quote:Fricken Jack Burns "Black Jack" McDowell of the Chicago White Sox.
Rock on!
Rock on!
Rock on!
I still think Pedro is being overlooked here. What he did for two years in '99 and '00 during the height of the steroids allegations is amazing.
During that two year stretch:
41-10
430IP
288H
26HR
69BB
597K
1.90 ERA
Plus, he has the best FB (94-97 w/command and movement), curve (that was more a 3-6 drop), change (mid 80s change with the same arm speed as his FB) combo of all 3 in MLB history.
During that two year stretch:
41-10
430IP
288H
26HR
69BB
597K
1.90 ERA
Plus, he has the best FB (94-97 w/command and movement), curve (that was more a 3-6 drop), change (mid 80s change with the same arm speed as his FB) combo of all 3 in MLB history.
that strike out to walk ratio is a thing of beauty..
Unreal, no arguement here UK...
Unreal, no arguement here UK...
As I stated, comparing era's is a blast. No doubt Pedro did a good job. Pitched every 5th day or so. Let's look at Koufax, arthritic elbow and all; pitched every 4th day. Here is a combination of the last 2 years of his career, 1965 & 1966:
won 53
Lost 17
IP: 658.2
Hits: 457
ERA 1.89
BB 148
K's 699
FRom 1962 thru 1966: W 111 Lost 34.
Give me Koufax any day.
won 53
Lost 17
IP: 658.2
Hits: 457
ERA 1.89
BB 148
K's 699
FRom 1962 thru 1966: W 111 Lost 34.
Give me Koufax any day.
I gotta agree with Steeley on this one. Jakc Morris is the choice. All you need to do is watch game 7 of the 1991 World Series, which explains itself.
Actually I meant Jack Morris, I don't know who Jakc Morris is.
BBFan58......
Best of All-Time was.....
The "Big Train".
1912 & 1913
Won 69
Lost 13
Innings 715
Hits 491
ERA 1.28
BB 114
K's 546
1912 through 1916
Won 149
Lost 63
Walter Johnson did not have a very good team behind him...no League Championships or World Series appearences. No Don Drysdale or Johnny Podres. No Duke Snider etc.,while the 62 through 66 Dodgers were World Series Champs twice and NL Champs 3 times, the lowly Senators were averaging 3rd and 4th place.
Best of All-Time was.....
The "Big Train".
1912 & 1913
Won 69
Lost 13
Innings 715
Hits 491
ERA 1.28
BB 114
K's 546
1912 through 1916
Won 149
Lost 63
Walter Johnson did not have a very good team behind him...no League Championships or World Series appearences. No Don Drysdale or Johnny Podres. No Duke Snider etc.,while the 62 through 66 Dodgers were World Series Champs twice and NL Champs 3 times, the lowly Senators were averaging 3rd and 4th place.
Wow, how could you argue against any of Seaver, Johnson, or Carlton (esp. that one year he won 27 for a Phillies team that lost over 100 games).
But I would have to come down for the 1968 Bob Gibson. In addition to his record setting 1.12 ERA, when he took the mound at the start of the game, you could pretty much bet he'd be there for the 27th out as well. It would take the best of today's pitchers their entire careers to match the number of complete games Gibson had that year, or the number of complete game shutouts he had that year. So many of his starts were CG's with 1 or 0 runs. What more could you ask of any pitcher?
But I would have to come down for the 1968 Bob Gibson. In addition to his record setting 1.12 ERA, when he took the mound at the start of the game, you could pretty much bet he'd be there for the 27th out as well. It would take the best of today's pitchers their entire careers to match the number of complete games Gibson had that year, or the number of complete game shutouts he had that year. So many of his starts were CG's with 1 or 0 runs. What more could you ask of any pitcher?
I think we have to disqualify any pitchers, ala bob gibson, that threw off the 13 inch mound. Was just unfair. Sorry about that
If Randy Johnson threw off that, 1.12 would pale in comparison to the monster numbers he would put up
If Randy Johnson threw off that, 1.12 would pale in comparison to the monster numbers he would put up
Coach, with all due respect to you and to Randy Johnson, I don't think Bob Gibson pales in comparison to anyone before or since, regardless if he was throwing off a 13 inch bump or flat gound. RJ could be very nasty in his prime, but BG would have knocked that helmet right off John Kruk in the all-star game.
I totally agree---I am taking Gibson--- Man is there alot of choices listed here and tough decisions to make in different eras--- Great Topic Sparky 1--
you can sure tell the age differences of the posters
you can sure tell the age differences of the posters
This is what comparing era's fun! Who wants to be the guy to face Drysdale after the previous hitter slammed a grand slam? Today you can't pitch inside without a warning!
Walter Johnson, one of the all time greats went went 1-2 in the 1924 World Series with his ERA at 2.25. He pitched 24 innings, gave up 30 hits, walked 11 K'd 20. The Senators beat the Giants 4games to 3.
