Parents that are involved

Great question.

I think parental involvement as part of the support apparatus to enable and facilitate a player's development is necessary and a good thing.

IMHO, I think where the negative connotations come is when it involves the management of the team. If the parents are directly involved in the coaching of the team, there can "sometimes" be an obvious conflict of interest there. Sometimes people wonder if the best players are playing or is the whole thing set up for the benefit of a select few. At the higher levels in high school, when parents are usually no longer directly involved, some may see involvement with the coaches as "political" pressure in trying to influence the management of the team. I guess in my mind parental involvement can mean more than one thing and can have negative and/or positive implications.

For me "parental involvement" takes on the bad connotation when it gets to HS ball where many parents seem to think they should be involved to the same extent they were in pre HS---

I agree that in youth league levels "parental involvement" is required or there would be no youth leagues because all the work is basically volunteer at the 13/14 under levels.

Parental involvement, when my son was younger, meant helping get the fields in shape, helping with fundraising activities, doing the announcements from the press box, cheering for everybody on the team and helping in whatever ways the vollunteer coaches and league administrators needed.

Parental involvement from jr high on up has meant folks getting in the coach's ear about who makes the team, who gets playing time and in what positions, yelling at officials, bad mouthing players on the same team to make one kid sound like he's better than another.

Instead of parental involvement being positive and helpful, its become largely negative and nobody needs that - not the coaches and certainly not the players. Granted the negative usually comes from only a handful of folks, but they give the rest of us a bad name. Its really unfortunate.

Amen knmom ! And it will never ever change just seems to get worse the older the kids get.....

While there are problems, I can tell you that at our high school, the last two saturdays has been filled with a large group of parents cleaning, mowing, raking, painting, putting up windscreen and doing everything necessary to get the place ready for the season. . .and our first home game isn't for 3 weeks!

Parental involvement can be positive, even at the high school level. However, just like the upperclassmen teach the freshman the dedication that is required to play ball at a high level, the parents of the older players have to make it clear to the parents of the younger players that "involvement" means making sure that our boys have what they need to play, not whining about playing time. It's not always going to work perfectly, but it can work!

Parental involvement is positive. It is amazing to me a HS coach wants you to pay him money, in some cases lots of money. Give him your kid and let him do whatever he wants to do and you should have no input. College is different your kid is old enough to make their own decisions. HS you are still responsible. The arrogance of a HS coach that would think they can do whatever they want without any oversite is amazing to me. Lets face it they make a living teaching Drivers Education or History. Nothing wrong with that but they don't make a living teaching baseball or coaching baseball. How many HS coaches to you think a pro scout listens too, very few? As I have posted here before my brother-in-law is a professional scout and former college player. (He was a little too slow for the pros). He thinks most HS coaches he deals with are jokes. Most HS coaches I deal with didn't even play baseball in College. They have little more experience than me. A full grown college kid will not take what a HS kid has to take and the coaches know that. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBLITY TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR KIDS UNTIL THEY LEAVE YOUR HOME.

Do you compain if your laundry comes back from the cleaners with spots? If you do and you don't expect excellence from a HS coach who is having a great impact on your kids, You are afraid he will cut your kid and you have no spine, or your priorities are wrong.

Let me add in most cases the school board pickes your school. Unless you move or send your kid to a private school. Your only input is with the coach. Your son will pick his college so the responsiblilty is on him. In HS the responsibility is on you.

Parental involvement: good. Parental meddling: bad.

Parental support: good. Parental pushing: bad.

Parental encouragement: good. Parental 'evaluation': bad.

Parental wishing: good. Parental whining: bad.

Parental acceptance: good. Parental denial: bad.

Parents letting their kids be who they are: good. Parents living their lives vicariously through their children: bad.

its,

Please define the terms you listed in your post.
What is meddling?
What is pushing?
Those are subjective terms.
If my son gets a road trip room assignment with a kid I don't approve of, you can be sure I will have him ask the coach to be moved. If he isn't moved I ask the coach myself.

quote:

How many HS coaches to you think a pro scout listens too, very few? As I have posted here before my brother-in-law is a professional scout and former college player. (He was a little too slow for the pros). He thinks most HS coaches he deals with are jokes.

