Parents are getting weird

2016Dad,

 

To an extent I agree, but I think you have to look a little deeper.  It appears your HS Program (freshmen, JV and Varsity) is not setting the right expectations.   That is the coaches and AD's job.  I've seen it work both ways with two different high school programs (where I was a parent).   In my experience, coaches are best served long term by drawing a line in the sand, and telling parents this is the way things will be run....and enforce it.  I know it is easier said than done, but you will have chaos if you don't (and I've seen that too!).  JMO.

I'm trying to stay out of the stands myself... too many complainers.

 

During the JV fall, there was one father who would go on and on about his kid never getting a shot to pitch. Kid is a 5'3, 120 lb lefty who may hit 60 on the gun - but you know, "He has great movement".

 

He finally got a shot to get on the mound, and the first pitch he threw was hit over the fence, across the street, over another fence, and ended up on a runway of an airfield.

 

I don't know if the dad has started up again this spring, but like I said - I'm trying to stay out of the stands.

The parents may not get it, but the kids do. They are the ones at practice every day. They know who can play, and who can not.  And if they are in the second group, they know what's required to be in the first.   My experience is not nearly as broad as many on here, but from what I have seen there is a lot of self-selection that happens during the HS years.  We have a school of 1600 kids, and we're a pretty decent baseball school, but the coaches end up cutting very few players each year. The kids who need to be cut usually cut themselves.

Many high schools in So Cal have no-cut policies for Freshman and Sophomores.  The fees from these extra players helps fund the program.  A side effect seems to be a continued sense of entitlement and grief, at least for 2 years.  None of these players or parents ever get near the varsity field.  By junior year only the legitimate players remain.

I almost always sat well down the line for HS baseball games.  It was peaceful and enjoyable down there. 

At our home field, about 20' past 1B the fence is 4' so I like to watch (all about the unobstructed view). Have to be careful not to get too loud as that is also the visitors side and I try hard not to be one of "those parents."

2016 ... I saw parents of 14u studs not understand the next step wasn't starting on varsity. You should have seen the look on one jv parent when I told her last years conference winner only graduated two key players. There was only one position and one rotation spot available. And it wasn't her son's position even though he hit well on jv. She fumed all season while her son filled a spot on the end of the varsity bench as a junior. He had once been a LL all star stud. Another kid won a starting position two consecutive years and was out of the lineup within four games. His dad was fun to be near at games. <--- sarcasm

It's one reason I always volunteer to help out in concession stand. I don't have to deal w drama and I can see the game from there. You must remember also that for many HS is the first time kids r not dealing w daddy ball. Some have been on teams only coached by dad, or dad of a friend and they may have played because of it.

me too, up on a hill in a lawn chair,   I found that there is a select group of parents who all seem to have kids that play summer ball on comp teams that have kind of migrated into this area over the past few seasons...............there is a reason why !!

 

That's what kills me.  So many parents of freshman expecting their kid to start at the varsity level.  Shoot - the varsity coach here doesn't even look at freshman - only sophomores, junior and seniors. Not many sophomore make varsity either.   Sophomores are lucky in a way - if they don't make varsity they can still drop down to JV.  Not so for the juniors and seniors - if they don't make the squad, they are done.

 

These parents would be in shock at the college level.  During the fall season of my son's first year there was 55 trying to make squad.  Only 35 would end up on the team.  I felt fortunate my son survived the process and made the spring team.

 

My son has long since graduated (2012), but we still go to some HS games.  We usually sit near the stands, but if the parents start getting carried away, I usually meander down the outfield line - much more pleasant to watch the game from there.

When Jr. was in 7th and 8th grade we went to as many of the Frosh and JV games as possible. It allowed us to gauge where we were and where we needed to be to be competitive at our HS which is a top 5A program in Texas. I tried to tell other parents that they should go and they blew me off. Now their kids aren't playing.

 

A kid we knew made the Freshman team last year and we were kind of surprised since we knew he wasn't a very good player. After we went to a few games, we understood. Unless we were up 10 runs, he never saw the field. There is no "equal time" - the coach wants to win games and he's only going to put guys on the field he thinks can do that. You want to play? Get better.he won't. I just hope Jr. keeps working hard - if he doesn't he won't be out there.

 2lefties, sometimes you just need to be around people that understand real baseball.This is the same place I go so I can talk a little and nobody gets their feelings hurt.

