Hello
My son is going to couple of showcases next week and heard from a friend that scouts prefer outfielders to catch with 1 hand. He can do both so wondered which is better. Can you also explain what other things a college scout will look in an outfielder besides the usual running, arm strength and hitting?
Thank you!
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Here is a friends evaluation from a Baseball Factory event (I assume these are the things looked at):
-good path to the ball
-quick
-accurate throws to the plate
-good carry (Don't ask me what this is because I don't know)
-dry step was good
-above average arm strength, but he threw from too low of a socket and it affected his speed
-Caught with only one hand, that is the kiss of death when coaches see that, MUST have two hands up so he can get the ball out of the glove faster
Had a minor league manager in the Braves organization tell me One Hand. That was a few years ago, so I don't know if it reflects the philosophy of the organization or not.
Are we talking about camping under a fly ball in anticipation of a throw to 3B or home?
2017LHPscrewball posted:Are we talking about camping under a fly ball in anticipation of a throw to 3B or home?
I was
Great video. Showed it to son.
I'm interested in hearing folk's opinions on this. The eval above as well as the question may read differently to different people. I can only assume that we are not really talking about the catch mechanics (as in telling an 8 yo to catch a fly ball with two hands) but rather on the mechanics of the catch/transfer/throw. I could also see how the ball flight might impact the mechanics where in one case you are truly camped out and the second case being where you might actually have to catch the ball while moving towards the infield - based on the differences in footwork (set versus in motion) I would assume there might be differences in the catch/transfer/throw mechanics. My only other observation would be that the 2nd hand cannot be use in such a way that it detracts from proper positioning - for instance when camped out I think the ideal position is to have your left outside shoulder (RH throw) pointed towards your target as you line up the catch - in doing so you really have to leave your right hand back and bring the ball back with your glove such that I would call this a one handed catch.
Now on a high fly ball for the 3rd out - that second hand could come into the picture.
MTH, Here's a fun Ishiro Vid...pitched the 8th for Marlins vs Phillies, Oct 4 2015. And did pretty good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P75RiM-ax2s
One of my favorite players!!
Baseball Mom:
my son, a Mariners scouted Ichiro in Japan before he signed. He was a pitcher in HS.
During his years with the Mariners he requested that the grounds crew cut the grass in RF "short". This provided the opportunity to charge the ball and obtain the ball quicker for his trow to 2b, 3b, home. This is the "6th Tool" of a player. Ichiro would swing at a pitch out of the zone on purpose in order to have it thrown again.
Bob
Totally situational. Put yourself in the best position to make the appropriate play. With runners on, use the best route, footwork, transfer and hand position to secure the ball and make the most efficient transfer throw.
If you'll notice in the Ichiro video, any play that he has time to get around the ball, his throwing hand is engaged, fairly close to the glove. If a player has a routine catch with no chance of runners advancing, or to secure the third out, there is certainly nothing wrong with securing the catch with the second hand in contact with the glove. I have heard a variety of opinions on how necessary or desirable this is but I have never heard of a scout or recruiter having a problem with this.
When they are being paid to play baseball I think they can do what they want. IMO it never hurts to secure with two hands every chance you can but especially when runners will be tagging could be the difference between safe and out.
It stands to reason that because the ball traveling through the air is at a faster velocity than the ball once captured in the glove that the ideal outfield catch with men on base would be to allow the ball to travel as far as possible toward the transfer and release point of the throw.
Accordingly the best outfield throws typically involve a motion beginning with the body turned at 90 degrees to the selected target base and emanating from the back hip in a long powerful motion to the target base. This means ideally the outfielder will position their body to catch the ball with one hand at the waist with a fluid transfer and throw to get the runner out...
If anyone read all that silly stuff all I can say is... "Made you look"See emoji has perfect outfield form!!
MDBallDad posted:It stands to reason that because the ball traveling through the air is at a faster velocity than the ball once captured in the glove that the ideal outfield catch with men on base would be to allow the ball to travel as far as possible toward the transfer and release point of the throw.
Accordingly the best outfield throws typically involve a motion beginning with the body turned at 90 degrees to the selected target base and emanating from the back hip in a long powerful motion to the target base. This means ideally the outfielder will position their body to catch the ball with one hand at the waist with a fluid transfer and throw to get the runner out...
If anyone read all that silly stuff all I can say is... "Made you look"
See emoji has perfect outfield form!!
With the exception of catching the ball "at the waist", the rest actually sounds pretty good. I'm still perplexed how a two handed catch is preferable when having to make a throw.
jman99 posted:When they are being paid to play baseball I think they can do what they want. IMO it never hurts to secure with two hands every chance you can but especially when runners will be tagging could be the difference between safe and out.
+1. It never hurts to secure a routine fly ball with two hands especially if it pops out...the other hand is right there to catch it or tip it to the glove. The one handed "thing" amounts to be a preference thing in todays game, and I'm really looking forward to someone who scouts or evaluates high level talent to chime in and explain it. Personally, I love to see two hands everywhere on the baseball field with routine plays. I suspect there are a lot of people like me (old) who were taught two hands and absolutely cringe everytime they see MLB players catching with one hand. I do not see the benefit. So, somebody please explain it to me as this is a personal pet peeve of mine.
2017LHPscrewball posted:MDBallDad posted:It stands to reason that because the ball traveling through the air is at a faster velocity than the ball once captured in the glove that the ideal outfield catch with men on base would be to allow the ball to travel as far as possible toward the transfer and release point of the throw.
Accordingly the best outfield throws typically involve a motion beginning with the body turned at 90 degrees to the selected target base and emanating from the back hip in a long powerful motion to the target base. This means ideally the outfielder will position their body to catch the ball with one hand at the waist with a fluid transfer and throw to get the runner out...
