Overthinking

Great post and interested in others thoughts.  I can't help much, but I have a somewhat related anecdote that highlights the importance of nipping it in the bud.

A friend of my son's who is now a senior is HS.  Very nice ball player, dad was very good, still plays at 50.  When he makes a bad play, he pouts really bad, still to this day at 18 yo.  His varsity playing time has been sparse, even though he's got talent.  Made a bad play the other day and went into a shell, and dad says, "that's why he hasn't played, he just pouts when he F's up."

He hasn't outgrown that reaction, so it's good that you address your son's reaction now, before it becomes a bigger problem.

Thanks - to be clear, his coaches know that he presses at times, but I don't think I've ever seen him pout on a ball field.  He's the sunny vocal leader-type (helps he's a catcher), but inside he's churning.  

Try to get him to focus on the process rather than the results. On the pitches that weren’t barreled up, did he swing at the right pitches? Did he have good takes on pitches he didn’t swing at?

It sounds like he did a lot of things well over the weekend. Don’t forget to acknowledge those things too.

PlayWithEffort posted:

Try to get him to focus on the process rather than the results. On the pitches that weren’t barreled up, did he swing at the right pitches? Did he have good takes on pitches he didn’t swing at?

It sounds like he did a lot of things well over the weekend. Don’t forget to acknowledge those things too.

I did and he allowed that he had some really nice moments in situational hitting - working a walk w/bases loaded; getting the ground ball they needed to tie a game v high 80s stuff; etc.  One of his barrels was the hit that came around to score the winning run in a walkoff that won us the co-championship.  

As for process that's a great idea.  He knows he has a tendency to take too many pitches, and that's gets him in a whole with guys who have strong secondary stuff.  

OskiSD posted:

PlayWithEffort posted:

Try to get him to focus on the process rather than the results. On the pitches that weren’t barreled up, did he swing at the right pitches? Did he have good takes on pitches he didn’t swing at?

It sounds like he did a lot of things well over the weekend. Don’t forget to acknowledge those things too.

I did and he allowed that he had some really nice moments in situational hitting - working a walk w/bases loaded; getting the ground ball they needed to tie a game v high 80s stuff; etc.  One of his barrels was the hit that came around to score the winning run in a walkoff that won us the co-championship.  

As for process that's a great idea.  He knows he has a tendency to take too many pitches, and that's gets him in a whole with guys who have strong secondary stuff.  

That last sentence is a great point.  My son struck out twice in over 100 plate appearances his senior year in HS....and may have walked 5 or 6 times (a few intentionally).  He swung at everything.....some good, some not so good, but fortunately he was good enough that he usually put it in play somewhere (hit .475).  When he got to college his freshman year, he got a few AB's as a DH....I told him the same thing you just said.....he was waiting on the perfect pitch....and oftentimes got himself into an 0-2 hole before he even took a swing.   Last year he got about 50 AB's after not having hit at all his sophomore season.  Looked better...and took a lot fewer strikes....though still too many in my book.  This summer, he really came around playing summer league.  Hit .400 and I would guess at least half of his hits were on the first pitch.  Very few K's.  I think he's finally figured out that the more  times you swing, the more chance you'll hit the ball.....lol.  I don't know anyone who's gotten a hit without swinging      I wouldn't be too worried about a '22.  If he's a good catcher, he'll get noticed....and if the hitting is solid, he'll get a chance to play somewhere.  

Your son is a typical highly driven player who is self driven. His pressure comes from within and his expectations not others drive him. These players expect to achieve at the level of expectation they put on themselves. They are not motivated by anything other than their expectations not others. If they play very well it is almost a relief that they achieved what they demanded of themselves. When they don't they look for reasons immediately and tend to over think the situation. 

What you have to be careful of is this mentality can become a burden. Almost like a back pack that constantly gets heavier and heavier. They can become their own worst enemy and fight themselves. I would talk to him about losing himself in the game. Focus on just competing and doing whatever you have to do to just win the game. Don't get consumed with your personal performance and not living up to "Your" expectations. Just win this pitch. 

I will be honest with you I have told guys before "Just don't give a _____." "Just go play and whatever happens happens. Try to just have some fun and quit trying to be perfect." These players are usually very very good players who are driven to be Great. And that drive can be a very good thing and it can also eat them up. Relax and play the game. Don't get in your way of being great. Get out of the way and just play the game.  

Yes, yes, no approach. Do not try to recognize hittable pitches but swing at every pitch until you see it is not hittable. Also don't guess too much. Some like to sit on pitches but I think better to hit anything fat, I.e. the whole strike zone minus the outer two inches at every edge (give those to the pitcher).

This means swing at every pitch assuming it is a strike unless you see it is a ball or just on edge.

This approach doesn't work for everyone but it eliminates thinking. Occasionally chasing a bad pitch is ok but don't overdo it.

