I searched past threads for information on Patriot League schools and I'm hoping for a bit more recent information. I know they are fantastic academic schools but how about the baseball? Specifically, how's the pitching?
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Starting pitchers usually 85-89. Once in a while you'll see 90-92. Those are RHPs.
As you say great academic schools and solid baseball. One thing I've done to gain perspective on various conferences is to go the the perfectgame.org website. I click on college, then college commitments, then the individual schools in the conference. I look for the PG velocities for pitchers and if available the PG ratings. That has proven a pretty solid indicator of what the colleges in the conference are looking for. Good luck!
quote:BB13 said....I know they are fantastic academic schools but how about the baseball? Specifically, how's the pitching?
BB13,
Agreed, very good schools. I read your post to mean something different than other posters. Here are data points for you to determine the type and level of baseball pitching by Patriot League schools relative to the D1 population. Navy led the conference with #185 out of #292 (reported D1 schools) with a 4.97 ERA. Another interesting stat is Navy was 12-8 in the conference and last place Lehigh was 8-12 in the conference. 4 games is not a huge spread, so it appears to be a fairly competitive conference between the schools.
NCAA D1 Pitching by ERA
More specifically, you can go to the conference website to check out how they did relative to each which is probably the more important factor. I found it interesting that Navy led in ERA but they were last in team batting.
Patriot League Cumulative Stats
From the little I have seen rosters are not nearly as deep as you would see on an ACC or SEC roster etc..
I went to Lehigh and I'm still active there on campus. Also, I am very familiar with recruiting in the conference. I would call this low D1 with the thing that separates Patriot League from high D3 being the depth of the pitching, not the velocity of the top pitchers.
The league is in a funny situation where Army and Navy have been dominate for the last few years. The league does not allow athletic scholarships but Army and Navy are essentially 100% scholarship. The rest of the schools need kids that can get admitted AND can afford to attend. They lose some kids to scholarship offering D1's and they lose other kids to high academic aid D3's (think Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Swat, etc.) However, the kid with high academic standards, who is committed to D1 sports, but doesn't "fit" in the Ivy, can excel here. The problem is those same kids are being sought by many, many schools, so the rosters are not very deep.
Thats how I see it. PM me if you want specifics about Lehigh - a great place to go to school.
The league is in a funny situation where Army and Navy have been dominate for the last few years. The league does not allow athletic scholarships but Army and Navy are essentially 100% scholarship. The rest of the schools need kids that can get admitted AND can afford to attend. They lose some kids to scholarship offering D1's and they lose other kids to high academic aid D3's (think Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Swat, etc.) However, the kid with high academic standards, who is committed to D1 sports, but doesn't "fit" in the Ivy, can excel here. The problem is those same kids are being sought by many, many schools, so the rosters are not very deep.
Thats how I see it. PM me if you want specifics about Lehigh - a great place to go to school.
I happened to come upon an Army-Lafayette double header in spring of 2010 as my daughter was playing lax at a neighboring west point field that day. I was very impressed with what I saw. RHP's were in high 80's, very solid bats in middle of lineups and very good defense. Made for great games to watch.
Army used to dominate the conference. The reason for that was an Army policy known as ASO which would allow players under pro contract to play pro right away while serving alternative duty in the off season (it was much more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it). Army eliminated the policy in 2008 and 2007 was their last great recruiting class, now graduated (with the exception of one senior this year, held back medically). Their 4 starters in that class were all 91-96 and they usually led the league in all offensive stats.
Since that is no longer in place, and Army has become mortal in the conference again, the league is much more competitive, with Bucknell (always tough) and Holy Cross emerging. It's more of everyone sliding to the middle than an elevation of play to the peak.
Since that is no longer in place, and Army has become mortal in the conference again, the league is much more competitive, with Bucknell (always tough) and Holy Cross emerging. It's more of everyone sliding to the middle than an elevation of play to the peak.
Off Topic - sorry, GOOD to see you still around Chip, I hope Kirk is doing well!
GED10DaD
GED10DaD
quote:Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I happened to come upon an Army-Lafayette double header in spring of 2010 as my daughter was playing lax at a neighboring west point field that day. I was very impressed with what I saw. RHP's were in high 80's, very solid bats in middle of lineups and very good defense. Made for great games to watch.
