Not really. But it's just a matter of time, given the logic of today's launch of week-long 11U tournaments in Ft. Myers:
“We want to test their athletic ability and their skills against kids from around the world; they’ll be given ways to improve their deficiencies in certain testing skills."
"Many of the very best and most athletic kids at the younger age groups are leaving the game before high school in order to concentrate on other sports."
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Amen.
We have a couple over the top coaches in our program. I overheard one of them tell the other that a 10YO was a 5 tool player. I just shake my head.
Lol... I think PG puts on really good events. I'm not sure how well they'll do competing with Usssa's tournaments and the prestige of the Elite32 or Cooperstown. This was a little over the top though. I agree.
The five tools of a 10yo...
Power...to clear the 160' fence with a drop 10
Consistency...to regularly clear the 160' fence with a drop 10
Speed...to clear the bases when the ball only travels 150'
Strength...to sit at 62-63 for as many innings as coach says
Fielding...actually this tool may be present in a 10 yo
Lest we forget the 6th tool...being able to spit well with projection - no drooling on the shoes
soulslam55 posted:We have a couple over the top coaches in our program. I overheard one of them tell the other that a 10YO was a 5 tool player. I just shake my head.
I've always been amused by the term "laser arm" for six to eight year olds. It means "throws from short to first without a bounce."
PG actually held a couple of 9u tourney's in GA this year. I had to click on the event just to see. On the one hand I was like WOW they held a NINE-u tourney, that doesn't sound right. Then on the other hand I was like, holy crud I want to see the 4'4 65# kid who threw that 65mph fastball, he's got to be awesome to watch! I wonder when he is 99#'s if he will be able to throw 99mph?
As a parent of a kid that is close to entering showcase age, the way the PG has handled The Series makes me question their organization. Last year it was basically, if you pay us the money you can play. This year they were supposed to have a big combine style workout and you earn your way in, but instead they are already sending out invites. That doesn't even get into the ridiculousness of having a showcase for 11u-14u kids.
Rather than turning this thread into a debate, I will just say this...
We have one very important rule that pertains to everything we do... We only do something if we are convinced it is good for the game of baseball.
We have done extensive research, we are absolutely convinced that this will help many young kids and it will have a positive impact on the game of baseball.
To understand that, this project has to be looked at for what it is, rather than coming up with exaggerations. Many, if not all sports, are looking for the best 12 year old kids. Reason being, many of those 12 year olds end up being the best 18 year olds. Often those best 12 year old baseball athletes are also the best 12 year olds in other sports. Many end up concentrating on those other sports and baseball loses them.
We don't have that happening in our part of the country, because we know who the best 12 year olds are and we do everything in our power to keep those kids involved in baseball. Here is one good example... Scott Schebler was a 5 sport (yes, 5 sport) athlete in HS. Baseball was actually his worst sport, but we saw his ability while he was very young. We talked to his dad, we convinced Scott he should always stay involved with baseball. He did that along with continuing with the other sports. He was behind others because he couldn't devote as much time to baseball as others. But be the time he was a senior in HS everything started to click. In the end he committed to Wichita State, but was drafted by the Dodgers and signed. A few years later he was named the Dodgers Minor League Player of the Year. This year he made his debut in the Major Leagues. This was a talented young boy who stayed with baseball even though he liked other sports better. Someone just had to convince him. We believe there are lots of Scott Scheblers out there.
So rather than just saying STOP, maybe it would be better to ask WHY? Even the title to this thread is misleading. But there is nothing wrong with TBall either. Natural ability tends to stand out at any age.
I don't think it's even that complex as PG's response. The well run tournaments with the measurement tools etc are a lot of fun for the kids. So more power to them for putting them on. They can't help it if some coaches lose sight of true purpose.
D-MAC,
We understand that this venture will not be popular with many. However, last year we (PG) were not involved in the Series. That said the Classics they ran last year were an experiment and the cost involved was a lot more than the money it brought in.
Not sure about the invitations are that you mention, but my guess is those are going to kids our people have already identified.
I wouldn't consider anything the Series does a Showcase of any kind. Our goal is to identify potential players early and give young players a path to improving while keeping them involved in baseball.
BTW, you do know that 14 year old kids are being recruited by top college programs. So how ridiculous are those showcases?
Baseball would benefit, players would benefit, if early identification was available as it is in many other sports and academic areas. They are not finding out who the best gymnasts, tennis players, even golfers are by discovering them as HS upperclassmen.
