Okay, somebody had to: Bye Bye Yanks!

Hokie,
I do believe her name was Queen of the EVIL Empire.

hokieone:

Queen of the Empire? Wouldn't that be Hillary herself?! As far as I can tell she is still out there 'trying to be the best Senator she can be for the Empire State'.

Remember...she said she was a Yankee fan. All of those years she spent in NY BEFORE she ran for the Senate. You remember those years don't you?!

Three years x $17 million to 41 year old Randy Johnson. I think Carl Pavano got 4 years at $12 million each. Kevin Brown is still getting huge jack. Jeret Wright got about $10 million a year. All bad deals so far.

Without 17 year minor leaguer Aaron Small who went 10-0 as a Yankee, and Shawn Chicon, they would have missed the playoffs all together.

They have topped the crest of the hill and head down the other side.

gotwood4sale ....
Hot Mama was the ORIGINAL (and still the best) Queen of the EVIL Empire ....

I hope her boys are doing well at Annapolis .....

After watching ARod in the playoffs, how good do they need to be to overcome that choke batting third? I mean he will win the MVP and he went 2 for 20 something plate appearences with zero RBI in the ALDS, for $25,000,000 a year?

I'm glad he's in NY. At least he'll never hurt the Sox in the post season.

A-Rod is overrated. He should not be paid that kinda salary. Say bye to cashman.

In my small way of thinking there were some core players there that were absolutley responsible for winning all those rings. Pettit was one and he is gone. Jeter is still one and you saw how he produced last night. To an extent, David Wells was one. The one they miss the most imho, is Paul O'Neil. He was the best clutch hitter in baseball. They have not won a World Series since he retired.

4 Million in attendance...a new American League Record
208,306,817 in Payroll...a new Major League rocord
Getting knocked out in the first round by the Angels... PRICELESS

or as John Sterling would say - Ballgame over! Division Series over! Yankees Lose, Theeeeeee Yankees Lose!

The Red Sox failed even faster than the Yanks.

Thier combined failures in the playoffs were to be expected...neither team could match the 2 best pitching staffs in baseball.

Phillies say hello to Cashman. Yes!

HiHardHeat:

Thanks for letting me know about the Queen of the Empire. I'll look for Hot Mama's posts from the past.


ClevelandDad:

Those are some good observations that you made.

Thanks gotwood! I forgot to mention Mariano Rivera as another key element to the dynasty.

Look, I think A-Rod is a great player who had a great regular season. He needs to find a way to show up in the post season however like Jeter, O'Neil, Reggie Jackson, and the like.

HiHardHeat or 3H:

I read Hot Mama's Public Profile. She certainly would get my vote over Hillary!

ClevelandDad:

You're especially right about O'Neil. I had forgotten about him. He really would come through in the clutch...much to the dismay of his opponents.

ClevelandDad's point is well taken. And what do all of those guys, with the exception of O'Neill, have in common? All home grown talent. While there will be exceptions from time to time (last year's Red Sox, though only to a point), I don't think a team can win, much less win long term, without building a strong base of talent from within and then supplementing that talent with shrewd trades and rare free agent signings (Red Sox again--Dan Duquette was quite good at this. Theo Epstein, maybe not so good at that). Doesn't it seem that those "blockbuster" signings tend to backfire more often than not (again, Vlad is the exception rather than the rule. I'm sure Mets fans will agree, at least insofar as Beltran is concerned).

Back thru history of the game you will find that many of the super stars did not produce in the postseason

BUT AROD is loser wherever he goes--Seattle, Texas and now NY

HC

I did not like the Beltran deal from the git-go-- he had about 6 weeks of outstanding play before coming to Mets and has not done it again on the other hand the Pedro deal paid dividends for the Mets

That is why I intentionally avoided mentioning him. Although I question paying that much for a pitcher with a time bomb shoulder if you don't already have the rest of the pieces in place.

ARod was brought in specifically for the playoffs, to win playoff games. For him to bat .125 in the playoffs since Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS makes him a huge bust.

