JBB, good topic. Fungo, another (getting tired of saying this) good post.
I've yelled at my son for a lot of things, but baseball was never one of them. My son is pretty emotional and when he had a bad game, the last thing he wants to talk about is how (in his words) he suc*ed. We would talk about it later when he settled down and wanted to talk about it. He passed me a long time ago about his mechanics and thought processes so he pretty much knows what went wrong. He also knows enough to let it go and not affect his next outing.
After one game last season my wife actually said she hates baseball (that's how bad she hurt for him). I understand that baseball is a game of failure (where else can you get in the HOF for doing something right 3 out of 10 times). I get upset with parents/coaches who yell during the games at their boys for making errors, striking out, walking batters. That's all part of baseball. Do you think they want to screw up?! "THROW STRIKES", duh!! "HIT THE BALL", duh!!
Irregardless of the final outcome, I consider anyone who can persevere in this game a winner. If my boy doesn't go any further in baseball, he's still a winner in my book.
Ramrod, I don't think you really meant the following: Maybe you did!
You go on to talk about disappointment in the results/performance. Everyone is disappointed in results from time to time. Don't know if there is an exact recipe, as a parent, to deal with bad results. My preference was to shrug it off and get to work.
I always liked the old saying regarding preparation. "Failure to prepare is preparing to fail." When you experience failure, you prepare for the next time.
If my sons would have shown lack of effort (at any sport) it would of been time to tell them to go do something else... something they enjoyed enough to give it their all.
Hope this doesn't turn into another who is right/who is wrong thread. I think everyone here cares a lot about their kids and has the right to do things... their way!
quote:First it is so my son understands that I am disappointed in his effort and there are reasons for it.
You go on to talk about disappointment in the results/performance. Everyone is disappointed in results from time to time. Don't know if there is an exact recipe, as a parent, to deal with bad results. My preference was to shrug it off and get to work.
I always liked the old saying regarding preparation. "Failure to prepare is preparing to fail." When you experience failure, you prepare for the next time.
If my sons would have shown lack of effort (at any sport) it would of been time to tell them to go do something else... something they enjoyed enough to give it their all.
Hope this doesn't turn into another who is right/who is wrong thread. I think everyone here cares a lot about their kids and has the right to do things... their way!
Frank,
You and me both. Some of the best pitchers have the worst memories. Shrug it off, move on and get to work, is good advice.
The Serenity Prayer could be passed out at the gate. Maybe We should start a 12-step group for baseball parents.
Serenity Prayer
God grant me
the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference;
quote:He passed me a long time ago about his mechanics and thought processes so he pretty much knows what went wrong. He also knows enough to let it go and not affect his next outing.
You and me both. Some of the best pitchers have the worst memories. Shrug it off, move on and get to work, is good advice.
The Serenity Prayer could be passed out at the gate. Maybe We should start a 12-step group for baseball parents.
Serenity Prayer
God grant me
the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference;
It's easy to accept bad days on the baseball field when you look at the player as your son first and the ballplayer second. I'm proud of my son whether he's 4-for-4 or 0-for-4 because I know how hard he works and hoe much he loves baseball. I have trouble accepting that my son is 17, for it seems like yesterday that he was three years old in the backyard and I was only imagining what journey baseball would take him on. Son first, ballplayer second.
Personally, I have never, nor would I ever, be disappointed in my son's performance. Attitude and effort, however, are another story.
There was mention in a post or two about expressing disappointment by a glance or something during a game. I would be very disappointed in either one of my kids if they looked toward me during their game......that would mean that their focus is being misdirected......I have coached kids at all ages who look to parents (mostly dads) during games, usually looking for approval or to see if there is disappointment......in my opinion, not a good thing at all.
There was mention in a post or two about expressing disappointment by a glance or something during a game. I would be very disappointed in either one of my kids if they looked toward me during their game......that would mean that their focus is being misdirected......I have coached kids at all ages who look to parents (mostly dads) during games, usually looking for approval or to see if there is disappointment......in my opinion, not a good thing at all.