I learned a great little trick by Carlos santana: imagine a little window (maybe 3/4 of the strike zone size) halfway between home and release (like 27 feet from home or so) and about 1.5-2 feet higher than the actual zone (to account for the downward path). You can use an oval to take out the corners a little.

Then you swing at every pitch unless it misses that window, if it spins take it unless it is in the upper half to third of the window (I.e. a hanger).

Pretty simple but santana has an elite walk rate so it works for him.

This approach can bite you on change ups and split fingers but then again which prep pitcher has a good change...

Get him reading Stoiscism, start with "The Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph"

Dominik85 posted:

Yes, yes, no approach. Do not try to recognize hittable pitches but swing at every pitch until you see it is not hittable. Also don't guess too much. Some like to sit on pitches but I think better to hit anything fat, I.e. the whole strike zone minus the outer two inches at every edge (give those to the pitcher).

This means swing at every pitch assuming it is a strike unless you see it is a ball or just on edge.

This approach doesn't work for everyone but it eliminates thinking. Occasionally chasing a bad pitch is ok but don't overdo it.

 

I learned a great little trick by Carlos santana: imagine a little window (maybe 3/4 of the strike zone size) halfway between home and release (like 27 feet from home or so) and about 1.5-2 feet higher than the actual zone (to account for the downward path). You can use an oval to take out the corners a little.

Then you swing at every pitch unless it misses that window, if it spins take it unless it is in the upper half to third of the window (I.e. a hanger).

 

Pretty simple but santana has an elite walk rate so it works for him.

This approach can bite you on change ups and split fingers but then again which prep pitcher has a good change...

This is basically '22's approach when he's going good.  Thanks for connecting this with Santana as I think my son will value his opinion more highly than mine.

Coach_May posted:

Your son is a typical highly driven player who is self driven. His pressure comes from within and his expectations not others drive him. These players expect to achieve at the level of expectation they put on themselves. They are not motivated by anything other than their expectations not others. If they play very well it is almost a relief that they achieved what they demanded of themselves. When they don't they look for reasons immediately and tend to over think the situation. 

What you have to be careful of is this mentality can become a burden. Almost like a back pack that constantly gets heavier and heavier. They can become their own worst enemy and fight themselves. I would talk to him about losing himself in the game. Focus on just competing and doing whatever you have to do to just win the game. Don't get consumed with your personal performance and not living up to "Your" expectations. Just win this pitch. 

I will be honest with you I have told guys before "Just don't give a _____." "Just go play and whatever happens happens. Try to just have some fun and quit trying to be perfect." These players are usually very very good players who are driven to be Great. And that drive can be a very good thing and it can also eat them up. Relax and play the game. Don't get in your way of being great. Get out of the way and just play the game.  

 

That is my son in a nutshell - very self-motivated, the kind of kid who finds out how long others are working out and then does an extra 15 mins.  Plays with a lot of joy and energy, and my only real concern is ensuring that he retain that relationship with the game.  

I carried a heavy backpack when I played, which is one reason I gravitated to football in high school.  Good news is '22 woke up ready to go and went to an optional practice last night to get cage work in.  Came back from practice with a lot of pep in his step.  

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Get him reading Stoiscism, start with "The Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph"

University professor here (though not of philosophy) and yes, this has crossed my mind.  Thanks for the reminder.

Coach_May posted:

...I will be honest with you I have told guys before "Just don't give a _____." "Just go play and whatever happens happens. Try to just have some fun and quit trying to be perfect." These players are usually very very good players who are driven to be Great. And that drive can be a very good thing and it can also eat them up. Relax and play the game. Don't get in your way of being great. Get out of the way and just play the game.  

 

This is the best advice. If my son gets in a slump, and he starts pressing to make something happen, this is the advice he gives himself, and it usually corrects what is ailing him. Usually, it's focus. There is a ton of pressure on these guys, whether internal or external. If they can let go and just be in the moment, enjoy the game as it is happening, they will have a better chance at success.

GaryMe posted:

Coach_May posted:

...I will be honest with you I have told guys before "Just don't give a _____." "Just go play and whatever happens happens. Try to just have some fun and quit trying to be perfect." These players are usually very very good players who are driven to be Great. And that drive can be a very good thing and it can also eat them up. Relax and play the game. Don't get in your way of being great. Get out of the way and just play the game.  

 

This is the best advice. If my son gets in a slump, and he starts pressing to make something happen, this is the advice he gives himself, and it usually corrects what is ailing him. Usually, it's focus. There is a ton of pressure on these guys, whether internal or external. If they can let go and just be in the moment, enjoy the game as it is happening, they will have a better chance at success.

Day of my son's game I text only these 6 words:  "Good Luck, Play Hard, Have Fun".  I don't say anything or call, been doing this for about 10 years, now for me it's like a superstitious thing.