In 1925 Johnson went 2-1 with a 2.08 ERA. He threw 26 innings, giving up 26 hits, walked 4 K'd 15. The Pirates beat the Senators 4-3. In 1924 the winners each received $5,970.00, loser $3,820. In 1925 each Pirate earned $5,333, each Senator $3,735.00. Heck, today that's almost daily meal money!
Walter Johnson, one of the all time greats went went 1-2 in the 1924 World Series with his ERA at 2.25. He pitched 24 innings, gave up 30 hits, walked 11 K'd 20. The Senators beat the Giants 4games to 3.
In 1925 Johnson went 2-1 with a 2.08 ERA. He threw 26 innings, giving up 26 hits, walked 4 K'd 15. The Pirates beat the Senators 4-3. In 1924 the winners each received $5,970.00, loser $3,820. In 1925 each Pirate earned $5,333, each Senator $3,735.00. Heck, today that's almost daily meal money!
Bob Gibson.......you can't hit what you can't see!
1964.Cards beat Yanks 4 games to 3. It was the Yanks 5th consecutive WS appearance.Gibson went 2-1, pitching 2 cg out of 3 started. He threw 27 innings, gave up 23 hits, walked 8 KO'd 31. His ERA was 3.00. Winners received $8,622 each, losers $5,309.
In 1967, Cards 4, BO Sox 3. Gibson began his dominence, tossing 3 CG in 3 started, 27 innings, gave up 14 hits. He walked 5, struckout 26. He went 3-0 with a 1.00 ERA. By the way, Steve Carlton, also hurling for the Redbirds, went 0-1 with a 0.00 ERA. Jim Lonborg of the Red Sox threw a 1 hitter, losing the no-no in the 8th. In 1968 Detroit beat St.Louis in 7 games. Gibson went 2-1, hurling 27 innings, allowing 18 hits, walked 4, struckout 35, including a record settings 17 in game 1. His ERA was 1.67.
Denny McClain, the last 30 game winner went 1-2, winning the all important game 7. Winners broke into rare territory with $10,937 each while the loser walked away $7,079 richer. Oh yes, Gibson also homered in game 4, his second career WS homer.
So, overall Gibson went 7-2 in WS play.
1964.Cards beat Yanks 4 games to 3. It was the Yanks 5th consecutive WS appearance.Gibson went 2-1, pitching 2 cg out of 3 started. He threw 27 innings, gave up 23 hits, walked 8 KO'd 31. His ERA was 3.00. Winners received $8,622 each, losers $5,309.
In 1967, Cards 4, BO Sox 3. Gibson began his dominence, tossing 3 CG in 3 started, 27 innings, gave up 14 hits. He walked 5, struckout 26. He went 3-0 with a 1.00 ERA. By the way, Steve Carlton, also hurling for the Redbirds, went 0-1 with a 0.00 ERA. Jim Lonborg of the Red Sox threw a 1 hitter, losing the no-no in the 8th. In 1968 Detroit beat St.Louis in 7 games. Gibson went 2-1, hurling 27 innings, allowing 18 hits, walked 4, struckout 35, including a record settings 17 in game 1. His ERA was 1.67.
Denny McClain, the last 30 game winner went 1-2, winning the all important game 7. Winners broke into rare territory with $10,937 each while the loser walked away $7,079 richer. Oh yes, Gibson also homered in game 4, his second career WS homer.
So, overall Gibson went 7-2 in WS play.
Sorry, one more feat in a WS. Christy Mathewson. In the 1905 WS he won 3 games, all by shutout, in a span of 6 days! He threw 3 complete games, tossing 27 innings, gave up 14 hits, wallked 1 K'd 18. As a result of his pitching the Giants beat the Philadelphia Athletics 4 games to 1. Also as a result of his efforts each Giant walked away with the princely sum of $1,142, while the Athletics received $832 each. In fact, the Giants won all 4 games by shutouts. Ironman Joe McGinnity went 1-1 with a 0.00 ERA. The Athletics hurlers went 1-4 with a 1.47 ERA. Think runs were hard to get?
quote:Originally posted by BBFan58:
Think runs were hard to get?
Like you said in your previous post, you can't hit it if you can't see it.
How about the same question in regard to a Sox or Cub Pitcher? One Game, must win, any era?
If you're counting relievers, Bruce Sutter of the late 1970's. He was not like the current closers who need to come in with the bases empty and pitch one inning. He would come in with men on and strike out the side and then pitch the next inning.
Ok with the Bob gibson stuff and why jack Morris is the guy.
Gibson did lose the 68 WS in game 7
Morris went 10 scoreless in game 7 with the twins.
Gotta go with morris boys
Gibson did lose the 68 WS in game 7
Morris went 10 scoreless in game 7 with the twins.
Gotta go with morris boys
Corky, Ok, I'll give it a try.