In regards to parent watching. This might be an experience to think about, it is very true, we were the parents. I really hope it never happens to any of those on the HSBBW site, but it very well could and probably will.
Many of us who have sons hope they will someday play at the highest level. I think there are several who post here that will actually realize that… Some already have.
In 2004 my son pitched on opening day in Milwaukee against the Houston Astros. He had a nightmare performance and my wife and I were in the stands. He really didn’t pitch that bad, but every ground ball found a hole and a perfect squeeze play, etc. When he was replaced on the mound he was soundly BOOED by 45,000 fans minus 2 (my wife and I). Then the relief pitcher gave up a grandslam to add to the misery!
I sure didn’t feel like yelling at him. I just wondered how does anyone ever prepare for something like THIS? Then it came to me… you prepare for something like this your whole life. This is not just about baseball.
The next day in the newspaper the reporter actually asked him how he felt about all the booing. His answer: "I didn’t pitch well and deserved to get booed, when I pitch well, they’ll all be cheering."
Having been around baseball all my life, I never prepared for something like this. I’ve seen it happen many times, it just wasn’t OUR son who was being booed by such a large crowd. I actually had an empty feeling that is hard to explain. I sure was not upset, mad or disappointed… I felt terrible, felt sorry for my son. Some of those boos seemed to have so much hatred involved. It’s hard to compare it to the many times you’ve heard the same booing directed at other players.
For a short time, I felt guilty for all the previous tough words spoken to my son. Then after talking to him and reading the newspaper the next day, I felt proud. He was as prepared as one could possibly be.
Anyone who was "parent watching" that day wouldn’t have noticed us. We were the two most silent people in the park!
Many of us who have sons hope they will someday play at the highest level. I think there are several who post here that will actually realize that… Some already have.
In 2004 my son pitched on opening day in Milwaukee against the Houston Astros. He had a nightmare performance and my wife and I were in the stands. He really didn’t pitch that bad, but every ground ball found a hole and a perfect squeeze play, etc. When he was replaced on the mound he was soundly BOOED by 45,000 fans minus 2 (my wife and I). Then the relief pitcher gave up a grandslam to add to the misery!
I sure didn’t feel like yelling at him. I just wondered how does anyone ever prepare for something like THIS? Then it came to me… you prepare for something like this your whole life. This is not just about baseball.
The next day in the newspaper the reporter actually asked him how he felt about all the booing. His answer: "I didn’t pitch well and deserved to get booed, when I pitch well, they’ll all be cheering."
Having been around baseball all my life, I never prepared for something like this. I’ve seen it happen many times, it just wasn’t OUR son who was being booed by such a large crowd. I actually had an empty feeling that is hard to explain. I sure was not upset, mad or disappointed… I felt terrible, felt sorry for my son. Some of those boos seemed to have so much hatred involved. It’s hard to compare it to the many times you’ve heard the same booing directed at other players.
For a short time, I felt guilty for all the previous tough words spoken to my son. Then after talking to him and reading the newspaper the next day, I felt proud. He was as prepared as one could possibly be.
Anyone who was "parent watching" that day wouldn’t have noticed us. We were the two most silent people in the park!
PGStaff,
I always appreciate that post. We need to archive that so we can all enjoy that for years to come!
Thanks,
Fungo
I always appreciate that post. We need to archive that so we can all enjoy that for years to come!
Thanks,
Fungo
PGStaff - I too enjoy that story and can relate to it to a certain extent. I know (on a much smaller scale) the feeling in your stomach that day. And I know how proud you can feel when your son knows how to handle it better than we parents do. 
Having heard many things in the stands...I now find myself with a much different attitude towards a poor performance by anyone...in any sport. I feel a great deal of empathy when I see it now and have learned from personal experience...you just never know who's sitting next to you.
Having heard many things in the stands...I now find myself with a much different attitude towards a poor performance by anyone...in any sport. I feel a great deal of empathy when I see it now and have learned from personal experience...you just never know who's sitting next to you.
PG,
Good post.
The reason I brought this up is because the topic was about parents and their attitude in the development of the young player. I never could see any good from a parent showing their displeasure in a performance. I always felt that it didn't end at the field either.
