Over use of young pitchers fueling Tommy John surgery

Verducci is a moron.  Do I have to read it?

It's probably from travel ball and to a lesser extent LL. My son has been seeing curve balls since he was 9 years old. After you get past the two or three kids on the team that can throw it past you and they are throwing some junk too the"junk baller" appears warming up. Nothing like seeing a 9-13 year old throwing 70% junk with varying degrees of success . And the bad thing is there are worse things than that . How about the kid who pitches the first game on Friday,eats up an inning or two Saturday so they can get the one seed (gotta have it),possibly has to come in the must win in bracket play on Sunday, and then pitches in the SHIP. And this happens before High school.

Sultan I agree.  In the article they talk about signing a 84/85mph kid and letting him grow into the volume.  This would "never" happen in the states.  My son is 89- 92 and is told he needs to throw harder to make any real money in the draft.  If early velocity is the cause then the MLB needs to look at themselves, travel ball just mirrors what they see at the highest levels.  Additionally teams have schools in Latin America where baseball is taught in the states your on your own.

I've been reading all of these "TJ" threads for about a week now.  There seems to be a lot of finger pointing and supposing...some of it based in fact and studies, some of based on anectdotal experience.  Since my son also pitches and works toward a future of playing at the next level (wherever that might be), I too want to do as much as possible to prevent any injury or overuse.

 

Having said all that, I'm no "Carnac" (young folks can Google it...).  What I do know is nobody has all the answers and we have to do our best to protect our players.  As parents/coaches, we are their best advocate for almost all things (baseball and life).  Although he hasn't commented on this posting I definitely agree with and respect J H's views on the subject.

 

In our first meeting three years ago, my son's pitching coach relayed his pearls of wisdom:

 

1) Your body is a machine.  Any excessive repetitive motion will eventually wear out the part you're using.
2) Sound mechanics will allow you to maximize your potential and minimize your risk of injury.
3) There are only so many bullets in your gun.  Some have more, some have less, but eventually everybody runs out.
4) You are a pitcher.  The odds are you will eventually experience some kind of throwing related injury.  My job is to make sure you're already in college or getting paid before that happens.

 

Our sons (or our players) chose this path, but they have no idea at the start what is in their best interest.  It's our job to set boundaries and make things clear to whomever needs to know.  I know some (not all) coaches may gristle at parents "telling them what they can and can't do with their players".  To them I will say this:  I make my position very clear before any season starts (HS, summer, scout, etc.).  If we agree, great and they won't hear another word from me for the remainder of the season.  If not, good luck with your team.

 

Okay, I'm off the soapbox now.  Sorry for rambling.

Until pitch counts and appearances are tracked from the time a pitcher first pitches no one is going to be able to provide a correct answer. My guess is it's all the pitching some kids do on travel teams (not because it's travel/because the coach and parents are ignorant) from ages 9-14 when they are growing the most and the most vulnerable to growth plate and associated tendon and muscle issues.

 

Travel isn't the problem. Travel just provides the avenue for abuse when combined with coaches and parents who aren't concerned with arm health. A kid can now be in a weekly pitching rotation for several months from 9u to 17u. When I was a kid we had LL. We pitched once a week for two and a half months. Typically only 11 and 12yo's pitched.

 

Blaming travel for arm problems would be like claiming it's silverware's fault people are fat.

All true probably.  So how do you dis-encourage parents from buying into the year-round baseball that is so prevalent and so often 'hyped' (including on this site) and almost surely adds a lot of pitches onto young arms at earlier and earlier ages?

Parents should educate themselves--this site is a great start--about the dangers of playing any sport year-round.  I'm not sure I'm following you on the "so often 'hyped' (including on this site)" line though.  Although I don't post often, I have viewed just about every message thread several times daily since I joined this site last year (yes, I probably need a 12-step support group).

 

While there are several organizations that tout their showcases and programs, I can't remember any of them stating players should play year-round.  Parents and older players need to manage their playing "workloads" and plan their own off season periods.  If that means they can't make specific showcases or fall leagues, then so be it.

 

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my son would not have garnered attention as early as he did without some of those showcases.  I would like to believe colleges and scouts would have found him eventually, but I know most of them started following him because they saw him in those events.

 

I'm not defending nor am I endorsing any specific event and I'm definitely NOT a proponent of year-round baseball (unless I'm watching it).  I'm simply saying these events have value for players looking to be considered at the next level.  Parents/players just need to decide which one offers the most benefit to them and adjust their pitching schedule to suit their needs. 