OskiSD posted:

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Get him reading Stoiscism, start with "The Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph"

University professor here (though not of philosophy) and yes, this has crossed my mind.  Thanks for the reminder.

The mental coach at Clemson really helped my son with compartmentalizing on the mound and he bought in 100%.

He could try Tug McGraw's Frozen Snowball Theory (similar to Coach May's approach)

https://www.si.com/vault/1976/...le-things-mean-a-lot

"Were he not a man of philosophical bent, Tug McGraw, the Phillies' relief pitcher, might have had cause for alarm last Thursday evening when he confronted Cincinnati slugger Tony Perez with the bases loaded in the 12th inning of a 4-4 game. As it was, McGraw simply invoked the Frozen Snowball Theory before tossing up a pitch that Perez lofted mildly to center field to end the perilous inning and open the way for Philadelphia's 5-4 victory in the 13th.

The Frozen Snowball Theory? Dr. McGraw explicates, "Science has proved that in 50 billion years the sun will burn itself out and the earth will become nothing more than a frozen snowball floating through space. When that day comes, who, I ask you, will give a damn what happened to me and Perez?"

Trust In Him posted:

GaryMe posted:

Coach_May posted:

...I will be honest with you I have told guys before "Just don't give a _____." "Just go play and whatever happens happens. Try to just have some fun and quit trying to be perfect." These players are usually very very good players who are driven to be Great. And that drive can be a very good thing and it can also eat them up. Relax and play the game. Don't get in your way of being great. Get out of the way and just play the game.  

 

This is the best advice. If my son gets in a slump, and he starts pressing to make something happen, this is the advice he gives himself, and it usually corrects what is ailing him. Usually, it's focus. There is a ton of pressure on these guys, whether internal or external. If they can let go and just be in the moment, enjoy the game as it is happening, they will have a better chance at success.

Day of my son's game I text only these 6 words:  "Good Luck, Play Hard, Have Fun".  I don't say anything or call, been doing this for about 10 years, now for me it's like a superstitious thing.

I always say to my son "do what you do."  Knowing my son though, he probable doesn't even know I say it every time.  Once he's at school, and I have to text it, maybe he'll then realize. Ha!

You did your job, he now has the reins, you just need to be an ear when he needs to rant, an advisor when he asks for advice and more importantly his personal uber driver when needs a ride...your reward will be the fond memories you'll have on the road together.

Do you desire to "slow" the game? Turn off the cell phone before you enter the baseball park. Then study the field, the fence, the wind and watch the opposing pitcher "warm up" in the bullpen. When you are in the batter's box, remove all thoughts and look for the red seams.

Also pray for a "hanging" curve.

Bob

I always tell mine, who is a catcher also remember this game gets harder the longer you play because the pool gets shallow and the talent gets better ecspecialy at elite tournaments and showcases

Great advice - thanks to all. Here's the kid in his last at-bat

Nice pic!

Maybe oversimplified as compared to some other great advice here but... mine would be an occasional reminder...

"Don't forget why you play"

cabbagedad posted:

Nice pic!

Maybe oversimplified as compared to some other great advice here but... mine would be an occasional reminder...

"Don't forget why you play"

So true - the perfect antidote to the age of PG rankings and showcases.  My favorite baseball quote is Willie Stargell, who said (I'm paraphrasing), "You gotta have fun out here.  The umpire says 'Play Ball,' not 'Work Ball.'"  

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Get him reading Stoiscism, start with "The Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph"

This comment made me smile. My husband JUST bought this book for our son. Our son is an overthinker who suffers from anxiety and we are always trying to give him tools to help him relax and enjoy his life. His HS hitting coach(a former MLBer) has told him to work, work, work as much as he wants during practice and on his own, but come game time, he only has one job...let muscle memory take over and find a ball he can drive. Keep it simple! PS I love your avatar, OP. Our boys were born in Berkeley and the then Cal coach(now Stanford) and his wife were in our birthing class. I've thought about having our son reach out to him with that little quirky "it's a small world" connection. You never know LOL

Mom2acendeuce posted:

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Get him reading Stoiscism, start with "The Obstacle is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph"

This comment made me smile. My husband JUST bought this book for our son. Our son is an overthinker who suffers from anxiety and we are always trying to give him tools to help him relax and enjoy his life. His HS hitting coach(a former MLBer) has told him to work, work, work as much as he wants during practice and on his own, but come game time, he only has one job...let muscle memory take over and find a ball he can drive. Keep it simple! PS I love your avatar, OP. Our boys were born in Berkeley and the then Cal coach(now Stanford) and his wife were in our birthing class. I've thought about having our son reach out to him with that little quirky "it's a small world" connection. You never know LOL

 

He should reach out! Can't hurt...Go Bears!