Anyone who is interested in the end of the story, son called that night and we just listened to what he had to say. Then we placed a call to the pitching coach who told us that what he was going through was not uncommon. You have to know that this game is about failing first. He needed to learn that as well. The wise parent listens and gives support, gives suggestions when asked, and he,the pitching coach, is getting paid to worry about it and make the adjustments.
As long as we did not show displeasure, which obviously so many parents do, he would be fine.
Which he was.
Good post.
The reason I brought this up is because the topic was about parents and their attitude in the development of the young player. I never could see any good from a parent showing their displeasure in a performance. I always felt that it didn't end at the field either.
Anyone who is interested in the end of the story, son called that night and we just listened to what he had to say. Then we placed a call to the pitching coach who told us that what he was going through was not uncommon. You have to know that this game is about failing first. He needed to learn that as well. The wise parent listens and gives support, gives suggestions when asked, and he,the pitching coach, is getting paid to worry about it and make the adjustments.
As long as we did not show displeasure, which obviously so many parents do, he would be fine.
Which he was.
Well now, I've read all the commentaries, since my last post.
It really makes me wonder if anyone here has ever played competitive sports and being coached with a high level of expectation and intensity for detail.
I had a coach that coached with Weeb Ewbank, with the New York Jets, against he Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl III. Bob Shaw was a TE with the Chicago Cards,
When he coached our team he critiqued every play, every player during every play, and ran the film back and forth 100's of times so we could see what we were doing wrong...right down to where our hands should've been on a block. Then we'd go out and practice against the techniques. We went almost undefeated during our seasons with him.
That is exactly what I do with my son...though it sounds like most parents and coaches here think it inappropriate. I don't know how else a kid gets better...maybe by azmosis, I guess.
I similarly had a BB coach, best one I thought, that treated BB as a science, not a sport. He taught us that BB is about understanding the physics of movement in a sports setting. Hee helped me a lot with my understanding of how to get the BB to really move with very little effort. We called him "wizard" because he made things so easy for us to understand and we hardly ever lost a game because of it.
From the time I watched coaching in LL to HS and now in college I have never seen a program that "really" develops pitchers. most of the time coaches spend the majority of their time on what they know...which is hitting and fielding. Pitching is usually given short shriff. Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact. Most coaches can teach a kid how to throw, and they do, and that's about it.
And that has been my observation of the coaching and teaching levels available to most kids that want to learn how to pitch.
Teaching and emphazing points that needed to be made may be "yelling" in my era, but I guess its' inapproprite in our PC day-and-age.
It really makes me wonder if anyone here has ever played competitive sports and being coached with a high level of expectation and intensity for detail.
I had a coach that coached with Weeb Ewbank, with the New York Jets, against he Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl III. Bob Shaw was a TE with the Chicago Cards,
When he coached our team he critiqued every play, every player during every play, and ran the film back and forth 100's of times so we could see what we were doing wrong...right down to where our hands should've been on a block. Then we'd go out and practice against the techniques. We went almost undefeated during our seasons with him.
That is exactly what I do with my son...though it sounds like most parents and coaches here think it inappropriate. I don't know how else a kid gets better...maybe by azmosis, I guess.
I similarly had a BB coach, best one I thought, that treated BB as a science, not a sport. He taught us that BB is about understanding the physics of movement in a sports setting. Hee helped me a lot with my understanding of how to get the BB to really move with very little effort. We called him "wizard" because he made things so easy for us to understand and we hardly ever lost a game because of it.
From the time I watched coaching in LL to HS and now in college I have never seen a program that "really" develops pitchers. most of the time coaches spend the majority of their time on what they know...which is hitting and fielding. Pitching is usually given short shriff. Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact. Most coaches can teach a kid how to throw, and they do, and that's about it.
And that has been my observation of the coaching and teaching levels available to most kids that want to learn how to pitch.
Teaching and emphazing points that needed to be made may be "yelling" in my era, but I guess its' inapproprite in our PC day-and-age.
I believe you see a much wider range of emotions, including (shall we say) high expectations and (perhaps misplaced) optimism in the parents of younger players.