Then dont deal with them. Just ask the parent.

You have just insulted a lot of baseball people who do a good job. I did it for 25 years and for what it was worth I am no joke.

I was going to provide some generalized opinions, but Its did a great job.
Each and every situation may call for different action, but in general, I like what Its wrote.

Meddling is getting involved with your kid's situation despite the fact that you have entrusted both him and the coaches and teachers around him to evaluate any given situation and to act appropriatly. My definition of "meddling" entails a sense that you as a parent always has to be 'right' and that your judgement is better than everyone else's. It's kind of a 'telling' rather than 'asking' attitude.

Pushing?: When you see that it's not in your kid's heart to be doing something that he really does not want to be doing and that you have more drive than he has, that's pushing. The extraneous things in life that we give more importance to than the kid that's doing "our" thing.

Those are my definitions. For me.

Will,

For the most part he does. He attends the major showcase type events. He visits high schools just to show interest to the player and their parents. Usually he will go to the game, tell the parent he is there, speak to the player, stay one or two innings and move on to the next game. There is not enough time to go to HS games. At our HS game Saturday, there were 4 pro-scouts in attendance, all to see one player. They talked to the parent spoke to the player, identified themselves to the coach and stayed one inning, he was the three hitter or they may have stayed two innings. Through my brother-in-law I do get more opportunity to talk to the scouts than most, so I did take the opportunity to recommend they try to get a look at two players on the opposing team, both pitchers the one they saw sat around 88-89 for the three outs they saw. The other was stuck on first base as he is a lefty ( he can hit the high 80s low 90s also) and wasn't scheduled to pitch that day. So they got the kids names from me, not their HS coach.

itsagreatgame:

That was a great post.

I truly try to stay in your left column at all times with all of my children...but I will admit to drifting off into the right side column on occasion...it's tough not to get involved, sometimes negatively, when you think your child is not getting a fair shake.

Some parents can be found spending their time solely in your left column...they're to be applauded.

On the other hand, some parents are constantly in your right side column...creating all sorts of problems for everyone...including their own child.



Regarding the sweeping comment about the competency of HS coaches...the person that made that denunciation certainly has not met the coaches that post regularly on this site. There is no question that he has probably run into some stinkers along the way...they do exist. Common sense should easily lead anyone to understand that most HS coaches are good, decent, and competent. I'm not saying they are perfect...who is?

Broad, all inclusive, labels are almost never correct when it comes to describing people. I truly wish that the person that thinks so negatively of all HS coaches will realize that his thinking is incorrect...in my opinion he will grow and become more successful if he comes to this realization.

If there is a high school left-handed pitcher hitting high 80's/low 90's you can bet the scouts won't need much parental or coaching guidence finding him.

gotwood: It's really hard not to drift when you love your children as much you do. Hopefully that shows when we drift. Otherwise, we just look like fools a lot of the time.

its,

The Nationals had contacted the lefty. The scouts at the game had not. I didn't say I discovered him. I said I mentioned him to them while they were there. They thanked me for bringing it up as they had heard of him but didn't know where he went to school.

dad: Wasn't implying that you said you discovered him - just saying that the scouts will find those kinds of players regardless.

It's commendable that you would bring those players to anyone's attention. More parents should do that.

By the way, does anyone know if Alex Smith is still with the Nationals organization?

This is a good question. When your child starts his baseball career he is at the mercy of volunteer coaches with varying degrees of experience.
I don't know how parents cannot be envolved at this point.
It may be as simple as playing catch or pitching to your would-be slugger or it may invole an accumulation of knowledge that may suppliment the "coaching" he is getting at the LL practice.
If you have any athletic experience you can't help but develope opinions about how and what things should be done.
So maybe you coach yourself.
Now there's alot more information required! Once again you either do with what you know or seek out knowledge from those that have experience.
If you seek out info you develope OPINIONS and put them into practice.
Now you shuffle your novice to the high school program. Having done your best to prepare him for the more competitive sports world.
You find that the program does this and not that, and maybe in complete opposition to ideas that you've accepted and put into practice with your kid. Whoops!
Now you see his performance drop off through the season as he moves further from the programs that you've worked with him to develope. And your kid is smart enough to have an opinion of his own. These conflicts of practice methods serve only to diminish the respect my kid has for his coach. Big problem.
You haven't even said a word to anybody about these issues and yet you are envolved.
So where do you go from here? Start Over?
Rollerman

In today’s world of sports “parental involvement” definitely has a negative connotation. It seems every week somewhere in amateur sports, you see a news report were a parent has crossed the line.