Whatever he does next regular season is meaningless because he is now expected to tube the playoffs.

It is interesting how the focus remains on the Red Sox and Yankees and Braves - regarding dollars spent when they dont win it all.

But no team in modern history can match the NY Mets for the lethal combination of money spent and ballgames lost.

They are simply - the best at it.

I say - bring back Mo Vaughn, Jeremy Burnitz and Joe McEwing - and trade away Pedro for a bag of doughnuts and two bags of espresso coffee - and lets get the 2006 party started.

Mo "Team Meeting at Scores" Vaughn. He was brutal.

Dad04,

Absolute truth - the last year he played for the Mets - I saw him back up on a ground ball - stumble - and fall backwards in slow motion.

It was like watching one of those old Godzilla movies - when the monster finally gets beat.

Steve Phillips - what a wonderful job he did.

I love being a Mets fan. I really do.

Its one thing to excell over the course of a 162 game schedule. Its another thing to excell in the playoffs when the pressure is on to produce right now. There are clutch guys then there are guys that are not. Jeter Clutch. Arod not clutch. Does that mean that Arod is not a great baseball player? Of course not the numbers he puts up during the regular season speak for themselves. But hitting a dbl with the go ahead run on second base in the 8th inning in June against the Blue Jays when your up 8 games in the race is alot different than doing it in a game 5 of a 5 game series. The Yankees are the most talented team in baseball. They just are not the best team.

Coach May:

Well stated. Lots of talent, no question... but not alot of heart this year at least.

Someone mentioned O'Neill and I agree- add in Jeter and Tito and Bernie and you had the heart and soul of the team

They do not have that anymore

quote:

There are clutch guys then there are guys that are not.

Too bad you can't teach clutch! See it at every level and you got to love it when it's there.

Callaway

I agree-- you even see it in LL--in 10 thru 12 group you will see kids who just "seem to have it"

On our current travel team we have a number of kids who want to be "the guy" in big situations

I love it when a kid says "don't worry coach, we got it covered"

quote:

But hitting a dbl with the go ahead run on second base in the 8th inning in June against the Blue Jays when your up 8 games in the race is alot different than doing it in a game 5 of a 5 game series.

Coach May
The way the American League East ended should reaffirm that every game means something. Head to head competition counts. You know the Yankees struggled for some reason with the Devil Rays and the Blue Jays owned the Red Sox.
The Red Sox came into the playoffs as the top hitting team. What happened?

Now in playoffs, I agree that big players come up big. So how come so many didn't? Not just Arod. What kind of advantage to these teams have with scouting reports on hitters and what kind of advanatge to they have when the starting rotation can execute the plan? The Angels found a way to win even though Figgins was shut down and Vlady was too? I remember thinking before the start of Game 3...hmmmmmmm...Garrett Anderson is 0-8. Good.
He's not anymore, but why?

Did you see the 18 inning game and the relief pitching that went how many shut out innings?
Amazing, wasn't it?

Coach May,
The Yankees may have the most talented position players in baseball but they are certainly not the most talented team in baseball. Good pitching will beat good hitting more often than not, especially in the playoffs. The Yankees pitching was not good enough for them to win.

I'm a small market guy that has always despised the Yanks, always have, always will. But, there is a lot of hindsite in these posts. The Angels series was as close as they come. If the Yankees would have won we would blame it on the big name salaries. All of a sudden A-Rod slumps for 5 games and we say he choked, A-rod you had a nice 162 games. Johnson didn't come through? he was unhittable out of the pen on a couple days rest, there's heart. The Yankees won 95 games, and I'm glad they lost the last 3 of 5 but to say they did not have any heart is pushing it. They are ultimate professionals. Heart does play a part in the equation but I can think of many cases that the best team lost because the other team played better that day.

I still hope the Yankees never win another game, but, those high price guys did not get where they are because they can't win. Every MLB team is 1 or 2 players and a stroke of luck away from the playoffs. Nobody is giving the Angels kudos for winning we are looking for ways to blame the Yanks for losing. Instead of being vindictive on the players let's focus our disgust on King George and his attempts to ruin the game.

