Don't compare a winter camp to the Stanford Camp---they are two different beasts
My intuition tells me TR is right on this. I sent coach an e-mail asking him exactly that question. No response so far. And no we cannot afford 50% of this school's tuition. I would rather pay his training academy for lessons. If my intuition is telling me its for the D1's bottom line, I'm not going to contribute.
He did OSU's camp last winter, evidently they weren't impressed. If coach responds I'll post it, of course no names will be mentioned to protect the innocent.
He did OSU's camp last winter, evidently they weren't impressed. If coach responds I'll post it, of course no names will be mentioned to protect the innocent.
quote:Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
Latest question, son is starting to get more inquires from schools. Just got invite to big D1 baseball camp. It asked him to do two things, fill out questionnaire and sign up for camp. Came from head coach. Camp is only a week away, I do know assistant coach had seen son in person. No big deal in filling out questionnaire but as you all know his SAT and GPA are below this schools standards. Why do the camp if school cannot accept you? What would you do, skip camp?
PUHD,
Your son is getting invites because the first purpose of camps is to raise money. The second purpose is to provide good instruction so you will tell your friends and they will come to the next camp, their third is to have a chance to speak to recruits in person (allowed) while on their campus.
They have no clue most of the time who they are sending invites to, just off some list they got from somewhere. Many head coaches are the benefactors of the camp programs, they may pay for the use of the facilities and the balance is used to their discretion. Those that do not need the extra income, use it for equipment or to pay for living expenses for their assistants that receive no salary. That's why they have sent the invitation.
I would agree at this time, your son's age, in your financial situation that it's not necessary. Regardless of their admission standards, do you think that your son could handle big D1 ball and class at the same time? And is he eligible through the clearinghouse, not just the school's standards that's most important.
quote:SSmom
You are jesting I hope---
Answer me this:---if you cannot get into the school academically why spend the money at their camp--why not spend the money at a camp at a school where the player can gain admission
Truly, and no insult meant here, you sometimes,a ctually most times, amaze me with your responses
TRhit
No insult my rump, TR.
But I am glad to add to your amazement.
" Amazin' Shortstawpmomma " kinda has a ring to it.
I'll take a tiara too if you've got one.
I have never claimed to be an expert and am constantly learning, but I will continue to share with others what worked for my son's on their sport journies through the recruitment process, with the hope that perhaps it might help someone, even if it's a little. My experiences are not gospel by any means, and I would hate to ever steer anyone wrong, but some things my son's did worked for them and I'd like to share that,...... for what its worth.
Might not add up to be worth as much as a can of beans for some, but they did get scholarship offers, in multiple sports, and were greatful to get the opportunity to play at the next level.
My son attended a few DI camps, not to gain exposure but to actually get some experienced coaching and drill techniques. He's a switch hitter and was looking for some help. He wasnt able to afford lessons from a hitting instructor, but he was able to save enough for a couple of camps. This provided him the opportunity to talk with and work hands on with DI coaches and to learn from their instruction. I dont think he ever expected to gain any interest from them, ( perhaps he hoped ) but he did want to learn something and that he did,..ALOT,..especially from Wichita State, K-State, and Oklahoma State.
Not everyone goes to camps for exposure. Some go to learn to try and improve.
Not exactly an amazing answer TR. Just an ordinary highschool kid doing his best to get better.
shortstopmom
Keep posting. i love reading mom posts like yours . us moms have things to add to these board discussions too. And remember many boys wont ever play beyond HS, maybe they go to a college camp becasue its the only way they will ever play at a college. Not everything is always exposure and whos going to see you. Goodness cant people just do something because it sounds like fun and they might learn something.Sometimes I think some people think every players parents on here is going to play college baseball. this is a HS baseball web, college camps can just be a learning experience. Not everyone gets to go to area code games or aflac all american, some boys are just avg. players.And they should exp. whatever they want to , to enhance their baseball in any way.
