PC or Mac?

quote:

Is there a book or a website anyone can recommend to help a real Mac dummy?

I would lay big money that if you go to your local library (or bookstore if you want to purchase) that there is a book entitled "Mac for Dummies"
http://www.amazon.com/Macintosh-System-7-5-Dummies-Levitus/dp/1568841973

Fungo,

I'm a PC gal (used a Mac very briefly at least 20 years ago, but always preferred PCs).

But here are a couple of tutorials directly on the Apple website:

Mac 101 for new computer users:
http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/

...and Switch 101 for PC users going to Macs...probably what you need:
http://www.apple.com/support/switch101/

Let us know how it works out for you!

Julie

P.S. This part of the first tutorial looks interesting...now you have me getting more curious about Macs!
http://www.apple.com/support/mac101/tour/

First off Fungo, if you bought a new machine you're about to discover a very easy way to manage your data such as contacts, calender, pictures, etc. I use both due to work demands, but I can tell you if I had a choice it would be all Mac. You're eventually going to find that the similarities between XP and OSX are greater than the differences. I have found that it usually takes a step or two less to get what I need on a Mac. In addition to the sites that Julie has given, I suggest you make yourself an appointment at the nearest Apple store for session or two at the Genius Bar. They can usually answer any questions that you might have, and for about $100 you can get a whole year of one-on-one training and support. Seeing that there's only so much that I can absorb in one sitting, it made a lot of sense to me.
Apple Store Concierge

I also use both - and given a choice would use Mac everytime. I agree with the Genius bar suggestion along with this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Mac-Book-Leopard/dp/032150...id=1216432426&sr=1-3

Robin Williams (the author not the comic) has been writing about Macs for as long as I can remember... always very much written for the non techie...

08

Perhaps you've noticed this Mac feature, perhaps not, but we all know that File Management is always a big deal. Anyway, as you lean into the learning curve, make sure to make "spotlight" your friend.

Assuming your Mac is new or relatively new, the top right corner of your screen should display an icon that look likes a magnifying glass. Thats the spotlight.

Fungo - Just made the switch myself. Please tell me (after you learn) how to use this dang thing!

The hardware platform PC/MAC is not as important as the seamless functionality the user experiences across software file conventions and structures.

MAC was born out of the UNIX environment which evolved from the academic world, whereas the PC evolution was always cognitive of its relationship to IBM business applications.

With the advent of Windows the users Graphic User Interface (GUI) makes the underlying OS and network software the key components for file management and file transfer.

The Open Architecture Standards (OAS) have eliminated any concerns as which platform is better. The key component is user application software that can run on either platform or seem to be in "Compatibility Mode" and the user sees the same conventions (key strokes).
JMO

Not to get religious but as someone who has both - the mac just works all the time... the PC is always the one that is a pain...

I prefer the PC. My boss bought himself a PC and bought each of his kids MACs last year and he said he's not convinced about the MACs.

Both my parents' computer and my computer have Windows Vista Home Basic.

LLorton, I think I understand what you are saying. Maybe not.

All I know is that my PC needs are pretty basic; internet, music, photos, and a common application or two (Office kinda things).

My Toshiba laptop runs Vista. I don't like it. Seems bloated. Some day I will get around to deleting all the services and startups that I don't need. It would be nice if there was an option to start the computer with only the basics necessary to get up and running and then add features that the user wants.

I'm ready to try a MAC but the Windows headaches somehow are forgotten when I start pricing computers. Maybe next time...