If anyone read all that silly stuff all I can say is... "Made you look"
With the exception of catching the ball "at the waist", the rest actually sounds pretty good. I'm still perplexed how a two handed catch is preferable when having to make a throw.
It takes time to bring your hand up from your waist to the glove to get the ball out. If both hands are already on or near the glove this saves time on the throw.
"True Story" do remember Darrell Thomas Dodgers infielder and outfielder. He drove Tommy Lasorda crazy. When Darrel played CF he would keep his glove up for the fly ball then at the last minute drop his hands [like Willie] below the belt for the "basket catch".
When Tommy had a heart attack, the Dodgers banned Darrell from visiting at the hospital ward.
They did not Tommy upset>
Bob
To some extent the question is challenging. It is like "Should a catcher place their fist behind a glove when there is a runner that could steal or protect it behind the thigh?" There are high level outfielders who catch with one hand, there are high level outfielders who catch with two hands and there are high level outfielders who change their approach based on the specific situation. As far as the wisdom of one over the other I can speak to the mechanics and history of baseball.
Back in the day gloves were small and not the cavernous creations of today and so the need for catching the ball with two hands was absolute. ANY outfielder back in the day that did not use two hands was not considered a ball player. Today the gloves are huge and flexible and the leather is supple enough to keep the ball from spinning out of the glove so the ability to catch and secure a ball with todays equipment does not necessarily require two hands.
Then you get to the physics of making a catch and throwing the ball. The transfer between ball and glove needs to be made with as little possibility for error and the least time possible. A fast runner is traveling approximately 25 feet per second and so a .1 second delay in the transfer results in a 2.5 foot advantage to the runner all else considered equal. In reality however all else is not equal, the velocity of the throw, the accuracy of the throw can all be impacted by the body position, momentum toward home, fluidity (integration of the transfer with the throwing motion) of the transfer etc.
IMHO a scout at a showcase watching the outfield is looking more for velocity and accuracy in the throw than anything else (ie. 1 or 2 hands) because those are elements of the game that can be taught and communicated to a player after they are on the team or in the organization. What you cannot teach is Benedetti's 97 MPH strike to home from left. Don't misunderstand, they will look at shear speed they will look at path to the ball on line drives, they will look at stability and comfort in travel to the catch, they will look at the need to drift under the ball versus judging, they will look at reaction time the ability to read the ball but at the end of the day throw a laser and put it in the catchers or third baseman's mitt and you will have accomplished the goal of catching their eye. P.S. if you hit 3 dingers you will also catch their eye...
CaCO3Girl posted:2017LHPscrewball posted:MDBallDad posted:It stands to reason that because the ball traveling through the air is at a faster velocity than the ball once captured in the glove that the ideal outfield catch with men on base would be to allow the ball to travel as far as possible toward the transfer and release point of the throw.
Accordingly the best outfield throws typically involve a motion beginning with the body turned at 90 degrees to the selected target base and emanating from the back hip in a long powerful motion to the target base. This means ideally the outfielder will position their body to catch the ball with one hand at the waist with a fluid transfer and throw to get the runner out...
If anyone read all that silly stuff all I can say is... "Made you look"
With the exception of catching the ball "at the waist", the rest actually sounds pretty good. I'm still perplexed how a two handed catch is preferable when having to make a throw.
It takes time to bring your hand up from your waist to the glove to get the ball out. If both hands are already on or near the glove this saves time on the throw.
I'll go with what CABBAGEDAD says - totally situational. If I am expected to make a game saving throw to home, I am going to be much more worried about getting into an optimum throwing position (as I catch the ball) then I am getting into an ideal catching position (from which I later transition into a throwing position). I am not recommending that you leave your throwing hand in your back pocket, but I would not recommend that you end up squaring your shoulders to the target while catching (so you can get your throwing hand touching your glove). If you position yourself in a way that detracts from your throw, I would view that as a negative as the assumption of a college scout (most, if not all) is that a prospect is able to catch a fly ball (they don't grade you on how well you can camp out). What a scout wants to know is how effective is a player at delivering the ball once the catch is made which includes both arm strength as well as quickness of the throw (sort of like pop times - best have both solid arms and solid mechanics). If you have to take one extra step to turn your shoulders, you give the baserunner more time and decrease your effectiveness. Again, all my comments relate to a reasonably easy fly ball that requires a throw.
What I cannot comment on at a high level are the actual mechanics of how best to catch/transfer. It appears there is often some movement backwards with the glove hand to deliver the ball - sort of meet in the middle - to the throwing hand as opposed to the throwing hand reaching towards the glove. That is about all I can add but an outfielder should have repeatable mechanics for this type of play and practice regularly.
My comment related to standing under the ball, waiting for it to fall, so you can catch and make your throw.
IMHO a scout at a showcase watching the outfield is looking more for velocity and accuracy in the throw than anything else (ie. 1 or 2 hands) because those are elements of the game that can be taught and communicated to a player after they are on the team or in the organization. What you cannot teach is Benedetti's 97 MPH strike to home from left. Don't misunderstand, they will look at shear speed they will look at path to the ball on line drives, they will look at stability and comfort in travel to the catch, they will look at the need to drift under the ball versus judging, they will look at reaction time the ability to read the ball but at the end of the day throw a laser and put it in the catchers or third baseman's mitt and you will have accomplished the goal of catching their eye. P.S. if you hit 3 dingers you will also catch their eye...
I think this is an excellent answer to the OP
ive seen it taught as your catching with 1 hand and have the other hand up to make a quick transfer, speed, route, reaction time off bat, arm strength would all seem to be much more important to me though.