I told my wife to never sit in the stands. After one game in the stands she knew why. I always watched my sons games away from everyone else. I wanted to watch the game is what I told people. It can be just as crazy at the college level. You will find that birds of a feather flock together at all levels of the game.

This isn't exactly a new phenomena - it's been this way for quite a while, so perhaps for the OP it's "new", but certainly it's not a "getting weird"...  I think too many have fallen off the deep end with their expectations.  Try going to your son's game as an umpire - it gets even worse with parents coming up to you for explanations and what would you call, but I wouldn't miss going because of those 'weird parents'.  Perhaps if enough people had the [base]balls to tell them to get a clue and have a reality check, everyone could enjoy the game.

Funny that this topic came up today.  I was at my kids (frosh) last HS basketball game of the season last night.  My son had a 101 degree fever and could not make it to the game.  It killed him as we were playing the only team we lost to all season.  We were sitting in 2nd place with 1 loss to this team.  If we won we would end the season with a tie for 1st.  We lost in triple OT on a half court buzzer beater shot.

 

As my son was not there I was not with the wife who I normally sit with.  Our little group at the games consists of me, my wife, the Varsity coaches wife (her son is a frosh) and another mom who's husband travels a lot overseas and does not always make the games.  We tend to sit away from the rest of the parents.  Anyway as my son was not playing my wife was not there.  Instead I sat down by some of the fathers for the 1st period.  Lots of coaching, ref'ing and complaining going on with this group.  I noticed the varsity coach (whom I am friends outside of basketball with) sitting down lower in the stands next to the Varsity coach from the other team.  I moved myself down there.  As I walked up they drew me in to their topic of discussion....The parents who sit in the stands and think they know everything.  Interesting thing is they never really dished on anyone.  I think the most unkind comment they made was, its a hell of a lot easier to sit up there and criticize then it is to sit down here and coach.

 

Though I was already removing myself from the parents it really hit me at that moment.  The coaches definitely know who the "problem" parents are.  Im sure its going to factor into their player decisions as the kids move forward with their HS careers.  As of last night I have also decided to make sure I sit very far away from the parents.

Last year, I met the dad of a freshman j.v. kid who is primarily a "pitcher". My son last season was a junior and is a "hitter". Our pitchers all graduated so we are looking at pitching by committee this season. My son started pitching this summer and is now going to be a pitcher in some capacity this season as a senior. Hopefully, he'll do well, but who knows.

 

The dad of the pitcher was always cool last year and chatty, but this year, he is noticeably aggravated. I think he was counting on his kid pitching on varsity and didn't anticipate a senior who had never pitched before getting innings. There's also a freshman that he considers a step below his son who has gotten more looks in our two scrimmages so far.

 

This guy is still chatty, but his tone has changed. I can sense that he's mad about the freshman, and the un-experienced senior. Both throw harder, and both are much quicker in their deliveries than his son.

 

Now, he's gotten weird on me.

 

Sometimes I try and follow the advice I give my son.  From an early age, I have told him "Stay away from crazy people.  They are easy to spot."  As he has gotten older, I still say it.  I think it has meant something different to him through the years. 

 

For me, it means move down the fence or watch from the outfield.

It is strange how parents tend to project talent, better than the coaches (sarcasm).

 

BFS, Jr.'s Varsity coach sent me an email in December letting me know his plan with him.  Most parents knew he would be on varsity, however most coaches know how parents are, and wanted to script a plan that would appear he was not just handed the ball on day one.  His plan was to have him play on both JV, and V during the first few scrimmages, and first few non-district games.  The plan was to have him show his ability against both levels, and before any of the belly aching started, he would have "earned" his spot in the eyes of the parents.

 

After his second scrimmage, the HC saw me gathering my stuff after a game, and said - "scratch my original game plan, he's shown me all he needs to show, the parents will either welcome the addition, or just have to deal with it". 

 

It made me realize that coaches deal with a lot of dynamics in coaching HS baseball, and they are very aware of the attitudes, sensitivities, and expectations of parents.  There are kids that are juniors, and seniors that will lose many innings to BFS, Jr. this season, and I am sure their parents are not pleased about that.  I have made it a point to take my own chair, and sit alone during games.  Slowly, parents are warming up, and I suspect as the season goes by, they will welcome the added lefty to the rotation.....or they may not.  Here is the interesting thing, his teammates have welcomed him with open arms, and while there is still some hierarchy with upper classman, and under classman, his teammates have no problem with him coming up to the plate with the game on the line, and certainly look forward to having him on the mound late with the game on the line. 