If St Louis loses to the Astros, are they chokers with no heart? If they lose we better be consistant and call them that because on paper they are a better team.

rz1:

When I stated that the Yanks didn't have heart maybe I should have framed it better by saying that the Angels had MORE heart. The Angels (on the whole) wanted it more than the Yanks (on the whole).

Gotwood,
On the surface and as a Yankee hater I would agree with that statement. But, if I were to come up to you, after a game, as a fan, and say "Gotwood, you lost because the other team had more heart". After they picked me up off the ground you would say "rz, You are just a spectator, you do not personally know the heart and soul of this team".

My point. Heart and soul cannot be measured in front of the tube. If Joe Torre came out and said "we had no heart", I would buy the statement. If you or I say it, it's an unsubstaniated opinion.

rz1:

Let me try this again. In my honest,yet unsubstantiated, opinion I do believe that the Angels played with more heart/desire than the Yankees.

I also felt this way when the Angels beat the Giants in the World Series.

I may be wrong but that's my opinion and its based primarily on observations from the tube.

wow is this a tough crowd
Never been a Yankee fan, but I've seen teams do alot worse after spending tons of money (Dodgers, Mets and Orioles immediately come to mind). The Yanks may not have won it all, but they are in the hunt every year. I know that means nothing to George, but it's something IMO to be competitive year after year after year. (Absent Kirk Gibson's miracle flip of the bat in '88) the Dodgers, for example, are in about a 25 year dry spell, I think the Dodgers have already been mathmatically eliminated for next year .

The Yankees pitched well enough to win. Especially in game 5 the one that decided the series. Its not like the Angels had a healthy Schilling and Pedro thrown at them. The reason they lost is they could not get the clutch hits when they needed them. Jeter delivered. Who else delivered? Great pitching will negate great hitting. But did the Angels throw great pitching at the Yankees? I dont think so. It was good but not great. The Yankees are the more talented team. Look at the line up. Its an all star line up. I agree the pitching is average with the exception of Johnson when he is on and of course that stud closer. But who is the Angels stud starter. No better than the Yankees on the hill. They were the better team not the more talented team. But it doesnt matter because the better team won the series.

Coach May,
The Yankees lost to a mediocre hitting team because the other team had better pitching. This was true in the season series and it was true in the playoffs.

Stud starter! The Angels had the probable Cy Young award winner in Colon and John Lackey who may have been a better pitcher this season than Colon for stud starters. They also had a pretty good if inconsistent rookie in Santana and a couple solid veterans in Washburn and Byrd. Add to that Kelvim Escobar in the bullpen along with Shields and Rodriguez and you aren't going to find a much better staff in baseball.

For most of the season the Yankees had somebody pretending to be Randy Johnson, Shawn Chacon and Mike Mussina benefiting from all that hitting. I'd say that Chacon was their only legit playoff starter despite Mussina's performance in game 1. Of course they had Rivera but they have to get to him. If the Yankees had beaten the Angels they would have lost to Chicago. I'd say there are 4 to 6 teams with more talent than the Yankees if you're willing to consider Cleveland and Boston.

According to the NY papers and Talk Radio the Evil Empire is crumbling and crumbling fast--- Stots has lashed out at the Boss--Torre is nowhere to be seen--- Giradi is interviewing for Manager jobs

Fun to watch as the Empire comes apart at the seams but George will rebuild

rz1

What a great post.
Whoever you do cheer for is lucky to have you as a fan. I completely understand your feelings about the Yankees because I mirror those feelings for the Red Sox...lol.

Mike Timlin, Billy Meuller, Tim Wakefield, John Olerud...are all guys I have alot of respect for. As I get older I am sorry to say that I feel baseball fans in general are a pretty fickle bunch. Never used to see it that way but your point about hindsight and the disparaging comments "after the fact" are just pretty unfortunate. No one can measure the heart of those players.

I thank you for your classy commentary.

Chill:

Can one team have more heart/desire than another team? And if so will this have an affect on the outcome of a game or series?