Keep posting. i love reading mom posts like yours . us moms have things to add to these board discussions too. And remember many boys wont ever play beyond HS, maybe they go to a college camp becasue its the only way they will ever play at a college. Not everything is always exposure and whos going to see you. Goodness cant people just do something because it sounds like fun and they might learn something.Sometimes I think some people think every players parents on here is going to play college baseball. this is a HS baseball web, college camps can just be a learning experience. Not everyone gets to go to area code games or aflac all american, some boys are just avg. players.And they should exp. whatever they want to , to enhance their baseball in any way.
I agree with your post ssm, the very first reason to go to a camp is to improve your game and as Homerun04 suggests, create a pipeline for the future.
Camp invites do not always mean you are being considered to play at their program and parents should realize this.
I think that Sully told me once, other than the kids that came year after year to camp, very few were actually recruited from camp.
Some special invites are for coaches top recruits hoping they will come (and get in an unofficial visit out of it as well). This does not mean that camps are not good for the recruiting process. Mine did one, his top choice and because it was local If out of state (unless they were recruiting him seriously and needed to see him) not sure (as a senior) we would have sent him.
Camp invites do not always mean you are being considered to play at their program and parents should realize this.
I think that Sully told me once, other than the kids that came year after year to camp, very few were actually recruited from camp.
Some special invites are for coaches top recruits hoping they will come (and get in an unofficial visit out of it as well). This does not mean that camps are not good for the recruiting process. Mine did one, his top choice and because it was local If out of state (unless they were recruiting him seriously and needed to see him) not sure (as a senior) we would have sent him.
You moms just keep posting, I like to hear your perspective. Just an FYI, my son was never hot on camps to begin with, but shortstopmom has a point, an opportunity to learn. Son is doing basketball and would not want to miss a game for this. But hey, I will ask his interest just to see. I believe he is also on track for the clearinghouse, if not, then dad spent 50 bucks for nothing. Won't be the first or the last time. Great feedback from the group, keep on posting!
Is getting recruited the only reason kids attend any camp.
Why do kids attend camps that are not run by colleges? Like camps run by MLB pitching or hitting coaches. Why do kids get instruction? Aren’t some of these college camps run by great baseball instructors? Shouldn’t a player learn something he can use from any good camp.
Heck, if I’m a good enough player, I don’t have to attend Arizona State’s camp to get recruited by them. If I’m not good enough to play at Arizona State, I might still learn something from their camp that can help me get recruited by another school. For that matter, the coaches there, might recommend me to another college at a level I am best suited for.
That said, there’s always the chance of creating recruiting interest. Not many secrets these days. If a kid throws 90+ or does something spectacular at most any college camp, the word travels fast.
One thing we have noticed FWIW. With a few exceptions, all kids who attend a college camp and actually end up signing with that college… Were kids who were being recruited by that college before they attended the camp. So for all the others, there might still be a chance, but probably a very slim one. Still, between learning something and creating other possibilities, it could still be very worthwhile.
Camps are like players… Some are much better than others. If you attend for the sole purpose of getting recruited, that’s one thing. If you are going in order to learn something that will improve your game, search for the best camp.
Why do kids attend camps that are not run by colleges? Like camps run by MLB pitching or hitting coaches. Why do kids get instruction? Aren’t some of these college camps run by great baseball instructors? Shouldn’t a player learn something he can use from any good camp.
Heck, if I’m a good enough player, I don’t have to attend Arizona State’s camp to get recruited by them. If I’m not good enough to play at Arizona State, I might still learn something from their camp that can help me get recruited by another school. For that matter, the coaches there, might recommend me to another college at a level I am best suited for.
That said, there’s always the chance of creating recruiting interest. Not many secrets these days. If a kid throws 90+ or does something spectacular at most any college camp, the word travels fast.
