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quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:
I thought the golden rule was,,get a good pitch to hit?
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:
Um, I could make that for pretty much free. It's a mouthpiece with a clip on the end. No offense. Just sayin.....
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
Wow... a somewhat misinformed idea combined with things that don't match up to video.
Good hitters do not keep their "eyes on the ball" and their heads down throughout the swing. It simply doesn't happen. You can't see the ball for the last 12 or so feet, which is why late breaking pitches are so effective. Keeping the head down inhibits lower body action.
Ted Williams hated it. Ted Williams is also on the record as saying that he never saw the ball hit the bat. Nor did Mike Epstein. I haven't seen the ball hit the bat. No MLB hitter now or ever has seen it.
Go look at some pictures at contact. MLB hitters aren't looking down at the ball. They're looking out at the field.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
Wow... a somewhat misinformed idea combined with things that don't match up to video.
Good hitters do not keep their "eyes on the ball" and their heads down throughout the swing. It simply doesn't happen. You can't see the ball for the last 12 or so feet, which is why late breaking pitches are so effective. Keeping the head down inhibits lower body action.
Ted Williams hated it. Ted Williams is also on the record as saying that he never saw the ball hit the bat. Nor did Mike Epstein. I haven't seen the ball hit the bat. No MLB hitter now or ever has seen it.
Go look at some pictures at contact. MLB hitters aren't looking down at the ball. They're looking out at the field.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
Wow... a somewhat misinformed idea combined with things that don't match up to video.
Good hitters do not keep their "eyes on the ball" and their heads down throughout the swing. It simply doesn't happen. You can't see the ball for the last 12 or so feet, which is why late breaking pitches are so effective. Keeping the head down inhibits lower body action.
Ted Williams hated it. Ted Williams is also on the record as saying that he never saw the ball hit the bat. Nor did Mike Epstein. I haven't seen the ball hit the bat. No MLB hitter now or ever has seen it.
Go look at some pictures at contact. MLB hitters aren't looking down at the ball. They're looking out at the field.
Not arguing that any major league hitter has "seen the ball hit the bat," however for 20 years we have taught head starts on front shoulder, finishes on back shoulder, head actually stays still (hence the name) and head stays down through contact. I know from 20 yrs. experience that the players who have the least head movement are the most consistent. keeping the head down through contact has no effect on lower half rotation. Does not matter if you are teaching rotational hitting or linear hitting or a mixture the head must stay still. Check out mlb pics on site of the 3 hitters. I see head down, lower half working through ball etc. Anyway, thanks for the post, I enjoy talking hitting. Thanks again
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Like I stated earlier. Look at examples of mlb guys on website and tell me there head is not down. Tool is for youth league to high school hitters whom I have worked with for 20 years. Everyday, with kids it is the same thing, keep the head down. Looking at pic. of Jeter and others on website their head is down. Do you not think mlb hitters get head up occasionally? Matt Williams was notorious for it. Thanks again and i invite you to look at pictures on website under "examples" tag.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
We actually teach head starts front shoulder and actually stays "still" throughout the swing finishing on the back shoulder. Head is going to move slightly due to shift in weight transfer, but needs to remain as "still" as possible. If i could have all our hitters do 2 things consistently it would be: head still/hands inside ball. Obviously lot else comes into play, but if we do these 2 things consistently we can do some things wrong and still be a pretty good high school hitter.
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
We actually teach head starts front shoulder and actually stays "still" throughout the swing finishing on the back shoulder. Head is going to move slightly due to shift in weight transfer, but needs to remain as "still" as possible. If i could have all our hitters do 2 things consistently it would be: head still/hands inside ball. Obviously lot else comes into play, but if we do these 2 things consistently we can do some things wrong and still be a pretty good high school hitter.
how do you hit a baseball if your hands are outside the ball..with the knob? I hate these stupid catch phrases that do more damage than good.like knob to the ball and squish the bug.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
We actually teach head starts front shoulder and actually stays "still" throughout the swing finishing on the back shoulder. Head is going to move slightly due to shift in weight transfer, but needs to remain as "still" as possible. If i could have all our hitters do 2 things consistently it would be: head still/hands inside ball. Obviously lot else comes into play, but if we do these 2 things consistently we can do some things wrong and still be a pretty good high school hitter.
how do you hit a baseball if your hands are outside the ball..with the knob? I hate these stupid catch phrases that do more damage than good.like knob to the ball and squish the bug.