The word "hyped" was probably used too loosely.  I was referring to the advice we all so often give about joining travel team, travel team, travel team...that I think often gets translated into year-round baseball.

 

Gotta give your best asset a rest.

I don't think there are many of us out there that can honestly say we steadfastly monitored and regulated our son's pitches and rest.  I can count on one hand the number of times mine has thrown more than 100 pitches in a game.  I can also tell you I worry about the long-term effects of each and every one of those outings.  Was he conditioned for them?  I would like to think so.  Were those games important?  At the time, we (parents and coaches alike) sure thought so.  Did he get extended rest after each time?  Sure.  Still makes me nervous.

 

One more pearl of wisdom from the pitching coach:

 

- If you want to increase your pitching velocity:  STOP PITCHING.

 

Take 8-12 weeks off and get into a pitching-specific workout routine.  After two weeks, throwing again is fine (I happen to like long toss and the much-debated Jaeger program, but that's a personal preference), but ZERO pitching.  You'll come out the other end stronger.  We try to carve out 8-10 weeks once a year and another 6 weeks twice a year.

 

So far, so good......it's a marathon, not a sprint.  Only problem with baseball is you don't ever get to know where the finish line is until you're there and then...there you are.

I like your posts and I agree with you for the most part.

 

But I can tell you that our older son did each and every thing you wrote above…and then he felt the pain.  And after that, 2 weeks ago today, he had the surgery.

 

He felt he was in the best condition of his life (age 27), never ever had any arm injury whatsoever and as you outlined…did all of that stuff above.  He's one of the numbers in the article linked above…part of a statistic now for MLB pitchers in 2014.

Why did it happen?  We simply don't know.  Nor did his team doctor nor the one who did the  surgery.  They told him that every single pitch you throw a pitcher comes within 10% of this injury.  Stands to reason that as time goes on and you throw 1 more pitch, your risk increases until 'the number comes up.'  But who knows?  I don't.

That's interesting. But it also provides a good reason that there is concern with the excess that has become of youth sports. All sports, with many people to blame. Fatigue leads to overuse injuries which lead to "the big one." So many "major" injuries like UCL rupture or ACL rupture are the result of more minor injuries, whether we knew it at the time or not... And so it makes sense that the more you're out there, the greater the chance you will suffer that big injury.

JBB:  I feel for you and your son, but I also know that what got him to the show will be the same thing that gets him back (talent, drive and an unbelievable work ethic).  He got a taste and I'd be willing to bet there's no greater motivation to get back.  I keep hearing the ol' pitching coach's words over and over again in my head.  The wisdom he laid down with those four things in our initial meeting was never more true.

 

Pitchers face that risk every outing, but most can't imagine doing anything else.  It's been said over and over in this post.  Make every attempt to minimize damage and hope for the best.

 

 

Hope "justbaseball" doesn't mind.  I did a little research on his son.  Erik was an outstanding pitching prospect in High School. He played in 4 PG events.  National Showcase, Aflac All American Classic, and two tournaments with his Travel team NorCal.  I would have to go to the office to see how many innings he pitched in those two tournaments.  I know he was not abused and NorCal has had many MLB players and prospects over the years.

 

Eric pitched two innings at the National Showcase.  Not many pitches because there were no base runners.  He threw one short inning in the Aflac Game. Total 3 short innings!

 

i have no idea how much he threw in high school.

 

At Stanford in 4 years he threw 227 innings. In his first two full seasons in professional baseball he threw 267 innings. His total innings pitched in the minor leagues is 556 innings. That does not count the innings he has thrown in the Big Leagues. Also doesn't count any off season or winter ball.

 

If someone uses him in a study, he will be listed as someone that attended showcases and played travel baseball.  Maybe the reason he is having TJ surgery is those three short innings he threw for us.

 

This whole topic is getting the best of me.  When I find time I am going to check every MLB player who has ever had Tj surgery.  I am going to find out if they ever attended a PG event.  Wonder what people would think if I find out that the vast majority of those MLB pitchers that have had TJ surgery did not attend showcases or play travel baseball?

 

Any time a pitcher takes the mound he is taking a risk.  Yes, that includes showcases, travel baseball, high school baseball, legion baseball, college baseball, sand lot baseball, pro baseball, or any other baseball.  I find it very strange that while looking for something to blame, our name gets mentioned at times.  Heck, I have seen kids blow their arm in high school baseball.  I will always remember seeing the Legion pitcher laying on the mound in pain after being used to death in order to win the legion tournament. Yes, he ended up having TJ.  Some of the college pitch counts are insane.

