Old schoolers must hate this stuff. But I bet the kids are kind of into it.
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I know you're right on the first count 
and I bet you are right on the second as well.
I wonder what Bob Gibson woulda thought?! 
all i know is that batista's bat flip had me and my 2018 rolling
My wife was cooking and she came in to see what we were laughing about and she said, "are they alowed to do that?"...lol
I could only imagine how hard it would be to NOT flip a bat like that...that game was crazy and the HR was the topping on the cake.
I consider myself old school in many ways.
Personally I love to see emotion on the field. The bat flip is much to do about nothing IMO.
Many pitchers show unbelievable emotion after getting a big out. Why are hitters expected to politely drop their bat and run around the bases like nothing has happened?
I don't agree with intentionally throwing at hitters. To me that is assault!
If you don't give up a home run, you don't have to worry about bat flipping. I do understand there are different views on this.
Football and basketball are far worse when it comes to this kind of thing. Doesn't really bother me much there, either.
I hate bat flips like most, but here's a classic from a guy from my hometown (Erie,PA). His bat flip was probably out of shock as the ball did not clear the wall by much. (From 1987 WS Twins-Cardinals)
Many pitchers show unbelievable emotion after getting a big out. Why are hitters expected to politely drop their bat and run around the bases like nothing has happened?
I think that is a very good point!! Makes me rethink it a little.
I don't agree with intentionally throwing at hitters. To me that is assault!
You recently brought up Gibson as a positive example of someone who fell off the mound. You must like him? I certainly do. While its not really related to this, there is no question whatsoever that he threw at hitters. I never thought of it as assault though, but I suppose some/many will disagree. But if I did, I suppose I wouldn't like him too much.
I know, kind of convoluted. But when I think of an athlete as a head hunter (in football for example), it usually gets me to not like him too much overall.
Whats crazy is that the Koreans will bat flip on dribblers up the middle.
I don't like showboating a lot, but I didn't mind the bat flip at all in that game. Man, what a culmination to a CRAZY inning!! After that weird play in the top of the 7th and all the emotion that went into that, for Toronto to come back, tie it and then Bautista hit that bomb, I think it was just more emotion than trying to show up the pitcher. There's a time and place for everything. Showing up the pitcher is one thing. Flipping the bat because it is a HUGE play in a big game is another. This was a HUGE hit in a HUGE game!!
Echo bballman, this was a very big elimination game not game 89 of the regular season. He didn't even look at the pitcher. Honestly the dumbest part of that inning was Dyson tapping Tulo on the rear end after he popped up. Now that is trying to show someone up, what was he saying nice pop up?
I asked my pitcher son what he thought and he stated in a game like that he wouldn't be focused on the hitter and his alleged pimping, he would be too pissed about giving up the bomb that cost the game.
well I named myself old-school...so yes my gut would be don't do it.
That being said Batista unloaded a 450' bomb in the 7th inning of a tie elimination game after his team lost the first 2 games of the series at home - and as my son said "he pimped in all world fashion"
Honestly I didn't find it offensive in that situation...I was listening to Rick Sutcliff on the radio today and he said if he was the pitcher he tackled Batista before he touched 3rd base and I am sure he wasn't joking. I got at text from a good friend of mine, mid 40's guy who spent a few years in A ball had a cup of coffee in AA and got cut. His text said he would have hit every batter coming to plate until he got tossed...so there you have a different opinion from 2 old pitchers.
I have seen the tweet of the bat flip several times today and I have to say the man did it right if you are going to do it!!
I agree with both above. What a big moment for one and big disappointment for the other. A big show of emotion!
Anyone remember the incident when Bryce Harper was blowing kisses to the pitcher. Now that is taking it a bit too far.
I loved Bob Gibson, still don't like intentional head hunting. But there are times when a pitcher benefits from being a bit wild.
Big post season moments need exclamation points. Few pointed them better than Manny.
After all of that how could you NOT flip the bat like that!
Originally Posted by Ripken Fan:
I hate bat flips like most, but here's a classic from a guy from my hometown (Erie,PA). His bat flip was probably out of shock as the ball did not clear the wall by much. (From 1987 WS Twins-Cardinals)
He didn't pop the chain though.
Originally Posted by justbaseball:
I know you're right on the first count and I bet you are right on the second as well.
I wonder what Bob Gibson woulda thought?!
I'm thinking of the expression, "In your ear." Veteran players would tell rookies if they are lucky enough to homer off Gibson don't look at him. Put your head down and run the bases.