I read an article one time that characterized today’s generation of mom and dad’s as “helicopter parents” constantly hovering over their children. Is this a good thing or bad?

After reading this thread for some reason I thought back so long ago (1970’s) when I played ball in high school. I can’t remember one time or even a hint when my parents would question a coach’s decision. They went to every game cheered me on. I remember one time I thought I should be playing more and expressed this to my dad, his answer “go talk to the coach”.

Granted this was a different time, they could not afford $200 dollar gloves, $300 dollar bats and $2000 dollar summer travel teams. IMO here lays the problem. The time and financial commitment in today’s youth sports was unheard of years ago. I believe parents today after making this investment feel they are entitled to have a say in the future of their Childs sports career. Is this good or bad? Ask most parents and they will tell you if I don’t look after my kid who will. Ask coaches, umpires and youth administrators today and they will tell you parents are getting out of hand. One example, in our local youth league my son graduated from two years ago, the umpires are asking for double there usual game pay, for some it’s just not worth it.

Coaching for many years, I’ve seen the good of “parental involvement” building baseball fields, dedicated coaches, and fund raisers, but I have also seen the bad when a few parents try to inject there will on decisions that should be left to others.

Let me give you two specific examples of how I personally involve myself. I don't recommend you do it, you have to decide on your own.

1. I do make sure the coach understands who I want my child rooming with. We go to a large school and all parents do not have the same rules for their kids as I do.
For example: Our coach lets kids who get inhouse-suspension, miss practice,show-up 20 minutes before game time, get caught smoking on school property, and who get duis start, if he thinks it will help him win. I happen to think if a youth drinks and smokes they will also smoke pot, so I don't want my son to be around them if and when they get caught. I don't tell the coach who to play where, when or why, but I do make sure my son is not assigned to stay in the same motel room with these players. I do not tell the coach who he cannot stay with I simply tell the coach who I prefer he stays with. If the coach can't figure out my preferences himself he can ask me why.

Let me add if my kid gets in trouble in or out of school, or simply doesn't make the grades I think he should it will not be up to the coach to decide if he plays or not.

2. Coach told all players at start of season to quit taking lessons from professional coaches. My son goes to a pitching coach who actually has a world series ring. I will not stop sending him to that coach as we do not have a pitching coach at our HS, and our coach never played an inning in college, not sure he was even a starter in HS.

quote:

Originally posted by dad4boys:


2. Coach told all players at start of season to quit taking lessons from professional coaches. My son goes to a pitching coach who actually has a world series ring. I will not stop sending him to that coach as we do not have a pitching coach at our HS, and our coach never played an inning in college, not sure he was even a starter in HS.

Are you sure that this is the Coach's rule? In Illinois, this is a state rule and your team will have to forfeit any and all games your son participates in if it is a state rule.

Further, people's qualifications to coach are sometimes misleading. Some of those that were the most successful are the most ignorant about how they achieved success. Others never played the game at a high level and yet, really know the game. Something to think about.


Per this thread's discussion:

I have great parents who are active and yet, stay out of the way when it comes to coaching the game. We unloaded and distributed 4 semitruck loads of chat rock on our warning track and various other places this weekend. During that entire time, never was any son's position on the team discussed. We moved dirt on the infield, edged and replaced sod, and did various other "projects." Sunday, a couple of hard chargers showed up to help me finish the work. In between all of this, the kids had a 4 1/2 hour practice. This type of parent involvement is a major reason why our program is successful. JMHO!

Being involved is great until it turns into being a pest. Now everyone has to figure out where that change takes place.