My 2013 started high school with a loaded freshman class. Opening day five freshman started for the JV team. All the disgruntled sophomore dads sat down the line and would high five each other each time a freshman would fail. Coaches, other teams fans and all the players saw this.

 

None of the disgruntled dads saw their boys have a successful high school career. I think only one every made it to varsity and that was as a PO, while of the five freshman, four had very good careers and one was lost to injury.   

I agree. Kids (certainly mine) aren't great communicators when it comes to what's going on between kids and coaches. Parents show up to a game without knowing how things went in practice the week before.

 

I thought parents sticking up for their kids ended (or should have) when HS began. But man, when they see signs their kid isn't playing or is falling behind they go off. I spent last season with these same parents and all was fine. Now at JV the writing is on the wall that fewer and fewer will advance.

       



Why I always sat in what I'd call the "South Forty"... Parents would come ask me the score and even the inning. Didn't want caught up in the drama, gossip, AND thee "That's ok Johnny, you'll get it next time" mentality from Moms, or even Coaches saying "Let's go Jimmy...you can do this..." (Might as well announce, that this kid can't hit!)...I wanted to actually watch the games! Felt kinda bad, leaving my Seventy + Mom in the stands... But, God love her, she fit right in, and knew everyone by names, their families life histories, and hugged everyone hello and goodbye! My Dad sat with me most of the time, while my husband hugged the fence lines.

That's terrible.  I hope I never witness something like that.

The worst kind of parents.  Cheering when another kid fails.  This really gets me.  I hate it even when the other teams cheer when a kid makes a mistake.  I was always taught that through the college level these kids are playing because they love the game and are not making money.  For that reason you cheer the positive and ignore the negative.  

Im the kind of person that would say something to these parents.  In our basketball game last night we had a father start yelling very loudly and whistling every time one our kids went to the line.  I called him out on it. His excuse, "its part of the game".  I had to point out to him that he was the only one in the gym doing it.

One thing I've figured out is there are no perfect parents out there and of course I include myself in the imperfect parents club.

 

There are ways to un-weird yourself.  Here are something's I did.  Rather than sit down the right field line, I stood right by the dugout where all the players were and near the concession stand.  I didn't feel like I needed to hide myself or shield myself from what people said.  I've heard hurtful things against the coaches, my son, and other players on the team frankly.  I was not going to let others rob me of joy.  Joy and gratefulness that my son was born healthy and was even on the team.  Joy that I was born in a free country where people were allowed to say what ever they wanted to.  Joy that our military sacrificed their lives so that I could feel that way.  Joy that I could leave work early on a beautiful spring day and watch a high school baseball game.

 

One thing I did was to never root for my son.  Him and I had a secret code where if he did something good, I would point at him and he would point back.  No one ever noticed this.  We did this little routine in college and still do it in the pros.  Unless someone asks me, nobody knows that he is my son.  The opposite of never rooting for my son was to root with all my soul for every other kid on the team.  I tried to encourage them.  I figured if they did good, that would be good for my son and that turned out to be true.  It increased my joy to root for them.  There is no need to hide from the group in my opinion.  God knows whose heart is good and He will provide opportunities to those who do not lose faith in Him.   

I loves this CD!!

 

I don't have a problem with people rooting for their kids as long as they are rooting for everyone just the same.  That includes the kid who is playing for your son that day or who might be playing instead of your son.

I get odd looks all the time because I still cheer for my son's friends, former travel teammates, and summer teammates regardless if they are on the other team. 

 

 

 

I learned recently that all of the junior year softball players at my son's high school were cut due to an influx of many more talented freshman girls. So, next season, there will be no seniors on the softball team. Wow. Looking at it from the outside that seems kind of rough,but if the coach is keeping the best players, then good for him I guess.

 

 

Agreed JCG. At our school, all the kids know who is who. They have played against each other for years in Rec league and tried out for some of the same summer teams.

For example, when they were trying out last year for frosh. The coach told the kids to line up in the position they wanted to compete for. One kid was at shortstop. They all knew to stay away from that position if they wanted to play.They know.

 

My wife and I always talk about staying away from the talkers.It can get toxic.