Thanks for the many responses. They have (and continue to be) been a big help. After a few days under fire I'm starting to like the Mac. Actually I'm starting to fall in love with it. The first thing I notice is the quality of the workmanship and the simplicity of the actual hardware. There are no "aftermarket" stickers on the mac saying it's compatible with a particular program or has been designed for a particular software. You get the feeling that Mac could care less about Microsoft, IBM or PCs. Next you notice the bells and whistles seem to be an integral part of the hardware instead of being "attached" to the hardware. For instance you insert the CD/DVD smoothly into the machine instead of "popping" open a tray and having to snap a disk into a tray as you do on the PC. The power cord doesn't plug into the laptop, it is magnetized and holds itself to the laptop contacts and disconnects if you accidently snag the power cord.
I also notice that one Mac program works much the same way as other Mac programs. In other words as I begin to understand how to navigate through iPhoto, I also develop an understanding of iMovie, iDVD, Spaces, iCal and other "i" things. In PC it seems as if you have to often "change" your thought process when you change programs.
The buzz word "seamless" (which was stressed by my brother) and which LLHorton touched on is starting to make much more sense. There seems to be a smooth transition from one program to another or the "seamless" integration of more than one programs when needed.
The negatives? The Mac cost a little more. Mac, while gaining market share, is not the business world's standard. To make your Mac work for you I think you have to learn to do it the "Mac way" instead of trying to make it a PC clone. In making the laptop less cluttered Apple has eliminated some "extras" I had become used to on the PC laptop. For instance it has no media card readers, no air card slot, and only has 2 USB ports. I have to carry a portable USB hub in my laptop case and my aircard is of the USB type (but it works great).
I'm sure the iPhone interfaces well with the Mac (both being Apple) but the Palm platform which I have used for years works --- but is not quite as slick as on the PC.
I'm very happy at this point and have already got my sights set on a 20" iMac desktop to replace a PC I have.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

For instance you insert the CD/DVD smoothly into the machine instead of "popping" open a tray and having to snap a disk into a tray as you do on the PC.

Fungo, I finally finished wrestling with what to get younggun for college in a laptop. I've never even touched a Mac but did consider one when all the kids at student orientation raved about it. I succumbed to a Dell with Vista. I've personally always had a Dell and never had any problems with them which was a big purchasing point for me. I almost paid extra for XP but opted not to since a lot of kids at school will have Vista and can help him walk through any issues that may arise. I bought it with the thought in mind that it is his and will be away using it, and not here for me to use. (Talk about a hard train of thought to change!)

I bought him the new Dell Studio 15. It has 15.4" monitor. What I think he'll like best is sorta what you got on your Mac above and that's simply sliding a CD into the unit without that tray popping out. Also, in the dark the keyboard is backlit. I thought that was a pretty neat function if needed. As a parent the best thing I purchased was the accidental damage and theft coverage. 24 hour next day service if damaged and a lojack installed in it should it come up missing. Now if I could find a laptop case for him to put it in that is 20 inches of padding on both sides I'd rest more easier!

Thanks for this topic.
The new trend now is pc to Mac, I was in teh Mac store the other day and it was packed solid. I think lots of people are just tired of all the pc issues.
Yes they are real expensive but those that have switched over love it, my son is in the market for a new laptop and Mac is the way he's going. Seems like everyone one he knows making the switch.
As far as laptops, we purchased an IBM thinkpad for son when he went off to college many years ago, and it was a great investment, never any issues. However, we have found that they are NOT indestructible.

AAPL - $162.12 +3.09 (1.94%) Jul 25 4:00pm ET

Last week I read an article that said Microsoft is countering some Apple ads, saying that Vista is not to blame. Whether it is the truth or not, the perception is that Vista stinks. My experience with it is not better than XP. Therefore, Apple is a strong consideration for my next computer. Linux is still a novelty for the consumer market IMO.

quote:

I've personally always had a Dell and never had any problems with them which was a big purchasing point for me. I almost paid extra for XP but opted not to since a lot of kids at school will have Vista and can help him walk through any issues that may arise.