Unless it's a matter of health and safety....we stay out of it.....

There are always requests from Coach, Booster people, etc....to help.....but it's all peripheral assistance....as it should be....

B25,

It is the coach's rule.
Here is the AHSAA Rule:
Outside Participation Rule - A student who is a member of any school athletic team (grades 7-12) may not participate (includes practice) on a non-school team in the same sport during the school season of that sport. Also, a member of any school athletic team may not participate in an outside sport activity in the same sport during the school season of that sport.

Private individual instruction is not considered an outside sports activity. A team's season begins the day of that team's first contest and ends when that team's season has been completed.

A student who violates this rule becomes ineligible to compete on that school team or in that school sports activity for the remainder of that school season. Any student who participates on an outside team after the school sport season begins is ineligible to join that school team for the remainder of the season.


And, I'll take my chances with a pitcher who has at least thrown in a professional game learning a little from their professional pitching coach. You think Smoltz learned anything from Leo?

I'm like many people in that I've seen a variety of situations as a parent of a ball player, and as a LL coach ranging from parents that were wonderful cheerleaders to those that thought their 10 yearold was the next Roger Clemens and insisted on calling pitches from their lawn chair in right field.

With my son set to graduate this year, I'm certainly more circumspect about it all now ... plus more grey hair. I'm happy that my son is fortunate to have some fabulous high school coaches and club coaches that not only teach the game well, but also have standout character and values. This certainly makes it easier as a parent to keep my 'involvement' to volunteer work, cheering, and just making sure my son is taking care of the 'good housekeeping' items at home like grades, physical health, overall priorities in life, family, etc. I see my job as providing the necessary support for my son to pursue his passion, to help put things in perspective when necessary as a sounding board and mentor, and to make sure he accepts personal responsibility for his own future. Sure, I'll talk ball with my son, but only about the game in general, his perspective/observations, or an occasional small comment on something mechanical/technical that I might notice and I'll direct him to a photo or video where he can draw his own conclusions. Any 'coaching' is strictly between him and his coaches. Any conversation about team makeup, positions, strategy, etc., is very strictly just between him and his coaches. I view that as off-limits for me.

I think the degree anyone sees or experiences parental 'involvement' that moves into 'meddling' depends a lot on the values and roles established by the coaches. If the coach sets strong values, establishes clear roles, and communicates clearly and firmly to parents what those roles are and the expectations of the coaches, players, and parents ... there's little room for meddling. Even if there's a parent that's from the Todd Marinovich genepool, it just falls on deaf ears because the roles and lines of communication are clearly set out. Clearly, if a coach has a very narrow view of getting the next win and puts an injured player at risk, the player needs to stand up for himself, and the parent's responsibility is to take the 'longer view' and intervene as a last resort, but that goes back to the values item. A coach with solid values would never put a player in that position and then what happens on the field is strictly between the player and coach. A coach that is weak on values and setting expectations will sometimes cross ethical lines that demand parental involvement, or actually may invite meddling ... that can then become the rule of engagement followed by other parents.

My own personal experience: we've been very fortunate through the whole club and HS experience that my son's always had extraordinary coaches both on the technical and character side of the equation. His HS coaches are exceptional and completely tied into supporting our son in his dream of playing baseball at the next level. I will occasionally talk ball with our HS coach just for fun, but only from the perspective of the overall game and with respect to our roles, never about kids, never about strategy or player roles ... just fun technical talk about the game. We both respect each others roles.

We've only had one bad experience back at the U14 'club' level, and it came down to an ethics issue with that individual club coach that was also the JV coach (now formerly) back at that time. We had communicated a prior commitment four months in advance that would conflict with All-Star play. The coach then tried to convince our son into walking away from his commitment without ever talking to us. When time ran down, two weeks before we were to leave town, the club coach says he was never informed that four players were traveling out of state, convinced all the other parents he had been lied to by the four families to try and get community 'peer' pressure into play, and then tried to coerce each player into staying. He actually called my house and tried to blackmail me, saying he'd ensure my son never played HS baseball if I didn't walk away from our commitment and have my son play for him. Now ... I got 'involved'! I just told him my son would never play for anyone with such questionable ethics, who would outright lie about these boys and families to our parent community and try blackmail a kids future, and that I'd be having a conversation with the Athletic Director. The AD is a straight up guy of unquestionable ethics, and he did the right thing.