Simply because of lack of experience.
As the players progress from rec ball to select teams/hs and beyond, most parents calm down, having figured out that there are many, many good players out there in addition to their son and that there are both failures and successes to be had.
At the younger ages, everybody is still playing. This means both that anything is still possible, and that even a good player can look great amongst that competition. Even at the hs level, I saw a difference between the reactions of the Players' parents and the parents of boys who were hs starters, but wouldn't play beyond that and so held on to those reactions we here would call LL. Again, lack of experience with the game.
"Yelling" is a funny old, emotionally-laden word. It does mean raising your voice though not necessarily in anger: I know I've had the experience with my kids that I'm accused of "yelling" when they've been in trouble, even though I hadn't raised my voice (back to the Beaver example).
When I coached 8-10 year olds, I had parents (in a painfully PC area) tell me not to yell at their kids during the game. I would explain to them that baseball is a fast-paced game, and if I needed to reposition their son in left field (or simply encourage him to face home plate) in between pitches and from the first base dugout, yelling would be involved. Did I sound angry, or was I just talking loudly and quickly? How would they suggest I communicate? Just an example as to how that word carries and emotional rather than a literal response, and is often misused.
My son was talking with his teammates recently about how their parents behaved at the field....little of it flattering to the parents. I would be surprised to learn that their parents had all been so difficult, but it goes to the point about how one negative outweighs a whole lotta positives.
His 'parent story' was about me coaching during a playoff game in LL when he as about 9. In a crucial situation, he popped up and dogged it toward first; I was standing in front of the first base dugout. I screamed (um, yes, in anger), "run it out", turned around and threw my scorebook hard against the fence. Pop ups happen; effort is always within his control. He said every time he's tired, disappointed in an at-bat, whatever thing that might bring him down, he can still see that fence rattling with the force of my throw and it lights a fire.
Simply because of lack of experience.
As the players progress from rec ball to select teams/hs and beyond, most parents calm down, having figured out that there are many, many good players out there in addition to their son and that there are both failures and successes to be had.
At the younger ages, everybody is still playing. This means both that anything is still possible, and that even a good player can look great amongst that competition. Even at the hs level, I saw a difference between the reactions of the Players' parents and the parents of boys who were hs starters, but wouldn't play beyond that and so held on to those reactions we here would call LL. Again, lack of experience with the game.
"Yelling" is a funny old, emotionally-laden word. It does mean raising your voice though not necessarily in anger: I know I've had the experience with my kids that I'm accused of "yelling" when they've been in trouble, even though I hadn't raised my voice (back to the Beaver example).
When I coached 8-10 year olds, I had parents (in a painfully PC area) tell me not to yell at their kids during the game. I would explain to them that baseball is a fast-paced game, and if I needed to reposition their son in left field (or simply encourage him to face home plate) in between pitches and from the first base dugout, yelling would be involved. Did I sound angry, or was I just talking loudly and quickly? How would they suggest I communicate? Just an example as to how that word carries and emotional rather than a literal response, and is often misused.
My son was talking with his teammates recently about how their parents behaved at the field....little of it flattering to the parents. I would be surprised to learn that their parents had all been so difficult, but it goes to the point about how one negative outweighs a whole lotta positives.
His 'parent story' was about me coaching during a playoff game in LL when he as about 9. In a crucial situation, he popped up and dogged it toward first; I was standing in front of the first base dugout. I screamed (um, yes, in anger), "run it out", turned around and threw my scorebook hard against the fence. Pop ups happen; effort is always within his control. He said every time he's tired, disappointed in an at-bat, whatever thing that might bring him down, he can still see that fence rattling with the force of my throw and it lights a fire.
Coaches yell. Thats fine. MOST parents sense a conflict of interest in coaching and parenting. MOST parents can't pull off both well, at the same time. Those few that can deserve two paychecks. MOST kids seem to prefer that coaches be coaches and parents be parents.
I know of one or two cases where it worked out at the college or pro level and many more contaminated by daddyball, hurt feelings etc.