I currently have a Dell with Vista and it will soon become the property of my son. I liked the Dell laptop too but I also wanted to change from Vista back to XP and thought Dell would help me make the change but they said NO --- upgrades YES ----- downgrades NO. I don't know what's going to happen with Vista since Microsoft Windows 7 has been announced and as I understand will be completely different from previous Microsoft products. http://www.windows7.cc/windows7-news/microsoft-working-...n-windows-7/#more-92
Personally I think Vista will soon become the Edsel of the computer market.
Fungo

quote:

Now if I could find a laptop case for him to put it in that is 20 inches of padding on both sides I'd rest more easier!

So true. I bought what I think was a good laptop case --- A Timbuk2 Commute. Double padded and waterproof bottom.

quote:

However, we have found that they are NOT indestructible.

Having purchased at least a dozen mac laptops, (over a dozen years) for family and business. I can tell you, Mac laptops aren't indestructable either. My "travel version" never has remained solidly reliable for more than 30 months. BUT it does gets slammed to death!!

That said, its clear to me that Mac end-users benefit from Mac's integrated software/hardware package. This bundled integration, is of course, one reason they cost more and Apple's "business reason" for refusing to license MacOS.

During the past decade, several companies have tried to end-run the OS license. This example: Second Mac clone maker set to sell systems appeared online, just Friday.

Meanwhile, the fact that most (all?) Macs are now made in China has slightly improved their price competitiveness.

infidel_08 said:
LLorton, I think I understand what you are saying. Maybe not.

All I know is that my PC needs are pretty basic; internet, music, photos, and a common application or two (Office kinda things).

My Toshiba laptop runs Vista. I don't like it. Seems bloated. Some day I will get around to deleting all the services and startups that I don't need. It would be nice if there was an option to start the computer with only the basics necessary to get up and running and then add features that the user wants.

I'm ready to try a MAC but the Windows headaches somehow are forgotten when I start pricing computers. Maybe next time...

Have fun!
__________________________________________________________

Historically MAC users learned their loyalty to the Apple platforms from their time as students since Apple targeted the education market for its main revenue source. The idea was get them while their young and when they get older they won't depart from the faith. Apple even has "evangelist" who preach the gospel of MACism.

Meanwhile the business industry wanted something that could talk to the IBM mainframes via high-speed multidrop LANs and provide interactivity at the desktop level that would provide real-time power to the user so files could be updated as the transaction was happening, and update the inventory reserve level and generate automaticity for replenishing of the the supply chain.

When the MAC user finally graduated and got a job in corporate America they found themselves having to deal with the application software whose functionality was geared to meet a vertical requirement and not the "fun" of the open MAC environment.

The truth is the PC was meant to be a business platform from its inception and has had a long curve to incorporate the functionality of business and not the academia emphasis that MAC users have taken for granted. The problem is that MAC users will find that their platforms do no fit as well in the business environment because so many of the vertical third party software business applications limited by license restrictions and copyright have not been ported over to the MAC and probably never will if Microsoft prevails and refuses to give its source code over to third party developers.

If you have a kid going to college you will find the MAC is a better platform because the software products available to him are very much geared to meeting his academic requirements.

But if you're in a serious business you might pause before you switch to a MAC.
JMO

On those occasions that something does not run on the Apple OS, you can simply run Windows on the Mac, assuming you have a newer mac, (e.g one sold in the last 3 years roughly) it has an intel chip at its core.

As far as I know, everything runs just fine in that mode...

The only reason I still have a PC on my desk is that is what my employer gives me. I do 90% of my work on the Mac and move it to the PC at the last minute. I am currently using a roughly 5 year old mac laptop. I will probably go buy a new one in the next few months and simply tell my employer that they can keep the Dell.

P.S. Not to go all geeky here - but at the core of the Apple OS is a Unix operating system - the same Unix that runs in nearly every major business on earth. The Mac can operate just fine in any business.

08Dad said: On those occasions that something does not run on the Apple OS, you can simply run Windows on the Mac, assuming you have a newer mac, (e.g one sold in the last 3 years roughly) it has an intel chip at its core.

