The point was TPM that if MY SON was not taught the CB he might never have been a pitcher let alone a college pitcher. The stats are from college after 30 innings.
The conversation was fine until BLPRK made the nasty comment.
Are you still a moderator ?
BHD should be given the same consideration as any other poster on this site. He gets attacked and no one raises an eyebrow? Why? Is it because he goes against the grain on many topics? Say what you will about BHD and its all been said especially recently. He is not afraid to offer an opposing view point. He stands by his guns. That post was uncalled for imo.
Coach May, this topic was about someone else, that's just my opinion. I have no clue what someone who paid x amount of dollars years ago for pitching (or for free) adds to the topic or stats or who knew what doctor and office visits twice a year, etc, etc.
I have no issue with what some post about their experiences, but with such detail about everything, not sure why some stuff comes out sketchy. BHD son pitched 31 innings.
Moderator, yeah I spend endless hours reading over stuff here some stuff over and over, does that make me a moderator? What does that have to do with anything.
I have no issue with what some post about their experiences, but with such detail about everything, not sure why some stuff comes out sketchy. BHD son pitched 31 innings.
Moderator, yeah I spend endless hours reading over stuff here some stuff over and over, does that make me a moderator? What does that have to do with anything.
Beg to differ Coach,
Came to BHD's defense on a few occasions. Even commented on the dog piling.
Also commented on tag teaming only to have it deleted. Oh well.....that goes with the territory of being a "pot stirer".
Came to BHD's defense on a few occasions. Even commented on the dog piling.
Also commented on tag teaming only to have it deleted. Oh well.....that goes with the territory of being a "pot stirer".
Workinghard yes you did and I had a chuckle over the dog pile. Didn't get to see the tag team one. Coach May I appreciate you stepping up.
I just think a Moderate should be an example of reasonable posting. I thought that JH answered my questions well .
I just think a Moderate should be an example of reasonable posting. I thought that JH answered my questions well .
I dont have any issues with your moderating TPM. My post was not directed at you. My issue was with the post.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Workinghard yes you did and I had a chuckle over the dog pile. Didn't get to see the tag team one. Coach May I appreciate you stepping up.
I just think a Moderate should be an example of reasonable posting. I thought that JH answered my questions well .
BHD, you assume what my duties are here, but I am just a webster just like you, if you have any questions about that, you can contact Julie.
I was just wondering and have a right to ask, why the long posts with often misleading information? Correct info will support YOUR credibility and give your arguments credibility. Anyone can look up stats, I am not sure you understand that. This is a good example of what irks me and perhaps others, why post son's stats without mentioning in the first place that those were after the first 30 and he only pitched 31. But his issues, he encountered last year last, you state, were not throwing CB's at an early age, but the coaches fault?
Stop blaming stuff on the coaches, or teamamtes for bad games, etc., do you read any credible webster here doing that?
My pitcher threw over 200 innings in college, perhaps that is why he is having issues, have I blamed anyone? No, the full responsibility lies upon we as parents and what we allow our young pitchers or players to do. Perhaps yours throwing too many CB's or mine throwing too hard caused issues, we do not know, that is why, anyone should never tell anyone what is ok and not is ok, it's all subjective to who is throwing the ball. I was just having that conversation with pitcher son last night. He works so hard at doing all the things he is supposed to do, yet he sees pitchers not do anything to take care of their bodies or arms properly and never have issues.
I admire JH for having concerns, that is the proper thing to do, when working with 11 year olds. You threw him under the bus, not being knowledgeable then threw in all of your infinite wisdom using misinformation. Wrong.
TRHit, I read through 1/2 of the first page and read you first post.... you have always been someone on this site I respected, I do even more now.
I think you are one of the finest contributors to this site. That was not only great advice but you backed it up with "call me".
Just a fantastic guy...IMO
OP, I hope you called him... Curve balls are a no-no for a non-growth plate mature pitcher.
I think you are one of the finest contributors to this site. That was not only great advice but you backed it up with "call me".
Just a fantastic guy...IMO
OP, I hope you called him... Curve balls are a no-no for a non-growth plate mature pitcher.
TR and I have our moments but I agree, he gave the young man encouragement to do the right thing, beleive in what you feel is best.
That's what the HSBBW is all about, JMO.
