I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint. Anyone heard this news?
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If your information goes back to June Lakepoint has filed Chapter 11/ reorganization. Lakepoint will still be there next year. If PG has a lease chances are they will be there unless there’s a legal reason for termination. As a corporate sponsor who invested a lot of money on the development its in PG’s best interest to stay.
No. This is new. I heard that PG didn't renew their lease. I went to PG website and can't find any events at Lakepoint after Oct 2018, nothing for 2019
I just don’t think they have posted the 2019 schedule yet.
atlnon posted:I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint. Anyone heard this news?
It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint. There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.
CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint. Anyone heard this news?
It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint. There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.
Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO
GaryMe posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint. Anyone heard this news?
It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint. There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.
Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO
There aren't that many 300+ team tourneys, but several 100+ team tourneys. Yes, Lakepoint is 8 fields (TURF FIELDS that you can play on rain or shine), with 50+ high schools within an hour of it and enough hotels to supper 1000 teams.
Personally, I like going to the PG games because the competition is better. While there is the occasional crazy team that can't field a ball, usually the teams coming in are pretty good, and MUCH better than the local teams that are formed to play in triple crown things.
GaryMe posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint. Anyone heard this news?
It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint. There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.
Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO
I know, how can you possibly be seen ... 
Kidding... I get your point. But it's not ALL bad.
“Perfect Game agreed, at an undisclosed price, to a 20-year lease at that baseball complex.”
https://www.news-press.com/sto...s-millions/85920274/
it is possible Chapter 11 affects the lease.
cabbagedad posted:GaryMe posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint. Anyone heard this news?
It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint. There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.
Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO
I know, how can you possibly be seen ...
You are being disingenuous, CabbageDad. That is a photo from Jupiter, not a lakepoint event. The tournament is played on a much smaller scale and held at the Roger Dean complex. Much easier to consolidate the “watchers” when the players are in one fish bowl. That is likely why you see so many in the photo. Btw, 88 teams at this week’s event, not nearly the size of a WWBA 17u, 16U, 15U...which annually draw 300+ teams.
I recall son throwing against EvoSheild on that field with that kind of crowd....there to see EvoSheild players and Soroka.
Yes, Gary, as I said, was kidding and largely agree with your point. Just used the image as comic relief and a general visual that scouts do attend the better, bigger tourneys. I wasn't after historical accuracy. Again, I understand the challenges when facilities are spread out all over, away from the primary complex.
BTW, didn't we play together on that prison team?
cabbagedad posted:Yes, Gary, as I said, was kidding and largely agree with your point. Just used the image as comic relief and a general visual that scouts do attend the better, bigger tourneys. I wasn't after historical accuracy. Again, I understand the challenges when facilities are spread out all over, away from the primary complex.
BTW, didn't we play together on that prison team?
Yeah, we DH'd for your sorry butt
Good to know that the rumors aren't true. I love LakePoint and looking forward to the next several years of watching my son play there.
atlnon posted:Good to know that the rumors aren't true. I love LakePoint and looking forward to the next several years of watching my son play there.
He will play few games there, and honestly...it's just a ballpark with a snack bar, etc...and you will pay parking and entrance fee for the honor of seeing him play. Have fun...just another way PG and LakePoint are helping families realize the dream of playing at the next level.
Won't see this picture this year. They banned the golf carts from behind the fences. They can ride from field to field but cannot drive them in between fields like they used to, at least that was the word at Cardinals section. They had big gates up to make sure golf carts did not get into the area behind home plate. It was kinda disappointing but did not affect anything. At one point there were 51 pro scouts and over 20 college scouts watching sons game yesterday.
Was never a fan of that place or the WWBA tournaments that we did there for 3 years..glad we are done with it..always felt that southern players were favored by recruiters over the northern boys..that kind of bias is still alive and well with southern school no matter what anyone says..the numbers prove it too..just look at the rosters.
all schools favor kids closer to them...it's everywhere, and most people know schools recruit regionally.
Not true..the south has an inherent bias..it's political to this day.
CatcherDadNY posted:Not true..the south has an inherent bias..it's political to this day.
Pay 25K for an out of stater, pay 7K for an in stater.
no brainer
Even if the costs were the same the southern schools will still massively recruit southern players...If you don't think there is still a north/south issue on the part of southern schools then I beg to differ...it's real to this day..especially in the state schools in all sports.
well, I guess you don't need to worry about those southerner's creeping up into your neck of the woods to steal away those prime spots in the snow...ever think that perhaps the southern kids are wanting to stay close to home?
