Your thoughts?
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Needs to be fired, at least from a business standpoint. Its now come out he said this in 2008:
"Fidel Castro," he said. "He's a bull---- dictator and everybody's against him, and he still survives, has power. Still has a country behind him. Everywhere he goes they roll out the red carpet. I don't admire his philosophy. I admire him."
The entire Latin-American population down there may never buy a ticket now.
"Fidel Castro," he said. "He's a bull---- dictator and everybody's against him, and he still survives, has power. Still has a country behind him. Everywhere he goes they roll out the red carpet. I don't admire his philosophy. I admire him."
The entire Latin-American population down there may never buy a ticket now.
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Where ya' headed Oz?
And isn't it too warm to be wearing such a heavy coat?
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Where ya' headed Oz?
And isn't it too warm to be wearing such a heavy coat?
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And to think I thought it would be 10-15 games before he shot his mouth off about something... 
I don't agree with what he said, but do you really suspend and/or fire a guy because he said something you don't agree with? 
"Ozzy being Ozzy" is another way of saying that it is his character to do what he does, that is, to pop off and say stupid things. I have no idea what I would do as owner because I would not have hired him in the first place. Same with Zambrano when he comes uncorked.
I am a million miles from being an MLB player, but I would have a hard time respecting him despite his baseball knowledge.
I am a million miles from being an MLB player, but I would have a hard time respecting him despite his baseball knowledge.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
I don't agree with what he said, but do you really suspend and/or fire a guy because he said something you don't agree with?
Not because you don't agree per se, but because his comments offended and completely alienated the core gourp of fans you're marketing to. They just built a multi-million dollar latin-american themed stadium for God's sake. And then he says he respects a guy who basically is viewed as Hitler to those who have fled Cuba.
Just amazingly stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
I don't agree with what he said, but do you really suspend and/or fire a guy because he said something you don't agree with?
In general I agree with you as freedom of speech and thought is becoming a rare commodity in this age of political correctness.
Having said that, Castro is considered by many in the Cuban community to be the equivalent of Hitler. So just imagine if a business owner that was trying to attract Jews, had a manager say he admired Hitler.
Down here in South Florida they have always been perplexed why the baseball loving Cuban community has not been a bigger part of the fan base. They decided to build a stadium right in the heart of Little Havana where if you do not speak Spanish, you have trouble getting along. So it stands to reason that this could cause a major financial hit along with a public relations nightmare.
I have just heard he has been suspended for 5 games by the Marlins, but I am not sure it will be enough because many Castro hating Cubans will never set foot inside the ballpark as long as he is the manager.
It's not necessarily because the owner disagrees with it, though he has that right.
Suppose you just spent hundreds of millions of dollars building a new stadium and creating a new kind of ballpark experience and signing a new team.
And suppose everything you did was part of a long-term strategy to win over a particular constituency.
And suppose one employee's public comments threatened to bring that whole strategy crashing down around your head.
What options would you consider in order to save your business strategy?
Suppose you just spent hundreds of millions of dollars building a new stadium and creating a new kind of ballpark experience and signing a new team.
And suppose everything you did was part of a long-term strategy to win over a particular constituency.
And suppose one employee's public comments threatened to bring that whole strategy crashing down around your head.
What options would you consider in order to save your business strategy?
I don't know all the details but I wonder if the Reporter had some responsibility to say, "wait a minute Ozzy, do you really mean that? Do you know what kind of a fire storm those comments will cause?" Something tells me the reporter couldn't wait to get the story to press to make a name for himself. I know Ozzy took full responsibility, what else could he do? But I doubt Ozzy will ever trust a reporter like that again. My guess is Ozzy admires Castro's tenacity in the face of adversity, the likes of which he will need to weather this storm.
quote:But I doubt Ozzy will ever trust a reporter like that again.
Surprised it took him this long to figure that out. Equally surprising to me would be if this is really a shock to the Marlin ownership...Ozzy's done stuff like this throughout his career in management. They had to expect it...sort of comes with the territory with him.
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Yup!
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Yup!
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Well said Swampboy. I agree 100%.
Rule #1 in business, the customer is always right.
Rule #1 in business, the customer is always right.
Should be titled Ozzy being Stupid.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. You would think that he would have known that almost all Cuban Americans, especially the ones in Miami, absolutely hate Fidel Castro. That would be like going to Jerusalem and talking about how great a guy Hitler was.