What is purpose of hands inside the ball? Swing path is the shortest. All a matter of physics. Shortest path from A to B. When i get hands away from body i gain length deep in hitting zone, hence hands staying inside the ball. Regardless of pitch location our path to the ball is always hands leading the swing gaining length out front at contact
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:
please show me a clip with hands OUTSIDE the ball..
quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:
please show me a clip with hands OUTSIDE the ball..
So how do you describe it?
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Like I stated earlier. Look at examples of mlb guys on website and tell me there head is not down. Tool is for youth league to high school hitters whom I have worked with for 20 years. Everyday, with kids it is the same thing, keep the head down. Looking at pic. of Jeter and others on website their head is down. Do you not think mlb hitters get head up occasionally? Matt Williams was notorious for it. Thanks again and i invite you to look at pictures on website under "examples" tag.
quote:All I've heard around the Red Sox for the last five years is to keep your head straight down all the time, and it's a terrible thing. Mr. Brett does it sometimes and gets himself all screwed up. You know why? There's no way you can complete your swing.
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by ironhorse:quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:
please show me a clip with hands OUTSIDE the ball..
So how do you describe it?
well if you hands inside the ball,,which happens on EVERY swing..just wondered what hands outside the ball looks like..you see parents and kids are bombarded with bull slogans like hands inside the ball..what does hands outside the ball look like just curious?
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
We actually teach head starts front shoulder and actually stays "still" throughout the swing finishing on the back shoulder. Head is going to move slightly due to shift in weight transfer, but needs to remain as "still" as possible. If i could have all our hitters do 2 things consistently it would be: head still/hands inside ball. Obviously lot else comes into play, but if we do these 2 things consistently we can do some things wrong and still be a pretty good high school hitter.
how do you hit a baseball if your hands are outside the ball..with the knob? I hate these stupid catch phrases that do more damage than good.like knob to the ball and squish the bug.
What is purpose of hands inside the ball? Swing path is the shortest. All a matter of physics. Shortest path from A to B. When i get hands away from body i gain length deep in hitting zone, hence hands staying inside the ball. Regardless of pitch location our path to the ball is always hands leading the swing gaining length out front at contact
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Like I stated earlier. Look at examples of mlb guys on website and tell me there head is not down. Tool is for youth league to high school hitters whom I have worked with for 20 years. Everyday, with kids it is the same thing, keep the head down. Looking at pic. of Jeter and others on website their head is down. Do you not think mlb hitters get head up occasionally? Matt Williams was notorious for it. Thanks again and i invite you to look at pictures on website under "examples" tag.
[/QUOTEquote:All I've heard around the Red Sox for the last five years is to keep your head straight down all the time, and it's a terrible thing. Mr. Brett does it sometimes and gets himself all screwed up. You know why? There's no way you can complete your swing.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Problem i have always ran into with hitters from youth to high school is the long swing. To be more specific the swing in which you gain length deep in the zone. Some call it casting, some call it getting around the ball. Still have to be short to the ball. And I agree that kids respond to that (hands inside the ball). We also talk about letting hands lead.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Like I stated earlier. Look at examples of mlb guys on website and tell me there head is not down. Tool is for youth league to high school hitters whom I have worked with for 20 years. Everyday, with kids it is the same thing, keep the head down. Looking at pic. of Jeter and others on website their head is down. Do you not think mlb hitters get head up occasionally? Matt Williams was notorious for it. Thanks again and i invite you to look at pictures on website under "examples" tag.
No. They do not keep their heads down. Jeter is an aberration.
Ted Williams says this:
[/QUOTEquote:All I've heard around the Red Sox for the last five years is to keep your head straight down all the time, and it's a terrible thing. Mr. Brett does it sometimes and gets himself all screwed up. You know why? There's no way you can complete your swing.