CaCO3Girl posted:CatcherDadNY posted:Not true..the south has an inherent bias..it's political to this day.
Pay 25K for an out of stater, pay 7K for an in stater.
no brainer
IMO, with baseball it's kind of the opposite. Schools don't "pay" more for out-of-state kids. They aren't paying the OOS student $25K, they're giving him a credit of $25K towards an "inflated" OOS tuition. The school incurs the same classroom expenses for in-state and out-of-state students. With so many partial scholarships, you could make the case that they're losing revenue by recruiting in-state, since most baseball players will have to pay a significant portion of their OOS tuition and fees.
CatcherDadNY posted:Even if the costs were the same the southern schools will still massively recruit southern players...If you don't think there is still a north/south issue on the part of southern schools then I beg to differ...it's real to this day..especially in the state schools in all sports.
I think most schools tend to focus their recruiting on their local region (HA being the glaring exception). Look at CA, Midwest, Northeast rosters. Some exceptions, but most kids are in-state or from nearby states. I think it's mostly about getting eyes on the kids as many times as possible, and also about the fear of kids who are a long way from home getting homesick and/or leaving.
Well stated Mid Atlantic Dad..furthermore I had a recent conversation with a coach from a southern school who told me they are under political pressure to recruit southern players..he had no reason to lie to me and I thanked him for his honesty..we moved on.
CatcherDadNY posted:Well stated Mid Atlantic Dad..furthermore I had a recent conversation with a coach from a southern school who told me they are under political pressure to recruit southern players..he had no reason to lie to me and I thanked him for his honesty..we moved on.
I can understand that. In-state kids' parents are paying taxes that help support those schools.
and if you are wanting to draw any kind of a crowd to the games, who would they rather come see play? Local kids, ok course.
Rhode Island HS outfielder attends an non-PG Showcase/Tourney at UCF with a 17u team from Tampa; gets recruited by one of the Top SEC teams; goes to Ohmaha 2x; Not recruited by any Regional Teams.
Hint: NE players who want to be seen by southern schools MUST Join Good Southern Teams. They play in more events in their region.
That’s where the eyes are.
Bottom Line: players Must Be Seen.
I don’t want to hear about money and travel, because your already sipping the tea.
Hot beds, like Texas, Fla, Ga, Ala...imo (and experience), didn't need to go much beyond their borders to find talent. When son was recruited, it was primarily schools in our (large) backyard (Tx, Okla, Ark, Ala, Ga)...don't think it was politics...it was/is talent & budget concerns...Many of the HC & RC's have followed or seen these kids frequently over the years...and have relationships with HS coaches, AD's etc.
CatcherDadNY posted:Even if the costs were the same the southern schools will still massively recruit southern players...If you don't think there is still a north/south issue on the part of southern schools then I beg to differ...it's real to this day..especially in the state schools in all sports.
All things equal (talent) any program anywhere will recruit the local/regional kid. Aside from cost and fan appeal there’s less risk if the player getting homesick and leaving.
Vanderbilt recruits plenty of northeast players. The year they won the CWS their ace, #2, closer and cleanup hitter were all from Massachusetts.
High Academic Schools with a 70k tab are outliers for this discussion.
plus Corbin gets the best of the best of the best.
its critical that families know the real talent level of their son. It save a lot of time in the process.
Be careful when using Vanderbilt for purposes of illustrating a southern school that recruits northern ballplayers...they are national power that casts a wide net by design..some of you folks are in denial in regards to how deep southern bias is against the north in all manner of things even in this day and age..
CatcherDadNY posted:Be careful when using Vanderbilt for purposes of illustrating a southern school that recruits northern ballplayers...they are national power that casts a wide net by design..some of you folks are in denial in regards to how deep southern bias is against the north in all manner of things even in this day and age..
I live in GA....I don’t see it. Especially since most people that live here are from the north...or at least it seems that way 🤣
We’re talking about coaches with six figure incomes they protect by winning. I don’t believe they care where players come from as long as they are the most talented and fit in the budget athletically and academically.
Also, most of the southern states have academic assistance programs where a kid goes to college tuition free if he maintains a B average in high school. Talk about saving money recruiting in state kids! Talk about having athletic money to divide up without having to provide support for tuition!
