only one useful tool, for decision making purposes. Our society is more content with seeing X=start, X=pull him, X=bad coach. Rather than spend time understanding complex situations, we'd rather boil it down to a simple formula so we can all feel knowledgeable.
This is the problem with using pitching counts as the main determining factor. Pitch count alone doesn't come close to telling me what I need to know about the situation.
Pitch count is a useful tool, but only one useful tool, for decision making purposes. Our society is more content with seeing X=start, X=pull him, X=bad coach. Rather than spend time understanding complex situations, we'd rather boil it down to a simple formula so we can all feel knowledgeable.
But for the safety of high school pitchers I would rather err on the safe side and have specific maximum pitch counts per game and per week set by the UIL.
We have concussion rules now for football its time to have rules for pitchers.
I'm just tired of having to worry every time my sons pitches whether he will be pitched to fatigue or be put at catcher after pitching.
Does anyone think having your starting pitcher throw 85 pitches and then asking him to play 3rd or short after he pitches a good or bad idea? If you have another option to play those positions but they aren't as good as the starting pitcher should you still just rest the pitcher's arm and have him play infield the next game?
I simply feel it's a BAD idea, even though there might not be much of the game left to play. If the team still needs his bat, 1b would be better. And where he might play for the "next" game depends on just when the next game is.
R u asking as parent or coach? Is this a one time thing or happens every time player pitches?
would not allow my son to do it. His HS coach would not allow either, pretty good about protecting arms.