It is my belief that any good baseball person can watch 12 year olds play baseball and even without testing, pick out the best potential players at age 17. It is also my belief that they would be correct more than half the time. I actually think it might be closer to 70% or 80%. Anyway, I guess we are going to find out for sure. If we are right, that data collected from testing is going to be extremely important.
PG puts on the best tourney's for 15-18 . I think they can put a better product on the field than USSSA, CABA, etc.... come on dads, you know if they had PG events back in the day you would have gone......
d-mac posted:As a parent of a kid that is close to entering showcase age, the way the PG has handled The Series makes me question their organization. Last year it was basically, if you pay us the money you can play. This year they were supposed to have a big combine style workout and you earn your way in, but instead they are already sending out invites. That doesn't even get into the ridiculousness of having a showcase for 11u-14u kids.
D-Mac, is it at all possible that the invites have been sent to the kids they already know they want there? We all know there is a top 5%, my understanding is that when you get to the bottom 50% is where the water gets muddied and perhaps it is those kids that are going to "earn their way in".
I have not seen any 11u -14u showcases, tournaments are not the same as showcases. You do understand that the PG tournaments have nothing to do with the PG showcases right? Very apples and oranges there.
PGStaff may have a point about finding early talent and encouraging that talent, it's not something I have faced with my baseball obsessed kid, he's not interested in giving up the sport. However, I can say that playing a "REAL PG TOURNAMENT" is the tournament the young kids look forward to the most. They might play in 16 tourneys in the Spring but they see the same teams over and over, when you play in a PG tourney they seem to always have the far away teams separated within the brackets. So while you may play a couple of local teams you might also get to play a team from Nevada or Texas, which is pretty much another planet to a 12 year old.
Oh, and if you ever want to hear a 12u kid go off on a ramble ask him what it was like to play at Lakepoint....you should be good for 30-60 minutes of non-stop talking, I had no idea lights could be "cool", but apparently they are the "coolest ever"!
...remember PG's post a couple weeks back on seeing a 100 12yo and trying to predict who would be the best at eo high school?
I think PG has every right to enter into the lower age arena. They are capitalizing on their brand name and strengths of their organization. They are running the risk of brand erosion, as PG is currently seen by many as the pinnacle of 18 and under baseball for talent. If it becomes less than exclusive because they spread their focus out, and another competitor arises, well, that's just business in America. It's a business decision they are making. And big one. I would like to here more about their goals and what they will do different than their competitors in that arena. Just the business story will be fascinating.
The money in youth sports is ever increasing. If you had a top notch facility and coaches/instructors, a top principal/educator base, on-line school you could charge $60,000 a year....wait, that's the IMG Academy!
I don't see any reason why PG shouldn't put on tournaments for younger kids in the age range of 11 - 14. USSSA, XDS, Triple Crown . . . whatever . . . I'm sure PG could do as good a job or better.
Now, in terms of T-ball . . . about a year-and-a-half ago, my son was at a 13U tournament and his team had a guest player. Good ballplayer, fundamentally sound. I was talking with this kid's dad and I gave some kind of innocuous compliment of his son -- something like "your son is a good ballplayer" -- and he said to me: "you know, he was on a team that won a national championship. They went to the Elite 32 tournament and won the whole thing." I said "really? what age level?" He said: "7U." I couldn't help myself -- I burst out laughing. Not quite T-ball, but close.
GO44DAD,
Thanks, there is always some risk involved, but one thing for sure, we plan to get even better at our core business which is the 15-18 ages. In no way will this project get in the way of what we do.
We also know that in order to be successful, we have to provide a service that people are happy with. In the older divisions it will allow 14 and older players to get identified, similar to a showcase event, for a fraction of the cost olf attending a normal PG Showcase. Plus they won't have far to travel and it will be easier to schedule. And if they can't afford it, we can help. That might actually cost us a lot of revenue, but it means we see even more players. It means all those players are in our database. I will only say this... It is much better for nearly every good player to be in our database than not in our database. That we are positive about!
We plan to give younger kids a very positive experience and a plan to follow. We want to help educate those interested in additional information. That includes PitchSmart and arm care along with many other things. Most of all we want kids to have an enjoyable experience with baseball and a positive memory. We know it is the younger ages where we will get some disagreement. We plan to prove this is a valuable addition to youth baseball.