I know I am a pain in the rear, but let's try to get it right folks. It's so easy to use ourselves and our children as examples, but what I have learned, what is right for mine is not always right for yours.
That's what the HSBBW is all about, JMO.
I know I am a pain in the rear, but let's try to get it right folks. It's so easy to use ourselves and our children as examples, but what I have learned, what is right for mine is not always right for yours.
TPM I said stats were soph year for his 1st 30 innings.
Why don't you try reading for a change ? Yes all our son's stats are there for public consumption. To save you looking he threw 35.1 innings that year and blew his era up to 5.09. He was still 5th on the stats, The guy who had the best stats had the same number of innings and ended up with TJ surgery missing his SR year.
Yes I do blame it on poor coaching and the revolving door of coaches. So do the other parents and players I talked to. As I said his 1st P coach was great and the last one was also very good.
My reference to cost were in reference to Mr Zinks question.
Your attacks turn every thread I post in into a war. As you said y0u won't apologize to anyone including Coach May.
Why don't you try reading for a change ? Yes all our son's stats are there for public consumption. To save you looking he threw 35.1 innings that year and blew his era up to 5.09. He was still 5th on the stats, The guy who had the best stats had the same number of innings and ended up with TJ surgery missing his SR year.
Yes I do blame it on poor coaching and the revolving door of coaches. So do the other parents and players I talked to. As I said his 1st P coach was great and the last one was also very good.
My reference to cost were in reference to Mr Zinks question.
Your attacks turn every thread I post in into a war. As you said y0u won't apologize to anyone including Coach May.
JH, I think you already know the answer. Its that gut feeling you got when that conversation ended. I'm big on gut feelings. However, I will throw this out. I'd give the young man a free lesson. I'd watch him, make a couple of minor adjustments IF I thought they were minor in nature and to see how he takes coaching. Then, I'd tell the Dad that you would like the teach this young man to spot the fastball and work on a change.
JH, I don't know your level of expertise. Not everyone that has had success playing can coach. That's not a stab at you. I'm sure many here will agree. However, if you think you have the wherewithall to help this young man after the initial lesson, you might be doing this young man a huge service. If you have a bad feeling afterwards or if you are wondering that what you have to offer is not what this dad is looking for, politely let them find another instructor. JMHO!
As an FYI, I always give the first lesson for free. I try to get some of it on film and I try have a talk with the player. I have asked a player to come back for a second one for free BUT to be honest, those most often have been the ones where I do my best to let the parent know that if I take their child, they need to have a lot of patience with the process because this will be a HUGE CHALLENGE MAKEING THE YOUNG MAN FUNCTIONAL.
JH, I don't know your level of expertise. Not everyone that has had success playing can coach. That's not a stab at you. I'm sure many here will agree. However, if you think you have the wherewithall to help this young man after the initial lesson, you might be doing this young man a huge service. If you have a bad feeling afterwards or if you are wondering that what you have to offer is not what this dad is looking for, politely let them find another instructor. JMHO!
As an FYI, I always give the first lesson for free. I try to get some of it on film and I try have a talk with the player. I have asked a player to come back for a second one for free BUT to be honest, those most often have been the ones where I do my best to let the parent know that if I take their child, they need to have a lot of patience with the process because this will be a HUGE CHALLENGE MAKEING THE YOUNG MAN FUNCTIONAL.
You know you are right, you say so much stuff no one can keep track of it.
Who brags about their kids stats only up until they don't look good anymore. Does that mean it is ok for me to mention son went endless innings with a 0 era until he blew up, do people care? Besides, that's OLD information. Who cares where he fell in stats, or what the top pitcher did and if he had TJ surgery or not? BHD, it adds no value to this discussion or the ones you habve mentioned same stuff post after post. That's the point, trying to help you understand that, but it's fruitless.
Don't drag CM into this and tell me I have to apologize, he's just nicer than me, and he knows his stuff and gives excellent advice, helped lots of players, knows lots of people, like you claim, yet knows how to be humble in the process of helping others and in his posts. Have you ever seen any parent sof college players post their son's stats? No, never. Trying to help you understand that, but you just don't get it.
Who brags about their kids stats only up until they don't look good anymore. Does that mean it is ok for me to mention son went endless innings with a 0 era until he blew up, do people care? Besides, that's OLD information. Who cares where he fell in stats, or what the top pitcher did and if he had TJ surgery or not? BHD, it adds no value to this discussion or the ones you habve mentioned same stuff post after post. That's the point, trying to help you understand that, but it's fruitless.