First disclaimer: I probably couldn't hit an mlb homer in a million tries. Second disclaimer: I am a hypocrite. If I were pitching I would have gone after him right then and there. I also don't agree with throwing at guys. But I don't have an issue with going after a guy physically when he shows you up like that. Now for the hypocrite thing. When I played 12 inch softball (someplace I could actually hit home runs) I would watch it, flip my bat, then miss home plate intentionally with my first foot, pause, and tap it three times with the toe of my trail foot. Smack talking and showboating has been around forever. When we get old we just forget!
Everything in context. I don't like bat flips and I don't like showboating but that is a generational problem for old people (like me) to deal with. I admit it and recognize it. Bat flipping (or other calls of attention to oneself) is a punk move especially when you hit over 40 home runs every year. HOWEVER, in this case I understand the emotion of the moment, close game, playoffs, and in front of the home crowd. I said I understand it, I didn't say I liked it.
1) If you had a bat in your hands, Gibson hated you, flip or no flip.
2) Reggie would hit a bomb, immediately drop the bat, stand there and admire it. That's in the 70's, and he wasn't the only one. I lived in the right field bleachers in the mid-late 70s, and after he'd hit a bomb, he would come out to RF and take a bow in our direction.
3) And whatever Ricky did was a show, and he'd let you know.
Point: showmanship has been around for a while at the pro level, and they've earned that right. A Tiger fist pump after a huge putt is a thing of beauty.
In big moments at the professional level, I love bat flips. LOVE THEM!!! Joey Bats flip was classic and incredibly entertaining. And that's what it's supposed to be: entertaining! That's why they are paid what they are paid: their entertainment brings the eyeballs, and with that the ad $$$$.
On the other hand, if it's contrived and/or ill-timed, then a celebration is just plain dumb and demonstrates lack of character, e.g., Swaggy P celebrating a three by turning his back after the shot is released and going back on defense...before the ball is near the rim...AND HE MISSES. What a knucklehead!!!
If me or someone on my team hit the homerun there is nothing wrong with it and is just having fun.
If me or someone on my team gives up the homerun then it's classless and bush league. Anybody who does it is a disgrace to the game.
Seriously as someone pointed out if the pitchers are going to act stupid on the mound then the batters should be able to as well. Isn't it Fernado Rodney who shoots bows and arrows into the sky? I'm waiting on a batter to mash one like Bautista or Schwarber then treat their bat as if it was a sword and put his bat into their scabbard. The way Chi Chi Rodriguez used to do when playing golf.
Originally Posted by coach2709:
The way Chi Chi Rodriguez used to do when playing golf.
The bat flip is just another step in the evolution of the celebration. Reggie, Lawless (see video link above), Manny, Joey Bats, etc., etc.
Yeah, and CHI CHI!!!
Nothing wrong with a little swashbuckling a la Chi Chi. But golf is an individual sport. Nobody failed when I make a birdie.
With a home run, the pitcher failed. So you are showing him up. A little bit is ok - par for the course. The real question with the bat flip is where does it stop. What starts out as a simple bat flip starts to become a choreographed skit. Remember the old days of the NFL. It started with spiking the foot ball and maybe a fist pump for a sack. Then it became the Gastineau sack dance or the Ickey shuffle.
If a pitcher strikes a batter out in a big situation after a tough AB, I would take no exception to the pitcher giving off a little roar or fist pump or whatever. Similarly I have no objection to bat flips.
As long as each player stays in his own space and doesn't encroach upon or gesture toward the other player, it's all good as far as I am concerned. I would take exception to "in your face" sort of behavior. that seems unsporting to me.
As far as "not showing up" the other player, I have never gotten that. If you give up the dinger, the hitter has already shown you up. There's no place to run and hide so that people don't notice. Same thing if the pitcher K's the batter. Batter is already shown up.
You might respond that the K or the dinger speaks for itself and needs no further elaboration. But the exclamation point added by the gestures shows that it's human beings who are psychologically and emotionally invested in the outcome and not robots that are playing the game.
As long as it's kept within reasonable compass, I'm all for it.
Like many others, I'm not a fan of showboating. No matter what happened in the game up until that point, I now have a little negative impression of Batista that will stick with me.
I'm always drawn to the player who simply goes to work, does his best and when he makes a great hit or play doesn't celebrate it with anything more than a humble smile.
Originally Posted by joemktg:
1) If you had a bat in your hands, Gibson hated you, flip or no flip.