That was the only time I ever told a coach my son wouldn't play for him ... and it had nothing to do with baseball. For me, it was all about taking a stand against unethical behavior and teaching my son that you follow through on your commitments.

It comes back to ethics and values ... there's good and bad in all walks of life, and that includes parents too.

Parental involvement is a great thing as long as it is for the right reasons. At the youth level there would not be a league if not for the parents. Coaches , field maint etc etc etc. At the HS level parents can be a great help with concessions working on the field and booster clubs etc. Parents that want to help for the sake of helping the program which helps all the kids are a worth their weight in gold. Parents that get involved hoping that somehow it will gain their son and advantage and then are are upset when it does not can be a pain in the you know what. Some have their hearts in the right place and some do not. This is just a fact. If your one of those parents that just wants to help to make it better for all the kids and you are not out to try to gain your son some type of advantage I commend you for your service. If you are one of the other types I wish you would just come and watch the games and leave the rest to the parents that truly are in it for the right reasons.

Rollerman:

Great question. I thought you were telling my story until you got to the part where the HS coach is teaching your son differently and your son is losing respect. I have been lucky. The HS coach has not tried to tamper or even tinker with my son's abilities. He has just used them.

I would think about transfering schools but that is not always a possibility and you may end up with the same problem. A talk with the coach at the end of the season might help either to get the coach to maybe let your son develop more on his own or to help you and your son make a decision about whether he wants to go to another school so he can play good baseball ro stay at this school and do the best he can. No easy answer but I think you do need to stay involved.

TW344

I think at some points in this thread, we have demonstrated some of the points I was attempting to make on the "Experts" thread. Where do you as parents decide that the coach can't coach your kid. Do you then decide to remove your son. As a parent, and in my opinion, you should if and when your son is put into a position to be disloyal to the coach. This would also include factoring in your opinion that the coach doesn't know how to coach your son and so, he had better not try to change him. Perhaps it would be better if some of these guys were referred to as supervisors rather than "coach." Having said all of the above, and again, I'd remove my child at any point where I thought that a disservice was being done to my child.

CoacHB25

I look at this way--what makes a parent think he knows so much about the game that he can deem a coach to be so bad he should not be coaching their son ?

The only reason we would suggest that a pitcher stop his lessons is because of pitch counts. How can a coach keep track of one of his pitchers if he has no idea how many pitches he's throwing outside of "The team". I have had this problem, went to put a kid in the game (warm-up) after he had more then his rest (4 days) and he told me he could not because he threw with his pitching coach the night before because his DAD didn't think he would be used the next day. It was supposed to be an easy game, we know how that goes...

If a player has a hitting coach, great, go get more swings. Parents can not have it both ways. Coaches that have their players best interest at heart and have the team before the individual. I'm sure there are plenty of coaches without experience playing, my sons play for one. It doesn't mean he's out to get them hurt and yes I keep an eye there.

dad4boys

I dont care how you spin it who your brother in law is what he does or how he does it. To call most high school coaches a joke is over the top.

Will,

Let me apologize I meant to say "ACTIVE" high school coaches. And expecting something for $2500.00 per year is not realistic in todays world, when top travel ball coaches in our area draw $5000-10000.00 depending on their professional experience.

You and B25 are excluded from the blanket statement.

While I think it only wise to continue to be concerned, supportive and watchful over your high schooler, there has to come a time when you grant them some degree of trust (something earned). Maybe your son is the best "example" for that pot smoking/school-skipping/booze drinking kid to be around. Maybe you shouldn't short change the coach - or your son - when it comes to matters like this.

Just a little comment to provoke some thought..