Don't drag CM into this and tell me I have to apologize, he's just nicer than me, and he knows his stuff and gives excellent advice, helped lots of players, knows lots of people, like you claim, yet knows how to be humble in the process of helping others and in his posts. Have you ever seen any parent sof college players post their son's stats? No, never. Trying to help you understand that, but you just don't get it.
TPM read JH's post answering my questions. He agrees with what I said. He coses to not teach the CB witch is his prerogative. He understands that their is no link to youth injuries and CB's.
Now explain to me how your attacks added to the conversation.
Now explain to me how your attacks added to the conversation.
TPM and BHD I enjoy reading both of your posts and you both add alot to this site imo.
workinghard - i enjoy your posts as well.
You can go back and read your posts over.
I am done, it doesn't matter anyway, tomorrow or the next day, we will hear it all over again.
I am done, it doesn't matter anyway, tomorrow or the next day, we will hear it all over again.
Boy did this go way off topic.
I am a father of a 12 year old, who will be 13 in June. My son has seen three instructors in his short career and none have taught him to throw a curve. All three have stated discomfort with teaching at the age of 10-12. At 13 his regular instructor is going to start teaching him curve balls (he already knows how to throw one, just like every other 12 year pitcher out there).
Go over with the father exactly what you plan on teaching. Explain to him your concerns about throwing a curve ball at 11. If he comments about some of the research agree with him about it and tell him that you have read it but that the jury isn't completely in this yet and that you don't feel comfortable teaching someone to throw a curve until they are able to command the fastball and changeup.
If he doesn't like that answer then good, you didn't waste his or your time. Whether teaching a curve at the age of 11 is a smart thing or not isn't really what is important. You are the instructor offering a service. The father is the customer seeing if he wants to purchase that service. If you either can't or won't teach what he wants then he will simply go somewhere else. There is nothing wrong with that.
I am a father of a 12 year old, who will be 13 in June. My son has seen three instructors in his short career and none have taught him to throw a curve. All three have stated discomfort with teaching at the age of 10-12. At 13 his regular instructor is going to start teaching him curve balls (he already knows how to throw one, just like every other 12 year pitcher out there).
Go over with the father exactly what you plan on teaching. Explain to him your concerns about throwing a curve ball at 11. If he comments about some of the research agree with him about it and tell him that you have read it but that the jury isn't completely in this yet and that you don't feel comfortable teaching someone to throw a curve until they are able to command the fastball and changeup.
If he doesn't like that answer then good, you didn't waste his or your time. Whether teaching a curve at the age of 11 is a smart thing or not isn't really what is important. You are the instructor offering a service. The father is the customer seeing if he wants to purchase that service. If you either can't or won't teach what he wants then he will simply go somewhere else. There is nothing wrong with that.
wklink,
Welcome to the HSBBW. My sentiments were the same with our player and so were most of the coaches son worked with (and his dad) about when to begin throwing a CB on a needed basis. Mine had a good CB at a young age, but not sure if he had relied on it his would have gained the velocity he has, he grew up on a 4 seam, a 2 seam and a CU, until 15. No sliders until college. I don't care what studies are done regarding the CB and injuries, common sense tells us that a pitcher needs to learn repeatable mechanics, most 17-18 year olds have trouble repeating it, why would 11 year olds?
What most of us have to remember is that injury may take years to show up, it doesn't all of a sudden happen when one gets to college, and you can't blame a college coach. My son's former college pitching coach has had to rehab many TJ or shoulder injuries that show up after a year or two, and he is probably one of the best, so do we blame him for those injuries? No, many already come like ticking timebombs. Whatever your player does at 11+ will be a direct result of what happens later on, whether improper mechanics, overuse, etc.
Welcome to the HSBBW. My sentiments were the same with our player and so were most of the coaches son worked with (and his dad) about when to begin throwing a CB on a needed basis. Mine had a good CB at a young age, but not sure if he had relied on it his would have gained the velocity he has, he grew up on a 4 seam, a 2 seam and a CU, until 15. No sliders until college. I don't care what studies are done regarding the CB and injuries, common sense tells us that a pitcher needs to learn repeatable mechanics, most 17-18 year olds have trouble repeating it, why would 11 year olds?