One thing we have noticed FWIW. With a few exceptions, all kids who attend a college camp and actually end up signing with that college… Were kids who were being recruited by that college before they attended the camp. So for all the others, there might still be a chance, but probably a very slim one. Still, between learning something and creating other possibilities, it could still be very worthwhile.
Camps are like players… Some are much better than others. If you attend for the sole purpose of getting recruited, that’s one thing. If you are going in order to learn something that will improve your game, search for the best camp.
quote:With a few exceptions, all kids who attend a college camp and actually end up signing with that college… Were kids who were being recruited by that college before they attended the camp.
I guess my son is one of those exceptions.
He ended up signing with a program 5 hours away that recruits mostly out of its own metropolitan area and never would have known about him had he not contacted them and attended their camp. Once they saw him at their camp, they began following him and ended up making an offer.
My son attended another camp at a Big 12 school that was not recruiting him. This school ended up recommending his name to a feeder JUCO located 8 hours from our home and they began recruiting him.
If you have talent and you are an "unknown," playing for a low-profile high school or select program, of if you desire to play for a program located a long way from home (living and playing outside the area the school recruits from), camps can be a beneficial way to get exposure.
PG has a good point, the key is finding a good camp. So the question is, are all D1 camps high caliber, or a babysitting experience? I know of someone who I believe has gone there last year. He wasn't recruited by this school but at least someone who could verify experience.
I find it very interesting how schools from outside our state knew about son, but not a word from in state schools? Has this happened to your son?
I find it very interesting how schools from outside our state knew about son, but not a word from in state schools? Has this happened to your son?
Of course many smaller teams recruit local players from their camps, they don't have the budgets that the larger programs do to travel all over the country looking for recruits.
Mine only attended the UM camp because he got a brochure asking for us to call. It was his top choice at the time. They told him that he was a strong consideration and they would like him to attend. As a junior there was nothing that he learned that would make a differnce at that point but I do agree, if you are going to attend a camp for instruction, attend a good one. One thing, they had many mlb scouts in attendance and assisting, most of the teams that reside in the FL state league. The majority of campers were youunger.
What's a good camp? One apporpriate for your sons age and position, watch for camps that have pitchers
and seperate catchers camps, especially for older players. I know that FSU recruits from their camps (or used to), as the HC likes local players (northern FL and GA).
PUHD, you recently stated that your son attended woodbat in Jupiter. All names are released in the rosters and not too difficult for any coach to find out about a player. That is when son began to get all of his recruiting letters after Jupiter. I am sure not all of the coaches actually saw him play. This is why attending those events early in the process helps speed things along, not that the letters mean that a player will get offers, it was an introductory letter so that the player would take notice of that program and do their homework.
Player gets letter and questionare, parent or player adds school into data base (sometimes in a spreadsheet )and begins their homework on the school and program. Many think that attending the camp may help.
What does it matter where they got his name? What you have to understand is that the more they invite the more $$ they make.
Mine only attended the UM camp because he got a brochure asking for us to call. It was his top choice at the time. They told him that he was a strong consideration and they would like him to attend. As a junior there was nothing that he learned that would make a differnce at that point but I do agree, if you are going to attend a camp for instruction, attend a good one. One thing, they had many mlb scouts in attendance and assisting, most of the teams that reside in the FL state league. The majority of campers were youunger.
What's a good camp? One apporpriate for your sons age and position, watch for camps that have pitchers
and seperate catchers camps, especially for older players. I know that FSU recruits from their camps (or used to), as the HC likes local players (northern FL and GA).
PUHD, you recently stated that your son attended woodbat in Jupiter. All names are released in the rosters and not too difficult for any coach to find out about a player. That is when son began to get all of his recruiting letters after Jupiter. I am sure not all of the coaches actually saw him play. This is why attending those events early in the process helps speed things along, not that the letters mean that a player will get offers, it was an introductory letter so that the player would take notice of that program and do their homework.
Player gets letter and questionare, parent or player adds school into data base (sometimes in a spreadsheet
)and begins their homework on the school and program. Many think that attending the camp may help.What does it matter where they got his name? What you have to understand is that the more they invite the more $$ they make.