I'm eliminating any guys acquired in a trade; ie, Seaver, Sutclifff, etc.
White Sox: one game, must win, any era
Ed Walsh, HOF, credited with 6 saves in 1908, the year he also won 40 games. Beat the CUBS twice in the 1906 WS. Because I never saw Walsh, my next choice would be Lamar Hoyt in 1983. Went 24-10 throwing 260 innings. Too bad his career was so short.
Cubs: one game, must win, any era
Ferguson Jenkins, HOF, led the majors in wins (251)for 14 straight seasons. Pitched the only six-straight, 20 win seasons in the last 40 years. Probably won't be done ever again. Only MLB pitcher to throw more than 3,000 strikeouts with less than 1000 walks. All this done mostly in cozy Wrigley Field.
I'm eliminating any guys acquired in a trade; ie, Seaver, Sutclifff, etc.
White Sox: one game, must win, any era
Ed Walsh, HOF, credited with 6 saves in 1908, the year he also won 40 games. Beat the CUBS twice in the 1906 WS. Because I never saw Walsh, my next choice would be Lamar Hoyt in 1983. Went 24-10 throwing 260 innings. Too bad his career was so short.
Cubs: one game, must win, any era
Ferguson Jenkins, HOF, led the majors in wins (251)for 14 straight seasons. Pitched the only six-straight, 20 win seasons in the last 40 years. Probably won't be done ever again. Only MLB pitcher to throw more than 3,000 strikeouts with less than 1000 walks. All this done mostly in cozy Wrigley Field.
Rosy, It has been a while since I have thought about Ed Walsh . . .
How about Lindy McDaniels?
Or Ken Holtzman?
How about Lindy McDaniels?
Or Ken Holtzman?
All I know is that if the Twins hadn't scored yet, Jack Morris would still be working on a shutout in game 7 of the 1991 Series.
Some really great name listed here. Makes me wish ESPN 2 would show some of these games on cable again.
They had Gibson's game seven on a few years ago and it was amazing how much the game has changed. The batters stayed in the box and they didn't go thru the inbetween pitch rituals like they do today. The game wasn't even 3 hours long and it was a day game!
Today it is tough to stay up and watch these 4 1/2 hour marathons that get over at 1:30 AM.
My hats off to them all. It would be great to see it on TV again.
They had Gibson's game seven on a few years ago and it was amazing how much the game has changed. The batters stayed in the box and they didn't go thru the inbetween pitch rituals like they do today. The game wasn't even 3 hours long and it was a day game!
Today it is tough to stay up and watch these 4 1/2 hour marathons that get over at 1:30 AM.
My hats off to them all. It would be great to see it on TV again.
Steve Carlton 1972:
27-10 (team lost 100)
30 complete games
1.97 era
346 IP
310 K
87 BB
The most dominating season and pitcher I've ever seen.
27-10 (team lost 100)
30 complete games
1.97 era
346 IP
310 K
87 BB
The most dominating season and pitcher I've ever seen.
good call ig!
Bob Gibson
Correct me if I'm wrong but that magical year he had forced MLB to change the height of the mound. That says a lot in my opinion. Also, he was a pretty good stick as well. (Besides, I'm a Cardinal fan and so, I just can't hide my bias.)
Correct me if I'm wrong but that magical year he had forced MLB to change the height of the mound. That says a lot in my opinion. Also, he was a pretty good stick as well. (Besides, I'm a Cardinal fan and so, I just can't hide my bias.)
He had a 1.12 ERA in over 300 Innings and LOST 9 games!!! To me it is one of baseball's most amazing stats. Talk about run support....
No doubt Gibson was dominating.
Jack Morris was great in the WS in 1991. In the 1992 WS he was 0-2 with a 8.44 ERA. Pitched 10 1/3 innings, gave up 13 hits and 10 ER's. The Braves only 2 victories in 1992, as Jay's won WS 4-2.
Run support for Gibson....what about the year Fergie Jenkins (6 years in a row 20 or more victories for Cubs) lost 5 games 1-0???
Jack Morris was great in the WS in 1991. In the 1992 WS he was 0-2 with a 8.44 ERA. Pitched 10 1/3 innings, gave up 13 hits and 10 ER's. The Braves only 2 victories in 1992, as Jay's won WS 4-2.
Run support for Gibson....what about the year Fergie Jenkins (6 years in a row 20 or more victories for Cubs) lost 5 games 1-0???
Jenkins is also the only pitcher with over 3,000 K's and less than 1,000 walks.
Gibson was the more dominating.
Years GS CG ERA K's W
Gibson 17 482 255 2.91 3117 1336
Jenkins 20 594 267 3.34 3192 997
Gibson was the more dominating.
Years GS CG ERA K's W
Gibson 17 482 255 2.91 3117 1336
Jenkins 20 594 267 3.34 3192 997
Bob Gibson. Possibly the best big game pitcher of all time.