What most of us have to remember is that injury may take years to show up, it doesn't all of a sudden happen when one gets to college, and you can't blame a college coach. My son's former college pitching coach has had to rehab many TJ or shoulder injuries that show up after a year or two, and he is probably one of the best, so do we blame him for those injuries? No, many already come like ticking timebombs. Whatever your player does at 11+ will be a direct result of what happens later on, whether improper mechanics, overuse, etc.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
workinghard - i enjoy your posts as well.
Thanks Coach, that's an early Christmas gift. 
Merry Christmas from the workinghard family!!
When my son was eleven he tried to teach himself how to throw a curve. So I taught him the proper way. At eleven I only let him pitch three innings a week. At twelve it was six. In six innings and 80-90 pitches he probably threw 5-10 curves. He also threw a knuckle change. Two-thirds of the lineup he smoked with fastballs.quote:I am a father of a 12 year old, who will be 13 in June. My son has seen three instructors in his short career and none have taught him to throw a curve. All three have stated discomfort with teaching at the age of 10-12. At 13 his regular instructor is going to start teaching him curve balls (he already knows how to throw one, just like every other 12 year pitcher out there).
At thirteen he left behind the 46 and 50 foot pitching distances for the full size field. He was only 5'2", 110 at thirteen. I didn't want him to overextend his arm. He never threw curves in a game. We practiced the curve from 55 feet. At 60 feet he tended to torque up his arm. Without the curve he worked hard on a circle change. The benefit was he developed a nasty change.
My experience is the kids who learned the curve early benefitted due to the lack of number of hitters who could handle it. But it came at the expense of the change. A lot of those preteen curves were hangers that got belted as the hittters mature in their teens.
I think it comes down to learning a core set of pitches before starting on a different pitch set that requires drastically different wrist and arm positions.
I think that is the real issue. It's not that teaching a curve ball intrisically hurts a kids arm. The problem arises when kids try to throw a curve without mastering the proper throwing technique for the other pitches. Lets face it, we have all seen kids out there that can rifle bullets but can't hit the broad side of a barn with that throw. Their arm is all over the place when they throw and as a result they can't consistantly hit the strike zone.
When I got Danny his instruction my goal was to turn him into a pinpoint thrower before going on to more advanced pitches. Kids that don't have the fundamentals down are really at risk for hurting themselves when throwing offspeed stuff. That is why I honestly believe that most coaches tend to shy away from teaching kids curve balls.
I think that is the real issue. It's not that teaching a curve ball intrisically hurts a kids arm. The problem arises when kids try to throw a curve without mastering the proper throwing technique for the other pitches. Lets face it, we have all seen kids out there that can rifle bullets but can't hit the broad side of a barn with that throw. Their arm is all over the place when they throw and as a result they can't consistantly hit the strike zone.
When I got Danny his instruction my goal was to turn him into a pinpoint thrower before going on to more advanced pitches. Kids that don't have the fundamentals down are really at risk for hurting themselves when throwing offspeed stuff. That is why I honestly believe that most coaches tend to shy away from teaching kids curve balls.
quote:The problem arises when kids try to throw a curve without mastering the proper throwing technique for the other pitches.
Of course what is proper is a matter of debate as well.
Looking back(way back) we threw and threw and threw. I never had a sore arm and I was throwing BP into my late 50's(yes I am old but bear with me) Was I lucky? Who knows? all I know is that I threw a lot when I was younger.
quote:Originally posted by Will:quote:The problem arises when kids try to throw a curve without mastering the proper throwing technique for the other pitches.
Of course what is proper is a matter of debate as well.
Looking back(way back) we threw and threw and threw. I never had a sore arm and I was throwing BP into my late 50's(yes I am old but bear with me) Was I lucky? Who knows? all I know is that I threw a lot when I was younger.
That's right Will, I agree, kids don't throw enough. Building arm strength takes time and...throwing around a ball diamond, or in the street,in the back yard, etc...kids don't throw enough.
I love throwing bp...I have thrown 200+ pitch bp's (flat ground) and of course not at full speed, but hard enough for an old guy (I can relate Will) and my arm has not ever gotten sore...can't say the same about my knees though...
quote:Originally posted by Coach Waltrip:quote:Originally posted by Will:quote:The problem arises when kids try to throw a curve without mastering the proper throwing technique for the other pitches.