As far as I know, everything runs just fine in that mode...

The only reason I still have a PC on my desk is that is what my employer gives me. I do 90% of my work on the Mac and move it to the PC at the last minute. I am currently using a roughly 5 year old mac laptop. I will probably go buy a new one in the next few months and simply tell my employer that they can keep the Dell.

P.S. Not to go all geeky here - but at the core of the Apple OS is a Unix operating system - the same Unix that runs in nearly every major business on earth. The Mac can operate just fine in any business.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Apple has made a concerted effort to bring its platforms into compliance with the Open Architecture Standards which has moved its hardware core chip set with Intel instruction set more in line with the IBM-PC and PC compatible world. For general application like WP, Excel, Adobe, etc the Windows interface provide convention tables that sychronize the arguments as a layered product, but many applications have not been ported.

It is not wise to give the false impression that you can buy a MAC and there will be no problem running PC executables. It just is not true. A technical assessment needs to be made if part of a large corporate network...and as an individual the software from a MAC has instructions that are compatible with earlier versions od MAC software to maintain scaleability, but may cause problems when running specific vertical applications.

I run a Sony VAIO laptop which runs both Vista and Linux which is the UNIX product to run Apple software and I still have to run many of the third party Apple applications in Compatibility Mode.

JMO

LL - while we could probably go back and forth on this a hundred times, I think that this is probably not the right board for this conversation...

My final comment on this is that I have had no issues - nor have I heard of others having issues running on the windows side of a Mac.

I am in a position where I would hear about such things, working for one of the world's largest software companies (not Microsoft) for more than a decade. We test enterprise apps on literally dozens of hardware and software combinations on a 7x24 basis.

I will accept that there probably are applications out there which you have exposure to (and I do not) which have problems in this area.

08

The information here should dispel any notion that Apple has the full panoply of necessary products to fully address the business and personal computing needs across a broad spectrum of applications and functionality that is offered by the IBM-PC compatibles. Nice speaking with you.

http://www.systemshootouts.org/mac_sales.html

JMO

Charles Gaba's figures displays sales data back to 99-Q3. They do not identify any special-function software applications required to do "serious business".

That point is moot however. Granted, corporate bean counters will almost always choose the "cheapest" machine, but there are no time bombs here. If you are "serious" enough to be in "serious business", you will already be "serious" enough to know whether you need some special-function business software unavailable for Mac.

Otherwise, the global business software standard is MS Office.
(sold for Mac)

Creatives use a lot of Adobe.
(sold for Mac)

Mac laptops are selling like crazy. Why?

Its a push-pull dynamic.
To many, Vista failed BUT, more importantly....
Macintosh offered a more seamless, pleasant i-life connection.

i-life.... or if you prefer the more generic D-life, delivers the digital functions people really care about: FUN!

internet, music, games, video editing, photo editing and distribution, home entertainment, handheld devices...etc

People choose to pay a little more for mac.
Why?
Because Apple delivered on a business plan that focused on bundled systems designed to maximize the "personal" function of "personal computers".

Dad can shoot, and then mac-edit video of younger brothers baseball skills video.
Big brother can record his obnoxious garage band with Garage Band.
Mom can produce the church newsletter from the sewing room.
Granny can easily index/edit/e-mail her grandchildren's photos (without help).
Uncle can switch seamlessly from espn to stock quotes and then to the GPS, all on his i-phone.

Word, Excel, Powerpoint....ho-hum
People love life and family functions. They want them to be integrated, intuitive and as painless as possible.

They are core to Apple's recent success.

Apple 08-Q2 sales rose 43%, compared to the previous year.
Apple 08-Q1 sales rose 50%, compared to the previous year.
Apple 07-Q4 sales rose 44%, compared to the previous year.

People vote with their credit cards.