Dumb beyond belief.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. You would think that he would have known that almost all Cuban Americans, especially the ones in Miami, absolutely hate Fidel Castro. That would be like going to Jerusalem and talking about how great a guy Hitler was.
Dumb beyond belief.
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I'm itching for another sequel...
"You're dumb!"...
..."And you're dumber!"
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- "Dumb beyond belief."
I'm itching for another sequel...
"You're dumb!"...
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quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
."Dumb beyond belief."
I'm itching for another sequel...
"You're dumb!"...
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Ozzy Guillen and Lenny Dykstra would make a great pairing.
quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
I don't know all the details but I wonder if the Reporter had some responsibility to say, "wait a minute Ozzy, do you really mean that? Do you know what kind of a fire storm those comments will cause?" Something tells me the reporter couldn't wait to get the story to press to make a name for himself. I know Ozzy took full responsibility, what else could he do? But I doubt Ozzy will ever trust a reporter like that again. My guess is Ozzy admires Castro's tenacity in the face of adversity, the likes of which he will need to weather this storm.
Blaming the reporter...that's a good one! Why should anybody be responsible for what they say or do?
quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
Something tells me the reporter couldn't wait to get the story to press to make a name for himself.
As would I.
Having lived in South Florida my entire life, I can tell you that nothing gets the populace more riled up than the mention of Castro.
Looking at history down here, you are going to see loud complaints and not much else. That's just how we are. In a week we will be on to the next thing.
This is probably the most front-running city in existence. If the Marlins win, nobody will care what Ozzy says.
Looking at history down here, you are going to see loud complaints and not much else. That's just how we are. In a week we will be on to the next thing.
This is probably the most front-running city in existence. If the Marlins win, nobody will care what Ozzy says.
Easy....You fire him.
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"Is slinky!"......"No is not! This is slinky!"
"Ho-kay, is slinky."......"Right. Next?"
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- "In a week we will be on to the next thing."
"Is slinky!"...
"Ho-kay, is slinky."...
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quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
I don't know all the details but I wonder if the Reporter had some responsibility to say, "wait a minute Ozzy, do you really mean that? Do you know what kind of a fire storm those comments will cause?" Something tells me the reporter couldn't wait to get the story to press to make a name for himself. I know Ozzy took full responsibility, what else could he do? But I doubt Ozzy will ever trust a reporter like that again. My guess is Ozzy admires Castro's tenacity in the face of adversity, the likes of which he will need to weather this storm.
I am sure some people admire Hitlers leadership and speech making abilities, yet saying you admire him in public is not going to win you any favors.
Ozzie's problem is not reporters because they can twist and frame stories any way they want, and do it all the time. The reason Ozzie is always in trouble compared with other managers is because he has foot in mouth disease. If he learned just to keep his mouth shut and talk baseball without going off on a rant, he would be in much less hot water.
quote:Originally posted by Rob T:
Having lived in South Florida my entire life, I can tell you that nothing gets the populace more riled up than the mention of Castro.
Looking at history down here, you are going to see loud complaints and not much else. That's just how we are. In a week we will be on to the next thing.
This is probably the most front-running city in existence. If the Marlins win, nobody will care what Ozzy says.
I tend to disagree. You admit on the one hand Cubans get riled up over any person who is pro-Castro, which I agree with. However the Cuban community has a very long memory, and all sorts of entertainers/celebrities have been shunned whenever they attempt to come to S.Fl. even if what they said or did happened years ago. I would liken it to Jane Fonda and veterans groups. She will always be Hanoi Jane, and they will never forget until she dies.
Now if he convinces them it was a misunderstanding combined with the Marlins winning then he might stand a chance. However many other anti-communist people in S.Fl., including his native Venezuelans do not like him for his support of Hugo Chavez.
Given his history, I doubt he will be able to keep his mouth shut or his temper under control long enough to try and weather the storm.
It's amazing the wrongs that winning makes some forget. Not all people but many. Not right, but true. If he makes it long enough to host world series games the stadium will be full. If he wins he will get a parade.
Maybe I'm wrong they just fired Petrino.
quote:Originally posted by Vector:quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
I don't know all the details but I wonder if the Reporter had some responsibility to say, "wait a minute Ozzy, do you really mean that? Do you know what kind of a fire storm those comments will cause?" Something tells me the reporter couldn't wait to get the story to press to make a name for himself. I know Ozzy took full responsibility, what else could he do? But I doubt Ozzy will ever trust a reporter like that again. My guess is Ozzy admires Castro's tenacity in the face of adversity, the likes of which he will need to weather this storm.