It’s about recruiting locally (most colleges do for the most part), local players the local fans can relate to, players less likely to be so far from home they get homesick and finances. It’s not about the Civil War.
There are plenty of places in the South now if you go back three generations you find a northerner.
CatcherDadNY posted:Was never a fan of that place or the WWBA tournaments that we did there for 3 years..glad we are done with it..always felt that southern players were favored by recruiters over the northern boys..that kind of bias is still alive and well with southern school no matter what anyone says..the numbers prove it too..just look at the rosters.
Or there is no bias and southern players are better
How many kids get drafted from Georgia, FL, TX? How many get drafted from NJ, NY, PA? Most players taken in the MLB draft are from Southern Cal. Is there a bias in the MLB draft? The top kids from the north can compete with the top kids from the south, we've all seen it. But I can confidently say that there are more quality players in the southern states than the northern states. I'm sure the average hs game in Georgia is going to look a lot different than the average game in Delaware.
PABaseball posted:CatcherDadNY posted:Was never a fan of that place or the WWBA tournaments that we did there for 3 years..glad we are done with it..always felt that southern players were favored by recruiters over the northern boys..that kind of bias is still alive and well with southern school no matter what anyone says..the numbers prove it too..just look at the rosters.
Or there is no bias and southern players are better
How many kids get drafted from Georgia, FL, TX? How many get drafted from NJ, NY, PA? Most players taken in the MLB draft are from Southern Cal. Is there a bias in the MLB draft? The top kids from the north can compete with the top kids from the south, we've all seen it. But I can confidently say that there are more quality players in the southern states than the northern states. I'm sure the average hs game in Georgia is going to look a lot different than the average game in Delaware.
Props to Illinois.
Make sense to me, what with the War of Northern Agression and all..... lol
It's similar to the bias in hockey in favor of Canadians, Minnesotans, and Michiganders.
I think it's a little of both. No doubt the climate leads to generally better baseball down south. But with indoor facilities the gap has narrowed considerably yet the scouts still will favor the south. Killing more birds with one stone. I was not at all in awe of the southern teams at the WWBA. Our good teams from Wisconsin (which we were not one) acquitted themselves very well. Even us who sucked were competitive in all but one game.
As for the price difference I believe Caco mentioned that higher amount for out of state while yes is a credit it is held against the baseball budget. So yes 50% to a Northern player costs the budget more than 50% for a southern player.
Still a lot of scouts at the WWBA but to answer the north -south debate, I MO Coaches do not care they are paid to win! My son plays on a team from The one kid going to Purdue, 3 going to Xavier didn't seem to matter where they were from!
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The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world.
CatcherDadNY posted:The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world.
I don't buy that. Southern AD's and administrators, specifically the SEC, want to win. They don't care where a recruit comes from in any sport if they can help them win. Sports are really important in the South. Winning trumps everything. Arkansas had players from CA, CO, NJ, IL, IA, MO, KS, TX, OK. Mississippi State has players from Canada, IL, IN, WI, and a signee from NJ.
Ask a Bama alumni if they care where a football recruit comes from.
Really?...if you are going to cite Alabama then have a look at their current football roster...QED.
D Mac my take on what people are talking about is more the average player on a roster or even more so lower roster kids. And yes it makes sense. Why take an out of stater for your 28th roster spot?? Doesn't make sense. Both from a financial and home sick standpoint. I think we all agree if a kid is throwing 95 he can go wherever he wants and nobody will care if he is out of state.
And be careful when citing Arkansas and a NJ recruit...out of 41 rostered players he was the only one with a Northeast connection and he actually played a good part of his HS at IMG in Florida.
CatcherDadNY posted:Really?...if you are going to cite Alabama then have a look at their current football roster...QED.
How many Northern kids really want to go to Alabama? Yes I am serious. For us northerners the sun doesn't rise and set over the SEC. If my son (football player) were of that caliber (he is not) top three choices would be Wisconsin, Michigan and Notre Dame. Alabama not so much. There are a lot of reasons kids pick schools. And it's not always cause they are the 'top dog'. So while I do generally agree with you there is some bias I think we also have to say there are other factors as well.