If you are looking for instruction you need to be careful about the camps you attend. There's nothing worse than attending the U of ? camp only to find the guy coaching your position doesn't share your knowledge or technique for the position and/or hitting. Too much help with hitting is a good way to set your son back
Collegeparent,
good point about them trying to do too much with your swing over one weekend.I think there are some kids who just sign up for a bunch of college camps thinking it will be the way to get seen and they have no idea what type of camp it is. Not everyone comes on here and questions things like we all do.
good point about them trying to do too much with your swing over one weekend.I think there are some kids who just sign up for a bunch of college camps thinking it will be the way to get seen and they have no idea what type of camp it is. Not everyone comes on here and questions things like we all do.
My son went to two "college camps". Both were invites he received in the mail addressed to him. They were both strictly money makers. A complete waste of money. No good instruction...At all. Mostly players running things with a couple of the assistants overseeing things.
The decision makers were out on the road making decisions.
And, by the time you go to the camp they are already done recruiting for that class year.
Spend your money sending your player to good quality tournaments. That is where the recruiters are.
The decision makers were out on the road making decisions.
And, by the time you go to the camp they are already done recruiting for that class year.
Spend your money sending your player to good quality tournaments. That is where the recruiters are.
Playfair, I have to agree on this. When my son played AC, I noticed two levels of players, the "blue chip" must follow and the second tier (my son). To me being an objective parent, I felt my son in company of these players was out of his league. Yes he is a good player, not denying this, but a true D1, no he is not. But there was definitely two levels what we would refer to as starters and bench. Being around these players you could see something special about the way they carried themselves.
I think the chances of being recruited out of a camp depends on the talent of the player and the need of the team.
Some players attend for fun, some for instruction and some for exposure.
Some players attend for fun, some for instruction and some for exposure.
PUHD, I know what you mean. My child does have a D1 scholarship, but he is not a blue chipper. He is just really good. I was talking to a NYY scout today and we were talking about how EVERYONE IS REALLY GOOD.
That is the thing, everyone is good.
NJBB, "the chances of being recruited out of a camp depends on the quality of the player".....
If the quality of the player is really good they aready know about him. And, nod nod wink wink to the travel ball coach... if your player "johnny just called me I would like to talk to him".....offer coming.
You dont need to go to the camp.
That is the thing, everyone is good.
NJBB, "the chances of being recruited out of a camp depends on the quality of the player".....
If the quality of the player is really good they aready know about him. And, nod nod wink wink to the travel ball coach... if your player "johnny just called me I would like to talk to him".....offer coming.
You dont need to go to the camp.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
One thing we have noticed FWIW. With a few exceptions, all kids who attend a college camp and actually end up signing with that college…
I won't disagree with that statement because you qualified it with "a few exceptions". In my son's case it definitely got him on the radar screen with his college who was not yet recruiting him--he was 15 and a rising sophomore at that time. Which brings me to my point. I think college camps are most useful for rising sophomores (to garner early interest) or for older players so obviously talented the recruiters are in "shock and awe". Either way, you should have projected or present D1 talent.
quote:Originally posted by mrmom:
I'm talking about coaches and scouts just their to allegedly observe the talent!
I realize anyone working the camp gets paid, I'm curious about those their to "scout!"
They don't just sit on their butt and observe. They are usually teaching as well.
It is a very common practice.
After spending 4 hours this past Saturday watching an off campus camp attended by about 10 D1 coaches I would say that 90-95% of the kids wasted their parents money. Most of the coaches were from high level programs, Stanford, Miami, Georgia, Tennessee.
IMO those types of programs have a particular player size in mind. If a kid was under 6' they just about took notice of him. Regardless how good his swing looked. When a big, strong kid with a nice swing was finished at a station the coaches would chat him up or give instructions. This was an indoor camp where fielding was performed but the focus was on hitting.