Parent/coaches are like a family businesses. They are both oxymorons to MOST people. I know very few families undamaged by sharing business interests. jmho
I know of one or two cases where it worked out at the college or pro level and many more contaminated by daddyball, hurt feelings etc.
Parent/coaches are like a family businesses. They are both oxymorons to MOST people. I know very few families undamaged by sharing business interests. jmho
Just b/c people tend not to subscribe to the "Yell When He Screws Up" theory or just because most of us don't feel the need to scrutinize every gnat's eyelash detail of the kid's game doesn't mean none of us played competitively, nor does it mean that our kids won't take something from a performance. Many a poster on this thread have alluded to/stated that "the kid knows what he is doing, he knows when he screwed up, and he probably knows what he did wrong." Just because we don't prepare a double spaced, 45 page copy [in triplicate] of our breakdown of each pitch, doesn't mean the kid won't make adjustments. The last thing a kid needs after and 0-fer or a shelling is a "debriefing". I'm not against offering up a "you were pulling your foot out on those last 2 ABs, that's why you weren't getting anything on the ball" after an 0-fer. And after getting shelled, I'll still give him his pitch chart "Ya got behind too many guys early in the count and they were sitting on the FB". He knows when he hangs one and he knows when he leaves a FB right down Broadway - he remembers b/c that's generally the pitches that ended up in the parking lot. Doesn't need me to point that out.
There is nobody more competitive than me [in my mind] and nobody hates to lose more than me [again, in my mind]. I won't yell at the kid during the game or after either, regardless of the outcome. Acting like an idiot is a different story [him not me] - if he wants to embarrass himself, his teammates and his family on the field, then I'm all for helping him out with it.
But at some point, as was pointed out earlier, you have to remember that it is still a game, they are still kids [even in HS] and after a bad day at the park, they need some commiseration, a little bit of the bird's eye view of what went wrong, and a whole pack of LifeSavers [remember that commercial??]. What they don't need is a debriefing by General Patton and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Nothing happens by "osmosis" but they sure do learn and absorb a lot along the way - they don't need to look forward to the dreaded post-game undressing.
IMHO
And NO, I don't coddle my kids - don't believe in it; but I don't believe in kicking a dog when he is down either.
There is nobody more competitive than me [in my mind] and nobody hates to lose more than me [again, in my mind]. I won't yell at the kid during the game or after either, regardless of the outcome. Acting like an idiot is a different story [him not me] - if he wants to embarrass himself, his teammates and his family on the field, then I'm all for helping him out with it.
But at some point, as was pointed out earlier, you have to remember that it is still a game, they are still kids [even in HS] and after a bad day at the park, they need some commiseration, a little bit of the bird's eye view of what went wrong, and a whole pack of LifeSavers [remember that commercial??]. What they don't need is a debriefing by General Patton and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Nothing happens by "osmosis" but they sure do learn and absorb a lot along the way - they don't need to look forward to the dreaded post-game undressing.
IMHO
And NO, I don't coddle my kids - don't believe in it; but I don't believe in kicking a dog when he is down either.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ramrod:
Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact.
QUOTE]
That is not a fact; that is opinion. I make my living coaching. I haven't met one dad, of all the kids I have coached since 1979, who can teach pitching better than I can. I will admit that there are many who can teach hitting much better than I can.
Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact.
QUOTE]
That is not a fact; that is opinion. I make my living coaching. I haven't met one dad, of all the kids I have coached since 1979, who can teach pitching better than I can. I will admit that there are many who can teach hitting much better than I can.
Ramrod, it sounds like you had some excellent coaches who were very successful.
As I read yours, it sounds like you take lessons and techiques learned and observed from coaches and directly apply them to the role of being a parent. Personally, I think those need to be as separate as possible for the betterment of both the player/child and parent/coach relationships, but that is only my view of things.
To show this is not just a one way street, my son now uses my history of coaching him to "chew" on me some. Turns out the roving hitting instructor in his organization wanted to change much of his approach to hitting. They were discussing how imbedded his approach is and mine disclosed he has used it successfully at every level since he was 8 years old. Where he "chews" on me is that the hitting instructor told him that "coach" and approach really screwed him up for professional ball. Of course, that "coach" was me...who was so happy and satisfied it got him this far. 