2020dad posted:D Mac my take on what people are talking about is more the average player on a roster or even more so lower roster kids. And yes it makes sense. Why take an out of stater for your 28th roster spot?? Doesn't make sense. Both from a financial and home sick standpoint. I think we all agree if a kid is throwing 95 he can go wherever he wants and nobody will care if he is out of state.
In state kid, sure. Local Southern kid? No way. Do you think Arkansas alumni/adminstrators are going to put pressure on a coach to take a kid from Texas over a kid from New Jersey? That’s what I was replying to. Every baseball program is going to have a base of in state kids. The rest are going to be comprised of kids who can help the program win regardless of where they live. I’m referring to the Southern programs that recruit nationally.
Understood,..but that is a separate issue not germane to my point...you cited Alabama and Arkansas in your reply, however the facts don't support your assertion...to the contrary, the rosters show an overwhelming preponderance toward southern recruits and a demonstrable lack of northern recruits..therefore a reasonable argument can be made that supports what I was told by several southern state school coaches..they have to deal with political pressure when they recruit players..northern coaches are not constricted in that manner...look at the rosters in all sports...they are loaded with southern players at northern schools..a lot of the being transfers..it's the dirty little secret and if you have a player that is going through the process it is better that you understand this..I'm not saying it's wrong...but I am calling out those who are denying such.
In State recruiters see the in state stock earlier and more often.
johnny played for a SEC powerhouse from 2013-2017 that had 5-8 out of towners (generally pitchers; although he was OF from a NE Prep).
Top SEC/ACC schools will take the best of the best, but have so much talent in state that the rosters lean toward in state.
iMO, more looks over a longer period playing against better HS pitching .
If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.
CatcherDadNY posted:If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.
In baseball they do. 2018 MLB draft picks by conference:
- SEC: 99
- ACC: 75
- Pac 12: 49
- Big 12: 45
- B1G: 37
- Big East: 17
- Atlantic 10: 12
- America East: 7
- MAAC: 5
- Northeast Conf: 5
174 for SEC/ACC vs 167 for the others cited is nearly equal.
CatcherDadNY posted:174 for SEC/ACC vs 167 for the others cited is nearly equal.
LOL, you said that the SEC/ACC would have a number "far above that of northern schools" . . . didn't realize you were counting the PAC12 and Big 12 in the "northern schools."
PAC 12 is not southern...Big 12 has Texas...WV and Oklahoma depend on how one defines southern...and your point is?
CatcherDadNY posted:PAC 12 is not southern...Big 12 has Texas...WV and Oklahoma depend on how one defines southern...and your point is?
You said: "If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't"
My point is, in baseball, they do. I don't know about other sports.
This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
d-mac posted:CatcherDadNY posted:The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world.
I don't buy that. Southern AD's and administrators, specifically the SEC, want to win. They don't care where a recruit comes from in any sport if they can help them win. Sports are really important in the South. Winning trumps everything. Arkansas had players from CA, CO, NJ, IL, IA, MO, KS, TX, OK. Mississippi State has players from Canada, IL, IN, WI, and a signee from NJ.
Ask a Bama alumni if they care where a football recruit comes from.
You aren't comparing Alabama football to any college baseball program are you? Virtually every school in the country would cut the baseball program overnight to become Alabama football. They would drop it completely and honor all expenses for the next several years to clean the books and then go have a party in the Presidents house!!
Alabama football will do what it damn well pleases within very large open boundaries and Alabama baseball will follow orders inside much smaller ones.
2019Dad posted:CatcherDadNY posted:If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.
In baseball they do. 2018 MLB draft picks by conference:
- SEC: 99
- ACC: 75
- Pac 12: 49
- Big 12: 45
- B1G: 37
- Big East: 17
- Atlantic 10: 12
- America East: 7
- MAAC: 5
- Northeast Conf: 5
Hrumpf, Fuzzy Math.
CaCO3Girl posted:This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
But we DO discriminate like that! Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!
Again it's some of both. If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent... player A will become better cause he had better opportunities. Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled. So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception. Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds. Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players. If you don't believe in DNA's role... I can't help you. So I think everybody is a little bit right here.
2020DAD,
I thought God's Country was Texas? Now there is a bias for ya! 
FriarFred posted:2020DAD,
I thought God's Country was Texas? Now there is a bias for ya!
God’s country is North Carolina. It’s why he painted the sky Carolina blue.