To say Jeter is an abberation is fine. But look at Mauer, Pujols. Got great pics of them with head down. Maybe somewhat misleading in saying "down." Like said before, head starts front shoulder, finishes back shoulder and actually stays still throughout swing. Matt Williams was a great of example of guy who pulled head a lot. All I am saying is head has to stay still. If we get head movement pretty hard to time and square up a pitch.
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Problem i have always ran into with hitters from youth to high school is the long swing. To be more specific the swing in which you gain length deep in the zone. Some call it casting, some call it getting around the ball. Still have to be short to the ball. And I agree that kids respond to that (hands inside the ball). We also talk about letting hands lead.
Please tell me your hitters aren't literally leading with the hands.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Problem i have always ran into with hitters from youth to high school is the long swing. To be more specific the swing in which you gain length deep in the zone. Some call it casting, some call it getting around the ball. Still have to be short to the ball. And I agree that kids respond to that (hands inside the ball). We also talk about letting hands lead.
quote:Originally posted by wogdoggy:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Problem i have always ran into with hitters from youth to high school is the long swing. To be more specific the swing in which you gain length deep in the zone. Some call it casting, some call it getting around the ball. Still have to be short to the ball. And I agree that kids respond to that (hands inside the ball). We also talk about letting hands lead.
short to the ball with no running barrel start? not for success..handcrock and a barrel with a running start may look like a long swing to the average guy yet it is not in actuality.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Low Finish, we agree on something. Head movement is minimal at best. Agreed. Never said hitters were sticking their face in the ball at contact however would be interesting to see that tried.
Ok, just out of curiosity are you a linear or rotational guy in teaching hitting? Another question for you as i have heard varying opinoins on this. What would you classify Pujols as? Purely rotational or combination of the two?
quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Low Finish, we agree on something. Head movement is minimal at best. Agreed. Never said hitters were sticking their face in the ball at contact however would be interesting to see that tried.
Ok, just out of curiosity are you a linear or rotational guy in teaching hitting? Another question for you as i have heard varying opinoins on this. What would you classify Pujols as? Purely rotational or combination of the two?
I'm neither. I believe in a swing powered by the breaking of resistance. Technically, it's rotation, but it doesn't feel like that. You try to avoid turning the hips for as long as you can. And finally, when you feel like your hands are working (even though they aren't). You try to keep everything pulling rearward. Especially the lower back and the hips. When the time comes to "GO!" you "break the handle" and hit the ball.
I guess (in theory), I'm more rotational. But I don't believe in teaching people to actively rotate. I believe in teaching people to build resistance, which will then cause the rotation.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Low Finish, we agree on something. Head movement is minimal at best. Agreed. Never said hitters were sticking their face in the ball at contact however would be interesting to see that tried.
Ok, just out of curiosity are you a linear or rotational guy in teaching hitting? Another question for you as i have heard varying opinoins on this. What would you classify Pujols as? Purely rotational or combination of the two?
I'm neither. I believe in a swing powered by the breaking of resistance. Technically, it's rotation, but it doesn't feel like that. You try to avoid turning the hips for as long as you can. And finally, when you feel like your hands are working (even though they aren't). You try to keep everything pulling rearward. Especially the lower back and the hips. When the time comes to "GO!" you "break the handle" and hit the ball.
I guess (in theory), I'm more rotational. But I don't believe in teaching people to actively rotate. I believe in teaching people to build resistance, which will then cause the rotation.
Must be a full moon as we have found little more common ground. I agree and think you pay little attention to either "school." Reason i bring Pujols up is i have heard people say he is purely rotational, but he works down and through the ball as well, not trying to create lift. As far as the resistance, a firm front side is imperative to hit against. I am somewhere in the middle as i like to teach high school hitters to work swing in a downward plane. Playing the numbers game with line drives and ground balls. As well, when you are consistent the long ball comes from consistency, not trying to lift the ball.
quote:Originally posted by headstillhitter:
Worst thing i hear is "swing level". This can't happen due to where hands start. We are trying to be short to ball and long through ball. Obviously the picture perfect swing is the one that creates backspin and carry. Extremely tough to get that on consistent basis with high school hitters. Like the downward plane to contact (which is more from linear school), but like high finish and lot of hip rotation.