Honestly, I think PG and Justbb make great observations. As your son progresses in baseball into college and hopefully beyond, whether we like it or not, the quality of their play becomes a matter for public and media scrutiny. You quickly find out that the public is boisterous, demanding, and often times quite insensitive. I think most of us also find out for the first time that there are lots of players who have comparable skills with ours. Personally, when I saw that, I found myself a much better parent and fan. Through high school, the better players really are not challenged much so they don't fail much.When they do, it seems to be the exception, not the rule. Only when they get to college and beyond do they really play baseball with those of comparable skills and only then do we see the game is filled with failure, no matter how hard they try. I have found that takes the focus off the result/success/failure and places it on the effort. I love to watch baseball now!
Wonder if that transition would make any difference to the father of that 13 year old.
_______________________________________
"The game of baseball always has a way of reminding you that you aren’t better than the game, no matter how good you are."
As I read yours, it sounds like you take lessons and techiques learned and observed from coaches and directly apply them to the role of being a parent. Personally, I think those need to be as separate as possible for the betterment of both the player/child and parent/coach relationships, but that is only my view of things.
To show this is not just a one way street, my son now uses my history of coaching him to "chew" on me some. Turns out the roving hitting instructor in his organization wanted to change much of his approach to hitting. They were discussing how imbedded his approach is and mine disclosed he has used it successfully at every level since he was 8 years old. Where he "chews" on me is that the hitting instructor told him that "coach" and approach really screwed him up for professional ball. Of course, that "coach" was me...who was so happy and satisfied it got him this far.
Honestly, I think PG and Justbb make great observations. As your son progresses in baseball into college and hopefully beyond, whether we like it or not, the quality of their play becomes a matter for public and media scrutiny. You quickly find out that the public is boisterous, demanding, and often times quite insensitive. I think most of us also find out for the first time that there are lots of players who have comparable skills with ours. Personally, when I saw that, I found myself a much better parent and fan. Through high school, the better players really are not challenged much so they don't fail much.When they do, it seems to be the exception, not the rule. Only when they get to college and beyond do they really play baseball with those of comparable skills and only then do we see the game is filled with failure, no matter how hard they try. I have found that takes the focus off the result/success/failure and places it on the effort. I love to watch baseball now!
Wonder if that transition would make any difference to the father of that 13 year old.
_______________________________________
"The game of baseball always has a way of reminding you that you aren’t better than the game, no matter how good you are."
I'm with Grateful - reading books and going to clinics doesn't make one an expert. There are lots of broken careers out there of kids whose dads taught them to pitch, and lots of kids who are deemed "uncoachable" after telling a coach ' I do it this way, b/c that's how my dad told me'. Kid is WAY better off when dad is man enough to admit, via getting a pitching coach for junior, that he doesn't know everything.
The way this has gone I almost wish it had taken the path that TASMIT was looking for re: Parent Watching!! Lot less emotional
The way this has gone I almost wish it had taken the path that TASMIT was looking for re: Parent Watching!! Lot less emotional
quote:Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact.
I was just the baseball chauffer, as were the vast majority of my peers at the "select" level. I know two high school level coaches with sons pitching in pro ball who were hands on. One of the players, now at AAA told my kid not to listen to anything HIS dad said. His dad was coaching my son at the time. The rest of the 40 or 50 other pitchers dads, including those that played in college or proball including a 12 year major leaguer, were just that, dads.
I will throw in two pennies for what it's worth.
I was more critical of my older son (now 15) during his earlier years. Fortunately for me, he is left-handed and therefore listened to almost nothing I was saying to him. He still plays and loves baseball despite my poor parenting. Mother Nature knew what she was doing when she gave me him first...he had the personality to allow me to practice with him.
My baby (now 10) is much more sensitive. I would destroy him and his enjoyment of playing if I took that approach. Threfore, I laugh at the funny mistakes the 10 YO's (including my son) make with the realization that all these boys that want to, will figure out how to play the game. All to soon, it will be serious.