Kids who love sports in general (not necessarily going to compete at the college level) love the atmosphere at the SEC games. My son had a kid from his HS go to Clemson this year just because he wanted to have that "big school" experience and it was much easier to get into than the big-time in-state programs in our state.
Alabama football also has this effect, along with Duke and NC basketball. Kids want a great college experience and when they see the student body sections on TV, that helps drive their decision making.
2020dad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
But we DO discriminate like that! Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!
Again it's some of both. If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent... player A will become better cause he had better opportunities. Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled. So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception. Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds. Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players. If you don't believe in DNA's role... I can't help you. So I think everybody is a little bit right here.
I think the other factor -- impossible to measure -- is "what portion of a region's best athletes play the sport?" I have heard from Minnesotans that their best athletes play hockey. I know in SoCal, quite a few of the best athletes play baseball. Not sure that's the case equally around the country. Climate might influence it, but climate isn't the only thing (e.g., basketball in Indiana).
CatcherDadNY posted:Understood,..but that is a separate issue not germane to my point...you cited Alabama and Arkansas in your reply, however the facts don't support your assertion...to the contrary, the rosters show an overwhelming preponderance toward southern recruits and a demonstrable lack of northern recruits..therefore a reasonable argument can be made that supports what I was told by several southern state school coaches..they have to deal with political pressure when they recruit players..northern coaches are not constricted in that manner...look at the rosters in all sports...they are loaded with southern players at northern schools..a lot of the being transfers..it's the dirty little secret and if you have a player that is going through the process it is better that you understand this..I'm not saying it's wrong...but I am calling out those who are denying such.
Southern players are better. More southern players being on the rosters of the best teams in the nation would be the facts to back that claim up. The ACC/SEC having the same number of players drafted as the next 8 conferences would be the facts.
The only job these coaches have are to win and if they're not winning to get their kids drafted. The president of UF doesn't tell the coach he can't go to Diamond Nation in NJ to recruit. He just doesn't need to. Why? Because for every kid in NJ/NY/CT/PA/DE over 90mph, there are 10 in Florida. That is why mid majors in the south are good at baseball. There is more talent than there are schools in the south.
2019 was recruited by a few southern schools. He had no interest. Didn't want to play/live 12 hours from home. Didn't want to take 3 days off school to visit each campus. Things like this factor into it as well.
2019Dad posted:2020dad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
But we DO discriminate like that! Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!
Again it's some of both. If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent... player A will become better cause he had better opportunities. Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled. So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception. Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds. Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players. If you don't believe in DNA's role... I can't help you. So I think everybody is a little bit right here.
I think the other factor -- impossible to measure -- is "what portion of a region's best athletes play the sport?" I have heard from Minnesotans that their best athletes play hockey. I know in SoCal, quite a few of the best athletes play baseball. Not sure that's the case equally around the country. Climate might influence it, but climate isn't the only thing (e.g., basketball in Indiana).
Really good point 2019!
I know Wisconsin is Gods country cause I saw it stated on a beer commercial when I was a kid! Hamm's I believe!!! They can't lie in commercials or it would be false advertising!!
correction. It was old style!
Is there new information or more people hearing the old information?
Starting to see the speculation in other baseball message boards, now with some more additional details and that some upcoming PG tournaments originally planned for LakePoint going to be held now in Birmingham AL.
Why would PG leave LP?
The only reason I can see to leave would be if the threat of loss of access or loss of control to guarantee the programs you are selling all summer are able to move forward.
I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
Don't know if this in anyway related....but I have a friend whose son (14ish) has played PG tournaments in Birmingham all fall. Before posting I went and looked up facilities and see that Bham (Hoover) has upped the ante on whats available. There are also several highschools within 10 miles of this facility. (PLUS traffic would be a whole lot less of a hassle!). This is where the SEC baseball tournament is played.
BASEBALL FIELDS
OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:
- Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
- Four (4) artificial turf fields
- One (1) natural grass field
Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.
For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.
CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
Are you saying that LakePoint has always planned on using bankruptcy to renegotiate their deals with PG (and other parties like vendors) from the very beginning?
atlnon posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
Are you saying that LakePoint has always planned on using bankruptcy to renegotiate their deals with PG (and other parties like vendors) from the very beginning?
https://www.mdjonline.com/news...56-43d38feea3b8.html
“This is very much like what Delta’s gone through and some other large corporations when they reorganize with new dollars,” Ehrhart said. “In layman’s terms, it’s a prearranged reorganization, and those are done through the bankruptcy courts. … There’s still 2 million visitors a year coming through there.”