I am sure some people admire Hitlers leadership and speech making abilities, yet saying you admire him in public is not going to win you any favors.
Ozzie's problem is not reporters because they can twist and frame stories any way they want, and do it all the time. The reason Ozzie is always in trouble compared with other managers is because he has foot in mouth disease. If he learned just to keep his mouth shut and talk baseball without going off on a rant, he would be in much less hot water.quote:Originally posted by Rob T:
Having lived in South Florida my entire life, I can tell you that nothing gets the populace more riled up than the mention of Castro.
Looking at history down here, you are going to see loud complaints and not much else. That's just how we are. In a week we will be on to the next thing.
This is probably the most front-running city in existence. If the Marlins win, nobody will care what Ozzy says.
I tend to disagree. You admit on the one hand Cubans get riled up over any person who is pro-Castro, which I agree with. However the Cuban community has a very long memory, and all sorts of entertainers/celebrities have been shunned whenever they attempt to come to S.Fl. even if what they said or did happened years ago. I would liken it to Jane Fonda and veterans groups. She will always be Hanoi Jane, and they will never forget until she dies.
Now if he convinces them it was a misunderstanding combined with the Marlins winning then he might stand a chance. However many other anti-communist people in S.Fl., including his native Venezuelans do not like him for his support of Hugo Chavez.
Given his history, I doubt he will be able to keep his mouth shut or his temper under control long enough to try and weather the storm.
That was pretty good post. I doubt that anyone not living here would understand about the cuban community and their issues. They are fighting among themselves at this moment and not united on this issue. The way I see it, many people are very disturbed over lots of stuff the Marlins have done or not done in the community and this just adds fuel to the fire.
Sad situation.
Ozzie is a moron. Anyone who cannot see that is blind. But, much like talent outweighing bad character, Ozzie keeps on getting a job. I wouldn't hire him as I don't think the goods outweigh the bads.
However, I do not think he should be suspended for these comments. They are opinions. Or misstatements. Or misinterpretations. Or mistranslations. Whatever. They have nothing to do with baseball.
So why is a reporter even asking him about Castro? I believe many in the media today, especially sports reporters, want to create news. They want to be a part of the story. So they're going to ask these athletes dumb questions until the athlete says something stupid.
Bobby Valentine finally said something smart today. He was asked his opinion on the Ozzie Guillen situation (again, stupid question)...his response was "no comment."
I've told my boys if they ever get to play at a level where they actually get interviewed, they should be the most boring interviews ever. Then they won't be in trouble like this.
However, I do not think he should be suspended for these comments. They are opinions. Or misstatements. Or misinterpretations. Or mistranslations. Whatever. They have nothing to do with baseball.
So why is a reporter even asking him about Castro? I believe many in the media today, especially sports reporters, want to create news. They want to be a part of the story. So they're going to ask these athletes dumb questions until the athlete says something stupid.
Bobby Valentine finally said something smart today. He was asked his opinion on the Ozzie Guillen situation (again, stupid question)...his response was "no comment."
I've told my boys if they ever get to play at a level where they actually get interviewed, they should be the most boring interviews ever. Then they won't be in trouble like this.
This guy is an embarrassment to all latin americans and has once again embarrassed and set back latinos in baseball. You are given a chance to reach the top of your profession and what do you do with it.....makes people think twice for the next latin guy they would hire. I cringe when i see that clown on TV.
quote:Originally posted by Vector:
I am sure some people admire Hitlers leadership and speech making abilities, yet saying you admire him in public is not going to win you any favors.
In 1995, I heard someone mentioned that they admired Hitler's motivational abilities.
Obviously, that statement sticks out to me, because at that time, I didn't know how to say to them what needed to be said so they understood the wrong choice of words, so I will say it here:
Don't confuse respect with admiration. I can, at some level, respect those I hate.
I was originally outraged by Ozzy's comments but after watching his press conference yesterday and the difficulty he had with the English language it at least opened my mind to the chance that he was at some level misunderstood. That combined with his humility gave me reason to question the motives of the reporter. I look forward to the action he will take to mend fences, (a phrase he could not understand given the language barrier) rather than "just use words to apologize".
A lot can be told about a person’s character when with great humility they acknowledge their wrong doing, whether it’s a “cheap shot”, outraged pitcher, first base coach or even someone who uses foul language in the extreme. I say consequences should be productive and tempered with grace in the light of humility. We are most like our creator when we humbly forgive others.