HaverDad,
Thanks for your insight and a great post. I think your post describes many families in today's society. After reading all the responses I have come to the conclusion that the question should NOT be "Which is better, PC or Mac?" The question should be "Which is better for you?"
McFungo

I have owned several Macs over the years and personally liked them but did have problems findind software. The software was also more expensive as a rule. The last 4 computers I have bought are PC and the one I have now is 4 years old with multi media TV tuner and a 17" screen. I like this computer the best but it is almost 10 lbs laptop.
Mac has some very slick adds which account for the sales increases and their product is good looking and performs well. The software problem was the kicker for me.
Mac is probably a good way to go for people who are into graphics because they seemed to have that area well covered.

Apple may have increased their own sales but market share of total units across every application, which is a true indicator of user choice, remains stagnated at around 2.5%.

The functionality described providing seamless deliverables for non-business entertainment, games, video, music and other such applications are all available using a variety of embedded features with Vista and Linux products.

The increase in sales shows that Apple has a very loyal following and each new rev level of their existing product lines helps keep them in business as the "believers" salivate for the next iteration of wiz-boom-bah.

The difficulty for Apple is to meet the desire of their users to have the Apple MAC functionality ported over to vertical application which may be specific to a very small market segment of business users. So far Microsoft has been willing to port those over as third party offerings as long as the end product copyright and licensing of those vertical application become part of the Microsoft catalogue of software products.

Whereas Apple has a more general approach to their strategy by offering general compatibility for ISO vendors who provide general business applications eg, WP, Excel, Adobe,etc but that strategy does not extend to meeting real-time industrial vertical applications. That is a large share of the business and industrial market place.

Meanwhlie the PC's continue to gain more "new" user market share as Microsoft implements strong and steady products to meet business and industrial requirements.

As I said if you're an academic user the Apple MAC is a wonderful product because its focus has been to meet the needs of that market place.
JMO

OK...

For everyone seeking a "vertical application which may be specific to a very small market segment of business users", PC is your anchor option.

End-user satisfaction, for everyone else, seems more likely elsewhere:

PC Magazine 2007 Technical Support Customer Satisfaction Survey

Thanks for the PC Mag link Haverdad. While I'm still uneducated on the Mac it does make me feel more optimistic. With the extremely high marks recorded by Mac is seems as if PC Magazine must have had a "horizonal" survey. I was listening to the TV today while learning "widgets" and "stickies" and heard on national news about a new Apple Store opening in Charleston, SC. The broadcast stated the people waited 24 hrs in line before getting into the store.

A strawpoll with no controls gives a point in time statistically not significant unless sampling has control factors that contains parameters to equalize the significant intedrnals that make up survey groups.

Statistics without proper controls are like looking at tomatoes, they look like tomatoes but they are not the same unless they are measured for size, quality, age, place of production, contreol factors such as soil etc.

Actually the sampling of the larger group of PC's make the percentages representative of their answer much more significant as a factor. The smaller sampling rate of the Apple sample means the error rate would be much higher. Standard statistical anomaly.
JMO

I know I said I was going to stay out of this but I am a little confused by your market share data so I am jumping back in:

According to Gartner and IDC as reported on techreports and many other sites, Apple is now essentially in a dead heat for third in market share in the US with roughly 8%-

From http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15143

The article reads as follows:

Gartner: Apple becomes third-biggest U.S. PC vendor
by Cyril Kowaliski — 5:11 PM on July 17, 2008
Apple wasn't twiddling its thumbs this past quarter. Research firms Gartner and IDC have both released preliminary market data for desktops, laptops, and x86 servers, and as PC Magazine reports, one of them says Apple is now the third-biggest "PC" vendor in the U.S.

By Gartner's count, Apple comfortably snatched third place away from Acer, with a 65,000-unit lead. However, IDC claims Apple didn't quite make third place, getting out-shipped by Acer by just 2,200 units. The two research firms peg Apple's U.S. market share at 8.5% and 7.8%, respectively, although they both agree the Mac maker failed to make even fifth place on the global stage.