What I came away thinking was that kids should attend camps where there are going to coaches that fit their abilities and their college projection. This is hard because alot of parents have higher expectations than are reaistic.
I do think their is value in attending camps but it has to be the right ones.
IMO those types of programs have a particular player size in mind. If a kid was under 6' they just about took notice of him. Regardless how good his swing looked. When a big, strong kid with a nice swing was finished at a station the coaches would chat him up or give instructions. This was an indoor camp where fielding was performed but the focus was on hitting.
What I came away thinking was that kids should attend camps where there are going to coaches that fit their abilities and their college projection. This is hard because alot of parents have higher expectations than are reaistic.
I do think their is value in attending camps but it has to be the right ones.
Take a look at their roster. 7 guys at Miami under 6" and a lot at 6' which most add an inch to the height.
Like I said, this camp was inside where hitting was the main focus. The coaches seemed to be noticing bat speed with power. If this was outside things like speed, quickness and fielding would be added to the equation. I don't doubt that there are many kids under 6' on alot of D-1 programs.
I don't want to get into the "size matters" discussion just passing along an observation.
BTW, the Miami coach was one in particular who made a comment about size to one of the in house instructors.
I don't want to get into the "size matters" discussion just passing along an observation.
BTW, the Miami coach was one in particular who made a comment about size to one of the in house instructors.
size has been discussed a lot, but one thning for the most part the smaller guys usually need to be really really really fast. 6.0 or below in the 60 yd dash. But Dustin P. speaks for all the small guys out there. Cant use size as an excuse with guys like him making it. What did he do to get noticed thats the question to ask yourselves? he did something that opened up someones eyes. I do agree the bigger guys get attention easier.As for going to camps, ask the coaches for an evaluation. We emailed coaches after camps. they said barely anyone does. got wonderful feedback, took every comment and worked on whatever weaknessess he had. Agiain use the camps as a tool, get anything you can out of them, dont look at them just a s a recruiting tool, they arent always going to recruit you. But you can get something out of the good ones.
Fillsfan, we were posting at the same time.But I agree they really notice bat speed, with some pop.
fan, I think you meant a sub 7.0 60. I think Usain Bolt is the only guy running a sub 6.0 60.
This is an incorrect observation Fills. Lokk at any D1 roster. There are a lot of sub 6' guys on them. It is not about size matters. Talent matters. Most teams now post their 09 rosters now at least for the fall roster and it is easy to check. I have.
BHD, I agree about under 6' guys on the roster.
My observation was from the camp is that the college coaches gave alot of their attention to the bigger hitting guys. I am not commenting on the current rosters of these schools.
I always agree it is about talent, the easiest talent to see at this particular camp was bat speed and power.
My observation was from the camp is that the college coaches gave alot of their attention to the bigger hitting guys. I am not commenting on the current rosters of these schools.
I always agree it is about talent, the easiest talent to see at this particular camp was bat speed and power.
It may have been that the bigger guys were the most talented in that particular camp and it is too small a sample to draw a conclusion from. The actual rosters show that the D1 colleges are looking at talent and that they sign talent. They are not always right about who they sign. I have seen guys signed who had spectacular outtings and tutn out to be a very poor choice.
The original post about paying coaches and scouts is that they do get paid in most cases. I remember a showcase that had all the recruiters turned back at the border. They had not appled for a work permit to work at the camp. They had to be making money to need a work permit.
The original post about paying coaches and scouts is that they do get paid in most cases. I remember a showcase that had all the recruiters turned back at the border. They had not appled for a work permit to work at the camp. They had to be making money to need a work permit.
Oh my gosh, it must be Monday and I have finals this week. yes I meant a 7.0 and below. Wow for sure you would get attention if you ran a 6.0 or below LOL MY bad. Sorry,
fillsfan, good point, why go to a D1 camp when your SAT, grades won't get you in. You can go if only for instruction, but getting recruited would be a long shot.