 

Yet when I read these articles, there never seems to be any mention of all those cases. Even here on this site, we read the stories, i.e. 191 pitches.  I suppose if that kid needs surgery and they find out he went to a showcase and played travel ball, that will be the reason he got injured.

 

I'm willing to bet that the truth in most cases is exactly what "justbaseball" stated.  We just don't know for sure!  BTW, I too have a son that had TJ surgery.  I actually think I know what caused it.  However the doctor that did the surgery, told him it was something  that happened over a period of time.  He never went to a showcase and he never played travel ball.  He did pitch a lot in professional baseball. 11 or 12 years!

 

in the past few years we have seen a very large number of the top Dominican prospects at our events.  I have to respectfully disagree with TPM.  They are flocking over here with Dominican teams and players.  We are very well known to the consulate there.  We are working with some former executives from the MLB office to actually do some events in the Dominican.  The part I disagree with TPM on is we have seen a large number of young Dominican pitchers throwing in the mid 90s at 16 years old.  

 

I did find it interesting that so few Dominicans have had TJ surgery.  Of course, they only referenced MLB pitchers in the article I read.  It seems like Japanese pitchers also have less cases of TJ.  Got me to thinking, maybe it is some kind of genetic issue.  It seems like African American players also have less cases. Could it be so simple that some people have smaller or weaker ligaments than others?

 

Anyway, for the record, I do believe youth baseball in some cases is a problem. I'm talking about the very young kids, 8-12 year olds.  I get reminded of this every year while watching the Little League World Series on television. And they monitor it better than most at that age.  

 

Also, I am all for kids playing other sports. All for pitchers taking time off.  At the same time I see nothing wrong if someone wants to concentrate on one sport.  I can say that we know a lot of current MLB players who only played baseball year around.  We also know many that were two or even three sport guys in high school. However, if concentrating on baseball is the problem, then most every college and pro player is in danger.

PG,
That is interesting about the 16 year old pitchers from the DR.  Why do you suppose they are throwing so hard at 16? 
I know that there you can get just about anything you want to make you stronger.  The amount of dominican players caught in milb on steroids is alarming.  Its just another one of those things that happens with pitchers.

I am not sure why you are taking this so personally.  All of this is accumulative.   Its the parents responsibilty to make good choices. 
The same year Erik Davis pitched in the PG National so did son.  If you go back and read his report you will see that he pitched a few days before he pitched in the National.   That was over 10 years ago. It was  very unusual and we allowed it.   Although he has never had TJS he has had surgery to move his ulnar nerve.  Stuff happens. He is a pitcher.  No one is to blame.

You hit the nail on the head with the LLWS.  In my opinion that says it all about how youth baseball is at fault with future injuries.
My concern is not the MLB players having TJS but the players having TJS not in MLB.  Do people really care about them?
Anyway I hope that you get my point.  I cant speak for the writers but I doubt there are any folks here who blame PG for players having TJS.

The reason I take it personal is because our name is actually mentioned in one of the articles. In fact it is the only organization called out by name. Makes you wonder if they even know there are many organizations that run showcases and tournaments.

 

Also, when a Major League manager speaks out people tend to listen.  Guess Joe doesn't know that we have had the sons of many MLB managers at our events.  None of them are talking about this being a problem because they are involved in it. Also had the sons of several scouting directors and many other scouts.  Even had the sons of a couple GMs.  And a very large number of former Major Leaguers sons. Yet one manager, the one that has experienced the fewest cases of TJ surgery is the one talking. All because for only the second time he has a pitcher that is having TJ surgery.  No mention that that pitcher never attended a showcase and did not play travel baseball.

I agree that we just don't know. 

 

Personally I am a huge fan of multiple sports, giving kids a break (not only physical but mental) and not over pitching them, particularly at a young age. 

 

One other comment related to conditioning/"number of bullets". I am a huge fan of Jaeger however he contends that many injuries are related to lack of conditioning, which is probably true, however he is a proponent of year round conditioning (throwing) using the logic that you don't stop conditioning for other sports, but I would argue that you cross condition for other sports, sprinters for example have a very set routine on what they work on in and out of season. They move from heavy lifting, to explosive, then to run conditioning and it would make sense to have the same approach with pitchers. 

 

Great stuff discussed here.  My son is 13.  What are some exercises he can do now to strengthen his arm for pitching or playing center field?