A lot can be told about a person’s character when with great humility they acknowledge their wrong doing, whether it’s a “cheap shot”, outraged pitcher, first base coach or even someone who uses foul language in the extreme. I say consequences should be productive and tempered with grace in the light of humility. We are most like our creator when we humbly forgive others.
wasnt this comment made more than 2 years ago?
quote:Originally posted by NoReplay:
wasnt this comment made more than 2 years ago?
No. He's referred to Castro in the past, but this was new.
Nothing says we hate oppression like punishing someone for their opinion.
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And nothing says "Nos oponemos" like sitting at home and not buying tickets to the game.
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And nothing says "Nos oponemos" like sitting at home and not buying tickets to the game.
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Ozzy needs to be oppressed.
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Here are Ozzie's comments from 2008 in context.
From the article...
"What do you make of Ozzie's comments?"......"He's a fan of Fidel...and the folks in his new neighborhood don't like that!"
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Here are Ozzie's comments from 2008 in context.
From the article...
- Let me take you back to September 2008.
I interviewed Ozzie, then the White Sox’ manager, for a back-page Q & A in the national magazine Men’s Journal.
I asked him questions such as “What’s the best advice you ever received?’’ (“Be youself.’’) and “What’s your nickname?’’ (“Paio.’’) and “Do you ever wish you were somebody else?’’ (“Yes, Ron Jeremy. No, no — a bullfighter, Morenito de Maracay.’’
And I asked him this: “Who’s the toughest man you know?’’
His response, which took me by surprise: “Fidel Castro.’’
Why?
“He’s a bull---- dictator and everybody’s against him, and he still survives, has power. Still has a country behind him,’’ Ozzie replied. “Everywhere he goes, they roll out the red carpet. I don’t admire his philosophy; I admire him.’’
There is distinction there, I suppose, between endorsing the man’s politics and his singular Darwinian perseverance. But it’s slim.
Did anybody notice any of it?
No.
Why? Because Ozzie was in Chicago.
"What do you make of Ozzie's comments?"...
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I wonder if Ozzie has ever wondered what he might think of the government official who came to him and his family tomorrow; stripping them of their personal liberties and demanding that they give up all of their property and possessions that had any real value.
His "right to appeal?" Board the next plane to another country with only the shirts on your backs.
This said to proud, prosperous people, like Ozzie.
If it were to happen to him, I would imagine that he'd have some difficulty separating the official, the individual, from his politics.
He should be fired. There are way too many excellent candidates for manager (Latino and otherwise) to allow some incredibly unthinking and insensitive boor from alienating an entire franchise from a sizable portion of its fan base.
His "right to appeal?" Board the next plane to another country with only the shirts on your backs.
This said to proud, prosperous people, like Ozzie.
If it were to happen to him, I would imagine that he'd have some difficulty separating the official, the individual, from his politics.
He should be fired. There are way too many excellent candidates for manager (Latino and otherwise) to allow some incredibly unthinking and insensitive boor from alienating an entire franchise from a sizable portion of its fan base.
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And the same could said about some players!
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- "He should be fired. There are way too many excellent candidates for manager (Latino and otherwise) to allow some incredibly unthinking and insensitive boor from alienating an entire franchise from a sizable portion of its fan base."
And the same could said about some players!
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What would happen if a manager said he admired or respected Bin Laden?
He'd have to say it in NY City for it to have the same import as Ozzy running off at the mouth in Miami.
quote:I wonder if Ozzie has ever wondered what he might think of the government official who came to him and his family tomorrow; stripping them of their personal liberties and demanding that they give up all of their property and possessions that had any real value.
His "right to appeal?" Board the next plane to another country with only the shirts on your backs.
This said to proud, prosperous people, like Ozzie.
If it were to happen to him, I would imagine that he'd have some difficulty separating the official, the individual, from his politics.
He should be fired. There are way too many excellent candidates for manager (Latino and otherwise) to allow some incredibly unthinking and insensitive boor from alienating an entire franchise from a sizable portion of its fan base.
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You couldn't say it any better than Prepster did. We live in a community composed of a large number of professionals who fled Cuba in the very late 50's and 60's, leaving their live's work behind. They are the hardest working, most patriotic individuals you can imagine, and have produced patriotic, successful children and extended families. I don't see the Cuban community forgetting this.