Of course what is proper is a matter of debate as well.
Looking back(way back) we threw and threw and threw. I never had a sore arm and I was throwing BP into my late 50's(yes I am old but bear with me) Was I lucky? Who knows? all I know is that I threw a lot when I was younger.
That's right Will, I agree, kids don't throw enough. Building arm strength takes time and...throwing around a ball diamond, or in the street,in the back yard, etc...kids don't throw enough.
I love throwing bp...I have thrown 200+ pitch bp's (flat ground) and of course not at full speed, but hard enough for an old guy (I can relate Will) and my arm has not ever gotten sore...can't say the same about my knees though...
You threw, and threw and threw, but did you throw CB's? Or sliders? Probably not. My husband played youth baseball, but he claims that no one pitched at very young ages back then, it was all coach pitch, something that seems to be disappearing and giving way to more and more beginning at 8,9. I think that is the difference.
I am going to stand by what I have always stated, son started pitching at 8, if we had a do over, probably would be around 14.
quote:
You threw, and threw and threw, but did you throw CB's? Or sliders? Probably not. My husband played youth baseball, but he claims that no one pitched at very young ages back then, it was all coach pitch, something that seems to be disappearing and giving way to more and more beginning at 8,9. I think that is the difference.
I am going to stand by what I have always stated, son started pitching at 8, if we had a do over, probably would be around 14.
I'm not going to claim I threw at max effort...but, I do throw CB's, sinkers and changes because I think the boys need to see it in a practice so they can recognize it when it is being thrown in a game.
I want to clarify a point here...when I say 'throw' I mean throw and not pitch. These are two distinctive and seperate things. Throwing is on flat ground and pitching is off a mound, which causes much more stress to the arm.
My point is is that arm strength is about conditioning over a period of time. This occurs by throwing a baseball over and over. Can injuries still occur? Of course, but a sad fact remains that young kids don't throw enough. The lack of conditioning makes itself evident in the first week of tryouts every spring when after three days some of the boys arms are about to fall off.
Teaching a younster to throw a CB is tricky, but in my opinion necessary because they will try to throw it anyway. I have seen kids showing each other how to throw a CB using all sorts of freaky techniques. As a parent or coach do I want another 10, 11 or 12 year old showing my kid how to throw a CB? No, I don't, but that is my decision.
Kids love the curveball because it is effective. The problem is unless they are guided on when to use it they want to throw it all the time at the expense of a FB or change. Not good, as any good pitching instructor will tell a parent, the CB is only a good pitch if you have a good FB. The hardest thing I notice about the change is some kids don't like to throw it as much and therefore, must be encouraged to do so. However, it is a necessary pitch in a pitcher's arsenal.
Coach you hit on the main point of the discussion.
Conditioning is the key. I know you have seen it, we all have; there are kids that keep their arms in shape during the offseason, kids that do the throwing, bandwork and legwork needed to keep up their arms for the spring and those other kids that increased thumbstrength from the PS3/XBox360 but did little else.
Those are the kids I worry about when it comes to curveballs. Kids with conditioned arms can be taught to throw a curve and probably won't have any major problems but the casual player, the kid who maybe has enough strength for 30-40 pitches tops is the kid that risks injury simply because after that golden number is passed he starts trying to cheat.
In addition, I hate to say it, some of the best pitches are the ones that are thrown in the screwiest ways. If a 12 year old can get an extra 4 inches of drop on the ball by doing something mechanicaly wrong 9 times out of 10 that kid is going to try it. Twelve year olds don't think that injury will happen to them, they are indestructible at that age, or so they think. Out of shape arms with poor technique is a recipe for disaster.
Should a coach never let a kid throw a curve? No but each kid has to be evaluated to make sure that he not only can throw the ball but that he can throw it effectively without resorting to the arm contortions that lead to injury. Lets face it, most of us recreational coaches don't have that knowlege.
Conditioning is the key. I know you have seen it, we all have; there are kids that keep their arms in shape during the offseason, kids that do the throwing, bandwork and legwork needed to keep up their arms for the spring and those other kids that increased thumbstrength from the PS3/XBox360 but did little else.
Those are the kids I worry about when it comes to curveballs. Kids with conditioned arms can be taught to throw a curve and probably won't have any major problems but the casual player, the kid who maybe has enough strength for 30-40 pitches tops is the kid that risks injury simply because after that golden number is passed he starts trying to cheat.