2) Reggie would hit a bomb, immediately drop the bat, stand there and admire it. That's in the 70's, and he wasn't the only one. I lived in the right field bleachers in the mid-late 70s, and after he'd hit a bomb, he would come out to RF and take a bow in our direction.
3) And whatever Ricky did was a show, and he'd let you know.
Point: showmanship has been around for a while at the pro level, and they've earned that right. A Tiger fist pump after a huge putt is a thing of beauty.
In big moments at the professional level, I love bat flips. LOVE THEM!!! Joey Bats flip was classic and incredibly entertaining. And that's what it's supposed to be: entertaining! That's why they are paid what they are paid: their entertainment brings the eyeballs, and with that the ad $$$$.
On the other hand, if it's contrived and/or ill-timed, then a celebration is just plain dumb and demonstrates lack of character, e.g., Swaggy P celebrating a three by turning his back after the shot is released and going back on defense...before the ball is near the rim...AND HE MISSES. What a knucklehead!!!
Your reference to Reggie reminded me of a story about him. In his last year, at age 41, he played a final season with Oakland. During spring training, Tony LaRussa, the manager of Oakland, asked Reggie to talk to the team about how he approached situations when there were runners in scoring position. Reggie stood up in front of the team and said "First of all, the way I look at it, every time I come to the plate there's a runner in scoring position, even if no one is on base!"
Originally Posted by 2019Dad:
Originally Posted by joemktg:
Your reference to Reggie reminded me of a story about him. In his last year, at age 41, he played a final season with Oakland. During spring training, Tony LaRussa, the manager of Oakland, asked Reggie to talk to the team about how he approached situations when there were runners in scoring position. Reggie stood up in front of the team and said "First of all, the way I look at it, every time I come to the plate there's a runner in scoring position, even if no one is on base!"
Awesome. That's totally Domingo. 
MLB should embrace Bautista's bat flip
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp...e_bautistas_bat_flip
For a little perspective the writer is 60. He's covered baseball forever.
This is pretty funny.
http://sportsworld.nbcsports.c...ussell-martin-throw/
im a pitcher and i think its fine. im very much against throwing at people also. i dont care how much a guy shows you up, IMO its never right to put someone in a position where they could get seriously injured
I know im late to this party but I hated the bat flip. And I think he did look at the pitcher. If you want to emote, emote like Kirk Gibson did on his dinger off Eckersley. This may have been mentioned already so forgive me if it has. Just my 2 cents.
I wonder what Bob Gibson woulda thought?!
No wondering needed.
I thought it was awesome and good for the game. Look at how much pub that particular flip has given baseball.
Well, there is that, Ryno....I hadn't thought of it that way.
From the NY Times article the OP shared:
"To some, the maneuver symbolizes a break from the gentlemanly principles that have supposedly steered the game across generations."
This is the view I've never understood. Baseball has glorified and celebrated ungentlemanly behavior for generations. Guys like Ty Cobb, Pete Rose and Bob Gibson were gentlemen?
Please.
What did Bob Gibson think?
"Man, I wish they would leave me out of this crap. They bring my name up every time there is some little issue in baseball now a days. Why don't they drag Nolan into this? Seaver gets left alone. I knew I should have bought a wine orchard out in California. Why can't they just leave me alone?"
I think that if you polled professional pitchers, they would tell you that they hated it. And yes, if there was another game between them, they would send a message. I am not a fan of bat flipping or fist pumping. I also lost a little respect for someone I didnt care for in the first place. Showing emotion is OK, sticking it in the other teams face just doesn't do it for me.
Gibson was a Cardinal, he was the designated head hunter, last person with that job as a Cardinal was Chris Capenter.
Originally Posted by Go44dad:
What did Bob Gibson think?
"Man, I wish they would leave me out of this crap. They bring my name up every time there is some little issue in baseball now a days. Why don't they drag Nolan into this? Seaver gets left alone. I knew I should have bought a wine orchard out in California. Why can't they just leave me alone?"
That's funny.
I don't mind a bat flip, in the moment, when the moment is deserving. Ditto for the pitcher with the fist pump after getting a big K in a big moment.
The problem I have is that once this showboating gets 200 replays in an ESPN news cycle, every 331 homer just inside the foul pole will become "bat flip worthy" in the eyes of the flipper. Much like the celebration of the tackler after EVERY tackle made in college and the NFL. Ditto for the receiver who tosses his phantom pass interference yellow flag after every missed catch. It just gets to the point of silliness which in turn makes every bat flip nauseating.
If the players keep the showboating to the appropriate times and events, then it's fine by me.