One Bad Apple

Francis;

Good questions. When I selected our International Travel teams, it is critical to have responsible young 15-18 year old baseball players.

1. Interview with the player and parents.

2. Look for "Non-verbal" communications.

3. Talk with the player's teammates, teaches, Coaches and Pro Scouts.

Bob

My son’s high school team had a jackass on the roster. No one liked him. Junior and senior year this kid thought he was the best player on the team. He wasn’t afraid to tell everyone on the team. He especially had a burr up his butt about my son. He had been playing second fiddle to him since LL all stars.

He was good. He hit .400 senior year after going 4-4 in the last game. He had a gun for an arm in right and ran a 6.6 sixty. He made all conference for the first time senior year.  

The kids on the team shunned him. They didn’t talk to him. The kid stood by himself in the dugout. He tried to make friends with the new players called up from JV. But they had heard about him. My son told me about an in your face calling out the head coach had with him during a on offseason workout session.

The kid didn’t hurt team chemistry. He was ignored. Both years he was in varsity they won the conference and went well into districts in a very large 6A classification district. They got at large state seeds both years.

The kid went mid major CAA. My son had a friend playing in the same program. He was told the “teammate” got into it with one of the assistants in the fall. He was told his baseball services would no longer be needed.

The kid stayed at the school. Last I knew he got his PhD and is a professor there. One of the kid’s problems was he was smarter than most people and didn’t respect them. He didn’t know when to shut up.

I had the kid on my 13u team. Most of the team approached me and requested I not have the kid back for 14u. They were tired of hearing from the kid how much better he was than everyone else.

I coached the kid through two years of LL and 13u. I had already decided I had enough. He wasn’t invited back.

Add: After junior year the high school head coach asked me if I had any problems coaching the kid. I responded the kid was now three years older so any comment wouldn’t be applicable.

I am going to take a different take on this OP.  I was an AC on a very good HS team that we knew could contend for a state championship.  We had a move-in from a bad school/area.  It was obvious to see all of the defense mechanisms displayed by this kid.  In short, he was hard to like.  More than once the HC got after him because he did things that were not acceptable in the program.  However, slowly a change happened and it happened because the players decided to bring him along and accept him.  The coaches accepted him but none of us lowered our expectations.  Personally, I did my best to work with him.  He was very talented.  One of my proudest moments for any team that I coached was when we won a state title and while receiving the championship medal he fell to his knees crying.  Teammates circled around him and helped lift him back up.  That young man went on to have an exceptional college career and did well professionally as well. 

In my experience and observations it comes down to leadership.  Whether that is coaches or team leadership or both it doesn't matter.  Strong personalities can be managed if the right leadership is in agreement how these issues are going to be handled.

JMO.

Can we count the HC? My son's HS team's best record was 12 wins first 3 years. Coach was fired. New coach led the same roster to a 24-3 record the following year.

@fenwaysouth posted:

In my experience and observations it comes down to leadership.

IMO, leadership defines the culture, and the culture directs the beliefs and/or behavior. Once a culture takes root, it can be self-propagating and self-policing – people either believe, pretend or leave. A great coach/leader can leverage culture into a synergy where the results are greater than the sum of its parts.

It should be mentioned that not all cultures are positive, and history is full of charismatic leaders creating immoral self-propagating cultures.  

@JucoDad posted:

IMO, leadership defines the culture, and the culture directs the beliefs and/or behavior. Once a culture takes root, it can be self-propagating and self-policing – people either believe, pretend or leave. A great coach/leader can leverage culture into a synergy where the results are greater than the sum of its parts.

It should be mentioned that not all cultures are positive, and history is full of charismatic leaders creating immoral self-propagating cultures.  

Developing the right culture is necessary for a program to have sustained success. It is absolutely critical - and it begins at the top. The HC is the person that establishes what the culture will be in his/her program. So it follows that a fundamentally good person is the most likely HC to be able to produce a good culture.  It’s fun to be involved in a program that has the right culture. It’s a beat down to be involved in a program that has a bad culture. I have played in both types of programs and I have coached in both types of programs - so I’m speaking from experience. Programs with great culture win championships. Programs with bad culture are toxic and smart people leave. I often say that the first thing to look at when considering/evaluating any baseball program is the character of the person leading that team/program/org. - because they are a reflection of the culture you will be exposed to.

On my son's youth travel team, coaches picked players very carefully based first on player and parent attitude. In several cases they picked player and families who would fit in over players who might be a problem but had higher skills. Interestingly, those kids hey passed on often turned out to be the ones in high school whose parents were constantly after the coach regarding playing time and the perception (which was true) that the kids from my son's team were preferred.

But honestly, later I think there's a little less opportunity to poison a team just because position players and pitchers are so separated — so they really only impact their own little group if at all.

IowaMom;

can you list 5 questions you would ask the Coach or Team GM efore your son commited?

Bob

I agree that ultimately it should be up to the coach to set the tone.  Depending on the level, the coach might select captains and that is part of their job, too.

To answer a part of the original question, I think it's a bigger problem when a good player is showing a bad attitude (say, because he is not playing well).  The coach is likely to keep playing him, and the other players have to deal with the attitude.  This can pull down a team.  If it's a bench player being a pill, I doubt the better players will care, or they just won't put up with it for long.

I remember a great post on this site by @infielddad:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...96#47333374110604996

(In fact, there are lots of great thoughts in that thread.)  The summary is:  any team will have a small group of players who lead the team in a positive way, and a small group that has a bad attitude.  The question is, who does the large group in the middle follow?  And why?

@Consultant posted:

IowaMom;

can you list 5 questions you would ask the Coach or Team GM efore your son commited?

Bob

Hmmmm — it's been a while. I can completely vividly remember the moment they made the offer, where I was standing, etc., but it's hard to remember the conversation.

1. Where do you see my son fitting into your program? What will his role be?

2. What do you like about my son and what do you think he needs to work on before coming here?

3. Is there someone other than you we should talk to with questions about financial aspects or other issues?

4. What are next steps?

My husband asked if son would still get to hit. Coaches answered NO!!

I later called the coach who had worked with my son since he was 9 and is still someone he calls to talk baseball with, and said he has some great offers, people who say he'll be a weekend starter, yadayadayada. This is his only P5 offer and I'm worried. Do you think he can play at this level? He said honestly, that's up to your son and if he's willing to work for it.

There also was a kid on the team whose mom was a friend of a friend. I connected with her and spent two hours getting the lowdown on team dynamics, chemistry, fall ball, personalities, other parents, etc. It was a helpful conversation as far as helping us know what to expect, and how to navigate things.

Not sure that's what you were looking for?

IowaMom;

You have produced "great" answers that would be valuable to young players as they approach a "major" decision that will effect their their future. Research and evaluation, very important.

Thank you;

Bob