In addition, I hate to say it, some of the best pitches are the ones that are thrown in the screwiest ways. If a 12 year old can get an extra 4 inches of drop on the ball by doing something mechanicaly wrong 9 times out of 10 that kid is going to try it. Twelve year olds don't think that injury will happen to them, they are indestructible at that age, or so they think. Out of shape arms with poor technique is a recipe for disaster.
Should a coach never let a kid throw a curve? No but each kid has to be evaluated to make sure that he not only can throw the ball but that he can throw it effectively without resorting to the arm contortions that lead to injury. Lets face it, most of us recreational coaches don't have that knowlege.
You can throw without pitching but you can't pitch without throwing.
You throw more it will eventually translate over to being able to pitch more - along with other factors that involve conditioning.
You throw more it will eventually translate over to being able to pitch more - along with other factors that involve conditioning.
Refer him to ASMI. If that doesnt do the trick, nothing you say will. Luck to you with your players and college career.
Every spring its the same old story. The players that condition and throw never complain of sore arms. The ones that dont are fine on day one. By day two they are hanging. By day three the icy hot breaks out. By day four they are asking to be held out of throwing drills.
The more you throw and condition to throw the more you can throw. The real problem is Kids do not throw enough and then try to throw too much. They come out for baseball in Feb and have been sitting on their rear ends since the fall. Sometimes since the summer.
Now lets talk about the freshman coming in. Most have never practiced baseball 6 days in a week. Most have never practiced four days in a week. They are on a full sized field for the first time for some. They are trying out trying to impress the coaches. They have never trained to throw everyday. They are toast very early in the process.
When you throw everyday and you are conditioned to throw everyday you build a strong healthy arm that can do just that. And it only gets stronger as the season goes along. When you dont your as good as your going to be on day one. And it only goes downhill from there.
Alot of todays kids play way more games. But it is fools gold once they reach hs. Play some train alot. All that game experience will not build a stronger arm make you faster or build more power at the plate. Train for the next level you are trying to obtain. Play because you love to play. Train so you can continue to play.
The more you throw and condition to throw the more you can throw. The real problem is Kids do not throw enough and then try to throw too much. They come out for baseball in Feb and have been sitting on their rear ends since the fall. Sometimes since the summer.
Now lets talk about the freshman coming in. Most have never practiced baseball 6 days in a week. Most have never practiced four days in a week. They are on a full sized field for the first time for some. They are trying out trying to impress the coaches. They have never trained to throw everyday. They are toast very early in the process.
When you throw everyday and you are conditioned to throw everyday you build a strong healthy arm that can do just that. And it only gets stronger as the season goes along. When you dont your as good as your going to be on day one. And it only goes downhill from there.
Alot of todays kids play way more games. But it is fools gold once they reach hs. Play some train alot. All that game experience will not build a stronger arm make you faster or build more power at the plate. Train for the next level you are trying to obtain. Play because you love to play. Train so you can continue to play.
When I was a kid LL was 10-12. A handful of 9's made it. The pitchers were the 12's. I didn't throw more than twelve innings of organized baseball until I was 12. At twelve I pitched about 100 innings. Now there's 8U to 12U with kids pitching 100 innings, maybe more each year.quote:My husband played youth baseball, but he claims that no one pitched at very young ages back then, it was all coach pitch, something that seems to be disappearing and giving way to more and more beginning at 8,9. I think that is the difference.
Babe Ruth was 13-15. 13's never pitched. I probably threw another 100 innings each year at 14 and 15. I entered high school with about 300 innings on my arm. A kid who came up through travel may have 800.
Not only did I hardly pitch until I was 12, I got a year off at 13. Kids now enter high school with more innings on their arm than I had when I graduated. But in the yard and at the park I threw and threw and threw building arm strength. Today's kids pitch too much and throw too little.
quote
Alot of todays kids play way more games. But it is fools gold once they reach hs. Play some train alot. All that game experience will not build a stronger arm make you faster or build more power at the plate. Train for the next level you are trying to obtain. Play because you love to play. Train so you can continue to play.
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i've said this for years and no one listens. they get hung up on playing 60-70 games. getting 3 or 4 AB and a few grounders/flys hit to them.
kids need to have more practice, double headers sat sun, then practice all week. i think it would serve them better.