RR, I don't think any of us is perfect in parenting, certainly not me. We are just sharing thoughts about the topic so maybe we can get some understanding of where we all go wrong sometimes.
I was more critical of my older son (now 15) during his earlier years. Fortunately for me, he is left-handed and therefore listened to almost nothing I was saying to him. He still plays and loves baseball despite my poor parenting. Mother Nature knew what she was doing when she gave me him first...he had the personality to allow me to practice with him.
My baby (now 10) is much more sensitive. I would destroy him and his enjoyment of playing if I took that approach. Threfore, I laugh at the funny mistakes the 10 YO's (including my son) make with the realization that all these boys that want to, will figure out how to play the game. All to soon, it will be serious.
RR, I don't think any of us is perfect in parenting, certainly not me. We are just sharing thoughts about the topic so maybe we can get some understanding of where we all go wrong sometimes.
Infielddad
Were you telling him to throw his top hand at the ball, like I did?
Were you telling him to throw his top hand at the ball, like I did?
quote:Originally posted by Ramrod:
From the time I watched coaching in LL to HS and now in college I have never seen a program that "really" develops pitchers. most of the time coaches spend the majority of their time on what they know...which is hitting and fielding. Pitching is usually given short shriff. Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact. Most coaches can teach a kid how to throw, and they do, and that's about it.
And my son was so excited as he felt he was make tremendous progress under the instruction of a pitching coach. Oh well.
Windmill-"General Patton and the Joint Chiefs of Staff"- Thanks for the
chuckle. Exactly what I thought after reading RR's post.
Yelling=De-briefing
I'll use that one when my wife tells me to stop yelling at the kids or the
dog. "Honey, I was just de-briefing Junior for backing into that tree that's been next to the driveway for the last 17 years."
"Sorry, I won't de-brief him so loud next time."
Thanks for thechuckle. Exactly what I thought after reading RR's post.
Yelling=De-briefing
I'll use that one when my wife tells me to stop yelling at the kids or the
dog. "Honey, I was just de-briefing Junior for backing into that tree that's been next to the driveway for the last 17 years."
"Sorry, I won't de-brief him so loud next time."
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Infielddad
Were you telling him to throw his top hand at the ball, like I did?
Dad04,
I thought that was for golf! Maybe that's how I got in his way.In today's baseball lingo, it turns out I was teaching him to "see the ball long." When the ball is coming 90+ I still don't understand how I could teach something that could take "long" but I guess I did.
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The game of baseball always has a way of reminding you that you aren’t better than the game, no matter how good you are.
Thanks you for your responses...
Just a thought for all Dads and coaches that appear to be offended with my own observations...don't be. I'm not challenging anyone here, rather explaining my own thinking and methodology.
When I use the word "most" that simply means that "more-than- not or at least over 50% of the time. Which leaves plenty of room for those that fall outside to the stated category.
Yelling means emphazing a point. Or explaining in detail. It does not mean out-of-control screaming with no purpose other than to vent frustration.
My coaches came from a different era, remember we had to do everything visually by painting word pictures. Now kids have all kinds of visual aids, videos, and teaching camps. But for me I like the old ways of doing things so, yes, I do run the film back and forth, both explicitly, and figuratively.
I do spend time with my son, at least an hour per week going over proper mechanics without the ball, its all simulation work now. We also go over check offs to make sure he has the toolbox with him on the mound that gives him the answers he needs to "lock-in".
Insubordination to a coach is not one of those tools.
Just a thought for all Dads and coaches that appear to be offended with my own observations...don't be. I'm not challenging anyone here, rather explaining my own thinking and methodology.
When I use the word "most" that simply means that "more-than- not or at least over 50% of the time. Which leaves plenty of room for those that fall outside to the stated category.
Yelling means emphazing a point. Or explaining in detail. It does not mean out-of-control screaming with no purpose other than to vent frustration.
My coaches came from a different era, remember we had to do everything visually by painting word pictures. Now kids have all kinds of visual aids, videos, and teaching camps. But for me I like the old ways of doing things so, yes, I do run the film back and forth, both explicitly, and figuratively.