Likewise, the sports complex’s main investor, Rimrock Capital, said in a statement that the process, which the statement refers to as “recapitalization,” was planned and will make the complex more financially stable in the long run.
I'm not saying anything about PG. I'm saying lakepoint is using a well known loophole, it was their plan B if things started to go sideways, and with projects like this they almost always go sideways.
CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
I seriously doubt if the original investors in LakePoint Land LLC ever envisioned getting involved with a private equity firm and losing their majority ownership.
MidAtlanticDad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
I seriously doubt if the original investors in LakePoint Land LLC ever envisioned getting involved with a private equity firm and losing their majority ownership.
Agree to disagree on that one.
This is a high end real life monopoly game.
Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds.
Shoveit4Ks posted:Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds
“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:
- Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
- Four (4) artificial turf fields
- One (1) natural grass field
Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.
For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”
It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well.
Shoveit4Ks posted:Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds.
Unless another similar competitor in the marketplace who is willing to operate on thinner margins decides its worth the cost to rent the place. Let’s face it, finally for once, that the only people who made money on Lakepoint since it’s inceptio was PG due to their sweetheart deal. If that is gone, then we may see others using the venue.
hshuler posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds
“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:
- Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
- Four (4) artificial turf fields
- One (1) natural grass field
Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.
For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”
It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well.
Sounds like an SEC guy here.... hmmmm.
Hope you’re doing well.
Won't miss the oppressive Georgia humidity with the inevitable afternoon violent thunderstorms featuring sideways lightning..and the 50 mile drives from the hotel in Atlanta traffic..one of the least interesting cities in the country with a poor urban design and massive sprawl.
CatcherDadNY, you seem like a pleasant guy.
He’s right, though. Maybe now we will see some more regional events in the summer.
Shoveit4Ks posted:hshuler posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds
“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:
- Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
- Four (4) artificial turf fields
- One (1) natural grass field
Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.
For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”
It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well.
Sounds like an SEC guy here.... hmmmm.
Hope you’re doing well.
LoL
All good here, my friend!
How are you guys?
FriarFred posted:2020DAD,
I thought God's Country was Texas? Now there is a bias for ya!
It IS! 
I'm 6th generation Native born! So there you have it! Proof enough for me!
atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
I believe PG has a very inexpensive twenty year lease after donating a lot of money to the construction.
GaryMe posted:He’s right, though. Maybe now we will see some more regional events in the summer.
There are two great events in the area that don’t involve PG and travel ... Select Fest in NJ and Atlantic 100 in PA. They’re top events requiring pro scout references.
Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening. If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules. 2 hour drives could be in store. Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta. I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving. They have a good thing. Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham. You talk about cost It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there. Don't buy it. Try another option. I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas. But someone would have to build the facilities.
And speaking of competition. If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal.
PitchingFan posted:Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening. If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules. 2 hour drives could be in store. Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta. I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving. They have a good thing. Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham. You talk about cost It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there. Don't buy it. Try another option. I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas. But someone would have to build the facilities.
And speaking of competition. If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal.
Pitchingfan, I agree that to have the WWBA in it's current state it would probably need to be held in a metropolitan area as you described, but with the advantages of field availability and lodging availability come the downside of traffic, increased expense for lodging due to being in a metro area, etc.
I don't think for a minute think that PG gives a modicum of thought as to the impact of where the event is played, airline hubs, etc as it relates to the teams. I really don't. I do however feel that PG would love to "grow the sport" (which means increase their revenue) and by not being tied to an 8-field complex in rural Georgia, they may be able to do that. Hell, LakePoint is 45 miles from Atlanta. Throw is ATL traffic and that is a freaking nightmare scenario, and that is only 8 of probably a hundred fields that they utilize...so leaving LakePoint itself is not a huge factor on the event. Leaving a metro area is more of an impact.
IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.
PitchingFan posted:Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening. If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules. 2 hour drives could be in store. Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta. I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving. They have a good thing. Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham. You talk about cost It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there. Don't buy it. Try another option. I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas. But someone would have to build the facilities.
And speaking of competition. If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal.