ClevelandDad, I'll include myself in the not so perfect parent section as well.  I do my best to be cordial and speak kindly of most others.  I do my best to root for all of the players but, to be honest, there is one I despise.  The wife and I sit in our lawn chairs somewhere along the backstop and don't say much once the game goes on and we never mention our daughter's name.  On the other hand, there are some parents that can't be described other than, "caustic,"  On my child's first tournament another parent came up to me and asked which parents needed to be avoided.  I used the term "caustic" and he chuckled.

 

I also read the comments about sitting beyond the OF.  I suppose there are a couple of types of parents that sit there but in my experience most of those doing that have been making statements to the coach.  I know that is the case now on my daughter's team.  They are not happy.  I guess there can be all kinds of reasons to also sit out there.  

Awesome post CD it speaks for the man that you are.

Softball is different. Girls physically mature sooner. When my daughter was a freshman the coach started five freshmen. The team went from last to first. The freshman pitcher was on her way to becoming a D1 stud. The pitcher, catcher, shortstop, first baseman and centerfielder (my daughter) were freshmen. All the key positions. The next year three more freshmen started. The next year another freshman started. They all went on to college ball.

 

The high school coach inherited a team that had gone 4-18 the previous year and had lost 32 in a row over two seasons. He approached parents at age eleven, got us to pull our kids from rec ball into ASA travel and waited for this class of kids to develop.

 

From the 7th grade team through senior year the five freshmen (my daughter's class) went 80-4 in regular season games.

CD ... I almost never cheered for my son. I was more likely to cheer for everyone else. I was the analytic fan who sat there quietly analyzing everything and trying to think one step ahead of the game. I will admit to yelling "that's outta here" on his first varsity homer as a soph.

 

We had two factions at our high school games. The parents from the mediocre Ripken program never stopped being jealous of the very successful LL program. They thought there was bias towards the LL in who played varsity ball, which was absurd. The LL had better players. Besides, high school junior year (when most kids made varsity) was five years post LL/Ripken. Those of us from the LL program hadn't given LL a thought for years.

 

I spent a lot of time in dugouts coaching. When I got to high school and tried sitting in the stands I came to realize how stupid coaches are. I didn't know I was stupid until then. I moved down the RF line. 

Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way in a 13U travel tournament.  The HC wife was sitting a couple of rows in front of me and some parents were questioning his decision in unflattering terms about a certain kid being left in the game and I had to open my big mouth to particpate.  I felt like a heel after she got up and walked off.  I actually apologized to the coach afterwards. 

 

Not following ya, I think we're on the same page,  sit where I do b/c these parents do understand baseball b/c they know it's a grind and for most summer ball levels are significantly better at least where we're at anyway than HS.  HS is a time for these kids to enjoy THEIR time, I relax a bit actually, lawn chairs on a sunny April/May day in the mid-west is a blessing.   I don't get to worked up about who and where a kid plays and remain objective as a parent about my kids ability.  I cheer for all kids b/c for some it's as good as it gets and so do these other parents that hang out in this area.  I think you have to look at it in the context of how large a high school your in and what type of character or characters you have as parents as to where you sit. I just don't want to be associated with that type of stuff.

 

Most that hang around this forum have kids that have been there and done that or are trying to learn what they need to to help their kid get to college if it within the players ability.  My kid may not see much time on the field as a Jr.  I believe he'll make this team but his upper classmen will hold these spots as they should.  It's a talented group and one of the better ones in the state. D1, D2 and juco kids already commited and along with himself and another couple of Jrs, they are getting attention as well but I don't know how things will play out other than to say I have seen the bleacher show before.  There will be some upset parents in his class that won't get it. If it's not at your school, sit there, at times I have wondered down to the metal bleachers to watch a good pitcher work regardless of what side.

 

    I want him to enjoy the ride this year regardless of how much time he gets, It's HIS HS team and my job as a parent and former coach it to let him know I support him and HIS team regardless of a parents feelings. 

I'll say this as a high school coach and is likely true at any amateur level. There is a good chance that anything bad about a player, coaches or the program in general said by a parent usually makes it's way to the coach.

I don't think cheering for competition would go over so well w our coach, and I would agree. Yes, u may know kids but I wouldn't be cheering out loud for them-text them or talk to them after game. If my son were pitching and your near me and yell nice hit to opposing player because u know him I would prob have a few words for u. I consider it team loyalty issue. 

I agree it's just something you shouldn't do. Plenty of time to tell him good game after or a text. The odd looks won't stop if you keep doing it. 

That college "flock" was a very fun one, wasn't it, Coach May? I still chuckle to myself at times when I recall some of the funny things that were said by fellow "fence birds."