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19 replies

Pet Peeve

redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
OK...I just worked with a kid who went to a "showcase" and was told he threw a 1.9. I have seen this kid all last year and many times this year and haven't had him less than a 2.2 in a game OR workout.

As a matter of fact, I have timed every catcher we have played against, including many 17U teams and I have had 1 legit 1.95 out of probably 100+ catchers in the last year.

Sorry...venting is over.

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Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
You know Redbird that this is common place. It happens all the time. The better a kid does the better his experience. They want kids to come back. They want kids to tell others how great their experience was. I have had players in HS come back from showcase events and tell me that they ran a 6.9 60 , threw a 2.0 pop and they have never broken 7.5 and cant break 2.3 to 2b. It happens all the time.

It is what it is and we all know what that is. There are so many of these "Showcase Events" now being put on by people just looking to make a buck. They have no credibility. If anyone were to get that information and check into its accuracy they immediately know those folks have no credibility. It only hurts the players and the eveny holders.
P plash3100+ posts
I do agree with you in that there are many "Showcase Events" out there but not all are just looking to make a buck. My son has attended several Perfect Game events and has nothing but good things to say about his experiances. I myself was sitting in close proxciminity to several scouts with stop watches and when PG plubished the "Times" several days/weeks later they were right in line with what the scouts had. You need to do your homework before choseing an event and If you stick with a proven winner such as PG you can't go wrong.
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
OK...I just worked with a kid who went to a "showcase" and was told he threw a 1.9. I have seen this kid all last year and many times this year and haven't had him less than a 2.2 in a game OR workout.

As a matter of fact, I have timed every catcher we have played against, including many 17U teams and I have had 1 legit 1.95 out of probably 100+ catchers in the last year.

Sorry...venting is over.


I assume the kid was being truthful with you?
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
Another aspect of this is also how pro scouts put down their numbers. I have spoken with scouts that tell me that if we really like you, as a complete package for instance, but you run a tad slow and that could cause a crosschecker to write you off and not come and see you, that a scout will enhance your numbers slightly (only slightly) to make you appear more attractive as a prospect. Maybe on a home to first time for example.
CC Catching Coach100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
OK...I just worked with a kid who went to a "showcase" and was told he threw a 1.9. I have seen this kid all last year and many times this year and haven't had him less than a 2.2 in a game OR workout.

As a matter of fact, I have timed every catcher we have played against, including many 17U teams and I have had 1 legit 1.95 out of probably 100+ catchers in the last year.

Sorry...venting is over.


Redbird,

I feel your pain. I have had my share of 15 yr olds that say they are under 2.0 come to my program.

They get a bit antsy when I time them. I have one of my instructors get in the box, deep in the box, and make it a point to swing and miss at the pitch they are being timed on.

We let them know what that time is so we all understand what "real" is.
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
Video is the best way to measure pop time, by far. Play it back in frame by frame. Digital video is 60 frames per second. Analog is 30. Count the frames. Accurate to a .0165 of a second for digital, .033 for analog.

I do it on my DVR all the time, measuring in-game major leaguers' pop times. The dirty little secret? They are all right around a 2.0.

Out of the dozens I have measured, the lowest I saw was 110 frames, which is 1.833 seconds. And that ball bounced, runner safe.

There is a lot of hype about pop times. I believe very little of it.
GunEmDown10GunEmDown101,000+ posts
I feel your pain RB, hear alot about kids throwing sub -2 pops, who have average arm speed, average feet, and poor mechanics.

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kremer: There is a lot of hype about pop times. I believe very little of it.
Well said... I understand the dynamics of using poptime to measure productivity, comparability and PROJECTability, but the truth is the only thing that matters is if the kid actually throws out runners in a game. A PLUS arm is a PLUS arm, after that's determined, there are way too many other factors that can determine the productivity of the game speed throw.

I'm alot more happy when a scout or coach tells me GED10 is a difference maker behind the plate, rather than he threw a 1.87 poptime at a showcase.

GED10DaD
Last edited by GunEmDown10
L LOW337100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
The kid really believes he throws a 1.9. It is sad.

And, yes, dirtbags...I know this happens all the time.


Things to consider:
*Who has the stop watch in their hand and what kind of baseball/scouting/recruiting experience do they have. Do they know what the heck they are doing?

*When they get pop times at showcases, often times there is not a hitter in the box to keep the catcher back. Consequently the catcher cheat.....i.e. better pop times....

It's all common sense......Get him a game at 1.9.....Pitcher still has to give you chance.....
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
All true but that was not the point of the original post. I have timed tons of HS catchers in games and at showcase events. Catchers cheat in games with batters in the box as well. They come out early they turn early they even set up improperly. You can teach a kid how to stay back receive the baseball properly and then throw. You can not teach arm strength.

The bottom line is you know it when you see it. You can cheat all you want to but if you dont have the arm your not going to throw a downhill seed to second base cheating or not. I look for arm strength the rest can be taught and is all the time.

Reported sub 2.0 pops are no different than reported 90mph fb from the hill. Rarely are they for real. But when you see it you dont need a stop watch or a radar gun to know you have seen it.
L LOW337100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dirtbags:
All true but that was not the point of the original post. I have timed tons of HS catchers in games and at showcase events. Catchers cheat in games with batters in the box as well. They come out early they turn early they even set up improperly. You can teach a kid how to stay back receive the baseball properly and then throw. You can not teach arm strength.

The bottom line is you know it when you see it. You can cheat all you want to but if you dont have the arm your not going to throw a downhill seed to second base cheating or not. I look for arm strength the rest can be taught and is all the time.

Reported sub 2.0 pops are no different than reported 90mph fb from the hill. Rarely are they for real. But when you see it you dont need a stop watch or a radar gun to know you have seen it.


I agree.....

by cheating I mean......if he cheats in a game he will get his hand/arm knocked off....which means he is standing up....reaching out for the ball.....they get their glove foot slightly in front to cheat on getting square to throw.....I know I know I know....they don't do it properly......I grade armstrength DAILY.....

I know what you are talking about. The kids are being lied to or the people running things do not know of what they speak/time/teach etc... THAT IS MY POINT....Baseball is my livelyhood, it supports my family.....I know all too well of what you are talking about......

All I was saying is that the people w/ the stopwatches in their hand OFTEN don't know what the heck they are doing either......
Last edited by LOW337

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