At the top of the podium, Dell maintained its position with a 32% U.S. market share, while HP was in second place with around 25% of shipments. Worldwide, the two PC giants' positions were reversed as usual, with HP nabbing 18.9% of the market and Dell securing 16.4%, according to IDC.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
A strawpoll with no controls gives a point in time statistically not significant unless sampling has control factors that contains parameters to equalize the significant intedrnals that make up survey groups.

Statistics without proper controls are like looking at tomatoes, they look like tomatoes but they are not the same unless they are measured for size, quality, age, place of production, contreol factors such as soil etc.

Actually the sampling of the larger group of PC's make the percentages representative of their answer much more significant as a factor. The smaller sampling rate of the Apple sample means the error rate would be much higher. Standard statistical anomaly.
JMO

Whatever!

I knows what I likes and what I don'.

I don't like Vista. Period.

more tomatos....

July 2008

Apple Climbs Into Third Place in U.S. PC Market

May 2008

Apple tops Consumer Reports Tech Support Poll

April 2008

Apple tops Brandchannel.com's list of most successful brands

April 2008

Apple's OS Edge Is a Threat to Microsoft

March 2008

Apple wins eight IF Product Design Awards at 2008 CeBit

October 2006

Apple high on Rescom's computer Reliability Poll

....and to think I thought FUNGO was asking about how to be Politically Correct when ordering a big Mac!!!!

Bah!

Geeeeish! I'm Hungry!!!!

For those who drank the coolaid and now need help to decipher all that MAC propaganda...

MAC FIX IT FORUMS just click below:

http://www.macfixitforums.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm

Like all electronic devices including MACs nothings perfect...even a MAC.

JMO

Its safe to say the fully objective journalism, or e-journalism, can't support itself, because people wont pay for it.

...that said.... heres another tomato:

November 2007

Vista #1 on CNET's Top 10 list of terrible tech products

The plot is simple. No spin required.

The has never been a company like Microsoft.
They are the computer industry's most powerful company and remain the world's most influential corporation.

However, after nearly five years in development, working from the Mac OSX as a function template and supported by unlimited resources, Vista was delivered nearly a year late. Even with vast promotional budgets to soften hard reality, many, many end-users are deeply disatisified.

Call it what you like, disappointment, unfulfilling... failure whatever.
Microsoft failed to deliver as promised on a product that represents 55%+ of their sales. In result, significant numbers of Vista users have either reverted to previous XP software, while some have looked elsewhere.

This affects billions of people. When you've immersed the world in your product(s)/service/techncolgy the stakes are high, and you miss the mark, there are market consequences.

If Vista had been a success, Macintosh would have continued to experience the nice, soft "halo effect" sales bump from positive associations with iPod. Vista's performance has however, opened the door, and Apple was ready with a seductive and reliable product line.

Its simply predictable that a significant fraction of those who can afford to, will prefer a user-friendly operating system, presenting intuitive interface while running on low-failure hardware.

quote:

a user-friendly operating system, presenting intuitive interface

Yo! HaverDad! You calling Fungo dumb?



Remember, he started this thread looking for help on how to run a Mac!

Seriously, one person's "intuitive" can be another person's "confounding". It depends in part on a user's body of experience, and how well the UI corresponds to that experience. Over the course of too many years, I have learned many operating systems. Every single one, when new, had its frustrations.

quote:

calling Fungo dumb?

Me. Hardly, he's part of the "significant fraction".<s>

Personally, I sensed this inertia last fall when my 80-something father-law, a retired corporate lawyer, captain of industry and former approver of 100+ networked-pc systems, got a Mac, after abandoning his battle with Vista.

He never mentioned the "change". We first found out from the brother-in-law. Soon after though, his i-life output became comparatively prodigious and the regular e-mails saying he couldn't "download this" or "open that" mysteriously stopped.