Aww..cool, might have seen me(or better yet, heard) as the wife and I began a week's vacation up there with this series. Able to catch 9 games that week (including the Hudson Valley Classic) Not sure if CPLZ was there during Lafayette, but if he was, I was probably behind him, egging him on as he gave the umps the business.
quote:Originally posted by DaddyBo:quote:Originally posted by HVbaseballDAD:
I happened to come upon an Army-Lafayette double header in spring of 2010 as my daughter was playing lax at a neighboring west point field that day. I was very impressed with what I saw. RHP's were in high 80's, very solid bats in middle of lineups and very good defense. Made for great games to watch.
Aww..cool, might have seen me(or better yet, heard) as the wife and I began a week's vacation up there with this series. Able to catch 9 games that week (including the Hudson Valley Classic) Not sure if CPLZ was there during Lafayette, but if he was, I was probably behind him, egging him on as he gave the umps the business.
That's a **** lie, I never gave the umps the business. Constructive criticism is an art.
Thanks GED. Kirk is in route from Ft. Lee, VA, to his permanent post with the 1st Infantry Division in Ft. Riley, KS.
Good Morning! Good Afternoon! & Good Night! 
quote:Originally posted by DaddyBo:
Good Morning! Good Afternoon! & Good Night!
Ahhh, the three pitch strikeout call...as a pitchers pop, oh how I loved to say that...in a constructive manner, of course.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Army used to dominate the conference. The reason for that was an Army policy known as ASO which would allow players under pro contract to play pro right away while serving alternative duty in the off season (it was much more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it). Army eliminated the policy in 2008 and 2007 was their last great recruiting class, now graduated (with the exception of one senior this year, held back medically). Their 4 starters in that class were all 91-96 and they usually led the league in all offensive stats.
Since that is no longer in place, and Army has become mortal in the conference again, the league is much more competitive, with Bucknell (always tough) and Holy Cross emerging. It's more of everyone sliding to the middle than an elevation of play to the peak.
One of those players who just graduated last May is 6'8 LHP/1B/DH Joey Henshaw. During June he attended a Braves tryout that my son just happened to be at. There were probably 150 young men out there. A couple even wore jeans!
At the end the only player they asked to stay after and talked was Joey Henshaw. His bat was electrifying with a lot of pop. And they noticed it! What happened after that I don't know. But Im sure today he is stationed somewhere as a brand new 2nd Lieutenant learning his new craft in the Army.
YGD
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
One of those players who just graduated last May is 6'8 LHP/1B/DH Joey Henshaw. During June he attended a Braves tryout that my son just happened to be at. There were probably 150 young men out there. A couple even wore jeans!
At the end the only player they asked to stay after and talked was Joey Henshaw. His bat was electrifying with a lot of pop. And they noticed it! What happened after that I don't know. But Im sure today he is stationed somewhere as a brand new 2nd Lieutenant learning his new craft in the Army.
YGD
FYI,
The chief scout for Atlanta is a guy by the name of Fleming. His son Kyle is USMA 2009 and the RF for Army, which of course makes him a teammate of Henshaw.
Chip
CPLZ and Daddybo,
A couple of sons and I watched this National Geographic documentary on "Surviving West Point" on Netflix last night. I had no idea whatsover what went on there even though I know grads and current students. I can't imagine what it would be like to play a significant varsity sport there such as baseball. What an incredibly intense place. Beast I and Beast II look brutal.
I think it may have scared my youngest (hs freshmen) away from a service academy. We may be looking at ROTC instead.
A couple of sons and I watched this National Geographic documentary on "Surviving West Point" on Netflix last night. I had no idea whatsover what went on there even though I know grads and current students. I can't imagine what it would be like to play a significant varsity sport there such as baseball. What an incredibly intense place. Beast I and Beast II look brutal.
I think it may have scared my youngest (hs freshmen) away from a service academy. We may be looking at ROTC instead.
Ahhh, it's not been that bad (then again, I've been 1200+ miles away from it )
I would think it does take a certain personality to thrive in a service academy environment. Beast was tough***...after that, it appears the academics is the tough deal. Taking 19-21 credit hours during spring season for most of his college career can NOT be fun.
The kid started his final semester of it today. He was excited for his "light load" of 15 1/2 hours.
[***...freaked us out a little in summer of 2008 when we went up for "Acceptance Day" (after 7 weeks of basic training). He spoke very little...apologized to us about it, as he "was not used to speaking without permission."