Birmingham does however has Dreamland BBQ and Niki's.
russinfortworth posted:PitchingFan posted:Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening. If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules. 2 hour drives could be in store. Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta. I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving. They have a good thing. Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham. You talk about cost It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there. Don't buy it. Try another option. I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas. But someone would have to build the facilities.
And speaking of competition. If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal.
These facilities might work, with championship beingplayed @ Dr Pepper Ballpark, home of FriscoRoughRiders, Texas Rangers AA affiliate...And several "newish" HS fields in that neck of the woods...
GaryMe posted:IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.
I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.
I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country.
PABaseball posted:GaryMe posted:IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.
I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.
I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country.
That's precisely the point. My kid went to the WWBA his rising sophomore year with another team because his regular team did not attend the event because most of the families on his regular team didn't want to spend the $$$ to go. So, you may eliminate that scenario by hosting major regional events. Also, a few coaches I know who used to go to Georgia decided to stop going because their players were not interested in attending the schools they were getting interest from at the Georgia tournaments. Obviously, the schools were out of state and with that comes the added expense of OOS tuition.
Remember, schools tend to recruit regionally. By and large, team are taking players to Georgia and the WWBA for college exposure, not professional. Only about 300-400 high school players a year get drafted on average, so the argument that players need to go to Georgia for professional baseball exposure doesn't wash. In fact, the number of players being drafted out of high school has been on the decline for the past 5 years or so.
The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. I would never assume that a scout would not be in at a major regional event. Major events for draft prospects like Jupiter is where the pro scouts will definitely flock. Regional events make sense because schools recruit regionally for the most part. I stand by that.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But the top players from NY, CT, NJ, PA, MA looking to play at ACC/SEC schools are still going to head south to play with/against the better talent where there will be more scouts (because the southern talent is better).
The next tier of northern players thinking they can cut it at an SEC school will then follow once they realize Arkansas and LSU aren't showing up to the NY regional event. Now you're back to square one.
PABaseball posted:GaryMe posted:IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.
I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.
I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country.
If we're talking about MLB scouts only, they're everywhere, at least at the lower levels. I can think of 4 or 5 just in the area I live in, and that's the ones I know about. My son got to know a very high-level scout well. Helped him chose a college. When the kid asked about exposer the guy told him, "if you're good it doesn't matter where you go, we'll find you".
PG is a successful business. But there is no doubt in my mind that its market penetration in California, and more generally in the western half of the country, is far, far lower than it is in the eastern half, and particularly the southeast. I think GaryMe's suggestion is a good one.
Maybe PG has determined that there is nothing it can do, that it can't provide enough of a differentiated product to California kids, since they have other exposure avenues perhaps not available in many parts of the country -- for example, significant scout ball in Sept & Oct., and even high school ball (I saw Keith Law say that Cole Winn made himself a lot of money, maybe an extra $1 million, by going to SoCal for his senior high school season). I don't know.
But I do know that the 17U WWBA had 392 teams and only 11 of them were from California, so less than 3%. In a sport where 20-25% of the U.S. talent seems to come from California (based on MLB draft), PG seems very under-penetrated in the West.
Edited to add: http://meadowparty.com/blog/20.../05/klawchat-6-5-18/
Allan: How much money did leaving Colorado make Cole Winn?
Keith Law: Maybe a million bucks? Getting away from the altitude, and also moving to somewhere scouts would see him more often.
WWBA Seattle Regional, WWBA Des Moines Regional, WWBA Lake Point Regional
Where do you think the SEC/ACC schools and the MLB scouts will be?
PABaseball posted:WWBA Seattle Regional, WWBA Des Moines Regional, WWBA Lake Point Regional
Where do you think the SEC/ACC schools and the MLB scouts will be?
MLB scouts? They'd be at all the regionals where there are potential MLB draft picks. So . . . WWBA Los Angeles Regional, WWBA Houston Regional . . . maybe they would get a few MLB scouts, lol.
With respect to the SEC and ACC going to the Lakepoint Regional, that's sort of the point -- most schools recruit regionally.
Edited to add: this might just be a regional thing. There are a huge number of kids for whom playing for the SEC/ACC teams is not the goal -- even if they are good enough to play there -- so getting in front of them is not the goal. Hence <3% of the teams are the WWBA are from California. GaryMe's proposal would give PG an avenue to reach (and of course make money from) many more kids. Even for the kids from the northeast, if they are not being completely delusional, a tiny percentage of them see themselves as future ACC/SEC players.