I do spend time with my son, at least an hour per week going over proper mechanics without the ball, its all simulation work now. We also go over check offs to make sure he has the toolbox with him on the mound that gives him the answers he needs to "lock-in".
Insubordination to a coach is not one of those tools.
quote:Originally posted by lafmom:quote:Originally posted by Ramrod:
From the time I watched coaching in LL to HS and now in college I have never seen a program that "really" develops pitchers. most of the time coaches spend the majority of their time on what they know...which is hitting and fielding. Pitching is usually given short shriff. Most good pitchers are because they have a Dad that taught them...not because some coach spent countless hours teaching a kid how to pitch...that's a fact. Most coaches can teach a kid how to throw, and they do, and that's about it.
And my son was so excited as he felt he was make tremendous progress under the instruction of a pitching coach. Oh well.
Lafmom, not to worry. I think this is only a "left coast" phenomenon. Not a decent pitching coach in all of California, which is why my son doesn't.
quote:In today's baseball lingo, it turns out I was teaching him to "see the ball long." When the ball is coming 90+ I still don't understand how I could teach something that could take "long" but I guess I did.
Luckily i was smart enough to do as I was told by the time he was 12 and "Get off the mound and just get down behind the plate, where you belong, DAD!"
"Yes, son."
quote:just get down behind the plate
And could you "see the ball long from there?"
I'm trying to understand what that looks like so I don't affect anyone else. 
debriefing---isn't this wartime term--Debrief my kid--are you kidding !!! I didnt even lecture him-- I advised him
I'm sure a kid would look forward to "mustering at the car at 2330 hours for a post game de-brief and sit rep."
A couple of years ago, I made the mistake of telling Junior the story of when our favorite announcer, Timmy Mac, walked out to the mound one day when Gibson was pitching. Gibson snarled "What are you doing out here? The only thing you know about pitching is - you can't hit it."
That has been directed at me on more than one occasion since. See -- they do listen!
A couple of years ago, I made the mistake of telling Junior the story of when our favorite announcer, Timmy Mac, walked out to the mound one day when Gibson was pitching. Gibson snarled "What are you doing out here? The only thing you know about pitching is - you can't hit it."
That has been directed at me on more than one occasion since. See -- they do listen!
quote:And could you "see the ball long from there?"
I could see them long, just not catch them, let alone hit them. My comfort level ends when the ball begins to move.
Take him out to the cages at Christmas and get him to "see the ball BIG and SLOW" and see how that goes.
Debrief me later.
Actually, consider the source and disregard the directive.
quote:BIG and SLOW
I think we lost something in the brief debriefing. "BIG and SLOW" is how he refers to me. Sounds like a "conspiracy" being formed by all the pitcher's Dads.
I'm more of a Big & Rich kinda guy. I guess that's just my country roots.
Interesting thing though... I'm big, but not very rich.
...think I need a debriefing.
...maybe just need to be briefer.
...maybe it's just my briefs.
Interesting thing though... I'm big, but not very rich.
...think I need a debriefing.
...maybe just need to be briefer.
...maybe it's just my briefs.
that's just a perfect additudequote:by greatful: Personally, I have never, nor would I ever, be disappointed in my son's performance
BUT - debriefing? - - - eh, OK - guilty as charged
my debriefings used to be a hug & an ice cream cone
now, the debriefings are "real food" (ie-$$$)
- but, the hug is still ok
I'm not an agent or manager -
I'm waaaay higher than that -
I'm a DAD
it's just AWSOME to see him doing something HE enjoys
.
I've enjoyed reading the play on words...humorous, and very predictable. Reminds me of Emmet Kelly and his broom. Everyone laughed at him but he was the reason they enjoyed themselves. Guess he knew how simple people can be.
Ramrod,
I dont find anything about this topic funny at all.
Much more sobering than it is funny. IMO.
I dont find anything about this topic funny at all.
Much more sobering than it is funny. IMO.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Ramrod,
I dont find anything about this topic funny at all.
Much more sobering than it is funny. IMO.
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Don't spindle, bend or mutilate...straight talk for itsinthegame...got it.
PG,
You have a PM.
You have a PM.