]
)I would think it does take a certain personality to thrive in a service academy environment. Beast was tough***...after that, it appears the academics is the tough deal. Taking 19-21 credit hours during spring season for most of his college career can NOT be fun.
The kid started his final semester of it today. He was excited for his "light load" of 15 1/2 hours.
[***...freaked us out a little in summer of 2008 when we went up for "Acceptance Day" (after 7 weeks of basic training). He spoke very little...apologized to us about it, as he "was not used to speaking without permission."
]
quote:Originally posted by Blue10:
To the proud West Point dads on HSBBW: I read in an earlier post that the ASO at West Point was discontinued for those who are drafted out of West Point. So what happens now? Is playing beyond college even a possibility any more? Thanks for any insights.
Playing in the minors is still viable, but definately more difficult. Details are murky (not unusual for military policy ), but graduates usually have enough leave time after graduation to play short season rookie ball with no problem (2011 grad did just that).
The prior rule was immediate ability to play while serving in a recruiting function for the first two years...then future determination/decisions made. The requirement now is at least 2 years service before any future determination can be made; therefore, the 2nd year is where the rub comes. Military service is foremost, but some accomodations happen. Most kids that would have the chance to pursue this would apply to be a grad assistant at The Point for the first semester the year following graduation. This leaves a little flexibility for staying in "baseball shape"...but officer "trainup school" and initial post would then take place in the 2nd semester and following...probably precluding the ability to play in the 2nd summer. The right player, the right organization...it can happen. Adaptability is key...and cadets, if nothing else, learn adaptation over their 4 years.
), but graduates usually have enough leave time after graduation to play short season rookie ball with no problem (2011 grad did just that). The prior rule was immediate ability to play while serving in a recruiting function for the first two years...then future determination/decisions made. The requirement now is at least 2 years service before any future determination can be made; therefore, the 2nd year is where the rub comes. Military service is foremost, but some accomodations happen. Most kids that would have the chance to pursue this would apply to be a grad assistant at The Point for the first semester the year following graduation. This leaves a little flexibility for staying in "baseball shape"...but officer "trainup school" and initial post would then take place in the 2nd semester and following...probably precluding the ability to play in the 2nd summer. The right player, the right organization...it can happen. Adaptability is key...and cadets, if nothing else, learn adaptation over their 4 years.
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPLZ:
At the end the only player they asked to stay after and talked was Joey Henshaw. His bat was electrifying with a lot of pop.
YGD
Ahhh the memories . . . .
I haven't been on this site for quite a while, and the first thread I read is this one regarding the Patriot League. And then, this note regarding Mr. Henshaw.
I swear the first time I saw him in the batter's box, he had one foot on the front line and the other on the back line. He is a BIG man! I was always a little concerned when my son was about to pitch to Joey.
As for the League, it is pretty even from top to bottom as was mentioned. There are no league games that can be taken for granted. For what it's worth, Boyd's World final rankings for 2011 had 4 of 6 Patriot teams ranked from 198 - 217, and the other 2 in the 245-255 range. That is out of the 300 D1 teams they ranked.
speaking of memories, Henshaw was my kid's hitting tee partner when mine first got to WP...assistant coach said it was a sight to see watching them work that tee (henshaw..6'7"..mine..5'7")
Patriot League to offer athletic scholarships to football
The Patriot League announced yesterday afternoon that member colleges have authorized conference schools to begin offering up to 20 athletic-merit scholarships per year for football beginning in 2013:
Patriot League to Offer Football Scholarships for First Time Starting 2013 - Bloomberg
Football-playing members of the Patriot League include: Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette and Lehigh. Affiliate members for football are Fordham and Georgetown.
Possibly, baseball is next?
The Patriot League announced yesterday afternoon that member colleges have authorized conference schools to begin offering up to 20 athletic-merit scholarships per year for football beginning in 2013:
Patriot League to Offer Football Scholarships for First Time Starting 2013 - Bloomberg
Football-playing members of the Patriot League include: Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette and Lehigh. Affiliate members for football are Fordham and Georgetown.
Possibly, baseball is next?
That's what I hear. A small limit. But baseball nonetheless.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Since that is no longer in place, and Army has become mortal in the conference again, the league is much more competitive, with Bucknell (always tough) and Holy Cross emerging. It's more of everyone sliding to the middle than an elevation of play to the peak.
Hmmmmm....