I apologize since I went a little over the top with my last post. What we need to realize is that parents should be involved. However, it has to be a joint effort including trust going both directions. Yesterday, I had a young man that wasn't charging as hard as he could. I really got after him. When his Dad came to pick him up, I asked to speak with the Dad "for just a second." I told him that I'd gotten after his son and his son was going to have a rough night. I asked him to understand that while I got after that young man, I think the world of him and that he "will be back." If we could all think of the team and kid first then we should all be able to get along and do what is right for everyone involved. I know how hard that is!

[I look at this way--what makes a parent think he knows so much about the game that he can deem a coach to be so bad he should not be coaching their son ?]

TRhit

To answer your question...

When the coach admits he does not know much about baseball (in the parents meeting) but tells the team. Things will be done -- his way.

When he closes practices to parents (policy for 2 years.)

When every parent of every player in the entire program wishes he weren't the coach.

When he plays the wrong players in the wrong positions...and sits kids who all the players know are the best on the team.

When the kids he plays go to him and say another kid is way better than me and can help our team win - and he doesn't listen.

In short when the coach does not care!

its,

I considered the positive influence side of the equation then I remembered the story an old country preacher told when I was a kid at a tent meeting with my Grandmaw.

"A young girl started seeing a fellow in her community who had a less than good reputation. Her dad confronted her and she rebelled. He then had her stand in a chair and told her to lift him up into the chair with her. Of course she could not and told him she could not lift him up to her level. He then reached up took her and easily sat her down on his level."

My point is when my son leaves my house and goes to college or into the work force if he chooses, he can chose to save anybody he wants. He can hand out tracks at crack houses if he decides that is his calling. But in the mean time I will be careful about who he associates with.

Now let me brag a little as none of you know who I am. But I think my approach is working for my family.

As you know I have 4 boys if you read my profile.

All except the oldest make straight A's. And he did until HS.
The oldest who is the HS baseball player (LHP), played football for Freshman and Sophmore seasons then decided the work load was too much and decided to focus on baseball. National Honor Society, and selected to Alabama Boys State, takes all advanced classes and has a 3.53 gpa. PSAT 211, ACT 31, SAT 1920 on new one, these were his first trys and he is taking over because he thinks he can do better.

2 younger boys play 3 sports, number 2 son doesn't like sports so he does none. His choice. He scored 100% on his grade level SATs.

They are active in Church and Mow their Grandparents yard.

MR MOM

The coach has the right to close practices --I know many that do

And yes things will be done his way

The coach makes the judgement regarding who playes where and when---perhaps the parents arent as smart as they think they are

Coaches care --perhaps not in the way you want or like but thsy care


Let me tell you this, I attend many HS games and sit in stands as just a baseball fan at the games start and listen to the parents talk among themselves--I can take if for just about an inning or two and then I go stand down the foul line away from everyone---I still want to know where the parents learned all this purported "knowledge of the game"---funny thing when I get down the foul line I meet the parents who really know and understand the game and they moved down the line for the same reasons I did

quote:

Let me apologize I meant to say "ACTIVE" high school coaches. And expecting something for $2500.00 per year is not realistic in todays world, when top travel ball coaches in our area draw $5000-10000.00 depending on their professional experience.

You are still insulting some good baseball people.

I recently got wind of an interesting approach by a coach. Seems that he had a few parents that felt certain players should be playing over others and the batting order should be different as well. What he did was call parent "B" over after practice/game, told them that parent "A" felt their son shouldn't be starting. Next day met with parent "D", told them that parent "C" came to him and complained that C's son should be batting 3rd and has always been a much more productive player then D. Every time a parent would complain about a player he went right to the other parent, thus causing some serious stress in the bleachers.

After a few weeks he got them all together and said that he would speak to any parent, any time about the qualities that their son brings to the team but at no time could they mention another player, postion or suggestion.

Regarding room mates, we always tried to match up 2 or 3 strong kids with the one who may be a little out of line. Strength in numbers.

Dad4boys, do these other parents realize how poorly you think of their son? Are they even aware of his antics or reputation? Many parents wear blinders and either don't see it or don't care to see it.

We have seen by some of the players who are regualrs here on the board, that some parents are not involved, some don't attend games and some don't support their kids or have any idea how good they are as young adults and as players. It's truely, not a time to miss.