Alot of todays kids play way more games. But it is fools gold once they reach hs. Play some train alot. All that game experience will not build a stronger arm make you faster or build more power at the plate. Train for the next level you are trying to obtain. Play because you love to play. Train so you can continue to play.
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i've said this for years and no one listens. they get hung up on playing 60-70 games. getting 3 or 4 AB and a few grounders/flys hit to them.
kids need to have more practice, double headers sat sun, then practice all week. i think it would serve them better.
20dad
What is even worse the kids do not warm up properly prior to a game, any and every game and at any age---you cannot make it work by driving up 15 minutes prior to the game and then go an play
We have our kids at the field ands hour and half to two hours prior to game time to get loose and prepare
Preparation is key for the baseball players
What is even worse the kids do not warm up properly prior to a game, any and every game and at any age---you cannot make it work by driving up 15 minutes prior to the game and then go an play
We have our kids at the field ands hour and half to two hours prior to game time to get loose and prepare
Preparation is key for the baseball players
Its amazing how much kids get better by working at the things that help them get better. For some reason some people believe that you can play yourself into a player. I believe you can work yourself into a posistion where you can be a player.
What happes is people start believeing that their kid is getting left behind. The other kids are playing on the select team and traveling all around playing in tourneys. They start feeling pressure to get in on this because they dont want their kid to get left behind.
How about spending three hours at the park working on fielding , hitting , proper throwing mechanics vs an entire weekend at the ball park getting 15 at bats a few ground ball a couple of fly balls and spending three four hundreds bucks a weekend on the road every single weekend?
I have thought for years if someone would start a baseball developmental team where they work out , work on fundementals , practice and then play one weekend a month they would be on to something. But everyone wants to go win that trophy. When I started putting the entire focus of our off season on getting bigger stronger faster that was when our program took a huge jump. And when the players bought into it low and behold we started getting guys drafted and into ACC schools. Amazing isnt it?
What happes is people start believeing that their kid is getting left behind. The other kids are playing on the select team and traveling all around playing in tourneys. They start feeling pressure to get in on this because they dont want their kid to get left behind.
How about spending three hours at the park working on fielding , hitting , proper throwing mechanics vs an entire weekend at the ball park getting 15 at bats a few ground ball a couple of fly balls and spending three four hundreds bucks a weekend on the road every single weekend?
I have thought for years if someone would start a baseball developmental team where they work out , work on fundementals , practice and then play one weekend a month they would be on to something. But everyone wants to go win that trophy. When I started putting the entire focus of our off season on getting bigger stronger faster that was when our program took a huge jump. And when the players bought into it low and behold we started getting guys drafted and into ACC schools. Amazing isnt it?
i agree coach, it cost's nothing but time.time well spent imo.
funny, they do the same thing in school,work on things then a test ......they don't test every day.
funny, they do the same thing in school,work on things then a test ......they don't test every day.
Coach May; great post. agree 100% about your 'development' team idea.
Great post CM, I agree and have always agreed 100%.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:My experience is the kids who learned the curve early benefitted due to the lack of number of hitters who could handle it. But it came at the expense of the change.
My son was one of those who threw the curveball early. Fortunately, he didn't have many innings before age 12, but from that point on he always worked on the curveball. It has now been graded as a plus pitch on the MLB scale but I credit his years of attempting to master the pitch for that.
RJM, you may be right about the curveball coming at the expense of a good change. Perhaps. Bum, Jr. finally has developed a solid changeup.. something he was lacking just a year or two ago. Maybe that was because he focused first on the fastball, and a close second on the curve. But one point here: If you don't have a breaking pitch, you probably won't get to the next level, unless you have a plus fastball. Fastball + changeup, 90% of the time, just won't cut it past high school. It is important to note that an effective curveball is essentially a changeup in disguise as the change of speeds is similar. On the contrary, an effective changeup is not a curveball in disguise.
There is one question that needs to be answered regarding the need for a 10-11 year old to throw a curveball. Why? I think the answer lies in our desire as parents and coaches to win even at the little league level. Many coaches allow kids at this age to throw curveballs because it gets hitters out. I think it is much more important to teach young kids how to pitch - spot the fastball and learn how to change speeds. And most important is to learn to throw srikes using good mechanics.