And we also plan to start an entire youth organization that will offer players and teams many benefits that simply don't exist at this time. Bottom line, nothing works unless it is something good for the kids and good for the game of baseball. We know that! Most people know that! You can't be successful in our business if you don't CARE about the game and those people who play it.
If we find out we are wrong for some reason, we will drop this project much quicker than it took for us to get involved in it.
Yes, I started that thread about 100 12 year olds for a reason and this is that reason. I wanted to know what others thought. Ended up reassuring the way I thought. This site is such a great resource, full of some very experienced people. And I certainly don't expect that everyone will agree with me. And I listen to what people say, even if it isn't what I want to hear. It's just there is a difference between disagreement and blasting away as if we are the satin of baseball. An open mind can see much clearer.
In the end, I believe this program will fall perfectly inline with the commissioner's Play Ball initiative. We have discussed thus with many highest level people in baseball. This includes people in the Commissioner's office, Scouting Directors, Special Advisors, and even Mike Matheny manager of the Cardinals. We want to be sure we are doing the right thing. Time will tell!.
Thanks again
PG runs great tournaments, I can see that happening.
I am not in favor of showcases before a certain age which are too costly for many. JMO
Looking back I'm glad my son started tournament ball at 12U. It might have been a bit early but I remember one of the coaches saying that starting at 12U was getting in late. 
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jp24 posted:Not really. But it's just a matter of time, given the logic of today's launch of week-long 11U tournaments in Ft. Myers:
“We want to test their athletic ability and their skills against kids from around the world; they’ll be given ways to improve their deficiencies in certain testing skills."
"Many of the very best and most athletic kids at the younger age groups are leaving the game before high school in order to concentrate on other sports."
Unfortunately ... look at what Cal-Ripken 12U is doing with T-Ball. Back in 2011 and 2012 ... The Commonwealth had T-Ball state tourney's for 4-6yr olds.
They have 8-yr old State tournaments.
http://vababeruth.com/tourname.../2015/pdf/rookie.pdf
Look at the archives ... http://vababeruth.com/tournaments/archives.php
They've had 7-8yr old State tourney's going on since at least 2006 and most recently ... Reg'l tourneys for the the state winners.
I really wish one could tally up how much money they have spent on travel baseball since the age of 7-8yrs old for little Johnny up 'til he graduates high school.
Think about it ... that is approx 11 years worth of travel baseball of staying in hotels, eating out, flying (if necessary), putting gas in the car losing time off of work ... etc.
I just wonder if 2 years worth of college education could of been paid for?
I'm thinking back on the remote, pre-60/90 tourneys attended, and it included
It's what you do if you decide that your son should play at a high level of travel ball. It comes with the territory. Whatever your motivation, it's what you do.
So who would I want managing a tournament: the state ding-a-ling rep from USSSA, or PG? That's rhetorical.
If I were PG, I'd want in on this market. People are spending money, and "PG as business entity" would want to partake of that revenue stream. But more than that: you're building a database of participants, and the long term value of that DB is far more significant than youth tourney revenue.
So if you want the madness to stop, start with getting the LL World Series off ESPN.
I have no idea what anyone's motivation is for any thing they do. Not PG's nor USSSA's nor rec leagues. However I will say this if you've ever hosted an 8U or 6U state tournament for a rec league you'd want to do it as much as you could.
I was the director of our towns youth football league for years. We always hosted the 6U pre-season jamboree. New directors would ask me every year why we had always done that age group instead of the older ones. My response because I'll make more money off the gate in the first hour than you do off the gate an concessions all day. 12U brings 1-2 fans per player. 6U brings 6-7 fans per player.
Our rec league hosts an 8U all star warm up tournament for boys and girls. It's the only fund raising we have to do.
Again I don't have a clue what other people's motivations are but for the rec football and baseball league's I'm involved with its simple, money. An 11U will make twice as much money as as 14U and an 8U will make twice as much money as an 11U. The younger the age the more aunts, uncles, grandparents, and other family members come to watch.
GWS is creating a new event called "work up". No cost to the players.
Players choose their team and the age of their teammates, local college players are coaches [teachers], players rotate different positions each inning, parents - no suggestions on how to bat, to pitch, to run.
Games are stopped to instruct the players on correction of mental or physical errors.
Bats are wooden - any size and weight.
Bob