What happened to the days when 10 year olds playing 15-20 games in the summer was enough baseball for the year? I know of kids that have played as many as 90-100 games in one summer when they were 10 years old and this is with of roster of 12 players. That's a lot of pitches!
Contrary to what I have read in some of the posts in this thread, it is not necessary to learn to throw a curveball at 10 years old to have a quality curveball in high school and college. I am the father of a division 1 pitcher in the south that received a scholarhip primarily because he possesses an exceptional curveball. I coached him in little leagues and he was not allowed to throw a curveball until he was 13 years old and even then it was limited.
JH, I recommend that you stay true to yourself and teach young kids 8-12 years old the proper mechanics of pitching and leave the curveball out of the mix.
What happened to the days when 10 year olds playing 15-20 games in the summer was enough baseball for the year? I know of kids that have played as many as 90-100 games in one summer when they were 10 years old and this is with of roster of 12 players. That's a lot of pitches!
Contrary to what I have read in some of the posts in this thread, it is not necessary to learn to throw a curveball at 10 years old to have a quality curveball in high school and college. I am the father of a division 1 pitcher in the south that received a scholarhip primarily because he possesses an exceptional curveball. I coached him in little leagues and he was not allowed to throw a curveball until he was 13 years old and even then it was limited.
JH, I recommend that you stay true to yourself and teach young kids 8-12 years old the proper mechanics of pitching and leave the curveball out of the mix.
JH,
I know you have gotten a lot of replies, which is great about this site.
My son is a LH pitcher, and has been going to the same pitching coach since he was 10 (he is 14 now). When he started with his instructor, he did not need a lot of mechanics adjusting either, so here is how his instructor approached it.
Chris coaches what he believes. If I question something, he has a good explanation for his belief. I can either choose to agree or disagree.
He does not care for young pitchers throwing CB's either so he did 2 things:
1) He taught my son how to throw a really good change and explained the rationale about it's use in conjunction with a FB.
2) At 12, he worked with him a little on his CB so that if it did get called, he would do it correctly. (I believe it can be used successfully if done mechanically correct and the pitcher understands the use of it, which is rare at the younger ages.).
One of my son's teammates from last year had TJ surgery by Dr. Andrews this past summer, at age 13. It was not due to CB's but mechanics. People always assume that the CB is the damaging piece to the arm and growth plates are the only thing that are at stake, but mechanics can have as much to do with it as the type of pitch.
You will be more respected by coaching what you believe is fundamentally correct, than how many kids you instruct. I realize that there is a direct correlation between the money you make and the kids you instruct, but in the long run, you will be more successful instructor by staying with what you believe.
Also you will find, you will lose more clients because your personalities don't mesh, than you will by being stern on what you teach.
Lastly, remember that some people that come to you won't really be realistic about where their kid is until they get a little older and start seeing how their flaws are taken advantage of. They may come back when the kid no longer has success at 13 or 14.
Good luck with your instruction.
I know you have gotten a lot of replies, which is great about this site.
My son is a LH pitcher, and has been going to the same pitching coach since he was 10 (he is 14 now). When he started with his instructor, he did not need a lot of mechanics adjusting either, so here is how his instructor approached it.
Chris coaches what he believes. If I question something, he has a good explanation for his belief. I can either choose to agree or disagree.
He does not care for young pitchers throwing CB's either so he did 2 things:
1) He taught my son how to throw a really good change and explained the rationale about it's use in conjunction with a FB.
2) At 12, he worked with him a little on his CB so that if it did get called, he would do it correctly. (I believe it can be used successfully if done mechanically correct and the pitcher understands the use of it, which is rare at the younger ages.).
One of my son's teammates from last year had TJ surgery by Dr. Andrews this past summer, at age 13. It was not due to CB's but mechanics. People always assume that the CB is the damaging piece to the arm and growth plates are the only thing that are at stake, but mechanics can have as much to do with it as the type of pitch.
You will be more respected by coaching what you believe is fundamentally correct, than how many kids you instruct. I realize that there is a direct correlation between the money you make and the kids you instruct, but in the long run, you will be more successful instructor by staying with what you believe.
Also you will find, you will lose more clients because your personalities don't mesh, than you will by being stern on what you teach.
Lastly, remember that some people that come to you won't really be realistic about where their kid is until they get a little older and start seeing how their flaws are taken advantage of. They may come back when the kid no longer has success at 13 or 14.
Good luck with your instruction.